The Reading Room - Labyrinth by Jane
Feb. 26th, 2009 09:00 am![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
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ci5hqLabyrinth by Jane
Pairing: Bodie/Doyle
Length: 536K
Author on LJ: unknown
Warnings: unknown
ARCHIVED: The Circuit
I think I’ll preface my comments by saying that I don’t necessarily think Labyrinth is a brilliant fic -- although there are certainly brilliant things about it. It’s not even one of my favorite fics, to tell the truth, but it’s a classic fic and it’s a long, meaty fic, which I think make it ideal for discussion. Also it’s by Jane, and I know many younger/newer writers and readers aren’t so much familiar with Jane’s work as with what has been written about Jane’s work. Love her or hate her, Jane was an amazing creative force.
So let’s talk about the fic!
Labyrinth is a CI5 case story and an AU. It’s a first time story, it’s a rape story, it’s a partners story…it’s pretty much got it all, including elves. (And I am grinning as I think of the scene with the elves.) While I don’t generally find Jane humorous, I think this is a hysterically funny fic in parts. And poignant too. Personally, I think the fic goes on too long and, like much of Jane’s work, would have been better served by a good, stiff edit. But what an imagination! And she does write rather nice sex scenes.
Basically, the story opens with Bodie gone missing and Murphy observing Doyle reacting to the probable death of his partner (which is one of my favorite tropes -- third party POV of the lads). While checking out Bodie’s apartment -- and flipping through Bodie’s eclectic choice of reading material -- Murphy makes a comment implying that he thinks Doyle and Bodie are lovers -- they’re not. We proceed to interminable pages of Doyle’s thinking about what he does feel for Bodie and what Bodie might feel for him…blah, blah, blah. Then Bodie is found alive but pumped full of all kinds of evil drugs. There’s nice writing throughout all this, and there is some pretty weak writing too. And, yes, there is the fingernails-on-a-blackboard-usage of “pet” and “love.”
Bodie recovers consciousness, he and Doyle talk about their feelings in tedious detail, and Bodie is released from hospital. He and Doyle attend a welcome home party and Bodie receives a mysterious phone call -- whereupon he tries to strangle Doyle. He’s pulled off in time, but Doyle is unconscious -- and Bodie collapses seconds later. When Cowley arrives at the hospital he’s informed that Doyle is brain dead and -- weirder and weirder -- Bodie seems to exhibit the brain activity of two.
It sounds exactly like the kind of fic I hate, but this is actually where the fun begins. And it is, in my opinion, great fun indeed....
Doyle woke screaming, fright and helplessness making his throat sore and aching, and it was some time before he realised that the hands on him were soothing, not hurting, that he could breathe, and that only his memory was hurting him.
It was hot and he was sweating heavily as he pried open his eyes and opened his sense to his surroundings. The sunlight came filtering down through dense green foliage, in his nose was the smell of humus and decay, and - Bodie. As his senses began to serve him better he heard Bodie's voice too, crooning into his hair, and he realised that he lay back against Bodie's chest, cushioned on him, wrapped around by the strong arms.
"Bodie?" He murmured, his throat still sore.
"Yeah, it's me, it's me, shush, pet, you're all right." Bodie's fingers brushed his cheek with wonderful gentleness. "What happened? What's wrong? I heard your voice and came runnin' - what were you screaming about, Ray?"
"What was I - " Doyle twisted around to look at Bodie. "Christ, you were trying to kill me, strangling the life out of me!"
"Shh, it's all over now," Bodie crooned. "Must've been one hell of a dream, but it's all over now. What I can't understand is what you're doing here. This is the last place I expected to find you!"
Doyle blinked owlishly at Bodie in the filtered sunlight, and at last the little details dawned on him. Bodie was clad in cammo fatigues, and a strip of black rag was tied about his head. There was a machine gun on the ground by his left leg, an FN, standard issue in many armies around the world. And they sat in what seemed to be a jungle clearing - he could hear the sounds of the forest all about…
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no subject
Date: 2009-02-26 06:15 pm (UTC)I like the Murphy pov at the beginning, very pleasant.
'Bodie was clad in cammo fatigues' This has got to be a very promising start, imho, to a scene where you just know there will be sex...
Overlooking the technical failings you mention, this is a great read, thoroughly enjoyed it. And I am very grateful because normally I put off reading long fics, just because of the time required.
no subject
Date: 2009-02-26 06:20 pm (UTC)Heh.
Overlooking the technical failings you mention, this is a great read, thoroughly enjoyed it. And I am very grateful because normally I put off reading long fics, just because of the time required.
I agree. This was a fic I put off reading time and time again, but am very glad I made the effort. It's wildly imaginative and really entertaining.
no subject
Date: 2009-02-26 08:18 pm (UTC)It has above all one really excellent conceit which I love: it's the way impossibly incongruous details from their real life keep emerging in Bodie's fantasy world, where Ray notices them, is jarred, and eventually realises that's where they are - in a fantasy/mental construct. The way Bodie keeps blithely explaining these incongrujities away at first is actually quite chilling - and that part of the story is handled beautifully, imo.
But there is (as indeed you point out) a great deal of lovey-dovey verbiage, and it doesn't sound like them to my ear - well I know it's only my ear, obviously! - and despite a lot of nods towards Ray's physical prowess and competence the overall emphasis throughout most of the fic is on his fragility. At first you might think that this is just a clever way of showing how Bodie has conjured up his image of Ray's physical presence in the fantasy world, but if that were the case you'd think Ray himself would notice!(since he's depicted as being mentally his "real" self all the time). And the Ray we know and love on screen is only very slightly smaller and slighter than Bodie - nothing like this brave but slender, willowy, trembling creature.
I think the fantasy world idea is such a clever way of being able to take them anywhere, have them meet anybody and do anything - and I like Doyle realising what's going on (e.g. where Gandalf comes from) and dealing with it accordingly. But I can't "get" Doyle finding himself in the fantasy world to begin with - he wasn't drugged, only Bodie was. I would have loved the Ray in the fantasy to be wholly Bodie's projection, a figure genuinely capaple of helping him because he's generated out of Bodie's feelings for/relationship with Ray - while the "real" Ray is waiting for him on his return, unaware of what's been going on but having undertaken his own parallel journey while he watches over Bodie in hospital/deals with the villains back in the real world.
Well, my 2p's worth! Looking forward to reading all the different opinions (this book club is such a great idea - I love it!)
no subject
Date: 2009-02-26 08:48 pm (UTC)I think it's a great example of Jane's strengths and weaknesses. The imagination is incredible. The characterization...not so much. But one of the things I find intriguing about her AU stuff is that while the protags rarely seem like canon Bodie or Doyle to me, I do often find them engaging.
It has above all one really excellent conceit which I love: it's the way impossibly incongruous details from their real life keep emerging in Bodie's fantasy world, where Ray notices them, is jarred, and eventually realises that's where they are - in a fantasy/mental construct. The way Bodie keeps blithely explaining these incongrujities away at first is actually quite chilling - and that part of the story is handled beautifully, imo.
Very clever construct -- the way they rationalize away all the incongruities. That is very lifelike, I think. And of course it just gets crazier and crazier as they go along -- so it's very funny for the reader.
But there is (as indeed you point out) a great deal of lovey-dovey verbiage, and it doesn't sound like them to my ear - well I know it's only my ear, obviously! - and despite a lot of nods towards Ray's physical prowess and competence the overall emphasis throughout most of the fic is on his fragility. At first you might think that this is just a clever way of showing how Bodie has conjured up his image of Ray's physical presence in the fantasy world, but if that were the case you'd think Ray himself would notice!(since he's depicted as being mentally his "real" self all the time). And the Ray we know and love on screen is only very slightly smaller and slighter than Bodie - nothing like this brave but slender, willowy, trembling creature.
Yes, Jane's Doyle is rarely a recognizable Doyle to me.
I think the fantasy world idea is such a clever way of being able to take them anywhere, have them meet anybody and do anything - and I like Doyle realising what's going on (e.g. where Gandalf comes from) and dealing with it accordingly. But I can't "get" Doyle finding himself in the fantasy world to begin with - he wasn't drugged, only Bodie was. I would have loved the Ray in the fantasy to be wholly Bodie's projection, a figure genuinely capaple of helping him because he's generated out of Bodie's feelings for/relationship with Ray - while the "real" Ray is waiting for him on his return, unaware of what's been going on but having undertaken his own parallel journey while he watches over Bodie in hospital/deals with the villains back in the real world.
That would have been fun to see, too, although I guess we wouldn't be getting all of Doyle's reasoning out of what happened as he would simply be part of the fantasy -- and for me, it's the fun of watching Doyle make sense of what's going on. Maybe a more realistic Doyle struggling with the fantasy image Bodie has of him? That would be amusing.
Granted, it's difficult to picture them working together effectively if Bodie really did think Doyle was a frail flower in need of protecting.
Well, my 2p's worth! Looking forward to reading all the different opinions (this book club is such a great idea - I love it!)
Yes, discussing stories in depth is a great idea. Really looking forward to the months ahead.
(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2009-02-26 09:34 pm (UTC)That was for me the point of "where the fun ends...".
Up until then it was an interesting reading, sometimes too much talking/thinking but the story builts up and also their relationship, and "boing" an interesting big break - Bodie is the marionette of some villains - Doyle is dead(?) - now there are some new entanglement to come. I thought...
But then that fantasy world...
First I try to follow, then I only read 'in between', then I skipped pages...
Now I would be grateful if someone would tell me, if the original story will be fetched up somewhere?
Should I read on?
Sorry! Normally I'm not so indignant about a story - but this really could have been a good one...
no subject
Date: 2009-02-26 09:38 pm (UTC)The original storyline is resumed, yes.
Sorry! Normally I'm not so indignant about a story - but this really could have been a good one...
Different opinions make for interesting discussion. *g*
no subject
Date: 2009-02-26 10:35 pm (UTC)Her Doyle was 'off'. And the overuse of 'pet' annoyed me to no end.
VT
no subject
Date: 2009-02-26 11:03 pm (UTC)Yes, a clever way of doing a fantasy and still keeping it CI5 based.
Skipping paragraphs...not so good, I agree.
Her Doyle was 'off'. And the overuse of 'pet' annoyed me to no end.
It will be interesting to see if everyone is in agreement on this one.
no subject
Date: 2009-02-26 11:54 pm (UTC)I dislike any story where either partner hurts the other, either physically or mentally, mainly because I cannot see them doing that to one another. And if I cant imagine it, then it doesnt work for me.
The fantasy world just irritates the hell out of me. I find myself saying...why?
So, sorry, not knocking anyone who does like the story, but for me, personally I'd be happy never to read it again.
no subject
Date: 2009-02-27 03:43 am (UTC)That's okay -- not much to discuss if we all agree on every point.
I dislike any story where either partner hurts the other, either physically or mentally, mainly because I cannot see them doing that to one another. And if I cant imagine it, then it doesnt work for me.
In this case, though, Bodie isn't in his right mind. So he really isn't aware he's hurting Doyle.
The fantasy world just irritates the hell out of me. I find myself saying...why?
Humor is really tricky -- what one reader finds funny versus what amuses another reader? Very hard to predict. I don't think of Jane as ever writing funny, but this does tickle me for some reason.
So, sorry, not knocking anyone who does like the story, but for me, personally I'd be happy never to read it again.
Not a problem! There are bound to be plenty of other recs you do enjoy. I'm sure none of us will love every single story.
no subject
Date: 2009-02-27 08:05 am (UTC)I love how the clothes that Doyle finds to put are are obviously what Bodie would like to see Doyle in. I loved how the literature on Bodie's shelves is the ground work for his dream world.
It totally cracks me up that Doyle questions his geography knowledge because he accepts what all Bodie tells him. That aspect unfold cleverally and I don't let the stupid "love" names spoil it.
It's too soppy in the 'real world' of the fic, but I can get past that as well. This is a story I can reread. . . . it's amusing.
no subject
Date: 2009-02-27 03:56 pm (UTC)It's the center part that makes this story. It's so clever -- and it's Jane taking pokes at herself too, and I love that.
I love how the clothes that Doyle finds to put are are obviously what Bodie would like to see Doyle in. I loved how the literature on Bodie's shelves is the ground work for his dream world.
The white leather! And Doyle wondering why he didn't bring anything else with him from London -- and Bodie's, "You must have been rolled, Ray!" I love that no matter what the insanity is, they keep reasoning and rationalizing it away.
It totally cracks me up that Doyle questions his geography knowledge because he accepts what all Bodie tells him. That aspect unfold cleverally and I don't let the stupid "love" names spoil it.
I know. I wince -- and try to tune those out. But overall, I can sort of accept Doyle relying on Bodie in this section because he is TOTALLY out of his element, can't even remember what he's doing there, and has obviously come unprepared for whatever lies ahead. So I can buy a little uncharacteristic floundering here.
It's too soppy in the 'real world' of the fic, but I can get past that as well. This is a story I can reread. . . . it's amusing.
I always think there are two kinds of readers in the world: those who are thrown totally out by anything that doesn't meet expectation -- a misspelling, a single Americanism, using a safety on a rifle, etc. And those who can dismiss a few muffs and still enjoy a basically solid work. I try to be the latter, not the former...although I know I get pretty nitpicky.*g*
(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2009-02-27 09:03 am (UTC)There's the characterisation, even physically: "Small and slight, with pale, perfect skin, big green eyes and red-brown curls. Smiles that made him look like a kid again..." - this is who?
There's what I think is a terrible tendency to make Bodie the oh-wise-one, and Doyle the fragile little muffin, for all she now and then says "but really he's very strong...": "Obviously, as he literally grew up under Bodie's nose, his attitudes were moderating. His hair, once kept so short, was allowed to grow... his clothes, instead of being tattered and scruffy were now sylish and soft". This just reeks to me, not of "feminising" Doyle, but of literally infantalising him.
And then she explains to us how the world works (again, rather as if we were children who needed the education): "That kind of androgynous streak was common in those long gone, uncomplicated days, before people penned themselves up in little encloures labeled, 'Male' and 'Female', and insisted on dressing their multitudinous brats in pink and blue, and..." I won't even go into the historical inaccuracies of this passage, but...
So... as other people have said above, I find that sort of style really difficult to believe in and/or read, and so it's a bit of a battle to keep going already (page 18/136 of my printed copy). But why do I find it hard to read that sort of thing? I'm wondering if it's because she's trying to tell us too much, as the author, she's not leaving enough room for our imaginations to take the words and soar with them, to fill in all the little corners that we do when we read. Reading is something of an outlet for our subconscious as much as anything else, I think, and I find that I do sort of imagine around what I'm reading as well as actually take in what's being described. But with Jane I think perhaps my subconscious isn't able to do that - she explains so much that as soon as my head starts to fill in the historical background to a statement, for example, with all the following layers and implications of it that create the larger picture of seeing/understanding our world/the story, it stumbles over her explaining that next part of the world for me, if you know what I mean, and then the next and the next. Suddenly my subconscious just doesn't want to continue, because it's kind of tiresome to be second guessed all the time...
And on that musing note, I have to head off to work, but I'll be taking Labyrinth with me on the bus, will see if I can get any further... *g*
no subject
Date: 2009-02-27 04:10 pm (UTC)I tried it a number of times -- if it hadn't been so strongly recced, I probably wouldn't have kept going. But I'm glad I did. Is it ever going to be on my favorites list, no. But I was vastly entertained by it.
There's what I think is a terrible tendency to make Bodie the oh-wise-one, and Doyle the fragile little muffin, for all she now and then says "but really he's very strong...": "Obviously, as he literally grew up under Bodie's nose, his attitudes were moderating. His hair, once kept so short, was allowed to grow... his clothes, instead of being tattered and scruffy were now sylish and soft". This just reeks to me, not of "feminising" Doyle, but of literally infantalising him.
The threatening to spank Doyle if he cuts his hair...yes. That's all eyebrow-raising.
And then she explains to us how the world works (again, rather as if we were children who needed the education):
She does tend to overexplain. That's for sure. Although...I've been reading Hostage to Peace by Wally, and that woman makes Jane appear to be the epitome of terse, uncommunicative, bare bones prose.
So... as other people have said above, I find that sort of style really difficult to believe in and/or read, and so it's a bit of a battle to keep going already (page 18/136 of my printed copy). But why do I find it hard to read that sort of thing?
As a writer I find it interesting to analyze because she was (is still, I suspect -- even if everyone isn't comfortable admitting it) enormously popular. So what is it about her that works for so many readers -- but doesn't always work for me? I think it's these unbiased discussions and analyses that help teach us our own craft.
no subject
Date: 2009-02-27 09:51 am (UTC)Well, we're on the same page so far - let's see how the rest pans out.
Personally, I think the fic goes on too long and, like much of Jane’s work, would have been better served by a good, stiff edit.
So to speak *g*. Yes, reading Jane is a little like driving along a dirt road in the bush after heavy rain - you're going fine, dodging the odd pothole and rock along the way; the scenery's nice; then you encounter a stretch that's all muddy, gooey clay and you're up to your axles, bogged down in the stuff. Please send in the road crews.
Labyrinth is built around a really nifty plot idea, and those parts of it that are to do with getting on with said plot work best for me.
People have commented that they hate the characterisation of Doyle - the odd thing for me here is that most of the mis-characterisation is Jane putting words and thoughts into other people's minds, rather than something that comes out of the way Doyle actually behaves. For example, early on Murphy thinks of Doyle as "Doyle looked like an abandoned waif on a blasted heath under a sky promising a thunderstorm. I simply can't imagine that he would look like that - so it's a pothole on the road for me. But for large swathes of the important parts of the story he is something like the Doyle I love, resourceful, intelligent and tough. OK, also terribly emo - but so's Bodie when he's "himself" rather than his dark counterpart (btw, one thing I like about this story is that it lets me indulge my fantasy rape kink relatively guilt-free). The climactic scenes are really good. The talky stuff at the end - not so much.
I haven't finished my re-read, so these are mostly just wayside thoughts/rememberings. But this is a Jane story I have read a couple of times and will likely do again, sometime in the future.
no subject
Date: 2009-02-27 02:32 pm (UTC)Just back from my lunchtime half hour of re-reading, and strangely enough it's again the mischaracterisation of Doyle in the fic that struck me. Jane ascribes certain thoughts and actions to him that suggest he's incredibly under-confident (which isn't the Doyle I see in the eps!), that he's always looking to Bodie for advice and wisdom (again not the Doyle I see in the eps) and that he needs looking after to the nth degree - when the Dutch guy (I don't dare take it out in the office here to check on it!) says that Doyle will be attacked by the other men in camp, especially the American and another one, Doyle's first response isn't that he'll kill them himself, that he can defend himself, etc etc, it's that Bodie will kill them if they do that. He considers it a foregone conclusion that the men will succeed in their rape, that he won't be able to fight off two of them - when we've seen Doyle take on worse odds than that in the eps, and win.
The author is also constantly (so far!) describing Doyle as small - physically very small and slight and fragile - and again, this is nothing like the Doyle I see on screen, who may have thin hips and legs, but has broad shoulders and a strong chest. He's maybe an inch shorter than Bodie - I know some people argue for more, but even saying he's a couple of inches shorter doesn't make him so small as to be an ineffective fighter. Conversely, Bodie seems to be portrayed as huge - Cowley says something like - if Bodie had really wanted to kill Doyle then Doyle and Murphy together could never have stopped him. I don't buy that characterisation of Bodie either - or the idea that he's so much more mature, and wise than Doyle is...
I really do think that they way they're both shown to act and think is what mischaracterises them for me. Parts of what I see as ep-them are still there, otherwise I couldn't read it at all, but...
(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2009-02-27 03:32 pm (UTC)Oh yes, great point. Much of how Doyle handles himself in the fantasy world is believably Doyle...although the lack of self-confidence (but I admit to bursting out laughing at the Bodie's right, I really must be a wash out in geography!). The way other folks see him...so ethereal and waifish and fragile as blown glass...
but so's Bodie when he's "himself" rather than his dark counterpart (btw, one thing I like about this story is that it lets me indulge my fantasy rape kink relatively guilt-free). The climactic scenes are really good. The talky stuff at the end - not so much.
Emotionally they're just over the top. I can't picture anyone -- male or female -- going on like this. But then I know that's part of the fun for some readers.
The twists and turns of plot -- the obstacles she throws in their way -- that inventiveness gets me every time.
no subject
Date: 2009-02-27 06:02 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2009-02-27 06:08 pm (UTC)I love that seeing Gandalf is the last link for Doyle to put it all together. It's obvious that Janes loved Star Wars because references to it often crop up in her stories.
Doyle's dilemma in trying to decide how long he can stay with Bodie before getting himself killed is rather poignant.
no subject
Date: 2009-02-27 07:18 pm (UTC)Yes, I find that middle section entertaining enough to compensate for the rest. I don't think there's another story out there like it, is there?
I love that seeing Gandalf is the last link for Doyle to put it all together. It's obvious that Janes loved Star Wars because references to it often crop up in her stories.
Star Wars, LOTR, certain favorites crop up again and again -- yes, and that Gandalf is the turning point just cracks me up. And I love the elves -- I love Jane being able to make fun of herself. Not something you see a lot.
Doyle's dilemma in trying to decide how long he can stay with Bodie before getting himself killed is rather poignant.
I agree. It's a realistic -- and touching -- dilemma. Realistic in the sense of the internal logic of the story.
(no subject)
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Date: 2009-02-27 06:27 pm (UTC)I'm normally not bothered by a protective Bodie, but in this story it crosses the border for me, probably because of Doyle being a veritable "pocket-pet", being so small and vulnerable and all.
And I really don't mind if Doyle is described as somewhat smaller than Bodie, because he *is* in my view, not so much when it comes to height, but more in width/weight.
Whenever I read a story where Bodie stays overnight at Doyle's and then just borrows a pair of Doyle's trousers, I wonder how the poor man is supposed to get into them. It doesn't mean Bodie is fat! They just have totally different body types, with Bodie being a lot more solidly built, especially around his thighs and middle.
What would be a good (or acceptable) word choice to describe this difference? I've seen people not liking slender as a description, and I just wonder how it could be said, without sending part of the readership off, because of the decsription.
Back to Labyrinth...
The whole set-up of the story just didn't grab me very much, and I couldn't quite suspend disbelief enough to forget reality.
The very first part worked best for me, with Doyle trying to figure out what had happened to Bodie.
Once Bodie was found and awake enough to talk, he never seemed to stop explaining and valuating (not sure if I have the word I'm really looking for) Doyle's feelings for him.
Bodie has all the power and sometimes sounds more like a father than a lover to me, with Doyle looking for approval from him.
Not the kind of relationship I get from canon, or want to see them in in fanfiction.
Excerpt from the end:
He acknowledged the enormous weight of responsibility that had settled on his shoulders without a qualm, lecturing himself sternly. The man who lay in his arms was a tough, strong, prickly little dynamo, but as vulnerable underneath his hard exterior as a kid, and he needed a lot of love. He was offering everything he had, his body, his love, his life, and Bodie knew that when he accepted those gifts he assumed the responsibility to cherish what he had. Hurt Ray, betray him, cause those haunted, haunting eyes to light up with pain, and he knew he would never forgive himself as long as he lived. But Ray had nothing to worry about on that score, Bodie knew as he closed his eyes and tried to pull the limp, sated body even closer.
no subject
Date: 2009-02-27 07:12 pm (UTC)I like the very first part. Certainly bits work well for me -- like when Murphy is describing Doyle's look of strain: "lines he had never noticed, lines that had not been there at all while Bodie was around."
Liked the touch of Doyle paying Bodie's electric bill -- sort of a insistence to himself that Bodie is going to make it back.
But a classic misstep is when Doyle instantly assumes Murphy means they are lovers because of the "better half" comment. They're NOT lovers, not in love, and it's unlikely he would jump to that meaning over the obvious teasing one.
Once Bodie was found and awake enough to talk, he never seemed to stop explaining and valuating (not sure if I have the word I'm really looking for) Doyle's feelings for him.
There are large sections of thinking about what they each feel and talking about what they each feel that just don't ring true.
Bodie has all the power and sometimes sounds more like a father than a lover to me, with Doyle looking for approval from him.
Not the kind of relationship I get from canon, or want to see them in in fanfiction.
No, when it goes off into that...it doesn't feel recognizably them. And of course generally what I need in a fic is to "see" them.
And what about those sex scenes?
Date: 2009-02-27 07:21 pm (UTC)She manages to work in TWO first times -- once in the fantasy world, once in the real world. She has a rape scene. There is a lot of sex in this story.
Any thoughts on that?
Re: And what about those sex scenes?
Date: 2009-02-27 08:06 pm (UTC)There's some more thoughts at the end of my comment below, but one thing that was fun was that because most of the sex was in Bodie's fantasy it was, well, more like great fantasy sex without the inconveniences of real life, which presumably helps to explain why they are *at it all the time*.
But what about Bodie and marriage? Esp. the Templar who wasn't going to let them sleep together if they weren't married (funniest scene of all). I presume this implies Bodie's deep-seated conservatism...
'TWO first times'. Brilliant, who's complaining?
Re: And what about those sex scenes?
From:no subject
Date: 2009-02-27 07:52 pm (UTC)The fun really started with the AU part. This was a road trip (in a gold Capri!), a quest story, and a soppy romance, all rolled into one.
I was worried that Doyle was too dependent on Bodie in the AU world, but the fight at the merc camp showed that he was capable of standing on his own feet and that was a turning point. As the journey progresses, Bodie becomes more a slave to his ‘dark side’, and Doyle becomes more and more in charge of proceedings. Finally, I was impressed by the scene in the depths of Bodie’s subconscious – once he loses consciousness, he no longer controls it and Doyle is almost sucked in through the portal. There he is very brave and fights Bodie’s demons for him. He doesn’t succeed in killing them all, though, and ends up succumbing. That seemed a bit regrettable, but then I realised that left it open for Bodie to charge in and finish off Thorkill/Schwerin himself without even a fight.
I know the premise is ridiculous, of two people occupying one person’s mind and acting consciously there, but I recently read a novel by Catherine Fisher, ‘Darkhenge’ (2005), which used exactly that idea. There a teenage girl in a coma after a riding accident is living in an AU Celtic myth world in her mind, and other characters close to her are able to join her there, through some vaguely mystical goings on.
The sex? I liked it a lot, it was well-written, but it did start to pall even for me after the 99th hot and sticky session. I even felt by the end Jane got a bit perfunctory and seemed to have run out of descriptive words. And a propos of the recent discussion about sex in Pros, this seems like a good example of the ‘anal intercourse is the ultimate attainment’ school of thought. But whenever I start to think critically about things like this in the story, I can find a justification. Here it was the opposition (in Bodie’s mind, repeatedly) of rape as the ultimate torture/degradation with the same act as the ultimate act of love, especially when he himself was the recipient.
no subject
Date: 2009-02-27 08:43 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2009-02-28 03:55 pm (UTC)Ten out of ten for imagination, mind. It is wild!! And it does make me want to try out a few more.
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Date: 2009-02-28 04:19 pm (UTC)I think Jane is so much discussed that she's worth reading for that alone. At least a fic or two.
I have to say I loved the start, just loved it - that opening scene with Doyle and Murphy is glorious. Doyle fretting - but not uncharacteristically so, Murphy being a cross between supportive, curious friend and agent on the job.. that whole bit in Bodie's flat was so well done. But then, as you said, it all got a bit heavy going, with too much repetetive pause-and-reflect, and too much pet/love for my tastes.
I really like the start -- so many nice touches. But...part of good writing is knowing when to stop.
And by the time we got to the elves I needed the road crews.
Have you read any of The Hunting? Well, no, probably not if you've put off reading Jane. It's funnier if you've read The Hunting. I imagine she was pretty much aware of some of the criticisms leveled at her even back then. *g*
Ten out of ten for imagination, mind. It is wild!! And it does make me want to try out a few more.
Yes, for sheer inventiveness...she was amazing. I love the fact that you were willing to try her out -- that's part of what makes these discussions fun: reading outside of what one normally prefers.
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Date: 2009-03-01 07:13 pm (UTC)I normally enjoy AUs, even crack!fic ones and I love fantasy. However, I do need to trust the author and I think this is my problem with Jane in this fic.
I got so exasperated with various flaws in the ‘real’ world - inconsistencies in the writing/ the timing of some events/ the American mindset etc. that by the time we reached the AU. I couldn’t suspend disbelief sufficiently. Especially because the mechanism of the brain transfer is never adequately dealt with, even in fantasy terms.
I know the following are niggles but they really add up and get to me as a reader: the metaphor of a brain through a shredder - in 1981?/ £20 on groceries for one man and he still needs more the next day - in 1981? (plus - a £20 note - most of us hadn’t even seen one then)/ GI Joe dolls in UK/ use of Mister instead of Mr. when the speaker isn’t being sarcastic / pineapple creams - wrapped - in Milk Tray/ use of ‘pet’ on a consistent basis when it isn’t much used outside certain dialects/ Bodie’s bare chest in hospital/ sending out for pizzas in 1981/ standard use of the term ‘bi’ in 1981/ pig-sticker for a cut-throat razor in UK. Later she has: tins of beer/ a little three litre engine/ the thought of anyone going to Niagara Falls from UK on honeymoon(1981)/ someone with £25K in 1981 needing to watch the pennies/ butter going off after a few days in hospital (I assume Doyle had a fridge).
Some of these are during the AU and after but what it all adds up to is that I keep wanting to shout at the author and I am not able to relax and immerse myself in the story. If she can’t get her UK research right, do I trust her with the characters and plot? Also, she eventually admits that gay sex isn’t illegal in UK in 1981 if between consenting adults in private, so why all the insistence on it being the stuff of blackmail? She doesn’t make us believe that. I also dislike the suggestion of ‘I’m not gay; I’m only gay for you’, and the assumption that to be gay means to sleep around.
Then when Martin Shaw is described as a Wild Irish Rose and as a faun I just fall about laughing, which destroys the atmosphere even further. Neither actor is over 6’ and there’s about a 2 - 3 inch difference between them - and they’re both taller than a lot of people around. In those days smaller men weren’t welcome in the police force so the ‘fey and fragile’ description makes even less sense. I wonder, honestly, if she ever saw the show. Did she maybe read some fic then mix up the guys with Starsky and Hutch? Even then, fragile is unlikely in a police officer... but at least there was a greater physical difference between that pair.
In fact, in both this and in The Hunting I wondered if what she really wanted to write was original m/m fantasy but felt she had to attach it to a fanfic premise to get any readers. I would think this would be a perfectly possible explanation at the time when she was writing these - I’m assuming they are pre-21st century.
If that’s the case, then yes, she has a good imagination and can write well, most of the time. ( I assume some of the errors in the text are due to the transfer from zine to screen.) Some of the writing is erotic - e.g. the first kiss - but it doesn’t read like B/D. However, there is too much repetition and too much anxiety to make sure her readers are following the characters’ reasoning. There is also an disconcerting change of point of view without warning within a section. Some hard editing and she’d write acceptable fic, but not, perhaps, fanfic, which demands some kind of adherence to canon.
So, altogether too many flaws to let me enjoy the story. But I thoroughly enjoyed having to analyse my thoughts!
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Date: 2009-03-01 08:26 pm (UTC)Hey, that's the best part of any discussion!
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