Beta Central - One of Three by Rozel

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Sorry I'm late - I managed to come down with a cold yesterday, and in my busy-ness of sulking at it, everything just slipped my mind... I'm hoping that better late than never might apply here...

As far as I know, Rozel is interested in general comments and any kind of constructive criticism for the story. For those who've not played before, the idea is that Beta Central is a way of gathering all kinds of constructive editorial comments on a story, that might help make it better (obviously that's going to be subjective, and the final version may or may not take the suggestions into account - that's all up to the author). It's always useful to have another eye read a story for wee things we might have missed - a missing comma or mis-placed full-stop, sentences that read strangely, sentences that read brilliantly and we'd like more of, twists that might make something more realistic, or fantastical, or fascinating or homely... any comments at all are welcome! Our collective Beta Central has been beautifully and gently constructively critical in the past, so I'm sure it'll all go swimmingly this time too...

The story is beneath the cut - what do you think?!

ONE OF THREE
by Rozel

I stopped dead in my tracks, my hand on the door knob, as I caught sight of Ray Doyle, dripping wet and slightly steaming from a hot shower. His hair was almost straight and brushed his shoulders. The weight of the water and the steam from the changing room caused the curls to abandon their usual fight for survival on his head. He needs a haircut, I thought to myself.

He stood in the centre of the room surrounded by others from CI5; Murphy, tall and athletic, vigorously towelling his broad shoulders. Roberts was tying his shoes while Anson was already dressed and reaching for a foul smelling cigar. All were in various stages of undress, having cleaned up following an overnight stakeout. The conversation was loud and masculine, a sure sign the op had been dangerous and they were glad to be home without losing anyone.

I watched as Doyle dragged a towel across his head, rubbing the moisture away briskly. Soon the curls had returned, shiny and rebellious. I could almost smell the clean, freshly shampooed locks from where I was standing.

The towel, slung low across his hips, was in danger of falling open entirely. It wouldn’t have worried Doyle if it did. Clothed or naked he just accepted his body as it was. The effect it would have on me was an entirely different matter!

“Hey the old man said Betty was comin’ down here,” shouted Murph above the noise. “She’s bringing some photos for us to look at. See if we can identify those blokes on the roof.”

“You’d better get some clothes on then,” said Anson nodding towards Murphy. ” Don’t want to frighten the poor girl,”

A wet towel was lobbed across the room towards him. He grabbed it and returned the throw to Murphy.

“Nah, she fancies the golly, doesn’t she Doyle?” replied Murphy.

Doyle just shrugged his shoulders.

By now most of the agents were dressed, and the room was emptying. Anson pushed open the basement fire door at the far end of the room, ignoring the KEEP SHUT sign as usual.

“Time for a pint my boys,” he said grandly, walking out into the corridor. The pub was opposite the basement door - and such abuses of health and safety were regularly overlooked by the CI5 operatives. Murphy looked across at Doyle who was sitting quietly, running an electric shaver over his blue chin.

“Coming across for a pint later Ray?” he asked.

Doyle looked up.

“Yeah, I might. Need to finish off some paperwork first, and clean me gun. Bloody thing jammed again. I might let the armourer take a look. See you later.”

Doyle stood up and in one swift move took off his towel.

I moaned softly – he was jaw droppingly desirable.

He casually dried his torso, the chest hair springing back to life, and the silver chain he wore catching the light. The scars from the shooting were clearly visible, healed now, but their violent legacy a silvery, spidery scrawl on his skin.

His hands moved downwards, towelling his belly. He lifted a leg and placed his foot on the bench. I caught sight of his genitals, heavy and dark. Gently, he dried himself there before continuing down the raised leg.

I knew I shouldn’t look, but I was captured by the sight of him. The ache in my groin was palpable and I had to fight the desire to touch myself there, if only to ease the sweet pain. Oh Doyle, if only I could have you for a night. You’d never want anyone else but me. My thoughts were almost as uncontrollable as my body.

I looked back observing the private rituals of this strange man. He was applying some aftershave, an expensive brand from the smell wafting across. Citrus with a subtle tone of spice. Something I’d want to smell of after a night of unrestrained passion with him. Next came a quick spray of deodorant, and then he began to dress.

Only Doyle could make something as mundane as dressing look like an act of self love. He wriggled into a pair of jeans, tight fitting and moulding to his body. He smoothed his hands down his legs, easing out any wrinkles, before thrusting his feet into a pair of blue Kicker boots. He reached into a locker for a tee shirt, slowly pulling the garment over his head. Lastly, he donned a battered leather jacket. Now dressed, he leaned against the locker, one leg bent, hips pushed forward, while he checked his wallet, looking all the while like the good time waiting to be had by all. Especially me I thought.

I needed to get away. I couldn’t let him find me here, he’d soon guess I’d been looking and it was too risky a chance to take. Before I could move away, I heard footsteps coming down the stairs; quick, decisive footsteps.

“Ah there you are Bodie,” said Cowley. “I thought I’d drop these photos in. Save Betty a trip. See if anyone on the squad from last night recognises these faces. Let the boys have them will you?”

Comments

[golden-bastet.livejournal.com]

First cut of thoughts:

I think the imagery is astounding here. She's really captured the minutae of the interactions - what Bodie's thinking, how he's reacting, the way his next actions are realized. And especially the description of how Bodie sees Doyle - that is Doyle, even

The introduction of Cowley at the end is a bit abrupt, but it really depends on how she will play out the next few scenes.

I'm pretty intrigued to see where she takes things!

[anna060957.livejournal.com]

It's not in the dustbin, just on the back shelf!

[merentha13.livejournal.com]

Oh, this was a good read! I love the descriptions - especially this one:

Only Doyle could make something as mundane as dressing look like an act of self love. He wriggled into a pair of jeans, tight fitting and moulding to his body... looking all the while like the good time waiting to be had by all.

The discomfort of the observer is well written too - clearly loving watching Doyle and just as clearly uncertain about those feelings. I'm looking forward to see how those feelings are dealt with!

I'm embarrassed to say that on my first read through, I wasn't sure, at the end, if it was Bodie or Cowley who was watching Doyle. Maybe a slightly different approach to the last few lines. Since the story was all told from the observers viewpoint - instead of having Cowley speak outright, it could also be done through observation -

I heard footsteps coming down the stairs; quick, decisive footsteps. Cowley. With a handful of photographs. I thought Betty was supposed to be bringing those. I hope he didn't see me....

or something like that. Just a thought.

I enjoyed this fic. Looking forward to more!

[merentha13.livejournal.com]

I liked the uncertainty of who it was watching. I did think it might be Betty, but for some reason Cowley (ugh!) took over.

Doyle seems unaware of the effect his body has on people

I like Doyle portrayed this way. Some stories have him VERY aware of his impact and he comes off as very full of himself and not very likable. I like your characterization.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

As I don't usually write to canon
I'm fascinated by this - so you purposefully don't follow the canon characterisations? I'm never sure how that works - if someone's not writing the characters as portrayed, how do you feel it fits as "fan fiction" rather than original fiction that jjust uses the same names/places?

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Hi Rozel - thanks for volunteering for Beta Central! *g*

This sounds like the start of a longer story, and I like the sense of place that's developing, the feel of CI5 as a working agency, not just B/D and Cowley. And who can resist watching Doyle in the shower? Very nice... *g*

I did wonder about a few things:

- ”Don’t want to frighten the poor girl,” needs a full-stop, not a comma at the end.

- point of view - would Bodie think He stood in the centre of the room surrounded by others from CI5? He's one of those "others from CI5" - if we're at work, do we watch other people with that thought in our head? "There are other people from the company"? Or do we just think "There's Betty, and Kelly, and..." More specific could work too, because it sounds as if they've all been out on a specific job. So perhaps "He stood in the centre of the room surrounded by the agents who'd been with him on the Smith case" for instance?

- I'm not sure I've ever seen a person "steaming" after a shower, particularly if they've moved into a changing room away from the actual steamed-up shower room itself, and particularly if he's in the "centre" of that room. I'm also not sure that steam in the changing room would affect his hair if it was already heavily wet from the shower (which you describe nicely), so that bit sounds redundant to me. I do think there could/should be steam around, and it's a nice image, but maybe separate it slightly from Doyle, make it part of a description of the room, rather than of him? For example: "...as I caught sight of Ray Doyle, dripping wet from a hot shower. The changing room had filled with steam, and it puffed around him..." Or maybe, as your description of his wetness and the fact that he's only just starting to towel himself dry sounds as if he's just out of the shower, he should start off somewhere other than the centre of the room? "as I caught sight of Ray Doyle stepping away from one of the showers, dripping wet, steam still writhing around him. His hair... He strode to the centre of the room and picked up his towel..." ?

- would Betty really have been sent down to the men's changing rooms with photographs? I can't see anyone thinking that was an appropriate thing for a female secretary to do, especially back then! And then in the next paragraph, the agents are ignoring it and leaving anyway, rather than waiting for her. Even if Murphy was only talking to Anson, Anson ignores him and leaves, and then so does Murphy - not much respect for poor old Betty, or the operation they've just been on! I wondered if it might have been a joke, but it didn't sound joke-like, and of course Cowley comes down with the photos himself at the end, so... This part could do with tightening up a little I think - perhaps make it clear that Betty's only bringing the photos for Murphy and Anson to look at, or that Murphy was joking altogether (Bodie could have a little snigger at the end when Cowley really does bring down photographs!), or that Murphy and Anson go up to see her about the pictures before they go to the pub...

- “Time for a pint my boys,” he said grandly, walking out into the corridor. The pub was opposite the basement door - and such abuses of health and safety were regularly overlooked by the CI5 operatives.
I lost that lovely sense of place I had here! Is the pub part of the CI5 building, then? If so, I think they're more likely to refer to it as the "bar" - in fact it actually wouldn't be a public house that anyone could pop into in that case. If it's not part of CI5 though, then it confuses me that Anson goes out through a fire door into a corridor in order to get to the pub... and what does health and safety have to do with it? Was that about opening the fire door? If so, I think explaining the health and safety angle is slightly overkill- it's beautifully implied just by the fact that Anson went through the fire door in the first place! *g* Or am I missing something about health and safety, here?!

And being me I could question things forever (it's what I do... *g*) but I shall stop there for now! Hope this was the sort of thing that you were looking for, and hope it's helpful!

[firlefanzine.livejournal.com]

I enjoyed reading this!
And I don't complain a steaming Doyle. - he's a very hard man, he showers extremely hot! ;-)
There are a lot of remarkable pictures you've given us!!!
Just let me pick one. Oh yes: "The towel, slung low across his hips, was in danger of falling open entirely..."
:-)

But in the end I expected someone else watching Doyle, not Bodie. Maybe an early Betty? Or another (new) agent?
I agree to what BSL said: "- point of view - would Bodie think He stood in the centre of the room surrounded by others from CI5? He's one of those "others from CI5..."
There is not one hint that it is Bodie who's watching(though of course we all expect it must be him....).
And Cowley is much too tame, I think.

But as I said above, it was a nice read. And for me it's a complete little story that doesn't need more background or some kind of solution(first person POVs for long stories are difficult anyway).

Not that I would complain if this IS 'just' a part of a long story(see title)!

Thank you both!

[potztausend.livejournal.com]

*waits for the towel falling open* *is a bit impatient*

[firlefanzine.livejournal.com]

That was hours ago... - and quite nice! :-P

[shooting2kill.livejournal.com]

I really liked this and reading it I felt as caught in the moment as Bodie seems to be (mesmerised, in fact!) Lots of really nice writing and observations such as Doyle’s hair, almost a force (of nature) in itself and I felt Cowley’s appearance at the end was fine and performed the function (for me) of waking me (and Bodie) out of my sweet daydreaming.

In a vain attempt to be objective and grown up I just thought I’d lob this in:

The conversation was loud and masculine

….reluctantly, actually, because on reading it for a second time I think I’ve changed my mind, but when I first read it I wondered if Bodie, being a bloke and in the company of men a lot of the time, would actually think like that? It sounded perhaps a bit more like the kind of thought a woman might have. But then I read it again and I thought it was fine, so what do I know….?

I wasn't sure, at the end, if it was Bodie or Cowley who was watching Doyle.

I think that I thought it was Bodie from the beginning but once or twice the Bodie whose thoughts I was reading varied slightly, so at times I could hear the Bodie of *my* imagination i.e. the Bodie I see and hear in the episodes e.g.

Only Doyle could make something as mundane as dressing look like an act of self love

But at other times I thought I could hear a slightly less contemporary Bodie, perhaps one who is a bit more formal and refined in his choice of words? I’m not sure, it’s just a tiny feeling I have which I’ll probably revise when I read it again e.g.

I knew I shouldn’t look, but I was captured by the sight of him. The ache in my groin was palpable and I had to fight the desire to touch myself there, if only to ease the sweet pain. Oh Doyle, if only I could have you for a night. You’d never want anyone else but me. My thoughts were almost as uncontrollable as my body.

I can't quite hear Bodie thinking like this (if you see what I mean) but as I say, I’m not sure and it didn’t spoil my reading of this one little bit and I've really enjoyed the whole scene depicted here.

Thanks for doing this, it's given me much food for thought..

[shooting2kill.livejournal.com]

very Mills and Boon (UK Romantic fiction publishers) type of language

That's interesting because that's exactly the type of writing I was thinking of, or perhaps a nineteenth century version of Bodie.

[heliophile-oxon.livejournal.com]

I like this scene-setting scene very much indeed. Lots of lovely, acutely observed touches - like the way Doyle dresses, or misusing the fire door because it's opposite the pub - but there were a few huh-what-was-that moments which hopefully it will be handy to point out *g*

In no particular order:
I agree that Betty would never be sent down to the changing-room. No way, not then. The agents would be under orders to report to somewhere else when dressed, to see the photos. I also think that if she had been, then it 's odd and unlikely that Cowley would bother to save her a trip - unless just possibly if he had some other much more important reason for coming down. So I was left wondering slightly what Betty was doing in the story at this point in the first place ... maybe give her more reason to be there?
The layout: how can we have a fire door that gives onto a corridor with a pub opposite? There would have to be another fire door leading from the corridor to outside, and then the pub could be opposite that I suppose. Unless, as mentioned above, this is not actually a pub at all but a bar within the CI5 building (slightly odd in itself, but it's canon and makes sense from a security point of view I suppose!)
If Bodie comes in and stops with his hand on the doorknob, how come no-one notices him at all in all this time? Is he concealed by a row of lockers, or something? Maybe he can be located in a way that makes him less likely to be spotted.
The "masculine" conversation - agree with the above, this doesn't sound like a Bodie thought to me. I was also wondering slightly at the way he notices Murphy, something about that phrase doesn't ring true to me.
Oh, and maybe that quiet moan (or perhaps just a breath) could "escape" him? I'm sure he'd be trying to be quiet, and is normally quite good at it! *bg*

The scars from the shooting were clearly visible, healed now, but their violent legacy a silvery, spidery scrawl on his skin.

- love this, it's really excellent! And lots of the detailed description, too.

Altogether a lot of great stuff, and a very vivid scene. Hope you find some of the comments useful, and looking forward to seeing what becomes of this!

[heliophile-oxon.livejournal.com]

I should perhaps add that when I read "fire door" my first thought is always an exterior fire door rather than an internal one within a building. So I wonder why there's a fire door in a changing room. What do others think of that?

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Yes, I think that was part of my confusion about the layout too - the idea of a fire door leading into another corridor, though it's perhaps not beyond the realms of possibility if it's a big, or an old building...

For some reason, and not I think because of anything in the description, I'm imagining these showers/changing rooms being in the basement - perhaps partly because there's no light mentioned, perhaps partly because I think they often are! Maybe also because the room/bar/pub where they have Alf's celebration in SotM looks like it might be in a basement (is that the one you were thinking of as a canon bar, btw? I've always half-thought it was too (partly it looks a bit like one of the student union bars I worked in at Uni!), but is there anything in the ep that makes us think that? The lads know the bartender, and seem to know the other guy well enough to joke with him, but it could be the current local, perhaps..? Okay, now I'm getting all tangled in my brackets and sentences and points - some beta I'm being! *g*) Anyway... so yes, the firedoor threw me because of that too (though the corridor would have made sense then - but the pub just across the way less so... (Okay, I've just realised that it does say "basement" a couple of times in the story too!

Maybe “Time for a pint my boys,” he said grandly, walking out into the alley and gesturing across the small, brick yard. The pub was just opposite the basement door..."?

Mind you, there's the security angle too perhaps, if this is CI5 hq - not that there does always seem to be huge security there in the eps, but presumably that fire door could only be opened so easily from the inside... *g*

[firlefanzine.livejournal.com]

Here internal fire doors are not only meant to be emergency exits, they are there to create as many secure areas as possible. To prevent a fire to spread too quickly.
We have a lot in our company and they are supposed to be closed all the time. Ahem... ;-)

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Yes, they're used that way here too - they automatically close if there's a fire alarm, to stop it spreading. I'm not sure how common that type of fire door was here in the late 1970s/early 1980s though, and whether, if it was that sophisticated, it would also be the kind that set off an alarm if it was opened when it shouldn't be... *g*

The other thing is that the fire door seems to open into a corridor, which then has a pub on the opposite side - but a "pub" is a public house, which means that it's open to the public - and they're rarely in the same building as other companies, let alone something like CI5... It might be a bar just for CI5, but if the entrance is opposite on a corridor, then why is it opposite a fire door, rather than the normal entrance to the changing rooms?

[snailbones.livejournal.com]

I really like it, it's so full of lovely detail and descriptions, and I particularly like the atmosphere of blokes coming down from the tensions of the job, and the behind the scenes look at CI5. It felt incredibly realistic, with the sort of casual chatting and joking around you'd expect in that sort of situation, the noise, the damp air, and good grief! The way you describe Doyle getting dressed is hotter than most people getting undressed *g*

My only tiny niggle was that Bodie seemed to be invisible - he could obviously see them all clearly, so why couldn't they see him? (I was heading towards ghostly-Bodie until Cowley arrived *g*). It's only a little thing, but for me it distracted ever-so-slightly from the narrative. I loved the POV of Bodie though, and I think the inner dialogue is nicely carried off.

I'm left crossing my fingers that this is part of something larger and longer, because it's so good and I'd love to see more. Thank you for being brave enough to let us see it.

[snailbones.livejournal.com]

Hi! I really do like it tremendously, and yay! for it being part of something longer - it felt as though it might be!

It's incredibly difficult to have somebody just out of sight when you're in their POV - you're in danger of getting bogged down in a long-winded explanation that would be out of context, aren't you?

I think this is the most fabulous and hot description of Doyle putting his clothes on that I've ever read *g* I think you may have created a dressing kink in me... another to add to my collection *g*

[moonlightmead.livejournal.com]

First, can I say how much I love the images and description in this? Are you the same Rozel who posted Six Days to AO3 recently, too? I loved that, but I couldn't find a direct feedback link for comments, just the general 'comments' box, which I find quite cumbersome. So, ahem, sorry about that. Oh - and Slippery When Wet? *thud*.

So yes, onto this one. And first, there is some stuff you absolutely must not touch at all. Things like this: "...caused the curls to abandon their usual fight for survival on his head." ... "The towel, slung low across his hips, was in danger of falling open entirely. It wouldn’t have worried Doyle if it did." ... "The scars from the shooting were clearly visible, healed now, but their violent legacy a silvery, spidery scrawl on his skin." (I believe other people may have mentioned this one already...) And the entire paragraph about "Only Doyle could make..."! Leave it all alone because it's lovely.

Some minor grammar things. I don't think you need the exclamation mark in "The effect it would have on me was an entirely different matter" - Bodie's intonation is coming across clearly enough without need of it.

I'd add a few more commas in when directly addressing people, so, "doesn't she, Doyle?", "Coming across for a pint later, Ray?". And probably another one into Especially me, I thought.

I also have difficulty with Betty going to the men's changing room. I am sure she can hold her own should it be necessary, but I don't see that it would be necessary here.

Bodie's soft moaning. This word - moaning - is one of those words which I see all the time in erotica, both slash and het, very often qualified as a soft moan, and I just don't get it myself. Do real people honestly moan - whether "mmmm" or "aaaah" - just on seeing things? Sounds like "mmmm", maybe. Perhaps I'm the odd one out here. But if you can find another verb - or even just another adverb - I think it might sound more real to me.

"the golly": I wonder about this, and particularly about Murphy using it. Bodie uses it of Doyle, but does anyone else, in the series?

The fire door: yes, this confused me totally. The image I eventually came up with was that the changing room is in the basement, and that there must be an 'area', or whatever the word is, one of those yards between a street and a building, which is right down at basement level and which has steps *up* to the street. However, then the pub would have to be opposite the building rather than the basement door itself. Also, if this is CI5's HQ, I wonder at the security implications of fire doors onto the street which have no security or cameras. So yes, I think that needs rethinking. I wouldn't worry too much about fitting CI5's layout to what we see on the screen - they change location a few times, and fiction changes it even more often.

So I think I am not really saying much that anyone else has not already said, now that I have a chance to post. But thank you for volunteering for this and sharing it, and I hope it was not too painful. If this is one of three, does that mean there are two other pieces to go with it? *looks hopeful*.

[murphybabe]

Halloo! First of all, thank you for posting such a wonderful piece of writing. I loved it, and my favourite bits are your descriptions. I'll keep this short, and say that I agreed with a lot of the points above (only I agree about Doyle steaming after the shower - if it's a hot shower and a cold room, fine!), and I see what you're saying about Betty...

My one critical comment (constructive, I hope) is that although the point of view worked very well for me, I found myself wondering if it was a woman looking at Doyle. Now I know this is unlikely, given how the female agents were treated in the episodes, and you have filled the room with successful, hyped-up agents after an operation. I wasn't entirely sure who it was (and I couldn't quite work out where they were standing if they weren't being noticed) but I had a real doubt about their gender.

Then I went back and tried to work out why it seemed to be a feminine point of view, and I am now fascinated by your response to shooting2kill that you had deliberately used a flowery M&B-type language. I went back and had a look and have picked out a couple or three phrases that seem feminine in their language: caught sight of; moaned softly; captured by the sight of him; if only to ease the sweet pain; I couldn't let him find me here. They are very evocative phrases, but - for me - they are not Bodie.

Having said this, I can't wait to read the rest of it. Oh, and my absolutely favourite bit? 'Only Doyle could make something as mundane as dressing look like an act of self love.' Thank you!

[murphybabe]

I wouldn't describe it as 'overblown' language! I can see what you mean about Bodie being more refined - the suits etc. so I understand what you're getting at there. So... could it have been Betty? Yes, it could - although I tend to agree with a comment you made earlier about Betty being tough.

Thanks for explaining - please, please write more!

[anna060957.livejournal.com]

Taking my life in my hands, I’m going to make two comments:

Is there a case that familiarity (of a beta) breeds comfort and content (rather than contempt) and as a result reduces and even distorts the ability to be totally objective? I feel I’ve let Rozel down by not picking up on Betty’s potential visit to the changing rooms (although isn’t that every secretary’s dream?) and totally missed the location of the pub as being a problem? In my defence, I was probably still reeling from her imagery!

As far as the geography and security of the CI5HQ building is concerned, we have little canon to inform us. My mental image is that from the episode (whose name escapes me) where Ramos gains access (by means of a very simple distraction technique) to not only CI5 HQ, but also Cowley’s office (and shower!). The entrance to the building does rather suggest a back alley type of access although certainly a quiet one.

We should also remember that although the IRA was a very real threat in the 1970s and 1980s, as a terrorist group it was not particularly sophisticated. Similarly, “our” security systems were equally unsophisticated. In fact when you make the comparison with what we have to deal with today security is almost non-existent. Wakeman was able to plant a bomb in Matheson and King’s car as well as infiltrating Bodie’s flat with apparent ease. Even DIAG illustrates how easy it was to gain access to Doyle’s flat because he didn’t set a second lock (so that the first lock must have been very straightforward) and the subsequent delay in alerting anyone to the breach only activated when the French window was opened. Apart from the photo ID (which is black and white!) I can’t recall any other form of security – not even a signing-in book!

(Sorry going to be late with my Reading Room review - tomorrow, tomorrow!)

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

I don't think a beta's responsible for what an author decides on her own, and as I think we've said before (either you-and-me "we" or "we" generally on the Beta Central posts), it's rare that two betas make the same comments, and not everyone reads a story the same way either. What means one thing to Fan A means implies something completely different to Fan B, and Fan C is probably looking at them both cross-eyed, wondering what they're on... *g* So to start with, I don't think you need any defence at all!

I totally agree about security back then - I wouldn't at all expect cameras etc (I think someone did suggest those up above). But I might expect a locked firedoor... *g* It wasn't that angle that made me blink though, and when I was untangling the "corridor" that the firedoor apparently opened into, it was a back alley like the one we see Ramos (and various other villains) checking out that I imagined. The confusion I had was in seeing how the corridor fitted in if the pub was opposite - I needed another door to the outside world, which is where a pub would be!

We do have some canon for the geography and security of CI5hq though - enough to guess that it probably moves around from time to time, as the lads flats seem to! *g* We do see Fred on security downstairs in Longshot, for instance, and in another ep we see an agent/security of some kind answering the back door to give someone directions (not a real someone!). We see the outside of the building in Involvement, when Doyle is left standing alone at the end... And then in later series we see what looks like a very modern building with lots of windows, so... There's enough scope for us to pretty much make up our own HQ geography, I reckon... *g*

As for Betty - Rozel seems to be saying that she made the watcher ambiguous on purpose, and actually wanted people to think that it was Betty who *was* watching Doyle. I'm afraid I didn't get that impression at all, when I was reading it - I couldn't really tell who was watching, so I really just assumed it was Bodie.

I'm rather fascinated by Rozel's comment up above that she doesn't write to canon anyway, and thus "plays around with" the character of Doyle... Obviously that works for some people, but I've got to admit that I'm always looking for the canon characters - it's them I want more of - so I'll be inclined to see anything off-canon as questionable... and so we come full-circle to one fan's meat being another fan's poison... as they sort of say... *g*

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

I guess it depends what we each mean by "characterisation"... you're talking above about what they look like, and do, and their relationships with other characters, and you make the point that Doyle's eye colour is often questioned. To me his eye colour doesn't really matter that much, I can accept it as green or blue in a story because to me that's not part of his character, and it's his character I'm interested in. For instance he's got quite a temper in the eps, and so I'd find it difficult to accept him as meek and compliant in a story - for me Bodie's far more likely to just go along with things than Doyle is - and yet there's lots of fic that characterises Doyle that way. To me that's out of character. What I'm looking for in an AU story, too, isn't that they do the same job/dress the same way as they do in the eps, it's that their characters are the same, and I think that's the mark of a really good writer, being able to capture their characters rather than just what they look like... For instance I once reviewed an AU story by Jane (of Australia *g*) called "Silence of Knives", where her Bodie and Doyle looked perfectly fine in her descriptions, but were simply two macho, heroic blokes in outer space - I didn't see anything of "my" Bodie and Doyle there, nothing of their individual characters that had been brought over from the series... I do see my canon B/D in Lizzie's AU historical stories though - I can see that if reincarnation were true, and we retained our characters, that's what B/D would have been like in that time and place...

Of course canon's confusing too, cos we all see it differently... what I might interpret from the scene in Klansmen where Doyle seems to have tear in his eye/dampness on his cheek when Bodie's been stabbed as Doyle being human, and angry/worried enough to tear-up slightly, someone else might interpret as him being so sad and scared for Bodie that he's been crying with sobs and tears everywhere, and only just wiped them away... (but I'll hold to my interpretation, cos we don't see him racked with sobs and tears in any other ep either... *g*)

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

The thing about Betty isn't so much whether she'd be tough enough to go down to the male changing rooms too give the blokes some photographs - it's more that it wouldn't have been considered okay by the social mores of the day, for the blokes. They'd've been just as likely to be offended by her entering their changing rooms as she was by finding them naked... even today it wouldn't be considered okay in fact! And I can't see Cowley, a man of an even older generation, sending her down to do it either...

I'm always surprised when I see people talking about Betty being scary, efficient and not-a-hair-out-of-place, I've always seen her as rather ditzy...