The Reading Room - The Cook and The Warehouseman by Helen Raven

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

Title: THE COOK AND THE WAREHOUSEMAN
Author: Helen Raven
Link to story: http://www.kelper.co.uk/cook/index.html

Warnings: NC-17

The first ships of the alien fleet came into orbit around Earth on Wednesday, September the 7^th, 1983, just after 6pm, GMT.

 

So begins one of the classic AU stories of Pros fandom.

 

 

When I first discovered the Professionals fandom I loathed AU stories. I couldn’t -- could not -- see the point. Everyone from justacat

 to Kate MacLean told me this would probably change; that it was, in fact, a natural step in the progression of learning to truly appreciate fan fiction. I didn’t really believe them.

 

A story about Bodie marrying an alien prince who looked like Doyle? Uh…thanks, but no thanks!

 

Two years later The Cook and the Warehouseman has become one of my all-time favourite stories.

 

The plot is pretty much explained as above. Aliens have landed. But they’re a civilized lot, almost indistinguishable from humans, and they’re interested in setting up some complicated intergalactic trading agreements. Bodie, a CI5 agent, is part of the UK security presence. All of Earth’s countries are jockeying for the right to host the alien trading base. Competition is fierce.  

 

The story begins when Bodie is summoned from a banquet for a secret meeting with Cowley onboard the alien space craft. Cowley breaks it to Bodie that the alien king wants Bodie to marry one of his sons, and if Bodie refuses, there’s a good chance the aliens will blow up the planet.

 

I love Bodie in this section of the story because he is so Bodie. His responses are great -- believable and in character (at least how I see his character). Anyway, what he can he do? This is a man prepared to throw his life away in the normal course of his job, so obviously he’s not going to sacrifice the planet out of squeamishness.

 

Bodie agrees to marry Prince Raymond -- now don’t roll your eyes because Helen Raven does a simply brilliant job with the alien rituals and cultural clash.  I can’t praise her enough at this juncture of the story because she really captures Bodie’s confusion and the “alienness” of his soon-to-be in laws. The Hailin are just enough like earthlings for the differences to be unsettling. But it’s believable, grounded in a recognizable, anthropological reality.

 

“So what’s the plan?”

 

“I’ll pick you up for the shuttle at eight in the morning. The king will explain to you what’s involved in their betrothal ceremony… He said it’s very simple… And then you’ll meet the son and -”

 

“Get officially engaged. And finally get to see him without his mask.”

Cowley was shaking his head, looking baffled. Bodie almost smiled, wondering if his boss had worn the same expression with the king. “No.” A sigh. “The opposite. You’ll have to wear a mask as well. You’re neither allowed to see the other’s face until… until you get to their planet.”

 

“Let me guess. It’s a religious thing.”

 

“Yes. The way he put it, each engaged couple represents their two gods of marriage. The mask that the son wears is one of them, but the other is back on the planet. Each engaged couple has to play these gods all the time they’re engaged, either if they’re not members of the royal family and don’t normally wear a mask at all. He said they see it as giving up part of your private life for the good of the community.”

 

Bodie shrugged, long beyond surprise. “Anything else? Is the whole fleet invited to this ceremony?”

 

“No. Just the four of us. The other thing is that the two of you have to be chaperoned. You’re not allowed to be alone together before…”

 

“Suits me. Wonder if I can string this engagement out for twenty or thirty years.”

 

That got a smile from Cowley, suppressed and then indulged. “That’s exactly the remark I’d expect from you, 3.7.”

 

 

So Bodie meets his betrothed -- he hasn’t seen him (or at least doesn’t realize he’s seen him) without his mask yet. The masks are very important within the story -- both plot wise and thematically -- and probably define the Hailin more than anything else.

 

And I need to pause here to compliment Raven on the creation of Prince Raymond. If you’ve read Hostage to Peace by Wally (Raven’s inspiration for The Cook and the Warehouseman) you known what a beautiful, skilful job she did in creating this alien male -- utterly at the prey of his hormones but still astonishingly masculine. He’s not really much like our Doyle, but he’s a fascinating and appealing creature in his own right, and he looks like Doyle and sounds like Doyle (well, the accent is right), and so…for me it works. Really, really well.

 

The king rose and went to the door, operated the communications panel set into the bulkhead, and spoke in that rapid language again.

 

A wait of about a minute, then a sound at the door. Udom Kol’s (that’s Doyle) gloves were a deep green. He spoke quietly to his father, though with his face turned to Bodie, and then he walked towards the humans. Bodie found himself on his feet, unable to sit passively while his innards were knotting and twisting, and his skin so heated. This was definitely happening, and now, and to him.

 

“Mister Bodie. Orsara. I - I still can’t quite believe that this is really going to happen. Everyone said, ‘Think what you’re asking of him. Be prepared for -’” I think it’ll be months before I really believe it.” The depth of emotion was evident, and Bodie blinked and shivered, and felt panic closing in on him. Think about… Think about… Don’t think about anything, just count the drops of water on the forehead of that mask.

 

“I know exactly what you mean.” Very quiet—and obviously taken for hushed sincerity. The prince took a step closer to him, as if pushed. They were now less than two feet apart, and Bodie could hear the man’s breathing.

 

Some words from the king in that language, though slow this time, and then the prince was pulling the glove from his right hand. Oh, God. This was how the betrothal ceremony began. Now. Already. Oh, God. Bodie felt numb, and his hands seemed to be moving of their own volition as he mirrored the other’s actions.

 

Right gloves removed, they stepped forward in unison and joined their bared hands. The prince’s hand was warm and strong, and Bodie could feel the grip of each long finger. Such a simple contact, but Bodie’s nerves were overloading, playing tricks on him and routing every signal through his groin. They did that sometimes; it meant nothing.

 

The touch lasted no more than five seconds. Now what next? Oh, yes. As his right hand was taking hold of the green glove, his left was handing over the brown. Some fumbling to tug the new glove on… and he was betrothed to Ray Bakkel, or Udom Kol, or whatever the hell he was supposed to call him. He felt thoroughly ill.

 

There was silence for some seconds as they still stood close, and then the prince moved away, and the king spoke. “I don’t know about you, but historic occasions make me thirsty. Ray, you’ll have to leave so Mister Bodie can drink his coffee.”

 

Just…weird. And we have that sense of weirdness from Bodie, but we also have his courage and discipline. He’s going through with this lunacy even if these freakazoids end up eating him for lunch or throwing him into a volcano. He leaves with the aliens on their spaceship and prepares to meet his fate.

 

His fate, however, seems relatively benign. The Hailin show no sign of violence or any indication that this is the intergalactic version of a shotgun wedding. Every attempt is made to please him and make him feel at home, and slowly but surely he starts to fall for that crazy little thing called Doyle.

 

Again, praise for Raven for making the long section of Bodie and Doyle getting to know each other, and falling in love interesting. Fascinating, in fact.

 

The shipboard romance goes well, so well that the king gives permission for Bodie and Doyle to marry before they reach the planet. Great stuff all through here. And more kudos for Raven once she gets Bodie to the planet. The world and civilization she creates…absolutely as complex and well-thought out as anything in mainstream fiction.
 

There is, however, one gaping hole of logic in all this world-building and plot-structuring, and unfortunately the entire story rests on it. But I’ll leave that for the discussion to follow.

 

So all is well. Newlyweds Doyle and Bodie are in love and settling in beautifully. Ray works as a cop and Bodie gets a job as skilled labour (he’s still learning the language, etc.) and it just feels…so real. I can’t say enough positive things about the first three quarters of this fic.

 

However, due to bad weather one afternoon, Doyle has to stay on the mainland. He and Bodie talk on their video conferencing system and they begin to have phone sex. This is where it all gets tricky. Doyle realizes during the course -- or, er, intercourse -- that Bodie does not need Doyle or his body scent in order to become aroused and have sex. For Bodie, sex is a brain thing. (Well, okay, not entirely -- he is a healthy human male after all.) For Doyle and the Hailin, marital bonding actually involves physiological change -- in fact, it creates a serious physical dependency. From the Hailin perspective, only animals don’t have this ability to physically bond once they’ve found their life partner.

Can you say "uh oh?"

 

The number was a direct line to the prince’s room. He answered within seconds, and Bodie’s cock leapt at the sight of him: still dressed, and lying on the bed with the viewer to hand, exactly as Bodie had been imagining.

 

“Oh, Ray. Oh God, I’ve missed you. You look wonderful.”

 

The prince came up onto his knees, staring intently at the screen, expression almost pained. “And you look… You’ve just had a bath, haven’t you? You’ve got that pink look that always makes me want to fuck you where you stand.”

 

“I know. Take your shirt off, Ray. Take all your clothes off. Let me see you.”

 

The prince undressed slowly, keeping his eyes on the screen all the while. But he was not aroused, despite the obvious depth of his emotions. Bodie was taken aback—and rather dismayed—but the explanation soon came to him.

 

“And I thought you were the one with the iron will.” He was smiling indulgently. “Couldn’t stop at thinking about me, eh? How many times have you come? Looking at you, I’d guess three.”

 

An answering smile. “You must think I’m always prepared for the worst, too. Maybe I should after this. Have you sleep in your leathers and then carry them down to the car every morning. What did you think I had with me?”

 

“Oh, I dunno. Sure I can’t persuade you to a fourth?” And he lowered his right foot from the table at the same time as he opened his robe.

 

“Oh, Bodie!” Ardent delight—and a cock as limp as ever. Bodie gave a shrug of his eyebrows, decided very quickly that if it didn’t matter to Ray, then it didn’t matter to him, and took himself in a firm, two-handed grip that soon had him gasping.

 

“Ray. Oh, Ray. God, how I’ve been waiting for this. Oh, I love you. God, how I love you.”

 

“What are you using? Show me. Please.” Fervent, and too loud to be a true whisper.

 

“My hands. Just my hands. And the sight of you. Oh, Ray.”

“You know what I mean. Show me. And I thought you needed it fresh. Is it my shirt from yesterday? The cream one? Please. Let me see how you’re using it.”

 

Bodie stilled his hands, a real effort of will. “It’ll be in the laundry basket. I can get it if you want. D’you want me to come into it? Is that it?” Ray and his thing about clothes. Sometimes Bodie could see the appeal, and sometimes he couldn’t.

 

“Oh. So what are you using?” He was frowning now, and there was a different purpose in his gaze.

Bodie lifted his hands away from his groin, a gesture part shrug, part protestation of innocence.

 

“Is it on your hands? Can you rub it on your hands? Is that how it works for you?” Urgent, demanding—and puzzled to the point of worry.

 

“Ray. What’s wrong? I’ll use whatever you want me to use, but I don’t understand what you’re talking about.” Bodie was doing his best to be patient, despite the increasing ache in his groin. It was alright for Ray—he’d already drained himself dry. How did these people come to choose the worst possible time to show their lack of imagination?

 

“You -” The prince turned his head jerkily to the right, then back. His left hand drifted up. He looked thoroughly lost, and Bodie sat up, suddenly alert and feeling nothing for his husband but concern. “I -” Now to the left with the head, and the hand reaching out.

 

“Ray, what -” The screen went blank, or, rather, changed to the pattern of grays that went with an open line. They’d been cut off. “Oh, fuck it!” It must be the storm. Listen to it out there. A transmitter blown down, or something. He called the number again, and it seemed to be ringing normally, but there was no answer. A fault on the line. Must be. Bugger. Why did machines do this to you? How did they know?

 

He’d give it a few minutes and try again. Lower the storm blinds in the meantime. His erection had died, after an undignified struggle, and his groin was extremely unhappy with him. He promised to make up for it tomorrow, when Ray would be back no matter what the weather had in store.

 

No reply. Oh, damn. Damn and double-damn.

 

Poor Bodie. It’s going to get a lot worse.

 

A brilliant, if flawed, story -- I look forward to hearing your thoughts!

 

 

Comments

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

Not sure why the whole thing went into italics! Sorry about that.

[sc-fossil.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the review. It's definitely one of those classic stories everybody should try. For me, however, it didn't work at all. But still, it was definitely worth a try. I happen to love a good AU so I'm always willing to try and see what happens.

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the review. It's definitely one of those classic stories everybody should try. For me, however, it didn't work at all. But still, it was definitely worth a try. I happen to love a good AU so I'm always willing to try and see what happens.

It didn't work for me either the first couple of times. I mean, not at all.

So can you go into a little about what didn't work for you? I have major problems with the last third of it. Did you get that far?

[heliophile-oxon.livejournal.com]

Hmmm .... I'm going to have to come out and confess that I'm one of the people for whom this didn't work, overall. And this even though I was absolutely gripped by the whole first part of the story - I thought the way she conveys Bodie's feelings, his fear, the close to complete, visceral blind panic at times even though he never loses control, his inconceivable isolation, his incredible courage in holding himself together, is nothing short of stunning. The complete misapprehensions. The way he never hesitates to go in the first place, and never stops trying to understand and cope with an impossible situation. The way a flavour, a scent, a sound can awaken such powerful longings for home.

[Parenthesis: I’ve only lived for a few years outside my own country, and that was still within Europe – different culture, different language, but let’s face it, any European country has a lot in common with another compared with the cultural differences further afield – but I do know someone who was forced to leave his home country and continent, arriving in Europe on a Stateless Person’s travel document issued to him by the UN without speaking a word of his new host-country’s language, and who for many years simply knew and faced the fact that he would never be able to go back (he’d been tortured, a lot of his friends were murdered. The situation in his home country did change, many years later, but that’s another story. I don’t mean to trivialise what happened – it was the absolute impossibility of return I was thinking of).]

I think this part of the story is very strong, and I was completely drawn in. But gradually ….. I felt Bodie became less Bodie-like. And the Ray-character, of course, is never very Ray-like (and perhaps isn’t meant to be). And that meant, for me at least, that what I really get into in fics – neither Bodie nor Doyle in isolation so much as the spark, the relationship between them – just wasn’t there. So despite being completely engrossed at first, I gradually …. lost interest. I do agree about the alien culture and customs being meticulously worked out and detailed, the supporting characters are made real and I’m in awe of the craft – but I wasn’t able to enjoy the story right through. My loss, I’m sure! I wonder what everyone else thinks …..?????

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

I think this part of the story is very strong, and I was completely drawn in. But gradually ….. I felt Bodie became less Bodie-like. And the Ray-character, of course, is never very Ray-like (and perhaps isn’t meant to be).

I agree. Yet I was able to overlook it in this context.

And that meant, for me at least, that what I really get into in fics – neither Bodie nor Doyle in isolation so much as the spark, the relationship between them – just wasn’t there. So despite being completely engrossed at first, I gradually …. lost interest. I do agree about the alien culture and customs being meticulously worked out and detailed, the supporting characters are made real and I’m in awe of the craft – but I wasn’t able to enjoy the story right through. My loss, I’m sure! I wonder what everyone else thinks …..?????

Where it really falls apart for me is the prolonged period of Bodie being a doormat to Doyle's panicked revulsion. Initially, I could believe it, but the longer it went...the less believable it became. Especially once they begin to see each other again. Then I really had problems with Bodie's docile acceptance of what was absolutely illogical, injust, and impractical. Perhaps even that could have been saved for me if the tables had ever finally turned -- or if Doyle had ever actually acknowledged the obvious truth that Bodie was more faithful to their wedding vows than he was. But there's never that satisfaction. It mars what is otherwise a favorite story.

[gritsinmisery.livejournal.com]

Dittos on the "It doesn't work for me." I have no problems at all with AUs -- either of the "adjust one thing in the past and see what happens" kind or the "throw our canon characters into a completely different setting" kind (and yes, I know there's an ongoing argument over exactly what to call each of those.) But this, as an AU of the second sort, really, really did not work for me, and NOT because it was AU.

1) The pacing in this fic is... not well done. There's chapter after chapter of author-indulgent "this is my world, see how detailed I've made it? I've thought of everything!" where not FA happens plot-wise. Then, when we get to pivotal plot points where we could really dig in deeply to how the Lads think, feel, and react, and the consequences of the differences in their cultures and their reactions thereto, the action goes boom-boom-boom, and it's all over and done with. It got to the point where I was skipping large portions of chapters -- barely skimming paragraphs for keywords to see if something was actually happening -- because I was bored stiff with somebody visiting the grocery store again or going to work one more freakin' day.

2) Bodie is more-or-less Bodie (albeit a great deal more tolerant than I think of him, but that's simply MHO, YMMV) but Ray could be anybody at all except that we're told his name is Ray and he looks like our Ray. Yes, I KNOW he's an alien, but still the point of this sort of AU (yes, IMO) is to throw our recognisable characters into a completely different situation and see how they react. The character named Ray in this fic does not behave at all in the way I'd expect the Ray Doyle of canon and fanon to behave (and we never get to know how he thinks, except as other characters interpret him for Bodie.) This story is barely an AU and more an original fic, with a watered-down version of Bodie in it.

3) The ending was rushed and contrived. All these chapters full of all this wangst, and all of a sudden Bodie tells Ray "tell yourself 'tough, it's gonna happen, deal with it', and oh BTW, lose the chastity device," and everything's hunky? Um,... No. This says to me that the author thought, "I'm so tired of writing this fic -- look how long it is -- time to wrap it up."

This story is based on a great premise, but it failed to deliver on several counts. I was not happy to have spent the time it took to deal with it.

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

1) The pacing in this fic is... not well done. There's chapter after chapter of author-indulgent "this is my world, see how detailed I've made it? I've thought of everything!"

I would have to agree with you about the pacing. And, of course, she didn't think of everything which is why we have the insanity of this super-evolved alien culture that has apparently studied Earth in great detail for how long -- and is willing to let a member of their ruling family marry an earthling -- but...no one ever noticed earthling mating habits? None of their anthropologists happened to catch the thing about humans not having this chemical reaction to love and sex? That's quite an oversight for a sophisticated and evolved race of aliens. Kind of like...they can send a man to the moon but they still can't make a decent cup of freeze-dried coffee. *g*

Granted, she did try to foreshadow the oversight with the oversight about the food, but again...how could a race this careless have survived for more than a few decades?

where not FA happens plot-wise. Then, when we get to pivotal plot points where we could really dig in deeply to how the Lads think, feel, and react, and the consequences of the differences in their cultures and their reactions thereto, the action goes boom-boom-boom, and it's all over and done with. It got to the point where I was skipping large portions of chapters -- barely skimming paragraphs for keywords to see if something was actually happening -- because I was bored stiff with somebody visiting the grocery store again or going to work one more freakin' day.

And again, I agree with you. Crucial scenes were skipped in favor of world-building -- and its not the kind of thing I generally have patience for, and yet...I can accept it in this story. Even as I itch to rewrite her. *g*

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

3) The ending was rushed and contrived. All these chapters full of all this wangst, and all of a sudden Bodie tells Ray "tell yourself 'tough, it's gonna happen, deal with it', and oh BTW, lose the chastity device," and everything's hunky? Um,... No. This says to me that the author thought, "I'm so tired of writing this fic -- look how long it is -- time to wrap it up."

The ending is my big peeve with the fic. It does feel rushed and there is no emotional payoff. The prince never does admit (or even seem to see) that he was in the wrong -- or at least behaving irresponsibly and illogically (even while at one point in the story he insists he isn't going to apologize for being alien!). It is a disappointing ending.

This is where an editor is worth her weight in gold -- assuming you've got a writer who can accept being edited.

This story is based on a great premise, but it failed to deliver on several counts. I was not happy to have spent the time it took to deal with it.

I'm sorry to hear that!

[scherwood]

This text worked almost all the way for me. :)
I loved the detailed descriptions of everything. That's one thing that usuallt keeps me glued to the computer screen to read some more. I'm an information junkie~ ;P
The second thing I love is that alien society and people. It sounds like such a cool place... :D
But the place where I lost most of my interest was when she separated Bodie and Doyle for a veeeeeeery long time in the text. I agree that it was necessary for the story, but I've always had problems with the guys being to far appart. (Like the quote from the show: Never far appart.)
The end is brilliant too (probably because you want it to end "happily" in some way... but maybe a little to quick of an end for my taste)... but the looooong text between the beginning where the lads are sepparated and the end is far to long for my taste.
And sometimes I think Bodie is too far out of character... I understands that he loves Ray and all that, but I don't think he would accept the situation like he did in the text. Okay, he did do something at the end, but that still leaves most of the story.
I'm sorry to say this, but if you don't like AU and don't like the lads appart. You probably shouldn't read this text. But if you like a good story about another culture with lots of facts, and can stand the idea of Bodie hurting and alone so far from home, you should probably read it. :)

(I do apologise for any mistakes in this it was too long ago that I read this text... never got around to reading it again. Just couldn't...)

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

This text worked almost all the way for me. :)

Great!

I loved the detailed descriptions of everything. That's one thing that usuallt keeps me glued to the computer screen to read some more. I'm an information junkie~ ;P

The little trick she uses for showing the gaps in Bodie's translation of the language...I thought that was very well done. Among many other well done things.

The second thing I love is that alien society and people. It sounds like such a cool place... :D

I thought so too.

But the place where I lost most of my interest was when she separated Bodie and Doyle for a veeeeeeery long time in the text. I agree that it was necessary for the story, but I've always had problems with the guys being to far appart. (Like the quote from the show: Never far appart.)
The end is brilliant too (probably because you want it to end "happily" in some way... but maybe a little to quick of an end for my taste)... but the looooong text between the beginning where the lads are sepparated and the end is far to long for my taste.

That's the tricky part, I agree. This is where it starts to fall apart -- I still love it, still think it is incredibly memorable -- but that section goes on too long and is just...unbelievable. That Bodie would remain so passive for so long. I just can't see it. Never mind Bodie, I can't see ANYONE putting up with it.

Of course I suppose that's the point here -- that Bodie has a fairytale tenacity and loyalty compared to the more highly evolved Prince Ray (who actually behaves far more like an animal during the separation).

And sometimes I think Bodie is too far out of character... I understands that he loves Ray and all that, but I don't think he would accept the situation like he did in the text. Okay, he did do something at the end, but that still leaves most of the story.

Yep. I'm with you there.

I'm sorry to say this, but if you don't like AU and don't like the lads appart. You probably shouldn't read this text. But if you like a good story about another culture with lots of facts, and can stand the idea of Bodie hurting and alone so far from home, you should probably read it. :)

I don't know because that pretty much describes me, and yet...I love this story. For all it's flaws, I love it.

(I do apologise for any mistakes in this it was too long ago that I read this text... never got around to reading it again. Just couldn't...)

Nope, you've remembered it very clearly. *g* It is nothing if not memorable.

[constant-muse.livejournal.com]

Confession time - I haven't read it, despite having weeks and weeks. BUT your rec has won me over, and I'll read at least some of it so I can follow the discussion.

Actually it was your opening comment about AU stories, "I couldn’t -- could not -- see the point." I was just the same, but not for very long, it has to be said. I was soon won over by historical AUs. But this is the first SF AU I've attempted (unless you count Point of Hopes and Point of Dreams, which I absolutely adore).

Probably better not read any more comments, like heliophile's about characterisation, in case it influences my interpretation.

My first question was going to be - what, no Ray Doyle in CI5, no Agent 4.5 at all? Evidently not, but it doesn't seem to matter given how quickly the action moves in chapter 1, away from CI5 work. Given the length of the fic, I expected a more leisurely introduction.

Will be back later.

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

Dont' read anymore comments! They'll definitely spoil it for you.

I'll enjoy hearing your take on it when you've had a chance to look it over.

[loyseofverlaine.livejournal.com]

I'm a reader who enjoys AUs a lot, but I would have much preferred this as an original story. I honestly couldn't see a lot of either Bodie or Doyle in it, and I started getting fed up trying to find them *g*

But, to play devil's advocate, I loved all the alien detail and the depth of the culture she created. I also found the plot device very interesting: the clash between a culture in which absolute fidelity is a matter of choice and one in which absolute fidelity is a biological imperative. In the context of that cultural clash Ray's actions make sense. For his species, marriage is physiologically like a drug addiction (when we first meet his mother, she is literally dying of withdrawal symptoms because she's lost her husband). In such a culture, to have a partner who is capable of having other sexual partners - who is even capable of thinking about it - must be like having a partner who you know can at any time, without rhyme or reason or remorse, cut off your oxygen supply.

However, because of these issues, it is impossible for Prince Ray to behave like Ray Doyle. It seems to me the writer came up with a great idea, and then wrote herself into a corner, because the issue between Bodie and Doyle isn't based on psychology but physiology. The way she's chosen to fix and get the happy ending doesn't work for me, because she's kind of fudging the very physiological block she set up in the first place.

Bottom line, I think it would have been riveting written with two original characters who we readers were not expecting to react to the situation in the ways Bodie or Doyle would.

[scherwood]

Bottom line, I think it would have been riveting written with two original characters who we readers were not expecting to react to the situation in the ways Bodie or Doyle would.

I agree totally. :)
It was just too far from the Ray and Bodie we know...

[firlefanzine.livejournal.com]

Maybe 2011...?

You nearly got me with your "When I first discovered the Professionals fandom I loathed AU stories. I couldn’t -- could not -- see the point. Everyone from [info]justacat to Kate MacLean told me this would probably change; that it was, in fact, a natural step in the progression of learning to truly appreciate fan fiction. I didn’t really believe them."

It's so true!

I needed some time to enjoy AU!
But now AU works for me perfectly as long as I can say: "Yes! Would they have been born at that time, under those circumstances - they would have acted that way!"

So... It's not the AU - It's SF!
I must say, that I'm absolutely not interested in SF (anymore! I've done my share with H.G.Wells when I was young...).

I get bored from your first sentence: "The first ships of the alien fleet came into orbit..."
If I have to make a choice: "The tyres of the Capri..." Yes! :-)

I DO have a bad conscience that I didn't even try it... But I can't!!! :-(
(And I nearly read everything! If there is nothing else even the substance of content of the hair shampoo...)

Maybe this discussion will convince me?!?

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

Maybe this discussion will convince me?!?

Maybe! But if you don't like SF...well, it's probably going to be a tough one because it is very much an SF story.

Maybe you could just skim a bit and see what you think? Or maybe not. *g*

[squeeful.livejournal.com]

I love world building and I love science fiction and I love AUs in fanfic, but this story always read to me as world building at the cost of characters. As someone else above me put it better, I don't need or want to read about how they go to the grocery store several times. The pace gets bogged down with the details of the culture to where it loses the reader. Sometimes I had to page back after all the description because I had forgotten what was happening before it! It's a good idea in need of a good editing job.

Bodie becomes so passive I scarcely recognize him and Ray lacks the compassion that defines him.

I'd read this before and it took me two tries to get beyond the first couple chapters. I want to like it as it has all the potential elements I love, but I'm more likely to go back and read parts of it than I am to tackle the entire novel again.

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

I love world building and I love science fiction and I love AUs in fanfic, but this story always read to me as world building at the cost of characters. As someone else above me put it better, I don't need or want to read about how they go to the grocery store several times. The pace gets bogged down with the details of the culture to where it loses the reader. Sometimes I had to page back after all the description because I had forgotten what was happening before it! It's a good idea in need of a good editing job.

There are some pacing issues, I agree. Though weirdly, as critical as I usually am of this, I could have gone on with this thing for another 50 pages or so.

Bodie becomes so passive I scarcely recognize him and Ray lacks the compassion that defines him.

I can accept Ray's differences because a) he's an alien, and b) he's a prince and sort of spoiled, and c) he has a total breakdown when he realizes that Bodie was essentially forced into marrying him and that he could leave anytime. Because he's having to accept the fact that much of what Bodie told him in the beginning was a lie.

Bodie's prolonged passivity bothers me -- as does the fact that Ray never seems to accept the reality of who Bodie is (because Bodie is pretty much a saint in this thing).

I'd read this before and it took me two tries to get beyond the first couple chapters. I want to like it as it has all the potential elements I love, but I'm more likely to go back and read parts of it than I am to tackle the entire novel again.

It seems to be one of those stories you either love or hate. At least judging by the reaction here at the Reading Room. *g*

[blkandwhtcat.livejournal.com]

One of the silliest, ridiculously long (my god I thought it would NEVER end) stories in Pros fandom. I hated that I wasted the time to read it.

I don't think I like anything Helen Raven writes, actually. The worst of the worst was that offensive story she wrote about Bodie being a psychopathic rapist, who MURDERS Murphy because he suspected that Bodie and Doyle were lovers (and supported them!) All ripped off from an anonymous story that was quite good. Raven totally ruined it.

[firlefanzine.livejournal.com]

But why do you read it till the (bitter) end if you don't like it?

LOL! And you're talking about Heat Trace? I've already printed it but I can't come over the first two or so pages...
Brother's Keeper was good, wasn't it?

[moth2fic.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much for this rec - I’d never heard of it and it’s gone straight to somewhere near the top of my ‘favourites’ list from any fandom (and I’m multi-fandom...). Wonderful writing. Satisfying length with brilliant plotting/structure. Amazing how she kept the basic characterisation going in such an ‘alien’ A.U. I adore sci-fi, so it was always going to please me on that score. It did what all the best sci-fi does, and made the reader contemplate our own society and culture without the author ever getting on a soap box.

The characterisation was very much ‘our lads’, their likes and dislikes, their moods and their reaction speeds, both in everyday interactions and in the sex and fight scenes. At least, I thought so, and reading the comments I realised I was in a minority here - but Ray was mercurial, passionate, moody, intelligent, etc. and if you graft an ‘earth’ character onto an alien physiology/upbringing you have to accept some differences - this is what Ray would have been if he’d been born there... The minor or supporting cast was well developed, too, right down to Plassen and some of Bodie’s colleagues, and the receptionist in the space station. Ray’s family were a tour de force!

The cultural clash (a subject that interests me deeply and was part of my training and career) was brilliantly portrayed and had fascinating echoes of sexism, racism and homophobia from various human cultures, not just the ‘west’. (Chinese and Japanese attitudes to foreigners were referenced and so were other religious doctrines and practices). The details and description were so good, whether she was writing about the whole planet/system, the islands/towns or the various flats and rooms. The same careful attention was shown to the religion and language, and we were never given an information dump - everything emerged naturally through actions and natural-sounding conversations.I loved all the detail because it enabled me to explore the culture.

The sex was really hot; fresh and different each time, with no descent into clinical ‘tab A into slot B’ anonymity. The explanation of the addiction was there all along and gradually became clearer and more of a recipe for disaster as the story went on. And of course, with their characters, it was bound to go pear-shaped!! The major trauma came just as I was biting my nails wondering what it would be (the point in any novel where you need a problem for the protagonists to overcome) and after that I could hardly sleep for worrying about them!! So I was totally immersed in the story!! The psychology of Ray’s ‘brainwashing’ was very believable, and likewise Bodie’s depression. I think Bodie’s depression explains adequately why he allowed Ray’s rejection to go on so long - that and ‘folorn hope’, and love, which meant he wanted to help Ray and not leave him like his mother.

The only query I had was about the original ‘threat’ that got Bodie ‘trapped’. The misunderstanding was never explained and I felt I wanted to hear from Cowley again - though his role was ably taken over by Malun. And maybe a second visit to Earth would have brought Ray to realise just how far Bodie was alien rather than animal and that perhaps some humans might regard sex based on addiction as somehow animal. Still, that would have made an even longer book. Not that I’m complaining because I love long stories!!

I love the idea of our heroes addicted to each other - earth-psychological-style and alien-physical-style, and the gradual blending of their needs till Bodie needs Ray and Ray loves Bodie.

So - one happy reader! I adore The Reading Room - but it would have been worth it for this rec alone!!!

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much for this rec - I’d never heard of it and it’s gone straight to somewhere near the top of my ‘favourites’ list from any fandom (and I’m multi-fandom...). Wonderful writing. Satisfying length with brilliant plotting/structure. Amazing how she kept the basic characterisation going in such an ‘alien’ A.U. I adore sci-fi, so it was always going to please me on that score. It did what all the best sci-fi does, and made the reader contemplate our own society and culture without the author ever getting on a soap box.

I'm so pleased this one worked for you!

The characterisation was very much ‘our lads’, their likes and dislikes, their moods and their reaction speeds, both in everyday interactions and in the sex and fight scenes. At least, I thought so, and reading the comments I realised I was in a minority here - but Ray was mercurial, passionate, moody, intelligent, etc. and if you graft an ‘earth’ character onto an alien physiology/upbringing you have to accept some differences - this is what Ray would have been if he’d been born there...

I do like that interpretation. As he is an alien being there are bound to be significant differences, so I guess it gets down to how far readers are willing to stray from canon Doyle and Bodie.

The minor or supporting cast was well developed, too, right down to Plassen and some of Bodie’s colleagues, and the receptionist in the space station. Ray’s family were a tour de force!

All nicely done, I agree.

The cultural clash (a subject that interests me deeply and was part of my training and career) was brilliantly portrayed and had fascinating echoes of sexism, racism and homophobia from various human cultures, not just the ‘west’. (Chinese and Japanese attitudes to foreigners were referenced and so were other religious doctrines and practices).

You brought up something that I really liked here in that neither the alien culture nor earth were perfect or idealized. They Hailin suffer from petty bureaucracy and prejudices just like Earth.

[shooting2kill.livejournal.com]

Something in this story...gets me. I'm not sure I can even articulate why.

Yes! That's exactly how I feel about all HR's writing....I really, really love it, yet I'm not sure why and I'm not articulate enough to analyse the 'why' properly (I've tried, many times)....her writing is very different, almost breathless with each sentence ending on a cliffhanger, making me want to rush onto the next bit - like a drug - but I don't know why....I love her characters and yet I can't see them, so it's all a bit weird. Years ago the person I bought the story from advised me that it was very different from Heat-Trace and yes it was in obvious ways, but for me it had lots of similarities...the almost air of depression or doom hanging over both characters and over the whole story, the psychology going on between B and D, the long separation between them in the middle of the story, and the thing with the shirt-smelling - I'm sure that happens in Heat-Trace. But why am I telling you this? I don't know, probably because I've got to confess that I didn't have time to re-read Cook and I'm mentioning the things I *can* remember....but yes, you're right, it *is* flawed and yet I feel it's a powerful story in part simply because of her writing skills and her ability to create a unique atmosphere - in fact with HR it's almost always the atmosphere and style of her stories which grip me rather than the plot. But I *can't* analyse what it is or how she achieves it and I want to!

Thanks for this interesting rec. I'll try and think a bit more on it and return.....

[metabolick.livejournal.com]

for me it had lots of similarities...the almost air of depression or doom hanging over both characters and over the whole story, the psychology going on between B and D, the long separation between them in the middle of the story,

For me too.

with HR it's almost always the atmosphere and style of her stories which grip me rather than the plot.

Ditto.

For me her magic is making me feel and experience what the characters are feeling. It's like I'm inside their heads, identifying with them, and having the same strong emotions. Here's one of my favorite passages in TCATW to illustrate:

Bodie felt his few remaining worries evaporate, dispersed by the emanations of heat from his near-aching heart. An extreme of contentment. “Ray. Ray!” He was surprised at the urgency in his own voice. “Do I make you feel like I do now? That we’ve really known each other forever? I’ve tried to remember what it was like before I ever saw you, and I can’t. I can’t.”

[gilda-elise.livejournal.com]

This story worked big time for me—maybe because at the time (about five years ago,) I didn't know Bodie and Doyle from Adam and Eve. I knew who Martin Shaw was; I'd seen him in the Hallmark adaption of Hamlet in 1970, and then later reruns of Doctor In the House were shown in my area but I hadn't seen or heard of him in all the intervening years. And Lewis who? I read the story because it had been recced by a friend from another fandom. She knew I was into slash and scifi and thought I'd enjoy it..at least, that's her story. *g* Anyway, I loved it. Okay, so I was seeing Jim Kirk in the Bodie role (luckily, the story pretty much centers on him,) but I couldn't put it down. That led me to Helen's other stories and then into the Pros fandom.

About six months ago I decided to reread the story, wondering if it would still work for me. It did. No, it's not the Bodie and Doyle I've come to know but it's so well written I can easily overlook that. And, yes, there is the question as to why the aliens didn't know about Human mating habits but it's one I can easily overlook. It's not much different from the classic Twilight Zone episode where Earth doesn't realize what the aliens who have landed at their door want until it's too late and they finally know that "To Serve Mankind" is a cookbook. Sometimes, we only see the surface and believe what we want to believe. I don't see why the aliens couldn't be the same way.

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

This story worked big time for me—maybe because at the time (about five years ago,) I didn't know Bodie and Doyle from Adam and Eve. I knew who Martin Shaw was; I'd seen him in the Hallmark adaption of Hamlet in 1970, and then later reruns of Doctor In the House were shown in my area but I hadn't seen or heard of him in all the intervening years. And Lewis who? I read the story because it had been recced by a friend from another fandom. She knew I was into slash and scifi and thought I'd enjoy it..at least, that's her story. *g* Anyway, I loved it. Okay, so I was seeing Jim Kirk in the Bodie role (luckily, the story pretty much centers on him,) but I couldn't put it down. That led me to Helen's other stories and then into the Pros fandom.

That's so interesting -- this is the story that played a key role in bringing you into the fandom. Although I am having trouble picturing James T. Kirk in the Bodie role! *g*

About six months ago I decided to reread the story, wondering if it would still work for me. It did. No, it's not the Bodie and Doyle I've come to know but it's so well written I can easily overlook that. And, yes, there is the question as to why the aliens didn't know about Human mating habits but it's one I can easily overlook. It's not much different from the classic Twilight Zone episode where Earth doesn't realize what the aliens who have landed at their door want until it's too late and they finally know that "To Serve Mankind" is a cookbook. Sometimes, we only see the surface and believe what we want to believe. I don't see why the aliens couldn't be the same way.

It's one of those things I can overlook. I think often readers and writers enter into a sort of partnership with certain stories. If the writer tells it well enough, the reader will ignore those largish plot holes -- especially if it's the kind of thing where the story won't work at all if the plot hole is fixed. Because some stories are just fun, whether they make total sense or not.

[alicambs.livejournal.com]

Despite being a SF fan and quite enjoying AUs this story just failed completely for me. I think it was mainly because I was reading it because I wanted Bodie and Doyle and despite searching desperately for them they never turned up, which was kind of a disappointing. ;-)

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

Despite being a SF fan and quite enjoying AUs this story just failed completely for me. I think it was mainly because I was reading it because I wanted Bodie and Doyle and despite searching desperately for them they never turned up, which was kind of a disappointing. ;-)

That's a shame. Still, you gave it a try. Since you're an SF fan, what did you think of the world-building? Or did it seem to come at the expense of character and story as some have felt?

[constant-muse.livejournal.com]

The criticisms of this story being too long, with too much attention to everyday detail, I've avoided by skim reading and concentrating on the last one-third where it gets more interesting. It certainly drew me in and made me want to keep reading. I really enjoyed it, including the vivid descriptions.

I was impressed by Bodie's adaptability, to me that was in character. Bodie makes his own life and his own fortune wherever he goes. It was very pleasing that he wasn't moping about missing Earth, but instead relishing the challenges of his new life and impressing everyone around him. I liked the aside, at the space port when he was trying to travel back to Earth, that our planet had turned out to be very low in the Hailin's priority (although they liked the coffee!)

On the other hand I was a bit thrown by Bodie (and Cowley's) ready acceptance that one man could marry another. How much did the humans know about Hailin society or biology? It is later revealed that Bodie has some casual experience of gay sex, but it hardly seems enough to make him fall madly in lust with a man, an alien even.

Can anyone explain to me why Cowley apparently lied to Bodie about Malun's threat to go to war with Earth to make Bodie marry Ray?

I was a bit worried about the way Bodie was able to get Ray to have sex with him again, finally, by enacting a rape. Partly because the rape bit was worrying, but mainly I was annoyed he didn't think of that in the whole year Ray was sleeping with him chastely on weekends. On the other hand, it was clever of Bodie to work out that by being forceful he could override Ray's hang-up about his gods (Ray although a young man seemed unusually conservative in his religious/social attitudes).

Also I became irritated by Ray being referred to as 'the prince' constantly, and from Bodie's POV, even though he lived a normal working life most of the time. That had the effect of distancing him from the 'real' Ray Doyle, as much as anything else, to me.

Oh I'm so glad now that I've read 'The Cook and the Warehouseman', but I've stayed up much too late. Back later.

[metabolick.livejournal.com]

Ray although a young man seemed unusually conservative in his religious/social attitudes

Yes indeed. Most of the rest of Ray's family, especially Malun, Ferros and Homa accept Bodie into the family, even after learning that he is glarus. They try to convince Ray that Bodie is good for him and that he is crazy for not reconciling with him. They seem much more able to put their religious beliefs aside

[metabolick.livejournal.com]

Put me in the camp of those who adore this story. Granted, it's not canon lads but that doesn't matter to me. Moth2fic's assessment that Prince Ray is what Raymond Doyle would have been like had he been born there is intriguing and I'd have to really think about that. However, as jgraeme2007, I like this Ray-looking creature.

Moth2fic said ...we were never given an information dump - everything emerged naturally through actions and natural-sounding conversations.I loved all the detail because it enabled me to explore the culture. I totally agree. Examples are how Ray's people prefer bitter tastes and Bodie has to water down his kenit to make it palatable. Also, at one point Bodie reflects on how Ray's sheets smell like a spicy herb that to the prince probably smell like lavender does to Bodie.

The original characters are wonderful and I especially like Malun. He is a gentle and generous person but also very matter of fact - you always know where you stand with him.

I am also confused about the misunderstanding that gets Bodie trapped. Does Cowley really think that the aliens will destroy Earth if B refuses? If so, where does he get that idea, since Malun says that was never even hinted at by his people.

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

Moth2fic said ...we were never given an information dump - everything emerged naturally through actions and natural-sounding conversations.I loved all the detail because it enabled me to explore the culture. I totally agree. Examples are how Ray's people prefer bitter tastes and Bodie has to water down his kenit to make it palatable. Also, at one point Bodie reflects on how Ray's sheets smell like a spicy herb that to the prince probably smell like lavender does to Bodie.

I love all the little details. I think they ground the story in reality.



I am also confused about the misunderstanding that gets Bodie trapped. Does Cowley really think that the aliens will destroy Earth if B refuses? If so, where does he get that idea, since Malun says that was never even hinted at by his people.

I think either Cowley deliberately deceived Bodie because he felt it was in the UK's longterm best interests to have an ally on the planet married to a royal -- and because it insured the Hailin base went into the UK -- or Cowley did somehow misunderstand something that was communicated to him.

But the latter seems highly unlikely. The Hailin don't seem to have much trouble communicating. So I think it's more likely to be some of Cowley's ruthless maneuvering for the good of the country.

Loved this - so B/D, so beautifully, subtley done...

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

So glad I kept reading to the end of these 58 comments, because I see that there are people who read CW in a similar way to me! I was hugely surprised to see it described as "flawed", and totally "original fiction", because to me it's beautifully and carefully written for effect, its nuances so subtle that we're not always aware of them, and very much AU lads (very comparable to Larton in that respect). I guess the thing with AU lads is that they're not going to be canon B/D - how could they be, when life has shaped them differently? The question is whether they're the people, shaped by their own circumstances, that our B/D would have become in the same situation - and I think they are here...

Bodie, for example, fights for his country - just as he did in the army, Paras, SAS, CI5, the vast majority of his canon life, in fact. The fight in CW isn't with guns, it's with politics, it's with himself and the struggle to bend to necessary circumstances, and a whole new world. How does he move so easily to a new planet? Same way he moved to Africa, back to England, and between the various organisations - he fought to adapt because he had to, because it was a sense of pride with him, and because he could. And he's stoic about it, as he's presumably been through all his tough canon-training - but that stocism hides his emotions, which come out to Doyle (in canon and in CW) - and which fanfic often describes as his "barriers". So he's able to be patient for a long time while Doyle's battling his own demons because that's a part of his own battle, and it's only when that patience is exhausted that he moves on (from Liverpool to Africa, to the army, to... etc) It's canon.

Doyle has rebelled against his background and is slightly wild (cf hints of his background in canon - cutting up kids, the streets he grew up on, joining the police perhaps to escape it all) but, as someone above mentioned, has a very strong moral code, code of ethics. In canon we see this as his hatred of police corruption, for example, and of drugs, and we even see a glimpse of him thinking about religion in MD. He thinks, and again this is often pulled into fanfic. In CW he thinks about his planet's religion, about his responsibilities as a living part of that religion, and rather than come out as a moment by a river where he crouches down and thinks about dum-dums, it comes out as shock in the way he reacts to the discovery that Bodie is what his religion calls glarus - even in canon Doyle asks Bodie "What makes you better than them?" in one ep, thinking about the greyness of their job, of the differences between "goodies" (isidrol/het) and "baddies" (glarus/gay).

Does Doyle discuss Ann Holly with Bodie? No - he doesn't. Does Bodie discuss Marrika with Doyle? No! In canon they try and separate themselves from their B/D personna sometimes, in order perhaps to cope with other things - fanfic often suggests Ann=fitting in with society/battling non-conformity, for example, and that Marrikka is a return from Bodie's past when he was also trying, perhaps, to conform, before he accepted that he'd rather have Doyle. They both battle to reconcile the people they grew up as, with the people who are now working together, even more than they're working for Cowley. Just as Doyle/Bodie do with the isidrol/glarus issue.

Re: Loved this - so B/D, so beautifully, subtley done...

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

How could the Hailin scientists have missed the fact that Humans mate differently from Hailin? Well, partly because on the surface, they don't. On Doyle's planet (forgotten it's name!) just as on Earth there are couples who don't actually stay together, people who sleep around, people who have children and those who don't. There are large and small families. On Earth we think this is all because of emotional ties - except that we talk about chemistry between two people, don't we, so is it really? There are people that we loathe on first sight, people we know immediately we'll like, and people we feel drawn to - just as is described as esmana relationships for the Hailin. Hailin body chemistry has developed more exclusively along those lines, but I can buy that there are enough hints of it on Earth that it could be missed, if you saw what you wanted to see. I'll cf my experiences between Australia/UK/USA here too - there are so many things that I thought were completely exchangable between those countries, and yet on further experience of each I was absolutely wrong, and things that look similar on the surface are based on very different ideas/principles/understandings...

Hmmn - what else? Bet I have to split this post... *g*

I absolutely didn't see world building at the expense of the characters or the plot - and the ending is very canon-like, I thought. Everything builds up to one explosive moment, when one of the lads acts on a sudden feeling/determination that's been created over a longer period of time. Bodie doesn't immediately click that May-Li was a new and strange character in Doyle's life that could have attacked him - he has to go back over the story with Cowley, go through the various parts of his job in trying to track things down - but the moment he sees Doyle make that circle with his finger it all snaps into place and he knows what's happened. He had to go through all the other parts of his job - diplomat to the Hailin, representative of Cowley's power on another planet - before he finally snapped and knew the only real solution was to leave. And it was Bodie's leaving that ultimately spurred Doyle to overcome his conditioning and go with his intuition - his nose as Cowley would have it, for knowing what was really important...

And I shall stop there, because coffee break is well and truly over, and I've probably bored you all silly by now... *g*

Review of Hostage to Peace

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

If anyone's curious about the source material, there's a review at the Hatstand.

http://hatstand.slashcity.net/zineinfo/novel/hostage.html

I do think, whether you like TCATWM or not, it's fascinating to see what Helen Raven did with the original premise. I think there's a name for that kind of riffing, but I don't know what it is. Are there other example of writers in Pros who did this? Took someone else's work and rewrote it?

Re: Review of Hostage to Peace

[moth2fic.livejournal.com]

Well, it's fanfic, really, in its widest sense! *g* Taking something already written/filmed and writing in the gaps/extrapolating/asking 'what if?'The newly formed OTW would call it a 'transformative work' and publishers of original fiction would be leery. It's clever and exciting when it works.

Thanks for linking us to the review - I won't be buying the novel!! Though as it's out of print I wouldn't stand much chance anyway!

[ronitr.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the rec!
Just wanted to stand up an be counted for the "really enjoyed it" party..
I'm relatively a newbie, and I usually try to steer clear of AU's . So imagine my surprise when I really enjoyed this one…
I do agree that "Bodie" and "Doyle" are NOTHING like their canon selves. But as original fiction , it really captured my imagination.
It was all said, better than me, by the people posting above, so I won't repeat it all. I'll go have fun commenting instead..

(and maybe I'll even try another AU one day… *** shudders uncontrollably****)

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

(and maybe I'll even try another AU one day… *** shudders uncontrollably****)

They grow on you. *g*

So glad you enjoyed the story!

[saintvic.livejournal.com]

Well for the first time in ages I have read the story. In fact I read this story quite a while ago (nearly a year ago I reckon) as it was recommended in numerous places when I first joined the fandom. So I wanted to add a couple of comments from my rather distant memories of it.

To start with it was, for me, a complete disappointment. Other people have expressed some of the problems with this story in far more clarity that me but here are my main problems.

For an AU to work for me as an AU and not original fiction I first and foremost have to recognise the characters. And as I read through the whole story I could not see Bodie and Doyle in the characters portrayed.

I remember catching glimpses of recognisable traits but the complete, complex, characters that we know do not show through in the depiction given here. They were, for me, original characters and as I wanted to read B and D that was a complete letdown.

What struck me looking at some of the comments is how even some of the people who liked the story did not see canon Bodie and Doyle, they were appreciating it as original fiction. And that is great, there is nothing better than being able to find a fic and a world to immerse yourself in, but how can it be classed as a Pros AU if you can’t see the characters distinctly?

The other main problem I had was with the pacing. There was not enough momentum to keep the story moving and to pull my interest along with it. I did read it all, although about half way through I wondered why I was bothering. I kept hoping it would get better (especially as I am a huge sci fi fan) but there was no moment that captured my attention back after it had been lost.

[shooting2kill.livejournal.com]

It's funny, I really love HR's writing and would count all her stories as among my favourites but for some inexplicable reason I can really understand why you make the points you have made about Cook. (Didn't someone recently say that about Marmite? That you either love it or hate it? Maybe it's the same for HR's writing...) Her writing style is so definite and powerful that I suppose it's going to provoke a definite reaction from the reader. I don't even like sci-fi stories, generally, and would never seek them out, yet because I love her style of writing and the atmosphere which she seems to create in all her stories, I can happily read a story in this kind of genre. And something else, like you, there are some stories I don't like because I can't see my bodie and doyle in them at all, and yet there are others where I still can't see them but I can like the story, despite that, so....what's the moral of it all I ask myself? Dunno, but it's fun trying to work it out!

Moving Discussion to Part II

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

The suggestion has been made that we open a second discussion thread in the Reading Room as this one has collapsed on itself.

There may not be much more to say, but in case...I'll go ahead and do that now. If you have comments to add or points to make, could you shift them to the next thread which is right here?

http://community.livejournal.com/ci5hq/100291.html

Great discussion, by the way!