The Reading Room - The Cook and The Warehouseman by Helen Raven - Part 2

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

Title: THE COOK AND THE WAREHOUSEMAN
Author: Helen Raven
Link to story: http://www.kelper.co.uk/cook/index.html

Warnings: NC-17

The first ships of the alien fleet came into orbit around Earth on Wednesday, September the 7^th, 1983, just after 6pm, GMT.

 

So begins one of the classic AU stories of Pros fandom.

 

 The original discussion thread started here

Review of Helen Raven's source material HOSTAGE TO PEACE by Wally is here.

Please continue!

Comments

Re: Prince Ray's Guilt Complex

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

The fact that he'd married a glarus tore up those wedding vows to start with. He'd married someone who was no more than an animal, so where was the betrayal in trying to negate what was only his body's chemical reaction in the end? What Doyle had been taught was a "true bond" between them was what had been betrayed, from his pov - and how better to try and trick his emotions into getting over it than by trying to show him there were still real, isidrol people out there, and that he could still interact "normally" with them?

But this is my point exactly. All of what you say is true, but he does feel guilt. He encourages Bodie to go off and do the same thing. Why? Because he doesn't want to feel guilty about hurting Bodie...who has remained faithful to him despite all.

And when Bodie makes up the story about the fake lover, it's clearly a shock to Ray. He hasn't been expecting this. Yet why not? Bodie is glarus. He should be poking everything that moves. Because he's come to believe that Bodie does value their marriage and that Bodie is not an animal. He's started to trust Bodie again.

See, I think Raven was actually trying to nail down something important there. The fact that Ray feels guilt about what he's doing indicates he's awakening to the reality that what he's doing is wrong. That it is wrong to hurt Bodie who is remaing true to their vows. I think the guilt is the beginning of Ray's change in heart. Or mind. His eyes are opening and he's shaking off his ingrained bigotry and bias.

I like the fact that even the more biased members of his family see Bodie more clearly than he does during the period of their estrangement.

Re: Prince Ray's Guilt Complex

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

So what did you mean about Doyle's actions being a contradiction of some kind? That's what I was responding to - I don't think they are at all. Perhaps you were meaning some other kind of contradiction?

That said (and bearing in mind it's a while since I read it) are we told that Doyle is acting out of guilt in suggesting Bodie go and find someone else? Because I'm not convinced it's a simple as that...

Re: Prince Ray's Guilt Complex

[moth2fic.livejournal.com]

I don't think Ray was acting out of conscious guilt when he told Bodie to go and find someone else. I think it was at least partly anger and partly a way to say 'go and prove that you're an animal, that you're not addicted to me, that you don't need drugs, then I can be sure I did the right thing in leaving you - I, on the other hand, am merely drowning my sorrows in doomed relationships and one-night stands.' Religious fanaticism produces some very strange contradictions in people. I thought it was further exploration of how upbringing affects people's morals and reactions.

Re: Prince Ray's Guilt Complex

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Yes, totally what I thought too!

Re: Prince Ray's Guilt Complex

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

I don't think Ray was acting out of conscious guilt when he told Bodie to go and find someone else. I think it was at least partly anger and partly a way to say 'go and prove that you're an animal, that you're not addicted to me, that you don't need drugs, then I can be sure I did the right thing in leaving you - I, on the other hand, am merely drowning my sorrows in doomed relationships and one-night stands.'

Conscious guilt? No. Because if it was conscious he'd have already noticed that Bodie was more isidrol than he was. That revelation takes time. But what you've described above is simply another description of self-justification. Because if Bodie continues to stay faithful...the end result for Ray is...?

Or we can look at it from another angle. Bodie, glarus, behaves nobly and sticks to wedding vows. Ray, isidrol, breaks vows and boinks everything that moves. We're led to believe that Ray is smart and insightful, so in time...we get what we get which is Ray noticing that Bodie has behaved more like isidrol than Ray has. (Which Ray does admit to the neighbor.)

Re: Prince Ray's Guilt Complex

[moth2fic.livejournal.com]

In the view of Ray's gods isidrol is a physical state and glarus is too. So conscious behaviour is somehow irrelevant. This corresponds to ingrained racism and homophobia on Earth, or to the Chinese perception of foreigners as ghosts. It isn't anything to do with nobility. For the gods, Ray's vows are annulled if Bodie is glarus. Ray's real problem is in justifying/explaining his continuing addiction to himself. He needs to 'prove' that Bodie is glarus, that the addiction should not have happened and can be put aside. With that mindset, 'boinking everything that moves' is inevitable.

People often employ illogical arguments to justify their actions/beliefs. That rings absolutely true given Ray's upbringing/'brainwashing'/personality type. He is bound to have a struggle to change his point of view. The struggle is also bound to be long and Bodie, outside his own society, has no means of finding him once he is 'hidden', thus explaining Bodie's helplessness further.

Re: Prince Ray's Guilt Complex

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

So what did you mean about Doyle's actions being a contradiction of some kind? That's what I was responding to - I don't think they are at all. Perhaps you were meaning some other kind of contradiction?

Sorry, playing devil's advocate to get the discussion going. It was intended as a question rather than a statement of fact. Does anyone see that behavior as a contradiction? Did anyone have a theory as to what was going on there? Does a guilty recognition that he is hurting Bodie indicate that Ray is beginning to sluff off the indoctrination of his childhood?



That said (and bearing in mind it's a while since I read it) are we told that Doyle is acting out of guilt in suggesting Bodie go and find someone else? Because I'm not convinced it's a simple as that...

Really? How do you read that scene? Why do you think he encourages Bodie to go have sex with others? I admit not many other believable motivations occur to me.

Re: Prince Ray's Guilt Complex

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Lol - see moth2fic's comment above!

Sorry, playing devil's advocate to get the discussion going.
Ah - backfired with me then, I was also looking for discussion! Shall see if anyone else responds then...