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ci5hqSlightly later than scheduled, but its a gorgeous weekend here, and there's not usually many comments until late Sunday anyway (and Monday morning, when I'm back at work!), so I let myself be lazy (or not-lazy, as I've been out in the garden and cleaning and things!)
So - Chapters 26 to 30 today. We left our lads basically reunited, with Doyle living at Bodie's again and attending Repton a couple of times a week. He's also working on a computer course with one of the - female, Bodie notes - computer technicians, and Bodie continues work confined to HQ and Doyle's side.
But that's not really what the story's about in these chapters, this part of the story is mostly about the lads finally getting together in bed - kisses and cuddles, and bringing each other off, and Bodie exploring to see how far he can go with Doyle. It turns out not very far - Doyle is "digusted" when Bodie is too focused on Doyle's arse, and on what he might do with it, and eventually Bodie gets him to confess that Albert Kingsley not only sexually assaulted him in jail, but tied him down and raped him (as well as he was able).
When Bodie clearly wants Doyle to penetrate him with his fingers, Doyle can't believe that it would be pleasurable to the point that he tries to refuse on the grounds that he doesn't want to hurt Bodie, and he knows it always hurts. Bodie explains that it doesn't have to, if you're careful and use vaseline, but Doyle remains reluctant. Finally Bodie insists to the point that Doyle tries to give him what he says he wants - but in the heat of the moment he forgets about the vaseline, and Bodie ends up in pain, furious, accusing Doyle of hurting him on purpose.
On top of all that, Doyle has been told he can't have his gun back, and worked out that it's because he's still not considered psychologically stable enough - and he realises that Bodie has begun hiding his own gun when he gets home at night, and has got rid of the emergency guns he keeps at home. Doyle confronts him about it, Bodie, still angry, snaps further, accuses Doyle of being a selfish bastard, and storms out.
Bodie spends the night at HQ, where Cowley finds him, realises something is wrong between his team, and sends Bodie off on a long undercover op. Doyle only finds out through the other agents, and sets himself to be patient until Bodie gets back and to try and continue his recovery. He runs the computer course with Ann-Marie, joins the CI5 shooting team and the darts team at the Brewers pub, where he's still using this criminal persona, and finally heads off to be assessed by Macklin - who passes him as fit, and notes that he's angry and seems to have become "harder".
Finally, the time Doyle's been spending at the Brewers pays off, as the landlord says he knows someone who might have some work for him. It turns out to be someone called Twigg. Doyle duly reports to Cowley, who had actually sent Bodie off to infiltrate Ferris and Twigg, and Cowley sets Doyle off on the case too. We leave him running for a phone box...
ETA - Except that we don't leave him, because that wasn't the end of Chapter Thirty (I don't know what's happening to my printing these days!)
In Chapter Thirty, we get into the ep Spy Probe, and when Bodie is told to kill Doyle - who's been captured by Ferris and Twig - we find out that he's still mad enough at him that he keeps him worrying to the last millisecond that Caine is going to do it. Bodie thinks Caine doesn't have the stomach, and saving Doyle won't be a problem - but it turns out that Caine will kill Doyle if he doesn't have to, and it's only because Doyle faints with the worry of it that his life is saved when he drops to the ground and the bullet misses.
Caine of course is really Williams from MI6, as in the ep, and they all head back to CI5, where things are starting to become clear for Cowley. Doyle is dismissed to see the various doctors, while Bodie and Williams are debriefed. He meets up with the shooting team, and invites them back to the flat - Bodie's flat - then bumps into Cowley who explains that there's a leak in MI6, which is how he was rumbled. Bodie and Williams are off wrapping things up, and should be finished in another day or so. So Doyle goes home and gets drunk with the lads, who pour him into bed and don't quite hear him say that he likes to have sex with Bodie. He's up the next morning in time for his appointments.
I'm still not seeing "my" ep-based Doyle anywhere in these chapters. We have a Doyle who can only say that Bodie's chest is "different" - he can't even bring himself to say that Bodie's not got a hairy chest, he goes all coy; who leaves all the running up to Bodie as far as everything goes in their relationship and their work; who doesn't think about Bodie's needs at all in the selfish pursuit of his own; and who can't work out for ages why he's not trusted with a gun after he tried to escape from the Beeches with one in his hand (to be honest I can't work out how he was allowed back into CI5 at all after that, but hey-ho...). Bodie tells him he loves him, but Doyle apparently doesn't think to say it back. Oh, and he couldn't even get the focus right on the camera when he was taking pictures of a suspect, which is one reason why that suspect is able to walk free from court - a court case at which Doyle isn't considered alert enough to testify. I know there were lots more bits that niggled me, especially as all this is still set up against Bodie's absolute competence at the job and understanding and patience when with Doyle, but that's no doubt enough for now!
ETA - no it's not! Chapter Thirty turns out to give us bonus Fainting Doyle, and bonus Tight Doyle who Never Pays for Things. What?! Doyle did not faint in Spy Probe that's been made out of whole cloth. Nor is Doyle tight in the episodes - I've busted this myth before with a list of eps where he pays for things, compared to when Bodie doesn/t!
What I'm wondering is where in the episodes Rob found this possible Doyle. Okay, in Long Shot we see Bodie being the know-all about how to pick up Susie, the new agent, but really that's more because Bodie's "found out about her" and is letting Doyle make a move on her as part of his own plan to date her. I don't think we see much more even of that - in Killer with a Long Arm Doyle is teasing Bodie - and Cowley - about "sharing the same secretary", and in Female Factor he seems perfectly comfortable with his date - and with Bodie making out with his own date on Doyle's sofa. So where is this coy, shy Doyle from?
And the very first ep, Old Dog with New Tricks, it's Doyle telling Bodie where Cowley injured his leg, and wincing as Bodie says something thoughtless to Cowley, and it's Bodie who's skipping to catch up with a teasing Doyle at the end of the ep. It's Doyle who teases Freddy on CI5 security in Long Shot, and who teases Bodie to Cowley about having a dirty weekend lined up. Bodie gets his own back with the NAAFI canteen tease, but - they're equals in this, as in everything. They may have their differences - Doyle knows which Greek restauranter will give them the information they need, and how to get it from him, and Bodie knows more about sniper guns - but they're equals.
And neither of them are perfectly sensitive (Doyle is needlessly aggressive to Paula in Female Factor, and Bodie needlessly aggressive to women in Close Quarters) - but neither of them are completely selfish bastards either (Doyle tries to help Bodie in MWaP, and of course Bodie helps Doyle in WtHCO, both among many other examples).
So where is Rob getting the threads of character that she's using in the story? Anyone got any ideas? (And bearing in mind she was writing at a time when she would probably have had to either remember the eps., or watch versions on videotape if she had a video player - according to Dave Matthews site there were official Pros videos around in the 1980s). Of course we all bring our own bits and pieces to the lads characters, to fit in with the stories we're writing, but - where might it all have come from for WtF?
What d'you/did you think? *g*
So - Chapters 26 to 30 today. We left our lads basically reunited, with Doyle living at Bodie's again and attending Repton a couple of times a week. He's also working on a computer course with one of the - female, Bodie notes - computer technicians, and Bodie continues work confined to HQ and Doyle's side.
But that's not really what the story's about in these chapters, this part of the story is mostly about the lads finally getting together in bed - kisses and cuddles, and bringing each other off, and Bodie exploring to see how far he can go with Doyle. It turns out not very far - Doyle is "digusted" when Bodie is too focused on Doyle's arse, and on what he might do with it, and eventually Bodie gets him to confess that Albert Kingsley not only sexually assaulted him in jail, but tied him down and raped him (as well as he was able).
When Bodie clearly wants Doyle to penetrate him with his fingers, Doyle can't believe that it would be pleasurable to the point that he tries to refuse on the grounds that he doesn't want to hurt Bodie, and he knows it always hurts. Bodie explains that it doesn't have to, if you're careful and use vaseline, but Doyle remains reluctant. Finally Bodie insists to the point that Doyle tries to give him what he says he wants - but in the heat of the moment he forgets about the vaseline, and Bodie ends up in pain, furious, accusing Doyle of hurting him on purpose.
On top of all that, Doyle has been told he can't have his gun back, and worked out that it's because he's still not considered psychologically stable enough - and he realises that Bodie has begun hiding his own gun when he gets home at night, and has got rid of the emergency guns he keeps at home. Doyle confronts him about it, Bodie, still angry, snaps further, accuses Doyle of being a selfish bastard, and storms out.
Bodie spends the night at HQ, where Cowley finds him, realises something is wrong between his team, and sends Bodie off on a long undercover op. Doyle only finds out through the other agents, and sets himself to be patient until Bodie gets back and to try and continue his recovery. He runs the computer course with Ann-Marie, joins the CI5 shooting team and the darts team at the Brewers pub, where he's still using this criminal persona, and finally heads off to be assessed by Macklin - who passes him as fit, and notes that he's angry and seems to have become "harder".
Finally, the time Doyle's been spending at the Brewers pays off, as the landlord says he knows someone who might have some work for him. It turns out to be someone called Twigg. Doyle duly reports to Cowley, who had actually sent Bodie off to infiltrate Ferris and Twigg, and Cowley sets Doyle off on the case too. We leave him running for a phone box...
ETA - Except that we don't leave him, because that wasn't the end of Chapter Thirty (I don't know what's happening to my printing these days!)
In Chapter Thirty, we get into the ep Spy Probe, and when Bodie is told to kill Doyle - who's been captured by Ferris and Twig - we find out that he's still mad enough at him that he keeps him worrying to the last millisecond that Caine is going to do it. Bodie thinks Caine doesn't have the stomach, and saving Doyle won't be a problem - but it turns out that Caine will kill Doyle if he doesn't have to, and it's only because Doyle faints with the worry of it that his life is saved when he drops to the ground and the bullet misses.
Caine of course is really Williams from MI6, as in the ep, and they all head back to CI5, where things are starting to become clear for Cowley. Doyle is dismissed to see the various doctors, while Bodie and Williams are debriefed. He meets up with the shooting team, and invites them back to the flat - Bodie's flat - then bumps into Cowley who explains that there's a leak in MI6, which is how he was rumbled. Bodie and Williams are off wrapping things up, and should be finished in another day or so. So Doyle goes home and gets drunk with the lads, who pour him into bed and don't quite hear him say that he likes to have sex with Bodie. He's up the next morning in time for his appointments.
I'm still not seeing "my" ep-based Doyle anywhere in these chapters. We have a Doyle who can only say that Bodie's chest is "different" - he can't even bring himself to say that Bodie's not got a hairy chest, he goes all coy; who leaves all the running up to Bodie as far as everything goes in their relationship and their work; who doesn't think about Bodie's needs at all in the selfish pursuit of his own; and who can't work out for ages why he's not trusted with a gun after he tried to escape from the Beeches with one in his hand (to be honest I can't work out how he was allowed back into CI5 at all after that, but hey-ho...). Bodie tells him he loves him, but Doyle apparently doesn't think to say it back. Oh, and he couldn't even get the focus right on the camera when he was taking pictures of a suspect, which is one reason why that suspect is able to walk free from court - a court case at which Doyle isn't considered alert enough to testify. I know there were lots more bits that niggled me, especially as all this is still set up against Bodie's absolute competence at the job and understanding and patience when with Doyle, but that's no doubt enough for now!
ETA - no it's not! Chapter Thirty turns out to give us bonus Fainting Doyle, and bonus Tight Doyle who Never Pays for Things. What?! Doyle did not faint in Spy Probe that's been made out of whole cloth. Nor is Doyle tight in the episodes - I've busted this myth before with a list of eps where he pays for things, compared to when Bodie doesn/t!
What I'm wondering is where in the episodes Rob found this possible Doyle. Okay, in Long Shot we see Bodie being the know-all about how to pick up Susie, the new agent, but really that's more because Bodie's "found out about her" and is letting Doyle make a move on her as part of his own plan to date her. I don't think we see much more even of that - in Killer with a Long Arm Doyle is teasing Bodie - and Cowley - about "sharing the same secretary", and in Female Factor he seems perfectly comfortable with his date - and with Bodie making out with his own date on Doyle's sofa. So where is this coy, shy Doyle from?
And the very first ep, Old Dog with New Tricks, it's Doyle telling Bodie where Cowley injured his leg, and wincing as Bodie says something thoughtless to Cowley, and it's Bodie who's skipping to catch up with a teasing Doyle at the end of the ep. It's Doyle who teases Freddy on CI5 security in Long Shot, and who teases Bodie to Cowley about having a dirty weekend lined up. Bodie gets his own back with the NAAFI canteen tease, but - they're equals in this, as in everything. They may have their differences - Doyle knows which Greek restauranter will give them the information they need, and how to get it from him, and Bodie knows more about sniper guns - but they're equals.
And neither of them are perfectly sensitive (Doyle is needlessly aggressive to Paula in Female Factor, and Bodie needlessly aggressive to women in Close Quarters) - but neither of them are completely selfish bastards either (Doyle tries to help Bodie in MWaP, and of course Bodie helps Doyle in WtHCO, both among many other examples).
So where is Rob getting the threads of character that she's using in the story? Anyone got any ideas? (And bearing in mind she was writing at a time when she would probably have had to either remember the eps., or watch versions on videotape if she had a video player - according to Dave Matthews site there were official Pros videos around in the 1980s). Of course we all bring our own bits and pieces to the lads characters, to fit in with the stories we're writing, but - where might it all have come from for WtF?
What d'you/did you think? *g*
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Date: 2021-04-04 08:12 pm (UTC)In chapter 30, Doyle makes contact with Ferris and Twigg, while Kate Ross throws a hissy fit over the fact that Cowley has sent Doyle on a mission before she has declared Doyle psychologically fit. Meanwhile, Bodie has finally infiltrated Ferris and Twigg's organization and has been assigned to kill Elizabeth Walsh. Cowley takes a helicopter to Walsh's house to warn her, and they proceed to have tea as they await the arrival of Bodie and the partner Ferris and Twigg have assigned him (whom he later nicknames Caine). Fortunately, Caine is too nervous to enter the house, and Bodie goes in alone, allowing him to pretend to murder Walsh simply by firing his gun through the window. While at Walsh's house, Cowley learns that Doyle has disappeared. Cowley and Walsh return to London, while Bodie and Caine retire to a hotel for the night. The next day, Bodie and Caine proceed to a house used by Ferris and Twigg, where they find Doyle and are ordered to kill him. They drive into the country to commit the crime. Bodie doesn't think Caine will go through with it and enjoys pretending that he intends to let Doyle be murdered. At the last moment, Bodie realizes that Caine really is about to shoot Doyle and jumps on Caine. When the dust settles, it turns out that Caine is in fact Clive Williams of MI6. The trio go to report to Cowley, because it is evident that Williams does not trust his own superiors. Bodie and Williams are sent back undercover, while Doyle invites the rest of the CI5 shooting team to a party at Bodie's flat. Cowley suspects there is a leak in MI6.
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Date: 2021-04-04 08:19 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-04-05 09:17 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-04-04 10:03 pm (UTC)I found the amount of explicit sex at the beginning of this section tedious, though I suppose some of it did advance the story, as indicated in byslantedlight's summary.
Ray continues to be childish, to the point that it is hard to understand why Bodie has fallen in love with him, unless it is a response to Doyle's helplessness, as suggested a couple of times in Chapter 25. If so, it really doesn't seem that they have the foundation for a healthy relationship, A good ending for the story might be for them to break free of the dynamics that have fueled their romantic and sexual interactions, and instead become friends. I doubt that is going to happen, but perhaps it was a hopeful sign that Bodie finally called Doyle on some of his behavior, even if it was in anger. Doyle seemed to improve a little after that, doing more on his own and broadening his social circle so that he is less dependent on Bodie.
I disagree that it doesn't occur to Doyle to reciprocate when Bodie tells him he loves him. The following doesn't sound to me like someone who doesn't know what he is supposed to say, but rather like someone who is purposely avoiding saying it, for whatever reason:
"I love you, Ray," he said, preparing to leave the flat to go to work and needing to hear the once response he still longed for.
Doyle looked at him, blinked, flushed, and dropped his eyes, sighing heavily before stepping forward to press his lips to Bodie's in a light, unbearably tender caress, stepping back when Bodie tried to deepen the kiss.
Eyes falling away again and a flush creeping up his neck and face, Doyle turned away to open the front door. "I know," he said and began to walk away.
Incidentally, back in Chapter 25, when the operation against Greerson took place, the camera used to gather evidence was described as being faulty, rather than used incorrectly by Doyle, as is reported in Chapter 28. (I know this because when I got to Chapter 28, I thought, "Who is this Greerson person," and had to go look it up.)
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Date: 2021-04-04 10:59 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-04-05 01:39 am (UTC)Why are there two characters named Williams? A doctor named Willis?
Are there even reasons?
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Date: 2021-04-05 02:35 am (UTC)What made Doyle refuse to just TELL Accomodations, "Hey, you do know I was recently wrongly imprisoned, right? So why am I in a flat with BARS on the window?"
This seems like a plausible enough reluctance to admit that he has fears he can't control. I don't have answers for your other questions.
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Date: 2021-04-05 09:42 am (UTC)Or maybe even an insider joke, because Pros was notorious for using the same names over and over again. Maybe Rob decided she'd play too!
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Date: 2021-04-05 09:41 am (UTC)Well that's from Spy Probe, in the actual episode.
COWLEY: You solved it.
MISS WALSH: Yes. When I heard about Kovac, it was relatively easy. The KGB would only assign one of its top majors to something important.
COWLEY: To protect one of their own?
MISS WALSH: Yes. A traitor. A double agent. Unsuspected; secure.
COWLEY: Except for something in his past. Something those eighteen people just might have pieced together.
MISS WALSH: A small risk, but the KGB don't take risks. So, they arranged to have them all eliminated.
Elizabeth Walsh was of course one of the 18 — she had high security clearance, and had even worked for Churchill way back when.
Why can't we even know why Doyle does not want to say he loves Bodie?
I assume that partly he's more mature than Bodie as far as relationships (despite all the other evidence!) - perhaps he's wary because he was not long ago in a relationship with Ann. It's pretty soon for him to fall in love with someone else, especially since she was killed. And there was also the bit were Doyle was taken aback by hearing Bodie talk casually about their sex, so that he ended up thinking Bodie felt it was nothing more than a "quick grope" between them — maybe he thinks Bodie uses "I love you" like alot of men use it, to get someone into bed with them. It's actually one of the more believable things about Doyle in this story so far, for me!
What made Doyle refuse to just TELL Accomodations, "Hey, you do know I was recently wrongly imprisoned, right? So why am I in a flat with BARS on the window?"
Pride, I suspect — he wouldn't want to outwardly admit that he has a problem with it. He couldn't just refuse the apartment, he'd have to explain why, and presumably it would go through a chain of paperwork of people all finding out about it, and... I can see that, to be honest!
Why are there two characters named Williams? A doctor named Willis?
The repetition of names in Pros is notorious — those writers had no imagination (or even the use of a phone book or the like, apparently!) How many of the girlfriends are called Claire, or some version of Julie?
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Date: 2021-04-05 09:31 am (UTC)That bit's in the actual episode, in fact.
Bodie leaves the car. He makes his way around the side of the house and into an open window. As he moves into the room, he pauses at a prominently placed photograph of Sir Winston Churchill.
MISS WALSH: Chartwell, 1953. It was nice of him to sign it for me, don't you think? We've been waiting for you.
BODIE: We?
COWLEY: Yes, Bodie, we.
Cowley and Walsh both look at him around the sides of matched wing chairs in front of the fireplace.
COWLEY: This is Miss Walsh, Miss Elizabeth Walsh.
BODIE: Miss Walsh.
MISS WALSH: May I offer you a drink, Mr Bodie?
BODIE: No, thank you.
It was only the reluctance of Caine/Williams to be involved that made the situation work out.
If Caine/Williams had come in with Bodie, or if he'd gone in on his own, it would have been fairly simple for Bodie to get behind him and either knock him out or put his own gun to Caine/Williams' head.
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Date: 2021-04-05 09:41 am (UTC)If Caine/Williams had come in with Bodie, or if he'd gone in on his own, it would have been fairly simple for Bodie to get behind him and either knock him out or put his own gun to Caine/Williams' head.
Yes, but how would he have explained that to his employers?
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Date: 2021-04-05 09:50 am (UTC)Caine turned out to be a copper, so Bodie did for him.
Caine got in the way, so Bodie had to shoot him. Whoops, now Bodie will get all the money.
Walsh was trickier than she looked for an old woman, she had a gun.
... *g*
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Date: 2021-04-05 04:46 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-04-05 09:18 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-04-05 09:56 am (UTC)My mental justification for that is that in this universe Bodie waited even longer to intervene than he did in the episode, because he was having fun tormenting Doyle. *shrug*
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Date: 2021-04-05 09:59 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-04-05 09:21 am (UTC)To be honest so did I...
Ray continues to be childish, to the point that it is hard to understand why Bodie has fallen in love with him, unless it is a response to Doyle's helplessness
Yes — I think even Bodie reflects on how he loves Doyle's vulnerability, and Doyle not only wanting him but needing him, which I think we talked about a bit last week. Doyle has been shown to have a spark about him, but only very occasionally and not consistently, so as you say, it's difficult to see what Bodie sees in him, especially when he's not even a really good agent at the moment!
A good ending for the story might be for them to break free of the dynamics that have fueled their romantic and sexual interactions, and instead become friends. I doubt that is going to happen
Hee — not when it's called Waiting to
Fuck! And it is, after all, a slash story. *g* But I do agree that their relationship, such as it is, isn't healthy at the moment, on either side. In fact Doyle's almost got the healthier side of the relationship!I disagree that it doesn't occur to Doyle to reciprocate when Bodie tells him he loves him. The following doesn't sound to me like someone who doesn't know what he is supposed to say, but rather like someone who is purposely avoiding saying it
Yes, I agree — I don't think Doyle does love (or recognise that he loves) Bodie yet. And I think that's part of him having a more mature, healthier attitude to their relationship. Although that said, I do remember him thinking that Bodie just wants a "quick grope", and distancing himself from their relationship, so you'd think Bodie saying "I love you" would need to be addressed in some way...
Incidentally, back in Chapter 25....
Oh, you're right! Well remembered!
Inside, Doyle, a camera hidden in his briefcase, was watching and waiting for the backup which never came.
The meeting over, secrets touted and bought, the Cabinet aide and Greerson left at five minute intervals. It had taken Doyle five minutes to realise that the camera had been faulty and the photographs were useless.
Which begs the question — is it just a continuity blip, or is Bodie blaming Doyle for it because he doesn't know the camera was faulty? I wonder if we'll find out!
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Date: 2021-04-11 12:16 pm (UTC)I actually read a fic this week in which something very like this happens.
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Date: 2021-04-11 12:58 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-04-11 07:01 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-04-11 10:38 pm (UTC)But also there's a difference between being told the name of a story and then what happens in it, and being told "there's a story about this" and then going to read it. What you're told about a story affects the way that you read it. If I'm told a story title and then told what happens in it, then I have to read it from the perspective of now-I've-told-you-what-happens. Whereas if I'm told "there's a story about such-and-such" then I'm going into it from the perspective of it's-about-such-and-such - and then I'm choosing to read about such-and-such and to find out what happens. It's perhaps a subtle difference, but it's the difference between being spoiled for a story because you've been told, and being attracted to a story because you've read a brief review/summary.
So I'll go into this story a) knowing I've already read it, and b) knowing I'm unlikely to enjoy the ending.
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Date: 2021-04-05 12:46 pm (UTC)And the fainting is just another nail in the coffin as to Doyle being unfit to be an agent. I don't have a clue as to how Rob could tie this all together in her mind.
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Date: 2021-04-05 12:57 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-04-05 02:56 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-04-05 02:55 pm (UTC)Doyle fainting from the stress of thinking he's going to be shot? Yes, okay - exceedingly stressful, and I don't like to imagine what I'd do, but as you say, how is that the reaction of a CI5 agent? It's a horrendous thing, but how often to do we hear stories of people in a firing line fainting before they can be shot? Or some mafia or other joking about how the guy they stood up and shot fainted first, so that they had to bring them around again before they could execute them? Just... no, that's not how our bodies react to that situation — in fact I imagine that the physical rush of adrenaline would probably fight against any urge to faint...
I can only think that it's the whole h/c thing taken to very great extremes (and Rob's hardly the first/only writer to do it), perhaps because their subconscious is focusing more on the ultimate comfort outcome than the reality of what the characters are doing in order to be hurt first...