The Reading Room - The Victorian Kitchen Gardener

[probodie.livejournal.com]

This story can be found here:-
http://www.thecircuitarchive.com/tca/archive/6/thevictorian.html
and here:-
http://hatstand.slashcity.net/lizzie/victorian.html



The basis of the story is that Doyle is recovering from an illness at his sister's house, and Bodie is the eponymous hero whose job is under threat by virtue of his boss retiring and a vacant Head Gardener post becoming available.

This story hits the spot every time I read it because it's not only a wonderful first time, it's also an historical romance but it isnt in the least bit cloying or sentimental. It's a jolly well written romance, and if there is one kind of story I like, it's a good, old fashioned historical romance - this one tempts you in right from the very beginning with this evocative first paragraph.

Bluebell woods. If there was one thing that Raymond Doyle considered to be the very essence of his country of birth, it was bluebell woods. You could keep your Royal Family with Queen Victoria refusing to come out of mourning, your stately homes full of upper class twits taking tea on the croquet lawn. This was what it was all about as far as he was concerned. Bluebell woods. In May. To have the time to stroll like this through a sea of blue with the subtle perfume invading his senses was pure bliss, to listen to the birds sing and feel the breeze gently ruffle his curls was to feel a part of nature itself. He was blissfully unaware that he himself fitted well into the picture, his long wayward hair and elfin eyes mixing with an obvious sensuality to form a vision that was breathtakingly beautiful. If anyone belonged here in the woods it was he.

I can almost feel myself there with Doyle, strolling in the woods with the bluebells swaying in the breeze - it just conjures up a wonderful imagery with Lizzie always seems to achieve with the greatest ease in all her stories.

This next part also gives me pleasure to read, but in a different manner to the above paragraph:-

A man was at work, chopping down a small tree. As he'd apparently not been heard approaching and the oak affording excellent cover, Doyle watched in secret, taking voyeuristic pleasure in the picture presented to him. He guessed the man was about his age, bigger, though not much taller; firm muscles and weathered hands confirmed his outdoor existence. Short dark hair wet with sweat framed his head. Dark eyes, very dark eyes, and the kind of pouting mouth any debutante would have been proud to own completed the picture. The man had discarded his shirt, presumably thinking himself too far from the big house to be observed by females of the swooning variety.

Doyle watched, an elbow braced against the tree, eyes narrowed, one thumb rubbing absentmindedly over his lips. Moistening them he unconsciously slipped the thumb into his mouth and allowed his tongue a few seconds play.

Ray's eyes did a thorough reconnaissance job on the figure in front of him. The man was quite beautiful, muscles rippling as he worked, his swing betraying the fact that this was a task he had performed many times before. The exertion had made him sweat a great deal and after a while he stopped and moved to a bottle standing nearby, full of what Doyle presumed to be water. It was almost empty, so that what happened next should not have been a surprise; a full bladder in need of relief does not like to be ignored...but Doyle's heart still skipped a beat when he realised what was about to happen.

Returning to his place while at the same time undoing fly-buttons, the man exposed his manhood to the fresh air. Doyle was transfixed as a gush of amber fluid hit the tree that was being felled, splashing noisily onto the ground below. Something snapped inside Doyle. His trousers were suddenly unbearably tight and his hand went to the place, rubbing himself frantically, with the outcome inevitable. He gasped audibly several times, his head falling against the bark of the tree as he pumped semen into his trousers, unable to control the intense waves of pleasure that washed over him. Ray could hardly breathe and as his knees collapsed he had to kneel, gasping for air and leaning against the tree for support. Reality was slow to return and with it came the realisation of what he had just done. Dear God. His escape was rapid, but hardly noiseless; Doyle was very fast on his feet when required, but was slowed on this occasion by his body's reaction to sexual release. Nevertheless he was sure, with the confidence of the guilty, that he had got away with his indiscretion.


So now we have the manner of the way these two 'meet', although Doyle and Bodie dont actually meet face to face until just a bit later on, and at church no less!

There are lovely moments between the two with plenty of bantering:-

"First rule of survival in a big house like this, make sure you get in, and keep in, with the cook. Then if you can possibly manage it, the housekeeper. The cook? With my appetite? Easy! They like watching working men tuck into platefuls of food they've slaved over." He snorted. "She'd see you as a challenge though, better not take you within a mile of her kitchen or she'll pin you to a chair with those beefy arms of hers and force rice pudd'n down your throat, to fatten you up! And don't think your police training would help you either. Grown men think twice about confronting her, I can tell you! Don't you eat much?"

Doyle was laughing at the picture presented by Bodie.

"I'll bear that in mind! No, I'm a bit picky with food I suppose. Been ill too, don't forget. What about Miss Hobbs?"

"Her? Yes, well, she's nice enough already, just listened to a few foot woes, sympathised--"

"Smiled at her, batted your eyelids," Doyle interjected.

Bodie did at least have the decency to look slightly ashamed, but not for long.

"Think I might be good at that, do you?" he grinned.

"Just a wild guess, but yes, I think you'd use your charms to wrap some poor defenceless woman around your little finger." Ray was also grinning from ear to ear.

"Defenceless!! Oh now come on, you've seen her, you can't call that defenceless!!"

"I think anybody could be if you chose to make it so."

And here:

He was still deep in thought when Bodie returned, the mischief still present in his eyes.

"Penny for 'em?" Bodie smiled

"I think you know. Don't you?" Doyle replied. "Not sure how though."

Doyle was having a hard time keeping a straight face with that rakish grin mocking him.

"Policeman aren't you?" He was still grinning.

"Yes."

"Should follow your own advice then."

"Which is?" Doyle felt he was permanently two steps behind this bewitching man.

"Come quietly."


Written with gentle good humour, it also involves plenty of angst for us to worry over, including misunderstandings and deliberate hurting of each other,mainly due to Bodie not wanting to deal with his 'problem' by talking it through with Doyle.

Well aren't you at least going to try? You're going to give the job away, is that it? For God's sake Bodie!!"

The shutters had come down. Bodie was wearing an expression he hadn't seen before, mutely defiant, stubborn, but Doyle was also an expert at stubborn.

"Will you talk to me?" He let out an exasperated sigh. "I might be able to help you. No problem is insoluble!"

Bodie was now standing over the compost heap, twisting off the large green leaves of the rhubarb, plainly angry, judging by the treatment he was giving it. To Doyle, who had only minutes before been in the man's arms, he seemed suddenly a stranger.

He moved to Bodie's side.

"Bodie," softly. He put his hand gently on the man's shoulder. "If you can't tell me who can you tell?"

"I don't actually want to discuss it with anyone, Ray. Now if you'll kindly excuse me, some of us have to work for a living." Doyle's hand was thrust roughly to one side and Bodie began to walk away.


I dont actually want to post anymore because it's all plotty-angst and whilst I adore the story, I dont want to give anything away to those who want to have the pleasure of reading it for the first time.

Lizzie is one of the first writers I turn to when I'm feeling blue, sad or lonely because even one glance at her always evocative stories make me feel a whole lot better. I could have picked any one of her stories - Cider with Bodie is yet another great one - but I chose this longer story.


I hope you enjoy it, and I hope this simple review is suitable for on here *g* Forgive me for the late posting but I fell after leaving work this evening and spent a couple of hours up in A&E .

Comments

[sc-fossil.livejournal.com]

I hope you're okay!

Thanks for the review. I've read the story and really enjoyed it. I like Lizzie a lot. She does make one feel better, doesn't she?

[probodie.livejournal.com]

Im fine, my right knee is just bruised and swollen, but it'll be okay in time.

Glad you liked, its a great story and yeah, she doesnt make you feel better.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Oh no - ohnoohnoohno! You seem to be spending far too much time in A&E with various people! Hope you're not feeling too bad - I'm saving Lizzie for lunchtime reading today, so will pop back later to read your review. I adore Lizzie though... *vbg*

[probodie.livejournal.com]

You seem to be spending far too much time in A&E with various people!

I know - bloody busmans holiday. Still, at least I was in and out within the hour which was the best time I've done! It's swollen and bruised my knee, but I can at least walk on it this morning!

Yeah, Lizzie is great - hope you liked the review.

Thank you

[constant-muse.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much for making the effort to post, almost from your hospital bed (poor you, you really must see too much of hospitals). Your dedication to CI5 duty is truly commendable and much appreciated.

Re: Thank you

[probodie.livejournal.com]

One tries...lol I'm just sorry I couldnt do it before midnight last night!

[snailbones.livejournal.com]

Ouch! Wounded in action, and yet still you post... ::pets and pins on medal::

Hope you're ok today, not black and blue.

[probodie.livejournal.com]

Bruised, swollen and it hurts a tad but at least I can walk on it :D Thanks for the medal - I shall wear it with pride!!! lol

an appreciation, with spoiler alert

[constant-muse.livejournal.com]

See how probodie unfolds her cunning plan to seduce us into reading m/m romantic literature by introducing Lizzie's lovely writing. Well, I don’t need any persuading, would be reading it already if there wasn’t a lifetime’s worth of Pros fic to enjoy.

Having declared too early in my Pros-reading career that I couldn’t be doing with that AU stuff, I’ve had to eat my words with jam on. I very quickly found historical fics figuring among my favourites, so ‘The Victorian Kitchen Gardener’ is just a delight.

I’m sure I’d enjoy (to say the least) similar fic that was about original characters, but there is something very appealing about knowing the characters. Historical AUs usually start with the pov of one of the lads, and then it’s such fun anticipating the appearance of the other – in what guise? And the thrill of recognition of the trademark features and mannerisms… And little Pros-y extras, like the sandy-haired Scottish butler here (‘Upstairs, Downstairs’ cross-over! – I wonder if there are more characters from that series in this fic? I was never an ardent viewer, ahem.)

Thanks to Lizzie, we don’t have to wait long at all. It's lights… character… action – mostly in the potting shed! The lads get it on with almost indecent haste. Would someone who’d avoided any sort of sexual relationship until the age of 32 really be so impetuous about his first experience? Such is grand passion, apparently.

Because I don’t like angst, it saddens me that Doyle is so horrid to Bodie, first not being honest with him about the book, then being all cold over the reading lessons, and then bolting after the incident at the stables. I understand he is upset that Bodie was complicit (at most) and turned a blind eye to the goings-on at the stables, but that evening Doyle had decided to make it up. Why would he revert so firmly to being angry and resentful? I would have liked them to join forces and do something more to bring the wrongdoers to justice (more Pros-y, in other words, the fight scene in the stables could have been just a starter), and then live happily ever after in the rose-covered cottage.

My only other complaint is how accepting and tolerant the other characters are about the homosexual relationship, ‘Cook’ particularly. With Doyle’s sister, I’m torn. On the one hand, a provincial Victorian vicar’s wife couldn’t possibly be so tolerant about her brother indulging in such immoral and illegal behaviour, and with a mere gardener. The suggestion of them getting married should have brought on an attack of the vapours. The very least she would do would be to preach to him about the error of his ways. On the other hand, she *is* written as being very sympathetic and sensitive to other people’s point of view, she shares some of her brother’s tastes/attitudes, and she wants him to be happy.
Anyway, it’s only a beautiful (picture) story.

Re: an appreciation, with spoiler alert

[probodie.livejournal.com]

Ahh see it's the angst I adore. I love Doyle being nasty to Bodie because it brings out my feelings of wanting to shout at them and it makes me involved, you know? It's not that I want Bodie hurting, but it makes the making up all the more gorgeous when they do.

I know what you are saying about people being accepting, but I think the lower classes back then were more tolerant of people being different. Or maybe that's just the way I like to see it *g*

Thanks for commenting :D

Re: an appreciation, with spoiler alert

[shooting2kill.livejournal.com]

Thanks for this interesting review and you took the words out of my mouth with your 'bluebell woods' quote. For me, that was my (very early) ‘in the moment’ moment, when I thought ‘yes!’ I *know* this is going to be good, I can feel it in my bones and I’m there with Doyle, wandering in the lovely English countryside, only I know something that he doesn’t know and that is soon, hopefully, we’ll come upon his soon-to-be lover.

I love Lizzie’s stories and I’ve been trying to work out *why* I do because they’re nothing like most of my other favourites stories which tend to be on the gritty, darker side of the scales, fairly unromantic compared to Lizzie’s very original brand of romanticism (though I’d argue that many of my favourite, grittier stories *are* romantic in their own way. Angsty? Yes, though I prefer the word ‘realistic’ because I think that the reality of their lives within ci5 at that time (as lovers) would be very complex bordering on angsty......). So I’m trying to work out what it is about Lizzie’s work that I love. I think the main thing which I noticed very early on in this story is her ability, at a moment’s notice, to combine the innocent with the sensual, so we have Doyle innocently walking through bluebell woods when suddenly, Short dark hair wet with sweat framed his head. Dark eyes, very dark eyes, and the kind of pouting mouth any debutante would have been proud to own completed the picture. The man had discarded his shirt, presumably thinking himself too far from the big house to be observed by females of the swooning variety.....and it works so well with Lizzie’s deft but sure touch. The same in the church. In one very ordinary moment we see Doyle, like everyone else, looking around the church on a Sunday morning wondering who’s there when suddenly, POW! His life is turned upside down. Bemused, he turned to see who else was seated on that side of the church and his own eyes met....a pair of the deepest blue. The shock pierced his body like a knife. Emotions once again in a turmoil

I loved her humour: She was, as he expected, standing near the entrance with Miss Hobbs and her feet. Lizzie seems to like people, it shows via her other characters and never fails to enrich the writing.

jaycat92 mentioned Forster’s Maurice and I was also minded of a cross between the innocence of The Secret Garden (the robin) and the eroticism of DH Lawrence, none of which are a bad pedigree for a pros writer!

I think she excels at the AU - particularly the Victorian era - and she always manages to retain enough familiarity about the characters to allow me to think that they are still our Bodie and Doyle. Bodie, tall, dark and enigmatic, teetering on violence when pushed, inscrutable, still in denial though this time it’s more about literacy than his sexuality (which reminds me, was literacy among the working classes *that* widespread at that time? I didn’t think it was, so would it have been so shaming for Bodie to have to admit that he couldn’t read or write?). I think Doyle’s character was a bit less like the Doyle I know and love but it didn't seem to spoil the story. The use of the term ‘policeman’ sounded quite modern to me, though I don’t know what else you would have called him then – peeler? And he *was* a bit fragile in it, even though he’d been ill.......But Bodie beating him up and hitting him not once but twice! Once in the face, maybe, but in the guts! No, that’s not my Bodie. Anyway, it didn’t seem to matter or spoil the overall effect of the story. Something else I liked about it (and Lizzie’s writing, generally) is that though the story is fairly uncomplicated and easy to follow that's not to say it didn't have its fair share of surprises. When they fall in love so early on in the story and so smoothly I wasn’t sure what to expect next - what would keep us entertained for the duration? But there was plenty still going on, in fact the story just tripped along and had me hooked and I'm not easily hookable! Anyway, I thoroughly enjoyed my reading of it and have to thank you, probodie, for encouraging me to read it in the first place!

[firlefanzine.livejournal.com]

“...spent a couple of hours up in A&E”
Then it’s the same here – hours and hours... I wish you all the best with you knee!

Thank you for your rec!
I’m not through with the story, but your comments are about the part I know, and it makes me somehow curious!

"This story hits the spot every time I read it because it's not only a wonderful first time, it's also an historical romance but it isnt in the least bit cloying or sentimental. It's a jolly well written romance, and if there is one kind of story I like, it's a good, old fashioned historical romance - this one tempts you in right from the very beginning with this evocative first paragraph."

***Bluebell woods. If there was one thing that Raymond Doyle considered to be the very essence of his country of birth... He was blissfully unaware that he himself fitted well into the picture, his long wayward hair and elfin eyes mixing with an obvious sensuality to form a vision that was breathtakingly beautiful. If anyone belonged here in the woods it was he.***

I like the part with the bluebell woods very much, it’s a nice introduction 'into' the story.
But I don’t like those descriptions of Doyle as “breathtakingly beautiful”. I think he looks very good and sexy and absolutely unfeminine! No need for "elfin eyes".

***Doyle watched, an elbow braced against the tree, eyes narrowed, one thumb rubbing absentmindedly over his lips. Moistening them he unconsciously slipped the thumb into his mouth and allowed his tongue a few seconds play.***

Doyle sucking on his thumb??? Oh no!

***...the man exposed his manhood to the fresh air. Doyle was transfixed as a gush of amber fluid hit the tree that was being felled, splashing noisily onto the ground below. Something snapped inside Doyle. His trousers were suddenly unbearably tight and his hand went to the place, rubbing himself frantically, with the outcome inevitable...***

"So now we have the manner of the way these two 'meet'..."

Some time ago I’ve said that for me there are actually no PWPs in Pros – because there is always either a good conversation or a ‘nice’ situation wrapped around it! J
But this thumb sucking and the following wanking behind a tree – and that all from a 32 year old thoughtful Victorian maiden(! as we learn later) is IMO a worse case of PWP!

So the story had a very bad beginning for me. But I was curious because I’ve learned to enjoy AU stories and I like esp.Victorian adventures.

"There are lovely moments between the two with plenty of bantering:-"

***Each, it seemed, knew what the other was thinking, the bond was already in place…
Walking side by side the pair looked as though they had always been together and always would...
It's all right, I'm not going to do that. I promise I won't hurt you, ever. You know that…"***

There IS plenty of bantering! And I love it in the show and in stories!
But for me that constantly mentioned intimateness is hard to reproduce in this story. The author talks and talks about it a lot – but how did it grow? They just know each other for hours, for a few days! There was absolutely no time to develop something like trust or even familiarity not to talk about deep love.

*** Doyle had pulled the bedclothes over his head and proceeded to wallow in his own distress. After several hours he had no tears left...***

I think that was the moment I stopped reading.
Of course Doyle is allowed to cry when Bodie is badly hurt, or even supposed to be dead!
But this crying in bed the whole night long "just" because Bodie told him it all was just a game.
I can’t buy that. That’s not the Doyle I know!

**
I really wonder where the frontiers are!

How long do you think it is heartbreaking beautiful, and when does it turn into something you can’t believe anymore?
Do we all see them SO differently although we watch the same show?
Obviously!

**
But I like the way YOU describe your feelings about the story, so I think I read on and try to see it through more ‘sensitive’ eyes… :-)

[probodie.livejournal.com]

It's great how everyone sees something through different eyes to someone else. Thats what I love about Pros. No matter what your taste is there is always something else that you'll enjoy.

I recc'd this one because I enjoy the imagery it produces plus it's a bloody good romantic story - but I do appreciate that not everyone sees the boys the way I (and Lizzie) does.

Thanks for your comments :D

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

I'm not really here because I have to go to bed now, but I couldn't resist a quick glance at the story discussion, and of course I had to pop in...

I've been thinking about this too, because I agree that there are some things that normally would make me wince in this story (not so much Doyle sucking his thumb, because he does do absent-minded things with his fingers in the eps!) - but perhaps the crying all the night, and the elfin eyes. But at the same time, Lizzie manages to make it very clear that both lads are very strong, and independent and firm in their convictions - somehow they have the same strength as our canon-lads do, and because she shows me that so clearly I can stre-e-etch far enough to see that certain other behaviours might fit in for other reasons (even for poetic license!)

It's odd though - the same words used in stories by other authors might drive me batty and make me put the pages away, but Lizzie manages to pull it together for me so that I'm reading feel-good, romantic and happy-ending-ed but somehow plausible fic. She's one of my favourite Pros authors, and she makes my Desert Island fic list without any problems at all...

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

I recc'd this one because I enjoy the imagery it produces plus it's a bloody good romantic story - but I do appreciate that not everyone sees the boys the way I (and Lizzie) does.

I think if there's one lesson the reading room is teaching us, it's that for every story there's at least one person who adores it, and one who hates it. And then the majority of readers falling somewhere in between. *g*

I have to wait to re-read this one until tonight, but my recollection is the ending wasn't quite as satisfying as I wanted -- as much as I enjoyed the story. It will be interesting to see if that's true on a second read. Any thoughts on the resolution?

[probodie.livejournal.com]

Well, personally, as I loved the story, I loved the ending and found it very satisfying - one of those 'heaves a sigh of happiness' kind of endings. I always end up with a huge smile on my face after reading it.

It is very interesting to see all the differing points of view. It was a great idea :D

[shooting2kill.livejournal.com]

I've got about a third left to read so I daren't look at any of the comments etc. but I just wanted to say thanks so much for choosing this story (I *thought* I'd read it but I hadn't)...I'm loving it!

[probodie.livejournal.com]

Yay! So glad you are. I'll be interested to see your comments once you have finished reading it :D

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

I keep hearing the term "charming" in regard to this fic, and I think that's the right word for it. This is a charming story -- on the whole being an effective and romantic story transcending the weaknesses of its various parts.

Someone mentioned the problems with the easy and casual relationships between the classes? I'm able to overlook that, although I agree that the Victorian period was one of strict social hierarchy, and it's very unlikely the visiting brother of the vicar's wife would be encouraged to form a close friendship with the gardener on a local estate. Also unlikely is everyone's easygoing attitude about homosexuality.

I liked the dilemma of Bodie not being able to read, although I think -- as someone maybe pointed out? -- it wouldn't be that astonishing for a man of his age and background. It could still have been a problem if the owner of the estate had progressive ideas and plans, but I had trouble believing Bodie would be insecure or embarrassed about his inability -- worried for his job, yes. Fair enough.

Doyle falling instantly in love was a little disappointing -- I know love at first sight (or first fuck) does happen, but I never think it makes for great storytelling -- and Doyle sobbing his heart out in his bed just seemed unlikely (although he was convalescent and I guess that could explain the easy emotionalism).

I loved Bodie's cruelty about Doyle's lack of sexual experience -- OUCH! But then that all sort of fizzled away -- one minute Doyle is sobbing brokenheartedly and the next he understands from Bodie feeding the birds that he's really a lovely chap and they're fooling around in the potting shed again. I needed to...er...see the math there.

Very nice sex scenes -- and she really creates a wonderful mood and setting.

Bodie hitting a convalescent Doyle seemed to require more provocation than calling him "idiot." And need a little more in the way of reparation for that. And, in fact, I think Doyle would be more forgiving of the punch than the cruel comment about his lack of experience. His character, in particular, seemed inconsistent. I think it might have worked more effectively if Bodie's needing Doyle's help had followed on the heels of his mocking Doyle's lack of experience -- and no declarations of love until the end of the fic.

(The whole dilemma of the badies in the stables seemed an unnecessary complication -- there was plenty to keep our lads apart already).

The foreshadowing of Doyle's health being badly enough affected that he won't be able to return to policing just gets dropped, doesn't it? Or did I miss that?

Anyway, despite the picking apart of the structure and plot, I do really, enjoy this story -- again, for me its overall charms outweigh its weaknesses.

[shooting2kill.livejournal.com]

Very nice sex scenes -- and she really creates a wonderful mood and setting.

They *were* nice sex scenes, weren’t they? There must be something in those potting sheds.....

I keep hearing the term "charming" in regard to this fic, and I think that's the right word for it. This is a charming story -- on the whole being an effective and romantic story transcending the weaknesses of its various parts.

I also think it’s a charming story and yet......I almost hesitate to use the word because it doesn’t seem to do Lizzie’s writing justice. I’m wondering if charm alone could be responsible for the fact that I was completely entranced by the story, to the extent that I was able to overlook its shortcomings (some of which would have put me off if I’d read them elsewhere) and practically ignore anything negative because it just didn’t seem to matter. It reminds me slightly of very bright people who can explain complex ideas in simple terms to the average person and so I feel that perhaps Lizzie’s writing is deceptive in it simplicity...…it appears simple in style and yet she’s doing something which manages to win me over and engross me time after time but I’m never really sure *how* she does it - how she manages to suck me into the delightful world of Bodie and Doyle, but she does and I'd quite happily stay there. I can’t believe it’s purely down to something like technique or even skill because if that was the case then surely other people would learn these things and produce the same kind of stories, but they don’t. It's almost like a seduction and it's definitely magic! (And I think I've just answered my own question...).

[kiwisue.livejournal.com]

Someone mentioned the problems with the easy and casual relationships between the classes? I'm able to overlook that, although I agree that the Victorian period was one of strict social hierarchy, and it's very unlikely the visiting brother of the vicar's wife would be encouraged to form a close friendship with the gardener on a local estate. Also unlikely is everyone's easygoing attitude about homosexuality.

I think Jaycat mentioned earlier that the "middle class" in particular were very concerned with behaviour and social form, which I agree was the case. However we have plenty of examples, from the Queen down, of great, intense friendships being forged across class lines. Some of those have latterly been identified as sexual relationships, true, but many were not. It's implied that Cook had a clue about Bodie and Doyle being gay, but I don't think that's a given. Bodie is liked by everyone, but he doesn't have any particular friends. His relationship with Doyle could easily be read as something that people are glad about because the value him and are glad to see that he has a new, good friend. Frances, OTOH, does understand what her brother is. But she loves him dearly, and when she thinks "Why had God not seen fit to provide her with the ability to view the world only as black or white? Had he given her tolerance and understanding for a reason?" I think it explains something about her character that goes against the morality/social structure of the time as we perceive it now. This is something I like about Lizzies' work - the sense that people are people, they don't react according to a predetermined formula - e.g. if you are a 19th century pastors wife you *must* behave and think this way.

although he was convalescent and I guess that could explain the easy emotionalism.

Yes - nice way of putting it.

(The whole dilemma of the badies in the stables seemed an unnecessary complication -- there was plenty to keep our lads apart already).

That's the weakest part of the story for me. Because Bodie seems overly worried about Doyle going there the first time, even though he's with the estate manager and it's the middle of the day, I think - why would he do that if he only had a faint idea that there was something bad going on? A little more development, maybe including the concept of 'house' servants (including the gardeners) vs. estate/farm servants and the way they were organised and managed would have helped.

[heliophile-oxon.livejournal.com]

I think you've hit several nails on their respective heads here. The social hierarchy problem - it would have been nice to see a little more weight given to that, even though I'm happy to have them overcome it - Lady Chatterley, after all; they can override social convention, but would have to be aware of the additional element of disapproval likely (as if more were needed!), and even greater discretion/subterfuge required. And sadly of course you're right; the chances of anyone offering two men together a sympathetic ear or even turning a blind eye would be vanishingly small; I could happily buy Doyle's sister having sisterly love win out over all, but for anyone else to approve - which is always helpful in a happy story! - it would have been nice to have special circs of some kind, some special reason to convince us it's more than just a convenient device for the story. It's irksome when they conveniently have too many approving and/or blind-eyeing people around them! But in all honesty as I read I didn't care about the social disparity issue too much - I was more thrown by the easy approval of their sexuality given or implied. A tiny bit more soul-searching on Doyle's sister's part would have been nice!

The whole stables thing annoyed me; it could have been a good idea if it had really been about Bodie's failure to do anything about sexual bullying and abuse (for fear of having his own sexuality looked at too closely, perhaps) - and that might have needed a longer story to do it justice, I think. As it was, it felt to me just a little too reminiscent of "anybody and everybody automatically wants to shag Ray/Ray as target of rapists all the time" that sneaks into fics a bit too often. Of course in reality anybody and everybody really would fancy him *bg* but it's too neat in fics!

Yes, he would have been more upset about having to give up policing. And as jaycat92 says, the stables thing could have had the two of them fighting crime together - a nice nod to CI5.

And yes, despite all this, overall the idea and the setting and the period charm and everything outweighs the weaknesses (almost entirely, anyway). I thought the ending was a bit of a dying fall, though, and the last sex scene felt oddly perfunctory compared with all the others which were much more effective.

Maybe for once I should just have put "hear hear" or "seconded" after your comment! *g*

Egads, foiled again!

[blkandwhtcat.livejournal.com]

I don't think I have the "rules" down for this sidegroup yet - when does the discussion start? I don't have time to read LJ every day, and think this would be a lot more enjoyable in the yahoogroup format. Anyway, I apparently missed the discussion again.

First, probodie, sorry to hear about your accident. Nothing serious I hope!

Second, well, I suppose this fic is well written, but it was SO BORING. And it was totally NOT Bodie and Doyle in any way, shape or form, other than the names and the images. Which can be fine - it works sometimes, but I think the real trick of an excellent AU - as opposed to writing that merely uses the names/images of the characters on what are actually original characters in a non-canon setting - is that you can still "see" the canon characters. This fic did not, IMO, achieve that by any stretch of the imagination.

Unfortunately for me, without Bodie and Doyle, there wasn't much of anything else in this story to like. I found it unimaginative, predictable, stereotypical, and downright unbelievable, even for the romance genre. There was no chemistry between the characters (whoever they were, as they weren't B and D), and the social and educational differences were annoying. I like equals, which is part of what makes B&D such a great team and erotic as sexual partners. It's not the older man and the naive twink story that so many fandoms (from QAF to Harry Potter - total barf) seem to go for, or the manly hero rescuing the "damsel" in distress, who happens to also be a guy (or chick with dick, as the slash-world apparently calls it). It's two DUDES, sweating and cursing and bleeding and fighting and having awesome sex. Not getting all talky and emo (althoug I find that tends to creep into even the very best of fanfic at times. The guys just get a little too talky for the men I see them as on the show).

Anyway, I found nothing much to like about this story. I think it's ridiculous that friends and family members would be watching fondly and encouraging a sexual relationship between two men at that particular time in history. I found all the manufactured "drama" about Bodie not being able to read, his "shameful secret, lol, to be neither strong nor interesting enough to build a story around, and then the rapist stablehands who are having their evil way with the stableboys, and almost rape Doyle - that whole scene made me roll my eyes rather than feel any type of anxiety. And then, for prissy Doyle to use Bodie's inaction to go off and pout for months - ridiculous.

I disliked the setting, the characters, and the story. I was bored and nothing about the story made me curious to find out what happened next. I really don't care!

Re: Egads, foiled again!

[firlefanzine.livejournal.com]

A bit angry are you?

I don't know of any rules here! And I can't see any reason why there shouldn't be an answer weeks or years later...
I could only imagine that people like to comment when a discussion is hot - so that they can be sure to get more answers. Don't know...

And I was fond of LJ from the first moment on - whereas I can't warm up with Yahoo - it reminds me of the good old BTX days. (And that has nothing to do with the content of the discussions, just the form!)

But anyway I'm glad that I'm not the only one who feels annoyed by this story!
I always thought: "Why does she call those men 'Bodie' and 'Doyle' "?

[moth2fic.livejournal.com]

Does the discussion peter out or end when the new one starts or what? Only I looked back to see what I'd missed and want to thank probodie for reccing this. I enjoyed the story and the discussion even though I couldn't join in.

[firlefanzine.livejournal.com]

I really would wish that it it wouldn't be so! A new answer should place the entry back on top of the flist. But so nobody probably noticed that you did a comment except Probodie and the ones who tracked it(like me).
It's a shame!