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ci5hqRead Story Here
Thanks for giving me the opportunity to discuss the writing process and ideas behind one of my stories. I’ve included a couple of additional notes at the end because I do tend to waffle on and get side tracked. They are ‘optional extras’ if anyone is really keen to read more.
In a note I wrote when I first posted the story on Lj, I said: “I'm excited about this one, because I think it's the best thing I've written since coming back to writing after 'The Long Break’”
Although I’d been writing slash since about 1996/7 I hadn’t written anything for about 5 years and only returned late in 2008 after being lured back to writing by The Man From Uncle. By early 2009 I had written four short Pros fic, none of which I considered anything special. I looked on them more as a way to familiarise myself with and get the feel of the characters. Two contained fairly ‘stock’ plots and scenarios and two were humorous quasi-crossovers. When I came to write Greatest Song, I hoped it was fairly original ground. [Note 1]
The idea for this story was conceived while I was writing A Taste For It, although Greatest Song was written and posted long before ATFI was finished. [Note 2] I wondered, given Bodie’s undercover role and the time in which ATFI was set, what the possible long term consequences would be. AIDS was a very real danger in the late 70s and early 80s and it would be years before any possible exposure was discovered. The idea become so intriguing that I sat down and wrote Greatest Song in a very short space of time. Although the idea for Greatest Song came from ATFI, it wasn’t written as a sequel or postscript to ATFI. The stories are in no way connected and don’t share the same events.
I was aware during writing that the subject matter, the lads not being together, Bodie having AIDS and Doyle being married with kids, would not appeal to all readers, BUT it was the chance to explore this scenario that compelled me to write. I knew the lack of a ‘happily ever after’ would also disappoint some readers. Personally, I enjoy reading and writing angst because to me, it’s a very real part of life. I think it’s often easier to write a happy ending than to really move readers with angst, to make them genuinely feel for the characters and the situation they are in. I love to read stories that make me feel and this is one of the things I tried to achieve with Greatest Song.
I saw the Ray Doyle of the future looking for a home and family. In ‘Takeaway’ it doesn’t take him long to set up house with the female agent and look the picture of domesticity, and that was just as part of an undercover assignment! Bodie, on the other hand looks positively uncomfortable in the one glimpse we have of him ‘domesticated’ with his school teacher girlfriend in ‘The Gun’. So Ray would search out home and family and when he found it, I could see him and Bodie drifting apart.
The character of Samantha was sort of an Ann Holly type with a splash of Sam Carter from SG1 thrown in. I wanted a strong character because I don’t think Doyle would go for a door mat. It would have been easy to make her a ‘villain’ but then there would have been no moral dilemma for Doyle and Bodie to face. Again, if there were no children involved, Doyle’s path forward for a happy ending with Bodie would have been far simpler. Doyle has a lot at stake and so his reaction to Bodie’s news is coloured by all he has to lose. He’s thinking of himself and his family, not Bodie, which, to me, was the most realistic reaction.
Bodie, on the other hand, finally accepts that he may have been partially to blame for the ill feeling that exists between himself and Samantha. Although Bodie feels a bit sorry for himself, he is also trying to make peace with the world around him and seeing his own faults is the beginning of the process. We see this again towards the end of the story where he contemplates visiting Murphy to see how he is and show him there are no hard feelings.
At this point, I should probably point out that I didn’t write Greatest Song with the idea the lads would get back together. It was meant to be a bitter-sweet parting, a final goodbye, leaving Bodie with his regrets but knowing he did the best thing by leaving Doyle to get on with the life he had chosen. The story was about goodbyes. To me, a story doesn’t stop at the end of the page and for every story I’ve written I’ve always had ideas on what happened afterwards. I like to leave things open, not only for myself but also for the reader to ponder. The idea for the sequel, When All Is Said And Done, came about because of readers’ responses. It was readers who saw the ending, where Bodie catches a glimpse of the old Ray driving past in his aging Escort and thinks ‘miracles really could happen’ as suggesting that there was hope of them getting back together. This surprised me somewhat because my intent was to show that Bodie had not given up hope for himself and that AIDS did not have to be a death sentence. [Note 3]
Whilst writing the story I realised how little I actually knew about AIDS, HIV and it's progress. I always do research for my stories so I set about reading as much as I could and then translating it into a simple explanation as Bodie tells Ray what’s happened [there is more of this in the sequel story]
I’ve never been good at choosing titles for my stories and have resorted to song titles in the past. A song can often give an extra dimension to a story if the reader knows the lyrics, in much the same way that theme music can add to a film. This song was a bit obscure, but it had been a favourite of mine since I first heard it back in the early 70s and it matched so well with the sentiments of the story. It was easy to bring in a couple of small details from the song to make it even more fitting. You can find it on You Tube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLdQR6koC-8 It’s by the New Seekers.
When I posted Greatest Song to my Lj, I included a separate post with a warning that the story dealt with AIDS. The initial warning was that the story was NOT a death fic although some people might view it that way. I know there has been a lot of discussion recently about what should or should not be included in warnings. Being fairly new to Lj at the time I was a bit confused as to what exactly the warning rules were so thought I’d better cover all bases. Personally, I loath warnings. [Note 4]
In closing, I’ll say thanks for reading, both the story and my ramblings. There is a sequel, When All Is Said And Done, although I prefer the first story as it was originally intended as a stand alone.
Questions? Comments? Criticisms? I’m open to all and have tough skin :-)
NOTES:
Note 1: My greatest fear in writing in Pros was that I would simply be repeating what many others had done before because Pros fandom has been around for so long. It’s one of the first great fandoms, right up there with the original Star Trek! I was really worried that there wouldn’t be much left to explore or any fresh ground to be found. I come from fairly small fandoms, Sharpe, Hornblower [when it began] and Raffles where there was still plenty of room for character exploration and story development. I was very worried that I would simply be re-covering ideas that had been ‘done to death’.
Note 2: A Taste For It was the very first Pros story I started in December 2008 but it took a long time to complete. It was inspired by a MFU story, The Variations on a Theme Affair, I had written in Sept 2008 year where Illya volunteers to go undercover in place of Napoleon and so begins their friendship. At the time I wondered what other great partnerships might also fit the scenario and Bodie and Doyle sprang to mind.
Note 3: I have a roughly written addition to Greatest Song’s sequel When All Is Said And Done, languishing on my lap top. THIS one will never see the light of day on Lj as it was written for my own reasons because the ending of WAISAD just didn’t sit right with the original concept I had for the ending of Greatest Song – it’s a ‘fix-it’ if you like, for my own story. Now how weird if that?
Note 4: How often do you buy a novel and find warnings on the cover? Never. Rape, murder, graphic violence - I’ve been surprised more than once when a novel I bought turned out to contain some pretty hairy stuff that I wasn’t expecting! And I payed money for it! On the other hand, I have read and enjoyed many novels that I might not have otherwise bought or even considered had there been a warning on the cover. I think the same should be allowed for fan fic. Writers offer their stories FREE to readers. We shouldn’t have to put warnings on our work. If you don’t like it, then stop reading.
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Date: 2009-07-31 01:58 am (UTC)Thank you. I do become a bit caught up with my characters but for me, that's the only way to really understand their motivations and project their actions. I need to have a firm understanding of them as a whole, their past and present. This is not only true of the main characters such as Bodie and Doyle. I often create 'histories' for want of a better word, for peripheral characters such as Murphy [I like Murphy] and any OCs I use. When I finish writing a story, it's just a natural progression to continue the story in my head and work out a future for the characters, major and often minor. I can't help it... As I said in another comment, I used to write long series of stories each following on from the previous and I guess I still do this subconsciously. I have no idea if other writers do this? Anyone want to comment?
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Date: 2009-07-31 04:39 am (UTC)All the time. I didn't know writers didn't? It's like having a dinner party; you might come in the middle, end, or beginning; conversations and arguments that start there will continue on long after your guests have left. But I'm a filmmaker as well as a writer; I fall firmly in the realm of the active voyeur so I'm conscious of it. I always want to know what happens next though.
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Date: 2009-07-31 07:18 am (UTC)And Squeeful said: "All the time. I didn't know writers didn't? "
I must say that I'm content when a story is finished, and you can start a new one with new possibilities and without any limitations of the past. It may happen that I reread one of my stories after months and get the feeling that I could write on - but I experienced that that is more of a burden than pleasure...
And as a reader I don't 'trust' series... You never know what comes to the writers mind...
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Date: 2009-07-31 07:55 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-31 08:02 am (UTC)Is it because you feel that the stories are incomplete in some way? In my series, each story was always complete in itself so could be read as a stand alone, BUT a reader would understand them better if they started at the beginning.
OR, is it because you get too attached to the characters and wonder if the writter will do something nasty to them? It IS hard to write good feelings and nothing else for tens of thousands of words. There needs to be conflict for the characters to resolve.
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Date: 2009-07-31 08:11 am (UTC)I have an almost-bet going with
*wanders off* I will write happy. I will write happy. I will write happy.
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Date: 2009-07-31 08:24 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-31 08:33 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-31 10:35 am (UTC)I absolutely agree! It is not possible “to write good feelings and nothing else for tens of thousands of words. There needs to be conflict for the characters to resolve.”
All those problems may be solved somehow.
But I don’t read death fics!
And itf there are no warnings to a story, I read the end first – that’s not possible with series. ;-)
Yes! With “I don’t trust the author” I meant that he could do something nasty (kill) to them when I’m too attached to the characters! You never know in which mood an author may come... ;-)
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Date: 2009-07-31 08:18 am (UTC)If that's the case then it doesn't always come across in the writing. Certain writers (in mainstream and fandom fiction) seem to produce stuff according to a pre-determined formula or template and show very little feeling or involvement with their characters.
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Date: 2009-07-31 08:26 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-31 09:26 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-31 09:51 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-31 11:07 am (UTC)That's it, there should be. I've read books which have been praised and got onto best sellers lists etc. but the characters were never fully developed, never came alive for me, weren't rounded and so I couldn't care less what happened to them, so yes, I suppose that is bad writing even if the rest of it is OK.
You can not *like* people, but some empathy and understanding are needed
Yup, and I think you might not like people while at the same time they can still interest you which is very different.
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Date: 2009-07-31 11:56 am (UTC)Both of these comments can be illustrated if we look at a character in a novel by Maria McCann, 'As Meat Loves Salt' [great story which I highly recommend] Her protagonist, Jacob, is a man with dark urges and he does some really horrid things. He hears voices and is probably psychopathic or psychotic. He's not a typical or likeable hero by any means. BUT, he is so well written that most readers come to empathise or sympathise with him. McCann has stated in interviews that this surprises her because she never wrote him to be a sympathetic character. It was her in depth portrayal of him that made him so multi dimensional and 'real' that readers 'understood' him despite his faults.
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Date: 2009-07-31 08:33 am (UTC)I always put myself into each characters place [walk in their shoes?] to make sure I have them reacting to the situation correctly. I do this all the time, even with the stock 'baddies' because if I didn't, I don't think they'd be realistic.
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Date: 2009-07-31 09:04 am (UTC)But I think the thing which really intrigued me was your concern with what happens to the characters *after* the story has finished. To me that demonstrates real dedication!
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Date: 2009-07-31 11:46 am (UTC)By definition, Pros writers have a big emotional investment in Bodie and Doyle, and possibly Cowley, Murphy and other CI5 personnel. In mainstream fiction, it is possible for a writer not to empathise with the characters themselves, to write them as flat, lacking in a history or character development, and the reader will pick up on this and judge the book accordingly. But how could that be the case in fanfic?
Are there Pros fic writers who write for other reasons than to enjoy spending time (in the imagination) with the lads? (Could be, I s'pose... But they are likely to be talented writers anyway, looking for new subject matter.)
On the other hand, the lads might seem 'flat' in a fic not for any want of trying by the author, or lack of devotion, but just lack of literary skill (this is a plea for understanding from yours truly, BTW).
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Date: 2009-07-31 12:16 pm (UTC)I've read fanfic not just in Pros either, where the writer showed very little understanding of the characters. It was almost as if they sacrificed the characters for the sake of the plot. I don't know if they just didn't understand the characters to start with or if they deliberately chose to have the act out of character but there plenty of examples out there. The story about 'The Game' is probably a prime example if that doesn't sound too unkind. No offense meant.
Good question. There might be other reasons but I can't think of any. Does anyone have any ideas, suggestions?
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Date: 2009-07-31 01:24 pm (UTC)I agree. Or sacrificed them for the obligatory sex scene which I know at least one writer is serially guilty of!
I don't know if they just didn't understand the characters to start with or if they deliberately chose to have the act out of character but there plenty of examples out there.
I've heard of people (not necessarily in Pros, but in fandom) who have written about certain pairings without ever having seen them in canon which I would think would be pretty limiting!
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Date: 2009-07-31 01:17 pm (UTC)I think my original comment was about the fact that minerva could be so involved in her characters that she would think (and worry) about them *after* the story was finished and I wouldn't have thought many writers do that. But then the discussion did go on to consider how far writers generally get involved with their characters. And yes, you would think almost by definition that fandom writers have an emotional investment in their characters, but not all writers do seem to possess that quality and I'm thinking of people like Jane, who, in the later part of her pros career, just seemed to churn stuff out like a machine, inserting sex scenes at regular intervals and apparently with very little thought for the emotional development of her characters.
Are there Pros fic writers who write for other reasons than to enjoy spending time (in the imagination) with the lads? (Could be, I s'pose... But they are likely to be talented writers anyway, looking for new subject matter.)
I’m sure there are. Some people might write for the contact and feedback from readers; some people write who have never even seen the characters in canon, presumably and partly because they just like to write and for the intellectual challenge regardless of how much they care for the characters. Some write for the discipline of writing, such as that offered by a drabble challenge which gives you far less scope for character development. But as I said earlier, I was really more struck by minerva’s care for her characters in their post-story lives than anything else.
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Date: 2009-07-31 02:10 pm (UTC)In this discussion about characters and fiction writing, shouldn't we distinguish fanfic?
I've been giving this more thought....at first I thought yes, you're right, but thinking again I wonder if there is such a difference between the two genres? A non-fandom fiction writer might not be actively in love with their characters but they are still something they've created and I would imagine - as with a difficult child who the mother fails to bond with and maybe even dislikes(!) - you would still care for them, still try and nurture them and be concerned with their progress etc. So I think to write characters effectively and authentically, whether they're negative or postive in the eyes of the writer, the writer has to be involved with them as much as possible if they're going to do them (and the story) justice.
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Date: 2009-07-31 10:25 pm (UTC)You've hit the nail on the head! I was thinking about the whole 'writing characters' things overnight. I realised that when I wrote original characters [I wrote a long series of stories about OCs set in the Hornblower universe] that I actually became MORE involved with them than when I wrote fandom characters. The reason, of course, is that you create them from scratch. As you said, they become like your children. I had an emotional investment in them as they grew and developed and the stories evolved. That's not to say they had happy lives. They were midshipmen in the Royal Navy during the war, so there were deaths and heartaches, but for the stories to have realism there needed to be real danger. I 'loved' the characters, even those who I killed off. Although I'm no longer writing those stories, I still daydream about the characters and make up stories about their future lives in my head to pass the time.
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Date: 2009-08-01 11:10 am (UTC)Oh, I'm so glad you could understand my ramblings! Thank you. And yes, someone you've 'created from scratch' is all-important.
The McCann novel sounds interesting. I'm not widely read at all but I suppose literature has quite a few well known characters who, if you deployed certain criteria, wouldn't be that lovable but because they're so well drawn, so real, human and larger than life, we can like them or grow to like them despite ourselves, because we can see elements of ourselves in them, warts/flaws, or maybe even because we're not like them and so can get all smug about it and can congratulate ourselves on that. I'm thinking of certain Dickensian characters e.g. Fagin and Uriah Heep who are quite fascinating and much more interesting than some of the 'good' characters. I'm just wondering if Pros fiction has thrown up any interesting 'baddies' or someone who is well written but difficult to like......hmmm, Geraldine Mather, possibly? Bodie's wife in Kate Maclean's Redemption?