CI5 hq

Why "No Stone"? The only episode I wouldn't watch a second time (actually a third time) would be "Look after Annie" because I can't bear the ridiculous role Cowley is playing in it. But "No Stone"?

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Don't understand it either. Had to look it up because I wasn't quite sure about the content, but I don't get it. Because of Cookie's death? The hanging? Or what? :frowns:

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windrain10.livejournal.com

I love "Look After Annie", myself.

"No Stone" bothers me b/c of Cookie's death, June's tirade against Ray, the boy's hanging, the father who is more interested in money than his son, the bomb squad being killed at the end, the fact that June wants to kill their dog, the pure evil of Ulrike (I'm sure I spelled her name wrong).

Overall I find it a very gloomy episode. But since I've only watched it once, I guess I have no call to dislike it or like it. I should give it several watchings. But I probably will not.

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Lol - all the things you listed are what make me think No Stone is quite a good episode! Gloomy yes, but I like the truth of it - makes a refreshing change from the make-believe worlds where the bad guys Realise The Errors of Their Ways, and Everyone Loves the Heroes, who are Always Good, and Everything Turns Out Alright In The End... I like that greyness in Pros, I think it's that as much as anything else that's got me caught fast... so much scope for fic! *g*

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the make-believe worlds where the bad guys Realise The Errors of Their Ways, and Everyone Loves the Heroes, who are Always Good, and Everything Turns Out Alright In The End.

LOL! Are you trying to sum up the basics of the Great American Ideology?

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Heee! Who, me? *whistles innocently*

I was brought up on a diet of "The A-Team", "Knight Rider", "Dukes of Hazzard", and "Starsky and Hutch". Luckily I had "The Professionals", "The Sweeney" and "Minder" to even things out a bit! *g*

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windrain10.livejournal.com

Your point is well taken. Perhaps I would not be so gun-shy of this ep, if it had not been the last ep broadcast (IIRC). I didn't want gray at the end of Pros. That last scene, w/ the smoke rising into the air, makes me think that even CI5 didn't survive this operation, never mind Bodie & Doyle. It just seemed to go so wrong.

(I realize that I went OT on these posts about "No Stone", and I apologize for that to anyone who might be irritated w/ me.)

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Oh, not irritated, never irritated - I'm just always curious who sees what in the different episodes! And in fanfic, come to that. I love that there's such a variety of opinions about Pros, and I always want to hear more, whether I agree with them or not! (Presumably that means people don't agree with me too, and that's also cool!)

I don't remember the last ep broadcast, tbh, and if I did I would have been in another country at the time anyway, and not sure if they were broadcast in the same order. I guess I just always think of them as continuous individual episodes - so there's really no beginning or end of Pros, for me... *g*

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firlefanzine.livejournal.com

What's the problem with that story?
Never heard any 'mumblings' about it.
You like a story or not. But 'mumblings' ???

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see my answer in your messages.

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Ooh, interesting one! Definitely not at all romantic, and definitely mumbled about and inspiring of very strong emotions all around!

I had to read it again to see what I thought of it this time - third read - and I have to say that it's still the same parts that annoy me.

Unlike alot of people (I think) I don't have a problem with the premise of the story - that Bodie can subjugate his real feelings for Doyle, and only let them out by equating them with the violent "Game" of his mercenary days, with the result that he rapes Doyle. Okay, I don't like the idea that Bodie's capable of rape any more than I like the (canon) idea that he's capable of overt racism, but the authors actually convince me that it's possible, in a particular characterisation of Bodie. I think this is one of those fics where you have to be able to stretch your own view of both lads though, realise that they're quite probably not going to be the lads that you want them to be.

I can go with Doyle's reactions too - his shock at first, then the anger and violence, then the collapse. Surprisingly, perhaps, I can even go with his subsequent arousal in Bodie's arms - he was very drunk, with the subsequent loss of memory that can bring, by the time he did remember his body had already reacted to Bodie's caresses - no less rape than the first time, actually. And I can stretch his character to being sexually responsive too, especially if I think that he and Bodie already had a strong relationship and didn't realise it, so that he might well be subconsciously emotionally conflicted about Bodie. There are so many factors to take into consideration, regarding rape by someone known to you that it's almost impossible to say "someone would never"... So I can see Doyle being emotionally ambivalent about Bodie, in some ways - especially as the authors do show that ambivalence.

What I don't quite see is Doyle giving his resignation and accepting the fact that he's "not allowed" to resign - that makes no sense to me! In fact Cowley's brusque manner about it - without further explanation - makes little sense to me. But Doyle going home meekly to where Bodie is after his escape route is closed, and saying "Cowley won't let me" in a "choked" voice? That sounds much too far from my Doyle for me to accept. With the temper that we know Doyle has - and he's exhibited it before in the fic - why would he then show such lack of power to his rapist? He'd either determine to get out anyway, or he'd at least not admit that he'd tried to leave in the first place. If he's being cunning about it - as the authors suggest at the end - then what he does here totally negates that cunning and plays into his rapist's hands.

It's as if, to me, the authors had done a fair job of justifying the various reactions but then got bored with the whole thing and stopped dealing with it. I guess I kind of want this to be a novel-length fic that goes into things much more deeply - because I can see so much of it happening, at a stretch of characterisation, but if I'm making the effort to stretch that far then I want it all dealt with properly - fully!

The one sequel to this that I have liked, for the way it picks up on Doyle's determination to take the upper hand (using his anger to deal with the rape) and on Bodie's unwilling remorse for the whole situation, and therefore allowing a sort of (probably still very unhealthy!) reconciliation between them, is Lezlie Conch's "Wrapped Around Your Finger"...

Edited Date: 2008-05-25 03:32 pm (UTC)

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"Unlike alot of people (I think) I don't have a problem with the premise of the story - that Bodie can subjugate his real feelings for Doyle, and only let them out by equating them with the violent "Game" of his mercenary days, with the result that he rapes Doyle."

If we accept the possibility of "The Game" - which I do because I've heard of it from outside Pros sources before - I do think the possibility of something like that happening relatively likely. Rape isn't just rape in every instance. There are grades and varieties in motive as well as in execution like with every other action humans take.

"Okay, I don't like the idea that Bodie's capable of rape any more than I like the (canon) idea that he's capable of overt racism, but the authors actually convince me that it's possible, in a particular characterisation of Bodie. I think this is one of those fics where you have to be able to stretch your own view of both lads though, realise that they're quite probably not going to be the lads that you want them to be."

I don't have any problems with either characterisation. I never had a idealised view of them, I suppose. Bodie being racist seems very much possible to me after his stay in Africa.

I have a friend who started out as a non-racist humanitarian and came back an overt racist after a two year stay in Nigeria. Such things happen. I don't think she's a bad person because of that.

To be perfectly clear: I don't think it's a fine and dandy thing to be a racist, but I don't think it makes you the devil incarnate either. I think it's a human flaw. I have many of those myself so I won't throw the first stone here.

Same with Bodie being a rapist. I don't think he would necessarily rape a woman, because he's confident of his own role in a heterosexual relationship. But being confused by his own emotions, not willing to admit to having tender feelings for another male and acting out of that turmoil in the only way he can accept m/m sex? Abslutely probable, imo.

"I can go with Doyle's reactions too - his shock at first, then the anger and violence, then the collapse. Surprisingly, perhaps, I can even go with his subsequent arousal in Bodie's arms - he was very drunk, with the subsequent loss of memory that can bring, by the time he did remember his body had already reacted to Bodie's caresses - no less rape than the first time, actually. And I can stretch his character to being sexually responsive too, especially if I think that he and Bodie already had a strong relationship and didn't realise it"

Absolutely. That's why I call it a 'lovestory turned wrong', because I absolutely see them as having been on the brink of something, having been in love/lust with each other subconsciously and sadly having missed the point in time to act on it the way they could have.

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kiwisue.livejournal.com

Unlike alot of people (I think) I don't have a problem with the premise of the story - that Bodie can subjugate his real feelings for Doyle, and only let them out by equating them with the violent "Game" of his mercenary days, with the result that he rapes Doyle. Okay, I don't like the idea that Bodie's capable of rape any more than I like the (canon) idea that he's capable of overt racism, but the authors actually convince me that it's possible, in a particular characterisation of Bodie. I think this is one of those fics where you have to be able to stretch your own view of both lads though, realise that they're quite probably not going to be the lads that you want them to be.

I'm happy to stretch my idea of the Lads - I get more good writing that way *g*.

Seriously, I think that the idea of an OTP story involving rape is something that is cross-fandom. And I don't have a problem with it per se although I know lots of people who do and respect their desire to stay well clear. The idea of one character sexually mastering the other is a huge turn-on for some, TBH (and I'm not immune to the attraction). I do like these guys to keep the books balanced though, so I definitely go with "Wrapped around your Finger" as my favourite sequel.

I think my main problem with 'Consequences' is that the shift between first author POV and the second resulted in a patch-up job. I agree with what you & intheyear2004 have said about the interaction between Doyle and Cowley. Also I think the first author did a fairly weak job of convincing me that Bodie would rape, under the circumstances. It's too sudden for one thing, alcohol or Doyle's weakness aside.

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"What I don't quite see is Doyle giving his resignation and accepting the fact that he's "not allowed" to resign - that makes no sense to me! In fact Cowley's brusque manner about it - without further explanation - makes little sense to me. But Doyle going home meekly to where Bodie is after his escape route is closed, and saying "Cowley won't let me" in a "choked" voice? That sounds much too far from my Doyle for me to accept."

I agree with you. This is a weak point in the story, sadly. Doyle's as well as Cowley's actions and reactions don't convince me either.

"With the temper that we know Doyle has - and he's exhibited it before in the fic - why would he then show such lack of power to his rapist? He'd either determine to get out anyway, or he'd at least not admit that he'd tried to leave in the first place. If he's being cunning about it - as the authors suggest at the end - then what he does here totally negates that cunning and plays into his rapist's hands."

Yeah, well, getting out and away would of course be anyone's first plan of action. And while I don't buy neither Doyle's meek acceptance of Cowley's refusal to let him go nor Cowley's disinterest in knowing what made him resign in the first place, I do accept his succumbing to Bodie after his flight plan has been thwarted. You can hate someone and still be sexually attracted to them and I don't think he really hates Bodie in the first place.

"I guess I kind of want this to be a novel-length fic that goes into things much more deeply - because I can see so much of it happening, at a stretch of characterisation, but if I'm making the effort to stretch that far then I want it all dealt with properly - fully!"

That would of course have been far better. I almost always prefer novel length to anything shorter! :speakstheglutton:

"The one sequel to this that I have liked, for the way it picks up on Doyle's determination to take the upper hand (using his anger to deal with the rape) and on Bodie's unwilling remorse for the whole situation, and therefore allowing a sort of (probably still very unhealthy!) reconciliation between them, is Lezlie Conch's "Wrapped Around Your Finger"..."

For me it's the best of the lot as well although I'm still not really satisfied with it.

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You've heard of "The Game" from outside Pros? Now I thought it was a particularly Pros invention, so I'd love to know more about this! I know there was a documentary about mercs in Angola at around the time "Consequences" was apparently written, which alluded to various happenings amongst mercs, but I don't know enough about it at all! Where did you hear about it? What's the story?!

Rape isn't just rape in every instance.
Well, I'm not sure I can agree with this the way you've worded it, but I hope I know what you mean! Rape is always rape - no is no, whether it's worded or even silently communicated. But you're right that motivations are alot more complicated than "just" I'm showing that I have power over you, and that's what I think's happening here with Bodie. It's most certainly not just a "human flaw", and I think it's much too easy to excuse things like racism by saying it's a "human flaw" - that implies there's no control over it, whereas we can quite easily think Is what I'm about to say stereotyping people I don't know? Is it mean-spirited? Then I shouldn't say it.... I don't see the difference, either, in raping a man rather than a woman - again, rape is rape. But the multitude of motivations are still there and have to be taken into consideration - they're possibly just somewhat different. Much easier to say "Rape is a bad thing and we shouldnt' talk about it - and certainly shouldn't make excuses for the rapist..." But it's not that simple.

I do like the idea of your "love story gone wrong" - I can see that happening. (But then I read death fic without complaining too... *g*) That's the trouble with love, and with people - both go wrong so very easily, with just the wrong word heard, the wrong moment noticed. Then it's all about working through your world until it's reconciled with what happened - and there has to be some sort of reconciliation, whether it's leaving a sinking ship, or fixing it.

I don't think he really hates Bodie in the first place.
No, and for me that's what holds this story together and makes it interesting. Bodie doesn't just want power over Doyle when he rapes him, Doyle doesn't completely hate all that Bodie is, despite what he did. There's such potential there for an interesting (if not comfortable!) story! I want to know how they get around it, how they resolve things - even if they separated as a result, how did they then live with it? Betrayal is such a strong, interesting thing... I'm quite fascinated by it, I'm afraid!

Edited Date: 2008-05-25 10:07 pm (UTC)

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"You've heard of "The Game" from outside Pros? Now I thought it was a particularly Pros invention, so I'd love to know more about this! I know there was a documentary about mercs in Angola at around the time "Consequences" was apparently written, which alluded to various happenings amongst mercs, but I don't know enough about it at all! Where did you hear about it? What's the story?!"

I've heard of it IRL. I myself am a couch potatoe who never travels abroad, but I know a lot of fascinating people who do. This was told to me by someone out of the Foreign Legion, if I remember correctly.

"Rape isn't just rape in every instance. Well, I'm not sure I can agree with this the way you've worded it, but I hope I know what you mean! Rape is always rape - no is no, whether it's worded or even silently communicated. But you're right that motivations are alot more complicated than "just" I'm showing that I have power over you, and that's what I think's happening here with Bodie."

But Bodie doesn't rape Doyle to show him he has power over him, imo. He does because he suddenly feels sexually attracted to Doyle which comes out of left field when he first consciously notes it and he can't handle it. His only previous experience with m/m sex is the game and so he reverts to this prior conditioning in his reaction to this sudden stirring.

"It's most certainly not just a "human flaw", and I think it's much too easy to excuse things like racism by saying it's a "human flaw" - that implies there's no control over it, whereas we can quite easily think Is what I'm about to say stereotyping people I don't know? Is it mean-spirited? Then I shouldn't say it...."

Yeah, well, my friend is the one with the African experiences, not me. I can hardly argue against what she experienced in day to day life in Africa. She started out believing that we're all equal and everybody just needs a chance and went to Nigeria quite the humanist and came back embittered, angry and convinced that "negroes are stupid and nothing we do to help can ever change that fact" (her words). Another acquaintance of mine, an international businessman, told me he thinks Africa is a lost continent. I haven't been there. I'm afraid my judgment is pending until I've seen it for myself (which is unlikely to happen). But I will surely not say that their experiences and opinions are invalid (at least for themselves).

"I don't see the difference, either, in raping a man rather than a woman - again, rape is rape."

Well, that is the PC feminist take on things which I personally find rather simplistic and, sorry, don't share. With a woman Bodie would probably not even think of rape - as I explained earlier - because he has no reason to. If a woman says no, I'm convinced Bodie is perfectly capable of respecting that (although it probably seldom happened, the no, I mean). With women he has not this past experience of power play and fighting. So, there is nothing there to confuse him and taint his natural reactions.

"But the multitude of motivations are still there and have to be taken into consideration - they're possibly just somewhat different. Much easier to say "Rape is a bad thing and we shouldnt' talk about it - and certainly shouldn't make excuses for the rapist..." But it's not that simple."

If we start judging on generalisations, we will soon be again in a place where we hang children (like in the middle ages) for stealing food when all they did was being hungry and providing for themselves with whatever means they could. Motive is always a factor, imo. "The" factor, perhaps.

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"I do like the idea of your "love story gone wrong" - I can see that happening. (But then I read death fic without complaining too... *g*)"

I read In Balance With This Life last night and loved it! Thanks for the rec, btw. Definitely romantic and a wonderful death fic for my collection!

"That's the trouble with love, and with people - both go wrong so very easily, with just the wrong word heard, the wrong moment noticed. Then it's all about working through your world until it's reconciled with what happened - and there has to be some sort of reconciliation, whether it's leaving a sinking ship, or fixing it."

And sometimes that's not even possible. I personally foresee something going very wrong in their working life, if they're forced to stay together as a team in this situation. This event is likely to get them both killed, I think.

"I don't think he really hates Bodie in the first place.
No, and for me that's what holds this story together and makes it interesting. Bodie doesn't just want power over Doyle when he rapes him, Doyle doesn't completely hate all that Bodie is, despite what he did. There's such potential there for an interesting (if not comfortable!) story! I want to know how they get around it, how they resolve things - even if they separated as a result, how did they then live with it? Betrayal is such a strong, interesting thing... I'm quite fascinated by it, I'm afraid!"

Yeah, well, nothing to be afraid of, I think. If we were fascinated by rainbows and fluffy kittens we would be in the My Little Pony fandom, I suppose.

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But Bodie doesn't rape Doyle to show him he has power over him, imo.
Yes, I thought that was what I'd just said - sorry, I must try and be more clear.

"negroes are stupid and nothing we do to help can ever change that fact" (her words)
For me, the racism in a statement like this comes from the fact that she appears to be taking an experience she had with a limited number of people - who may well have been "stupid" in some way (!) - and using it to generalise about millions of other completely different people. "Stupidity" is another thing that is very subjective - she apparently had a different thought process to the people she was interacting with, whether either of them should be calling the other "stupid" is something completely different. A bad experience is a bad experience (as perhaps Bodie had in Africa) - but letting it be your basis for judging everyone else in the world is where the idea of "racism" comes in.

Well, that is the PC feminist take on things
No, that is my personal, thought-out take on things, arrived at via experience and talking with other people. Simplistic is lumping such ideas and thoughts as "PC feminist". I'm sorry if that sounds blunt, but that sort of blanket dismissive statement really annoys me. I don't mind at all that we have different opinions, but let's discuss it with clear respect for each other, and without stereotyping/generalising about each other?

If we were fascinated by rainbows and fluffy kittens we would be in the My Little Pony fandom, I suppose.
Lol - well, there are plenty of people in Pros who prefer the softer side of fic, and that's their prerogative! I'd go so far as to say we were in the minority liking deathfic, partner-rape stories and the idea of betrayal as a theme - and that's fine, I'm happy with it. The "I'm afraid" was more a convention of phrase than an actual apology for my tastes - tone is so hard to get across via lj comments etc, sometimes!

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"negroes are stupid and nothing we do to help can ever change that fact" (her words)
For me, the racism in a statement like this comes from the fact that she appears to be taking an experience she had with a limited number of people - who may well have been "stupid" in some way (!) - and using it to generalise about millions of other completely different people. "Stupidity" is another thing that is very subjective - she apparently had a different thought process to the people she was interacting with, whether either of them should be calling the other "stupid" is something completely different. A bad experience is a bad experience (as perhaps Bodie had in Africa) - but letting it be your basis for judging everyone else in the world is where the idea of "racism" comes in."

I hear you. But unfortunately we can only make up our opinions from what we have experienced which is naturally a limited number of events. And I don't think that her extreme take invalidates her experiences which have been harsh. So, what I think here is that, even if I don't share her opinion, I can see how and why she arrived at it. And the same is true for Bodie (although in his case I can only imagine).

"Well, that is the PC feminist take on things
No, that is my personal, thought-out take on things, arrived at via experience and talking with other people. Simplistic is lumping such ideas and thoughts as "PC feminist". I'm sorry if that sounds blunt, but that sort of blanket dismissive statement really annoys me. I don't mind at all that we have different opinions, but let's discuss it with clear respect for each other, and without stereotyping/generalising about each other?"

Okay. But I still think that your well thought out opinion happens to be the same as the usual PC feminist take, which I neither share nor really respect because for me it's just spouting off half-digested platitudes. And "Rape is always rape - no is no, whether it's worded or even silently communicated." which you said earlier is a blanket statement as well. There may well exist miscommunications and other things to cloud ones judgment. I do think it really annoying that feminists get away with blanket statements and generalisations while others get called to the carpet because of that. One isn't right just by being feminine or wrong just by being masculine which is often what I read out of statements like that.

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One isn't right just by being feminine or wrong just by being masculine which is often what I read out of statements like that.
Well no, and I certainly didn't say that and never would - you're generalising about me just as your friend generalised about "negroes". As you say, you've absolutely read that into what I said, rather than presuming that I have a brain, experiences and opinions of my own. I don't need to "spout half-digested platitudes", and what I said above was neither half-digested, nor a platitude! Since you don't know me - and this is one of the dangers of internet communication, of course - I don't think you can presume to accurately read anything out of statements that I might make. You can certainly suggest something, and I can confirm, deny or explain it - that, to me, is discussion. Insulting the basis of someone's opinions isn't!

And "Rape is always rape - no is no, whether it's worded or even silently communicated." which you said earlier is a blanket statement as well
Only in the same way that "apples are fruit" is a blanket statement. Sure, you might get a plastic apple, which is pretending to be fruit in a very specific context, just as you might get consenting adults pretending to rape each other - but the key there is the very specific context. We've already discussed, and I think agreed, that every rape is an individual event, with motivations, reactions and consequences that depend on those involved's specific context. But the actual definition of rape does not depend on those motivations, reactions and consequences.

What you appear to be saying though is that "no" shouldn't always stop someone having sex with someone else? Because sometimes there are other reasons for doing so?

I do think it really annoying that feminists get away with blanket statements and generalisations while others get called to the carpet because of that.
I don't think anyone should get away with blanket statements or generalisations - but the key often lies in recognising what is a blanket statement/generalisation in the first place...

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It's so typical that in such discussions the opposite always ever cites - quite out of context - only what seems fitting for a quick refute. Here you're taking out of context what I said about rape to make it "What you appear to be saying though is that "no" shouldn't always stop someone having sex with someone else? Because sometimes there are other reasons for doing so?"

What I meant and am quite sure I said was, "Rape isn't just rape in every instance. There are grades and varieties in motive as well as in execution like with every other action humans take." Meaning that there can be mitigating circumstances like miscommunications etc. Only because a woman thinks she is raped her reality mustn't be the same for the man who thinks they're having consensual sex.

"Only in the same way that "apples are fruit" is a blanket statement."

This is pure sophism, imo, and doesn't bring us any further. Sorry, but I *do* think you're a victim of PC-ness and copying popular opinions however much you may have thought about them. That you have thought about them and come to the same conclusions doesn't make them any less conforming to popular feminist beliefs and PCness.

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Okay, I shall try again.

What I meant and am quite sure I said was, "Rape isn't just rape in every instance. There are grades and varieties in motive as well as in execution like with every other action humans take."

In the context that what I had said, and what you were responding to, was the idea that "no always means no" - this looks to me as if you're saying that sometimes the other person can hear the word "no" during sex with a partner, disregard it for some reason ("grade... variety in motive"), and that makes the act more acceptable?

I'm happy to be told what you really mean if I'm interpreting you incorrectly.

I've already said that I agree with you that there are many motivations, reactions and consequences to rape - in fact I was the one who brought that up in my original comment! - but that, as far as I was concerned, is a separate thing to whether "no means no" in the first place. Like two completely separate steps, if you like. Perhaps you're thinking differently?

The debate regarding dissemination vs independent invention is something far too complicated to get into here (or at least more so than I'm prepared to do!) - I obviously come down for the possibility of independent invention, and I'd guess you're more of a believer in dissemination!

I am sorry if my argument was confusing for you - I certainly don't see it as "sophism" in that sense.

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I digress: what about "Chameleon Dish" by Kitty Fisher? Still more unpalatable for weaks of the heart, and not much more plausible, but much better set up and developed, I think.

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I'll have to re-read this one - it's been a long time since I did.... To answer your comment down below though, I thought "Consequences" was set up in a way which was believable for me. Sometimes you do make sudden jumps in your thoughts from one thing to another, strange associations, and I thought the authors justified that by describing Bodie's conflict about being gay - it was actually quite a deep psychological reaction to something that had perhaps disturbed him for a long time, but then he had to reconcile it with the world he lived in now. I didn't find it sudden or implausible at all - but that maybe because I've read it more than once now! I think it's a story that bears reading more than once - my reaction to it now is alot more complex than my original reaction, which was that I didn't like it at all!

Another one is perhaps "Feasting With Panthers" by Kitty Fisher, which I adore, up to and including the ending. *g*

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probodie.livejournal.com

I'm afraid I absolutely hate this story. I hate her Bodie and Doyle, she writes them exactly how I DONT see them. I dont know what show she was watching, or even if she'd seen the show, but it certainly is not my boys.

Bodie has a protective streak a mile wide when it comes to Doyle. Why on earth would he rape him????

Ack. If I never ever read this fic again it would be way way way too soon.

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sc-fossil.livejournal.com

One of those 'me too'! posts. Hated it. Ick.

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I was curious about this story because of the many heated discussions it stirs every time it is mentioned, so I seized the opportunity to judge by myself. But I didn't go further than the beginning of the rape scene. I wasn't especially shocked, I was laughing. From a literary point of view, this first part is very weak. The author doesn't succeed in making us accepting the premises: the sudden change of mood in Bodie's mind (without the least transition) is unexplained and unexplainable, Doyle, who was supposed to be dead drunk and knocked down unconscious, recovers in a split second and becomes at once able to move and perfectly articulate in his protests. If Bodie could have, maybe, once played something like "The Game" (not impossible "per se"), it was in another time, another world, another life. No connection with the present life of Bodie in CI5 world and the author does nothing to convince us there is a connection. The mixing of the two worlds is contrary of everything we know about human psychology. This story doesn't deserve its fame, methinks.

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smirra.livejournal.com

I've read "The blue Figurine" lately and I need a bit of time for any other that "unromantic" piece but I'll give it a try soon. Did you join the pros lit list on yahoo? There was a discussion about "Consequences" lately. You might enjoy the discussions there.

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