[identity profile] kiwisue.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] ci5hq
The story for this week is "Never Let Me Down" by Shoshanna ([livejournal.com profile] the_shoshanna on lj).

First published as a 'zine novel by Manacles Press (1992).
This story can be found:
At the Circuit Archive
At the author's website

Information - as some of it might be spoilery, I've hidden this - highlight the block text to reveal:

Pairing: Bodie/Doyle

Warnings: graphic Bodie/Other Male, implied Doyle/Other Male.

Author's summary: "I'm taking a ride with my best friend. I hope he never lets me down again."



A skilfully written, beautifully paced novel that draws the reader in early and keeps their attention until the last paragraph. The setting is pure CI5 - the characters feel real, the friendship finely detailed. When things become complicated, when Bodie finds out that Doyle is bi and can't deal with it, when the knowledge brings his "internalised homophobia" (author's description quoted on Pros Lib) to the surface, it's the thread of friendship that keeps them talking and prevents them breaking apart completely.

"Do you still want me?" Bodie caught his breath, waiting.

Slowly Doyle shifted, pulling his legs up and hugging one knee to his chest. He dropped his chin onto his kneecap, and closed his eyes.

"I was afraid you'd ask that." He breathed once, deeply, in and out.

He had already answered Bodie's question. "Doyle--"

"Bodie, I said I wouldn't lie to you. Not even to make it easier on you, or me. Yes." He raised his head and met his partner's eyes. "Yes, I still want you."

Bodie licked his lips. "Why?"

"Why?" Doyle laughed a little, and turned to stare out across the room, away from him. "Christ, I don't know. Because you're my best friend, and I like being with you? Because you've got a great body, and an arse that could drive me crazy?" Bodie flinched, but Doyle didn't pause. "Because you're the best partner I've ever had, and I lie awake at night thinking about you? Christ, Bodie. Why does anyone want anyone?"

Tension was shivering through Bodie's neck and arms. "Are you saying you're in love with me?"

"No. You don't want any part of it, I know that. I'm not in love with you. But I could be." He turned back to Bodie. "I'm sorry."

"For what?"

"Not for feeling this way. For--" He hesitated, then shrugged resignedly, his mouth twisting. "For telling you, maybe."


Slowly, with several false starts and stops, their relationship becomes intimate. There's no magic sex, no zipless fucking, in the beginning - - it's awkward and tentative and at times not all that pleasurable. And Bodie is still struggling to work out what it means.

Bodie wasn't sure he understood how a man could be in love with another man. It didn't fit with anything he'd ever thought of. Doyle and he were fine together; they were friends, partners--lovers, too, he supposed. But what he felt for Doyle was completely different from what he'd felt for a few women here and there, the passion for Marikka and the aching tenderness he'd had for Azande. He'd thought, once, he'd like to marry her; she'd been pregnant when Krivas killed her, and he'd had crazy dreams of taking her and the kid away, finding somewhere safe.

Doyle didn't seem to fit in there at all. But he seemed to think that he could. Bodie remembered the two queers staring into each others' eyes, that afternoon in the pub. A few women had looked at him like that, though usually only very early on in the relationship. He couldn't imagine Doyle looking at him like that, and didn't want to try.


and

Not talking about it--that there didn't seem to be anything to talk about, despite what they'd done--made Bodie itchy. Restless and irritated, one night after a long and frustrating day, he tried again to ask Doyle about the men he'd been with before. But only Doyle brushed the question aside, and Bodie, nettled, repeated it.

"What's the big deal, Doyle? I know all about your girlfriends. All I'm asking is where you meet the boyfriends..." He knew as the word left his mouth that it was the wrong one.

Doyle scowled at him. "And I'm telling you it's none of your business," he snapped. "I don't feel like layin' my personal life out on a slab for you to pick over. Understand?"

They came close to an argument before Bodie backed off, angry and baffled. He wasn't even sure why he was asking, except that Doyle wouldn't tell him, and it left him with a nagging uncertainty. He tried again a few weeks later, picking his time better, and was met with weary brusqueness. How did Doyle meet them? Around. What kind of blokes? Just regular blokes, Bodie. Did you think I went for drag queens or something? Stung, Bodie withdrew, left again with his solitary uneasiness.


Then Doyle injures his ankle, just before he and Bodie were due to go north on a lengthy (and ultimately frustrating) job. Murph goes with Bodie instead, then comes down with a cold leaving Bodie at a loose end...

He took the scrap out of his pocket and flattened it on his leg, considering. He was curious, that was all. Wanted to know what these places were like, what Doyle saw in them. Who Doyle saw in them. Besides, what could it hurt? The worst that could happen would be some ponce making a pass at him, and Bodie was in no doubt of his ability to fend off any queer who might try it on.

What happens then sets the scene for the final crisis and resolution - and all I'm going to say about that is that it's immensely satisfying.
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Date: 2009-03-19 05:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jgraeme2007.livejournal.com
I agree that this is very well-written. It's well done and she does, for me, capture the lads and CI5 beautifully. Good, realistic dialog, strong scene setting, pacing...plotting...I like it very much. In fact, I really can't think of a single thing technically wrong with it. I'll be curious to see what others make of it.

For myself, as much as I appreciate the writing, it doesn't move me -- my response is more about more my intellectual appreciation of her considerable skill and craft. There was no particular emotional connection for me in the story, and I'm not sure why when the writing is so well done? But my feeling for NLMD brings to mind one of our earlier reading room discussions...about the emotional core or emotional resonance of storytelling. Something that is obviously subjective.

Anyway, looking forward to reading the discussion.

spoiler alert

Date: 2009-03-19 06:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] constant-muse.livejournal.com

There is a vivid, graphic realism about this writing that I admired. Lots of good plotty action, other agents, other agencies. And factual details, like Bodie’s precise military at-ease stance in Cowley’s office, and the gun conversation with Castleton. Cowley’s attitude to homosexual CI5 agents is good and clear, and plausible, no fudging there. Similarly, realistic touches like the lads’ concern that any homosexual activity must be strictly private, they can’t take the risk of even being seen, and some frank observations about anal sex that are usually glossed over in fic.

For my personal taste, Murphy was a bit wasted. When placed in the extremely tempting situation of sharing a hotel room with Bodie with nothing to do for a week, Murphy just being unattractive and miserable with a headcold was disappointing. Similarly I got all excited when Jax was paired with Doyle, and then Bodie started to look appreciatively at Jax… but again nothing came of it.

Which leads me to the mild criticism that there were a number of slightly pointless plot points, which could at best be considered red herrings (Jax, sending Bodie on an op with Murphy, the bike ride in the country). These made me think, or even hope, the plot was going a particular way, then it didn’t. Which was at least interesting.

Shoshanna did a good job on the OC, I thought. A single man who loves his cat can’t be all bad. And the little scene where the cat woke Bodie was lovely, there was just enough shock to make it appear as though he was under attack for real.

I liked the way the sex scenes increased in intensity from the beginning to the end. It was refreshing to read a fic where the first time (or even the second or third time) is not the most mindblowing sex either has ever had. The exploration of Bodie accepting the idea of loving Doyle, getting used to it, and finally embracing it, is so well done, through the succession of sexual encounters and through Bodie’s thought processes.

Date: 2009-03-19 06:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] constant-muse.livejournal.com
I'm not sure about 'emotional resonance', but I did care about and empathise with Bodie's emotional journey, for which I credit the excellent writing. His discomfort, embarrassment, curiosity, resentment, were all quite tangible to me.

I think the careful attention to POV helped. There's enough description to see something of Doyle's motivation, clearly he wants Bodie, but the writing is carefully focussed on Bodie's thought processes, where I am always happy to go exploring.

Date: 2009-03-19 07:16 pm (UTC)
ext_3954: (happy grapes)
From: [identity profile] alicambs.livejournal.com
Interesting piece. Bodie's internalised homophobia was well depicted. He liked Doyle, but he had a general contempt and disgust for gays and he couldn't quite match his feelings for his partner Doyle and the Doyle who'd made a pass at him.

I can't say I very much liked this aspect of Bodie, but I guess my biggest difficulty was with wondering why on earth Doyle had made the pass in the first place. Homophobia back in the 1970s/80s was pretty prevalent and all the more so in predominantly male 'spaces' like the services and the police. We're not told but we can assume, both from Doyle's tentative pass and Bodie's subsequent reaction, that there had never been a suggestion of flirtation or sexual attraction between them, so Bodie's reaction is to be expected while Doyle's just seems so out of character and foolhardy.

What I did like was that ultimately Bodie wanted to hang onto the friendship and I fully understood his curiosity although it amazed me that Doyle permitted it after Bodie had hurt him so deeply (even if he had kind of bought it on himself).

I'd have liked more depiction of the friendship, we just got snatches of it, and in a way this could have been a very powerful piece about the importance of friendship and acceptance, but there again I guess we'll all here for the B/D in the end. ;-)

Date: 2009-03-19 07:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jgraeme2007.livejournal.com
I'm not sure about 'emotional resonance', but I did care about and empathise with Bodie's emotional journey, for which I credit the excellent writing. His discomfort, embarrassment, curiosity, resentment, were all quite tangible to me.

Yes. She does a great job with it -- and it all feels very real.

It's probably one of the best jobs I've seen of the rational approach to the falling in love with your partner dilemma. She does a good job in dissecting matters of the heart. *g*

I think the careful attention to POV helped. There's enough description to see something of Doyle's motivation, clearly he wants Bodie, but the writing is carefully focussed on Bodie's thought processes, where I am always happy to go exploring.

While it's all Bodie's POV, she's skilfull enough that we see very clearly what Doyle is experiencing -- we see that he's suffering too -- I really enjoy an author who can do that subtly, which she does.

It's hard for me to explain what I mean by "emotional resonance." I think because I'm still analyzing it myself. I certainly felt for and responded to the characters. There's no question that she did a good job with them.

Re: spoiler alert

Date: 2009-03-19 07:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jgraeme2007.livejournal.com
Which leads me to the mild criticism that there were a number of slightly pointless plot points, which could at best be considered red herrings (Jax, sending Bodie on an op with Murphy, the bike ride in the country). These made me think, or even hope, the plot was going a particular way, then it didn’t. Which was at least interesting.

I wonder if it's that lack of drama that works both for and against it with a reader like me? I think I did keep expecting...more. And yet it was sort of a relief there wasn't more...

Hmmm. Interesting.

Date: 2009-03-19 07:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jgraeme2007.livejournal.com
I'd have liked more depiction of the friendship, we just got snatches of it, and in a way this could have been a very powerful piece about the importance of friendship and acceptance, but there again I guess we'll all here for the B/D in the end. ;-)

Well, once the sex begins, that does pretty much become the focus in a piece like this. I agree it would be interesting to see how one of the more skilled gen writers handled this theme -- assuming it could be accomplished without turning it into an excuse for another Mary Sue fantasy. I'm sure it's been done...I just don't recall any particular story.

Date: 2009-03-19 08:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] firlefanzine.livejournal.com
"but I guess my biggest difficulty was with wondering why on earth Doyle had made the pass in the first place."
I had no problems with that. The story is told in Bodie's POV. We only get hints about Doyle. There a 'trembling', there a thought of Bodie that he recognized that he has never lost a thought about 'how Doyle was feeling'.
So I take it as a part of the story that we are not told how long Doyle had struggled to get to that point. So I don't think that we can say that Doyle's effort was foolhardy.
And if you tell me that there was no sexual attraction between them... welcome to the gen side! :-)

Date: 2009-03-19 08:32 pm (UTC)
ext_3954: (Default)
From: [identity profile] alicambs.livejournal.com
And if you tell me that there was no sexual attraction between them... welcome to the gen side! :-)

No thanks ;-) but in this story there is never any suggestion of sexual attraction on Bodie's part. Mind you, Bodie could be lying to himself, but since the whole point of the story is Bodie's 'dealing' with his knowledge of Doyle's attraction and his slow curiosity I'm going to assume he wasn't.

Re: spoiler alert

Date: 2009-03-19 08:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] firlefanzine.livejournal.com
I always feel that sort of a relief that there wasn't more about 'cases' and 'action'. We lover Bodie and Doyle for what they are - dangerous men in a dangeroeus job - but for me it's enough when there are only hints of their ops, when we can handle instead the aftermath of it - a little h/c and their feelings about it...
And the bike ride in the country - it was a nice intermezzo, but what for blow it up?
So for me I really can say that the lack of drama is a positive aspect!

Date: 2009-03-19 08:39 pm (UTC)
ext_9226: (pros jacob doyle - snailbones)
From: [identity profile] snailbones.livejournal.com



I have to say thanks for suggesting this one. I read it a couple of years ago I think, and it made no impact on me at all then - didn't dislike it, but it just didn't do anything for me one way or another.

So, left to my own devices, I'd probably never have read it again *g*. But reading this time - OMG I loved it! Maybe I just needed to read it twice - I think the first time through I was probably waiting for something plotty to happen. Not sure what it was, but I'm so glad I gave it another go.

I love the friendship that keeps them together, keeps them circling one another, trying to understand and forgiving one another. And I love the awkwardness, that they like different things in bed, that it doesn't all come together perfectly the first time... there's something charming and very in character about their fumbling efforts.

I really enjoyed reading it again, thanks.

Date: 2009-03-19 09:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] firlefanzine.livejournal.com
Hmmmm... but how would his Homophobia fit. If he is not attracted - would friendship be enough to overcome his restraints? I must read those parts again!

Date: 2009-03-19 09:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] firlefanzine.livejournal.com
It's not yet time to join here - for I'm only half through with the story - but I loved it from the third page and there are so many hints of their friendship and so many understanding between them, good CI5 parts but not too many, some action but the focus is on the two of them. And what I've heard here from the spoilers there are more good things to come! :-)
I'm really afraid about my sleep tonight...

Thanks for that rec!

Date: 2009-03-19 09:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shooting2kill.livejournal.com
It's not yet time to join here - for I'm only half through with the story

Me, too, only I'm just about a third way through and having to read online which I hate (and how *do* people read so quickly?) but...so far, so good and I'm enjoying the story, thank you very much....

Date: 2009-03-19 09:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shooting2kill.livejournal.com
and I *hate* being message 13....

Date: 2009-03-19 09:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] firlefanzine.livejournal.com
Fortunately there is not too much to do at work - so that I can read a bit there... But I too sometimes wonder how much others manage to read!
But the story really is very satisfying, isn't it?

Date: 2009-03-19 10:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shooting2kill.livejournal.com
But the story really is very satisfying, isn't it?

Yup, I'm enjoying it so far.

Date: 2009-03-19 10:00 pm (UTC)
ext_9226: (pros jacob doyle - snailbones)
From: [identity profile] snailbones.livejournal.com



LOL - normally I'm the world's slowest reader, but I was up most of last night and bored, and once I started reading, I didn't want to stop *hg*

Date: 2009-03-19 10:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] firlefanzine.livejournal.com
Hehe! I agree!
"...fumbling efforts" is a good description!

And I too think that there are some stories I disliked first that I would see today with other eyes - probably the first AU's I've tried!

But this story caught me from the beginning!

Re: spoiler alert

Date: 2009-03-19 10:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] constant-muse.livejournal.com
It worried me a bit that I am starting to look for stereotyped plots in the fic - if Bodie is alone with Murphy, I expect they will have sex and Doyle will find out, if the lads go on their bikes for a country picnic, I expect they will have sex outdoors...

So I felt Shoshanna may have flirted with these ideas and then amusingly went off in another, more original direction.

I hope this has cured me of my stereotyped expectations, too.

I like the idea of only hints of their ops. There need to be some ops, because that's what they do everyday, but I do sometimes get bored with too much detail.

Date: 2009-03-19 11:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] constant-muse.livejournal.com
Sorry, I'm a fast reader (so I miss lot) and I just can't resist reading on once I've started a fic. My work suffers (hangs head), but it's in a good cause.

Date: 2009-03-19 11:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jgraeme2007.livejournal.com
No thanks ;-) but in this story there is never any suggestion of sexual attraction on Bodie's part. Mind you, Bodie could be lying to himself, but since the whole point of the story is Bodie's 'dealing' with his knowledge of Doyle's attraction and his slow curiosity I'm going to assume he wasn't.

True, although I think part of what's happened here is Bodie has repressed his memories of...was it Billy? I don't have the story in front of me right now. So I think he wouldn't have recognized or acknowledged any feelings of attraction or sexual interest for Doyle.

I mean, if there really was NO interest or inclination, I can't see him reasoning himself into it despite his fondness for 4.5

Date: 2009-03-20 12:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] byslantedlight.livejournal.com
Just finished re-reading - phew! Much to think about... Two immediate reactions - gaaah for Americanisms, or perhaps gaaah for my apparent sensitivity to them these days!; and... hmmn. *g*

What do I mean by hmmn... I really like this fic, firstly, and I always have. There's a great connection with Bodie, and with how he's feeling about his new thoughts and how they connect with things from his past, and how he wants to know more, but... I also feel as if there's something missing, as if another couple of dozen pages could have made this so much more wonderful by filling in some gaps...

It might just be my mood now, mind - always bear that in mind, but... a few questions...

a) What exactly happened with Billy to put Bodie off gay sex? It seems as if it was the fact that he was abandoned by Billy very quickly - but we don't really get any explanation for this, so that to me it was a little bit here's-the-trauma-that-made-Bodie-deny-his-latent-homosexuality-now-let's-get-on-with-the-present... I really really really don't want heaps of melodrama about it, but I felt that it could have done with a wee bit more... connection between Bodie's past and present. We never actually find out why he's denying his feelings, and I felt a little dangling in mid air over that bridge, to be honest...

b) Doyle... I know this is tightly from Bodie's pov, but again we're not given a hint of Doyle's motivation for feeling safe enough to come on to Bodie in the first place, or - more importantly to me - why he keeps refusing to talk to Bodie about his past. Again it felt in the set up as though we were leading up to something (maybe Doyle actually hadn't much experience with blokes, maybe he'd had a past bad experience) - we're eventually (very near the end) given a vague hint that he'd rather not talk about it, just as Bodie'd rather not talk about his mercenary experiences, but... it's not quite enough for me. We could have been shown so much more despite the pov, enough for the reader to click oh, look... even if Bodie didn't...

c) There's a lovely discomfort in the idea that Doyle just really doesn't like fucking, but he likes his nipples being played with, and he likes sex with men/Bodie... but there's almost a bit too much discomfort for me (and I like uncomfortable fic!) because it's never quite resolved in any way... we're left thinking that Doyle will never like to be fucked (even though Bodie does, and Doyle likes fucking, so it should be a beautiful symmetry, but...)... oh, maybe it's that I find it difficult to believe that of Doyle! And not from fanon either, but from the way he moves in canon, from the way he reacts in thingie-ep to having his neck kissed, just... I can far more believe the stories that are convinced that he's almost eternally ready for sex... *g*

d) On the one hand I like Bodie's naivity over gay sex, and the way he wants to find out more because Doyle won't tell him anything... but I'm rather flummoxed over why Doyle won't tell him anything. There's very little hint in Doyle's behaviour that it's because Bodie means more to him than any of his exes, whether male or female, and is being coy because of that, so it read more as stubbornness to me...

e) Similarly, I couldn't quite see the motivation for Bodie attacking Doyle - alright, confusion and conflict etc etc, but... It wasn't quite built enough for me.

Date: 2009-03-20 12:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] byslantedlight.livejournal.com
I mean, I really do like this fic - it's just that when you start me off analysing things more deeply, as when I was reading this, I come up with this stuff... Which weirdly enough didn't come up for me with Victorian Gardener at all - maybe because I wasn't lead to believe that the author was trying to be gritty and realistic... Lizzie's writing is good enough that when she tells me - here's the world, I believe it and settle in for the ride. Shoshanna's writing is good enough that when she tells me look, this is the real, gritty world I also expect to see that world - but therefore the shortcomings in the world she creates are also clearer to me... I'm-so-realistic-that-we're-going-to-acknowledge-that-not-all-gay-blokes-enjoy-being-fucked contasts too much with little things like Murphy grimacing at the idea of instant coffee. Everyone drank instant coffee back then - it was as obviously unstated as breathing... And in the same way, if you're telling me here-are-the-realities, I need to be able to see how and why those realities are existing in this world...

I suppose my next comparison is to the fab tight-pov queen, Kate MacLean, who is such a good writer that she can not only show us the world as seen by her charactor/narrator, but without fail gives us that amazing emotional tumble at the end - the same one experienced by her character/narrator, so that we're right there - when they realise that they've only been seeing the situation from their own point of view, whereas the other character has seen it differently, which is exactly what happens in the world (imnsho - and experience!). I feel set up for a similar sort of tumble, by NLMD, but we never quite get there... there's just the everyday trudge of life, which is of course realistic, but not really what I read my fic for... I want to know the whys and wherefores of the trudge, I want to know that somehow, even if it's within the trudge itself, the characters somehow... understand the world more clearly (and therefore the reader might as well...) Shoshanna gets there in some ways for me, but I'm sort of left looking back at the rocks falling down into the unknown abyss, thinking hmmmn...

(Darn - I rambled on for two comments - eep!)

Date: 2009-03-20 03:10 am (UTC)
ext_36738: (Default)
From: [identity profile] krisserci5.livejournal.com
What happens then sets the scene for the final crisis and resolution - and all I'm going to say about that is that it's immensely satisfying.

While I can agree that it's well written. . . it doesn't come close to satisfying. For all the anguish I go through I really wanted something to balance it and it's not there for me.
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