Reading Room XVI - A Pardon After Execution by Pamela Rose

[macklingirl.livejournal.com]

Todays Reading Room story is A Pardon After Excecution by Pamela Rose. The story takes place after the end of The Ojuka Situation, when Bodie and Doyle stand there and Doyle inspects his burned wrists. And at that scene in the episode I always thought "Wait, what happened to Parker? Where is he?" and here it's Doyle asking the same question. Where is Parker?


Doyle stopped abruptly, tugging back on Bodie's grip. "Where's Parker?"

"Who's that?"

The green eyes swept over the grounds, taking in the departing car containing Ojuka's traitorous lady and the too-greedy government official, then moved back to the other group of prisoners being herded into motors with less politeness. "I left him in the back, down in the cellar. He was out cold." Catching sight of Murphy, Doyle called out, "Murph, have you searched the grounds?"

Murphy looked up, startled. "Yeah, this is the lot."

"Bloody hell!" Doyle took off at a sprint, Bodie following doggedly.

"Ray, let the other lads see to it, will ya? Doyle!"

Doyle was clutching his side when he reached the cellar steps, plainly hurting. But he jerked out his gun with his left hand and barreled down. It was empty.

Well, what did he expect? He didn't tie him up and even though Parker was unconscious when he left him there was a chance he might wake up and run. And of course Parker did run. And it looked as if the story would become very interesting with Parker on the run. I was sure he would come back for revenge.

Okay, let's look what happens next. They are at HQ and Bodie is summoned to Cowley's office. Cowley informs him that they haven't found Parker and of course Bodie isn't happy. Cowley tells him off about his earlier behavior and threatens to split them up if it would ever happen again. Bodie tells him, that it would never happen, but Cowley really knows his men. I love the following sentences.

"Whatever you feel about Doyle, you keep it off the job, or so help me I'll split you and assign you to different counties, if necessary."

There was a split second of emotion at this; a flicker of the straight, black lashes, a vague hint of a stubborn pout on the expressive mouth, before the face was schooled back to blankness.

"No, sir. It won't happen again, sir."

"Och, get outa my office, afore I really lose my temper! I won't ha' ya stand there an' lie to me. Go on wi' ya. See ta Doyle."



Then follows a longer scene with nice banter between the lads, but what follows at Doyle's home doesn't fit for me.



We learn that Doyle has some cracked rips, a split lip and bruises over and over. They went to Doyle's flat and from there it was difficult for me. I mean, I never had cracked rips and bruises all over my body. Or even a split lip. But I had a hurt mouth sometime ago and I didn't like kissing then. So for me it didn't fit that Doyle wants sex and could enjoy it while his whole body is hurting after the beating. I mean, he isn't a masochist (because they would like it), so for me this scene wasn't needed. I would have enjoyed it more if they only had cuddled.




Okay, let's go on. We read something about Parker (he's hiding with a terrorist) and while jogging Doyle meets a young woman, Katrina, and has a date later that day.

>The reflection he saw hadn't changed much from the too-young copper he'd been years ago. Compared to Bodie's sleek elegance, he felt unfinished, definitely unpolished. A diamond in the rough, maybe, for he was not totally unpleased with his appearance. He only noted his flaws in comparison with Bodie's almost classical features. He looked like what he had bee, what he still was in many ways, a scrappy East End kid--hot temper, chipped tooth, broken cheekbone and all.<

I don't think he would compare himself with Bodie and think he's unfinished. For me Doyle isn't so insecure about his appearance. He's a confident, good looking man and he knows it.

They spend the evening with Kartrina and Doyle's arousing Bodie with his hand under the table while kissing her.

>But the vague image escaped him before he could catch hold of it. He took another drink, trying to shake off the feeling. Out of the corner of his eye he could see that Ray was kissing her neck now, tongue touching on the pulsebeat--he knew exactly how that felt, how good Ray was at it...

The hand on his thigh beneath the table almost made him spill his drink. He looked up to meet Doyle's mischievous eyes. The long fingers traced up the inside seam of his trousers to the crotch. He was very thankful for the long tablecoverings.

"You bastard," he mouthed.

Doyle just flashed one of his most dazzling smiles and turned back to the girl. The swelling in Bodie;s groin was becoming uncomfortable against the tight fabric. He tried to inch away but the hand moved with him. He wondered if the little sod would be quite so blase if he threw him across the tabletop and raped him.

Bodie closed his eyes and gave in to the inevitable, spreading his legs for further exploration. One of these nights, he'd do it. Doyle would push him too far, flirt a little too outrageously, and he'd end up getting more than he'd bargained for.. <

That's nasty of Doyle because Bodie can't do anything about it, but would he really think about hurting Doyle when they never before they have gone so far? I don't think so.

After Doyle spent some time of the night with Katrinka he drives to Bodie and sleeps with him. Bodie tries to fuck him, but Doyle resists. They have it off together and in the aftermath Doyle tells Bodie that he promised Katrina to drive to her uncle the next day.
And the next day they do right this, without telling anybody where and with whom they leaving London.

So, does that fit for me? I'm not sure. We never get to know how they really meet their girl friends and if they know them really well. But I can remember that they have to report to HQ when they want to leave the R/T range. And they go with her without knowing where? And don't tell anyone? They are not on leave (at least I didn't find anything about being on leave). And when Bodie asks her how far away it is he is confident with the answer "A ways."? No, I really don't think so.



And now we are at the cottage somewhere in nowhere. And there is Parker. He cuffes Bodie to the stairway beam and ties Doyle through a chain on the ceiling. And then the torture starts.

>Without replying, Parker slipped his belt out of his trousers and laid it sharply across Doyle's naked back. Doyle stiffened but didn't cry out. At first. By the sixth blow, however, sweat had broken out on him and his teeth were clenched in pain. Parker didn't stop until Doyle's slender back was crisscrossed with welts and deep cuts from the buckle. His eyes were squeezed shut and he was shaking with the effort of holding back the hurt.<

Okay, Doyle is a tough CI5 agent, but I think even he wouldn't be able to not scream when someone lays a belt buckle all over his back. Or if he clenches his teeth in pain he would have broken out some of them. I know it sounds like a really, really hard man, but it isn't logical in any way. At least he screams when the whisky hit's his back. To endure this in silence really would have been to much.


Okay, let's come to the next scene which I calle "The Game Scene"



That's the part where Bodie has to admit that he too played The Game in Africa. We don't get any information if he was the winner or the looser and Doyle didn't ask. When Parker rapes him he only sees Bodie doing the same in his mind. We have some more mind and body torture like russian roulett.

I must admit, the torture scene was nearly to much for me. I don't mind rough scenes in a milde way, but this was very intense and for me really a little disturbing. And I can't put my finger on a point and say "till here but no more". It was the whole package. And maybe it was because Doyle was so sure that Bodie did in Africa what Parker now did to him. But I didn't need this detailled description, less of it would have been enough for me.



The next day Parker vanishes and they kill Katrina. And have a understandable row. Doyle is hurt and won't be touched by Bodie (which I can understand, I wouldn't like to be touched by anyone if I had to endure what Doyle had to go through).

>"Don't touch me, please."

His hand stopped, dropped nervously to his knee. "I'm sorry."

"I can't stop you," Doyle continued as if he hadn't heard, "but I'd rather you wouldn't."

Confused, Bodie stared at him. "What'd you mean 'you can't stop me'? I would never hurt you, Ray."

Doyle's eyes regarded him bitterly. "Wouldn't you? You wanted to do what Parker did."

"No! Not...like that. Nothing like that. Ray, don't--"

"Why not? You used to do it, didn't you? A game you...mercenaries played, isn't that right?"

"No...I..." Bodie felt a dismal cold settle in his stomach.

"No?: There were tears in Doyle's eyes now, but his voice was still hard. "Then tell me you didn't do it, Bodie. Tell me you've never raped anyone. Say it!"

Bodie remained silent.

Doyle's eyes closed slowly, a tear squeezing out to drop down on the blanket. "Okay. All I ask is that you...don't touch me again. Please. We both know I can't stop you--"

"But you can!" Bodie broke in helplessly. "You could've stopped Parker if he hadn't taken you off guard. Don't let him make you believe that, Ray! That's what the bastard wanted--to make you feel weak. You're not! It wasn't you, Ray. It could have been anyone. It could've been me!" He dropped his face in his hands. "Christ, I wish it would have been..." He raised his head, feeling desperate. "It's not like that with us, you know that. It's never been like that. I know you've been hurt, that you need time. But don't confuse what happened here with--"

"With the things you did in Angola?" Doyle finished flatly.

Bodie froze. With an effort he held back the rising anger and frustration. "All right, Doyle, that's enough. You don't know anything about it."

"I know enough, don't I?" Doyle said viciously. "Enough to know you're no better than Krivas or Parker or any of the others. I reckon I forgot that for a while."

Bodie let his breath out slowly, relaxing his clenched fists. "Believe what you like." He stood. "We still have to walk out of here tomorrow. We need to get some rest. I'll sleep in the loft."

He went up the stairs without looking back.

Doyle remained awake, staring at the fire.<

Why the hell don't Bodie explain what he did in Africa? He is hurt and angry with Doyle for coming to the wrong conclusion, but why doesn't he explain or try to explain how it was in Africa? Why has Doyle and the reader to be left in the dark about his history? Grrr, I don't like it. They are both hurt and they can't speak. And in the result Bodie shows Doyle that he really could be a cold mercenary. And that I like. *g*

>He looked at Bodie furiously. "Christ, you're damned cold about all of this, aren't you?"

"I'm a mercenary, remember?" Bodie retorted flippantly. "We're not nice people..




Bodie takes indefinite leave without telling Doyle. And Cowley wants to find out more. So he suspendes Doyle because he don't tell him what happened. Later that day Cowley visits Doyle and finds out. And he tells Doyle some truth about Bodie.

>"I killed her," Doyle said quietly.

Cowley nodded, tucking the photograph back in his jacket. "I know, son. And Bodie's killed Parker. Now tell me why."

Doyle covered his face with his hands. Cowley poured more liquor in Doyle's glass and handed it to him. Doyle accepted it gratefully, swallowing it down without a blink.

"Did you know where Bodie was going, lad?"

"No," he took a deep breath. "Should've, I suppose." He took another drink. "Or perhaps I did know. Maybe I wanted it. Didn't have the guts to do it myself. Bodie must've guessed that, so he took care of it for me. He always takes care of me, doesn't he? You told me that yourself. My big brother...my protector...Oh hell--" his voice broke.

"What did Parker do, lad?" Cowley asked.

"You know what he did!" Doyle threw his glass across the room and it smashed against the wall with a thud and tinkle of broken glass. "He... set us up...tricked us into..." Doyle wrapped his arms around himself, shuddered. He'd thought he was over this, thought he'd managed to accept it. "He...used me...raped me...Oh Christ..."

Cowley waited for a moment. "And Bodie!"

Doyle lifted his head. "He didn't do anything to Bodie. Nothing!" His voice was savage, and he heard the note of bitterness and was surprised by it. Was that it? Was he hating Bodie for getting off so east?

Cowley didn't say anything for a bit, then, very quietly, "Is that why he went to Johannesburg, Doyle? For nothing?"

Doyle looked confused. "I...don't know..."

"He was raped, too, you know. Just as surely as you were." Cowley waited for that to sink in. "Save a little pity for him as well as yourself."

Doyle's eyes flashed. "I don't want pity, damn you."

"You've been wallowing in it for over a week now."
<

A very gentle, sensitive Cowley. Could that be? Yes, it could if one of the people he likes is hurt. But he is hard too because he tells Doyle that he would do all to protect CI5 if needed. But would he tell Doyle about Bodie being raped in Africa? I'm not sure. I think he would tell Doyle to ask Bodie about the game and his role in it. But I'm sure he would send Doyle to Dr. Ross, if Doyle want or not.

Now Bodie is back and Doyle goes and visits him with the knowledge about Bodie's past. And he even apologizes about the things he said to Bodie back in that lodge. But I'm not fully satisfied with the way he does it. He hurt Bodie really bad with what he said and his only apology is to say >"Bodie, I didn't mean it. I was hurting, for god's sake. I was confused...sick. I'm not even sure what I said. You can't--"< Why can't he tell Bodie that he now knows that Bodie didn't rape anyone? Would that be so difficult? Why can't they sit down and talk?

In the end they have a row because Bodie asks Doyle if he discovered that he likes getting fucked and Doyle hit him, only to tell him afterwards that he loves him. And that is the only thing that Bodie hears.



All in all I must say it would never be one of my favourite stories, but it isn't an absolut no-go either. I'm really not sure about this story. It is very well written and I love the banter. For me Pamela Rose has a good way to describe what happens, but in some ways it was too much for me. Let me know what you think. Do you like the story (and why)? Or is it a no-go story for you? Would you recommend it? Am I to fussy again? Let's talk about it. :-)

Comments

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Hurrah! First Reading Room of 2020 - thank you! Sorry it's taken me so long to get here... *g* I've not read this story for ages. I liked the set up of dealing with Parker - that was a very loose end in the ep, and he was actually quite a frightening villain.

So for me it didn't fit that Doyle wants sex and could enjoy it while his whole body is hurting after the beating
I know what you mean, and I did wonder a bit, but when we see him at the end of the ep he seems mostly fine, and I suppose they're used to ignoring cuts and scrapes and bashes, so I didn't disbelieve this bit - especially for two quite highly sexed guys, as the eps would have us believe!

I agree too that Doyle isn't insecure about his appearance - in the eps he's pretty confident about his own ability in every regard, even after we've seen him being emotionally knocked about by various women (I can totally see him turning to Bodie *g*) I can perhaps see him occasionally feeling scruffy alongside Bodie - but I don't think it would bother him, because it's just a different "look", and just as appealing. *g*

but would he really think about hurting Doyle when they never before they have gone so far
I don't actually take Bodie's wonderings here as serious - I don't think he seriously plans to throw Doyle down and rape him, or "give him more than he bargained for" against his will. To me this is just a reflection of Bodie's frustration - like we might think "If she does that again I'll kill her!" without ever actually thinking we'd really kill someone. *g* But that said, I do have a problem with this:

He wondered if the little sod would be quite so blase if he threw him across the tabletop and raped him.
It's the language here - "and raped him" - and I've come across it in lots of fics that I think were written around the same time. I remember that rape seemed to be... Hmmn, what? ...perhaps something that was increasingly being addressed in society rather than hidden away, and I think women were starting to feel that it was something they could speak out about, and that it wasn't their fault. There was an emerging awareness, which made the word quite powerful in that everyone was working out what was meant by it - like the MeToo movement and Climate Change awarness (and recent cases like this (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jan/06/reynhard-sinaga-jailed-life-drugging-raping-men-manchester) where the newspapers note that people are still fairly unaware of male rape). At the same time books like My Secret Garden (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Secret_Garden) were talking about women's fantasies, including rape fantasies (not because they wanted to be hurt, but because it was a safe way of not feeling guilty about sexual feelings they may have been brought up to repress). Some Pros authors seem to have Bodie and Doyle talking quite casually about raping each other, and not always in a negative way. There's often a threat to rape, with the justification that it's done through passion and love - which reads really strangely to me. I tend to assume that the author is actually talking about very passionate, active sex rather than rape (unwanted sexual intercourse). A few fics have one of them pointing out that it can't be rape if the other person wants it, and it even reads strangely to me that they feel they have to point this out. So I tend to take this sort of thing as a sign of the times that a particular story was written - a reflection of society working out what it all meant.

But then it's complicated in this fic, because we're told that Bodie did actually rape men in the past, via the Game. So suddenly, for me, the idea of Bodie raping Doyle isn't a reflection of the times any more - and yet it's written in the same way as in other fics where it does seem to be that reflection. So... I end up feeling uncomfortable about it, rather than understanding the story from either perspective - it seems to want me to take both perspectives.

And I have a feeling this is going to be too long, so I'm going to post this bit first! *g*

[firlefanzine.livejournal.com]

Good thoughts about 'rape' and how it may have changed to handle it over the years!

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Thanks!

[macklingirl.livejournal.com]

First thanks for your comment and the information about the change of the language. You're right, things changed about speaking out about something like rape. And it wouldn't be so difficult to understand for me if Bodie were thinking about taking Doyle in a passionate, active way. But I still don't think he would think about raping Doyle.

But then it's complicated in this fic, because we're told that Bodie did actually rape men in the past, via the Game. I didn't read this. The only implication I found is that Bodie did play the game. But nobody said that he was the rapist there. The whole scene with Parker only tells us that Bodie knows the game. And that he was good at it. But this could also mean that he was good in taking the rape (in Parker's way of thinking). Maybe he played the game in the hope to win and that is what Parker likes. Neither Bodie nore Parker actually say that Bodie did the raping.

Please look here:
Bodie lowered his head, biting into his lip. He couldn't stand to watch this. Doyle had held up well to this point, somehow sensing that Parker wanted him to break down, to show weakness, but he couldn't take much more. And Bodie knew there was much worse in store for him.

"What's the matter, Bodie?" Parker chided. "Getting squeamish since you returned to civilization? Forgot all about the old days, have you? This would have been nothing over there. Maybe you should tell him what he has coming next." Parker grabbed Doyle's cock, squeezing it. "Or maybe you've figured that out already, eh?"

Doyle swallowed, regaining his breath. "It's me you want to torture. Leave Bodie out of it."

Parker's eyes lit up. "Leave him out of it? You don;t know him very well at all, do you? He used to be fantastic at this stuff. He never told you about The Game? What men do to each other when they're stuck in the jungle together for weeks on end? I think you know, don't you? Bodie knows. Tell him, Bodie."

Bodie remained silent.

Parker hit Doyle across the mouth, cutting it open. "Tell him, Bodie! What was The Game?"

Bodie's mouth was dry. "It was rape."

"And you played too, didn't you?"

Doyle's eyes were filled with tears from the smarting of the last blow and the raw pain of his back. Bodie found he couldn't meet the confused gaze.

"Yes," he whispered.

Parker yanked Doyle's head back again. "I don't think he heard you."

"Yes!" Bodie shouted, choking out the words. "I played the bloody Game like everyone else, damn you to hell!"

For me that isn't the indication that he really did it. It's only Doyle he comes to the conclusion.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I do take your point that nothing explicit is actually said - and maybe that's why this part of the story reads as somewhat confusing to me. Because if Bodie took part in the Game "for weeks on end", I find it hard to believe that he only ever lost (even if he was much younger then), in the way that the Game has been set up in Pros fanfic. And if he did only ever lose, then I'd expect there to be some hint that something was up when he tried to fuck Doyle and Doyle said no - even if it was only the author suggesting that Bodie immediately pulled back and was aware that no meant no. But there was no connection between Bodie fucking Doyle here, and any traumatic experience that Bodie'd had in the Game - just Bodie trying to convince Doyle that he would like it. So for me the conclusion's more obvious that Bodie did like fucking other men, and had experience of it - and then later in the story we're told that Bodie played the Game, so the connection I make, since it's not explicit, is that Bodie at least sometimes won.

And when Parker taunts Bodie about the Game, Bodie doesn't answer that it was an inhumane thing to do, that civilised people didn't act like that - any of the things he might have said if he'd only ever hated it/been raped by it himself. Instead he agrees that he "played" it, which as someone else below says, suggests active participation, and certainly not trying to avoid or stop it.

So - it's rather ambiguous, I'd say...

[macklingirl.livejournal.com]

Oh yes, it's very ambiguous. Maybe Bodie didn't tell Parker that it is an inhumane thing to do because he knew that Doyle would be the one who would have to pay for everything he, Bodie, would say that annoys Parker?

So for me the conclusion's more obvious that Bodie did like fucking other men,
Oh, I don't mean that Bodie didn't like fucking other men. Why should he not like it? I think as a man being raped by various other men might lead yourself to like doing the fucking, but not liking to be fucked anymore.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

I think we've read a couple of things differently, and I'd be interested to know how others have read them.

"He was raped, too, you know. Just as surely as you were."
I didn't read this as meaning that Bodie was physically raped like Doyle was, but that Cowley was saying the rape had a huge effect on Bodie, just as it had on Doyle. (It's because Cowley says "just as surely as you were" - in English that implies that something also affected someone else to an equivalent extent, albeit in a slightly different way. E.g. that it had an equal pyschological effect on Bodie as it had on Doyle). I definitely disagree, and to me that was Cowley rather belittling the rape itself. But then that's what we're told men did/do - the same thing that women did/do, try to get past it by pretending that it didn't happen/was less important, and so ignoring all the other psychological consequences...

And then:
Why can't he tell Bodie that he now knows that Bodie didn't rape anyone?
Because... wait, Bodie didn't rape anyone? Why do you think that? ... *goes back, re-reads*... Okay, I guess I can see how it could be read that Bodie playing the Game was him being raped rather than him raping anyone, and going back to the whole men-weren't-supposed-to-talk thing, that might be why he didn't say it was the other way around, but... in the whole nightmare of what was happening, I'm not convinced that wouldn't have come out at some point. Even Bodie saying "Look, I know," and them looking at each other enough that Doyle understood what he meant. As you say, why wouldn't the whole story about it have come out in the end, if that's what had happened?

Do you like the story (and why)? Or is it a no-go story for you? Would you recommend it? Am I to fussy again?
Hmmn - it's not a no-go story for me, although I struggle a bit with some of the Americanisms vs the lads' speech that the author's trying to copy (and mostly doing a good job with). And I actually found loads of typos in the Circuit Archive version, which threw me. But none of that's what you mean, I don't think. *g*

I don't mind stories that address male rape, or have one of them raped, but it's a difficult thing to address well, I think, and it gets tangled up with how our awareness etc. has changed so much over time. Not that we/women ever thought it was okay, but the admission that it happens, that it's not okay, that it's not the woman's/victim's fault etc. And to me this story didn't really manage to be clear about things. Or maybe it's my reading of it - like I said, I'd like to know what other people thought, so I hope there'll be more replies soon!

[macklingirl.livejournal.com]

It's because Cowley says "just as surely as you were" - in English that implies that something also affected someone else to an equivalent extent,
Okay, that's something I didn't know. I think that's the problem with not being a native speaker. *g* But it would fit perfect for me that Cowley knows something about Bodie's past Bodie isn't proud of. You know, Cowley knows everything about his agents, from the cradle to the grave.

although I struggle a bit with some of the Americanisms vs the lads' speech that the author's trying to copy (and mostly doing a good job with).
Yes, I had some problems with the Americanisms as well, even if it were so bad for me. That's the advantage of not being a native speaker. *g*

[ali15son.livejournal.com]

This is not my kind of story and gave it up half way through .

[firlefanzine.livejournal.com]

"This is not my kind of story"

Same here.
But somehow I liked the second half.

[ali15son.livejournal.com]

I have read it before and came to the same conclusion as my most recent read, it drags too much for my liking i do like Pamela Roses's stories but this one i will give a miss to.

[macklingirl.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I know what you mean. There were some moments with them running in the park, spending the evening with Katrina and driving to her uncle where I thought "Okay, I'll skip it. It's to long and mildly boring."

[ali15son.livejournal.com]

To be honest , i know what you mean.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

I wonder if that's cos it's more about Bodie...?!

[ali15son.livejournal.com]

No that isn't the reason at all, it's a story that i can't get my head around .

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

What is it about the story that you can't get your head around, out of interest?

[ali15son.livejournal.com]

I can't pin point one thing, for instance the Doyle torture scene , this isn't how i see Doyle reacting, i can't explain it , this scene drags on too long for me and my interrest in it stopped at that point.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

this isn't how i see Doyle reacting
I agree! He's just too passive or cowed or something...

[ali15son.livejournal.com]

Exactly, i like to see the feisty Doyle, the Doyle who never gives in, the Doyle with grit and determination.

[macklingirl.livejournal.com]

Yes, the scene is too long. And Doyle's reaction really doesn't fit. Okay, he can't do much while he is tied up, but when he can endure the whole beating with the belt buckle, why didn't he try to do something when Parker went to sleep?

It's like I said, it's confusing.

[ali15son.livejournal.com]

Tied up or not, the Doyle that i see in my mind would give it a real go at fighting back, i don't see any of that in this Doyle.

[firlefanzine.livejournal.com]

Me: "But somehow I liked the second half."

You: "I wonder if that's cos it's more about Bodie...?! "

Hmmmm... This is a strange remark!
Because I don't think that it's true that there is 'more Bodie than Doyle' in this second half of the story!

And no story just about Bodie is necessarily a good one!

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

No, I don't think there's more Bodie than Doyle in the second half, they're both there together, but I think the second half focuses more on Bodie dealing with it than Doyle - even to the extent that Doyle is the one who apologises to Bodie. So if someone empathises more with Bodie than with Doyle, I wonder if that would make the second half more appealing, that's all.

To me the story seems to start off with equal focus on them, then obviously Doyle's put through the trauma (although actually that still focuses alot on Bodie, come to think of it) and then the end is more focused on Bodie's reaction to it all. It's sort of assumed that Doyle will be traumatised and have to deal with it, but the author's focus almost seems to be more on pointing out that in fact Bodie's perhaps even more traumatised (maybe because he was raped in the past, although that's not how I read it re: the Game).

[cim3745.livejournal.com]

I would have stopped too, if I had started reading at the beginning.

[macklingirl.livejournal.com]

I totally understand you. I would have stopped reading too if I hadn't been the host. *g*

[firlefanzine.livejournal.com]

Wow! What a comprehensive summary! ....so much to consider!
Thank you very much!

To be honest - though I love the writing of Pamela Rose, I wasn’t in the mood to read a ‘psychopath-trap-revenge-torture-rape’ story, and so I stopped reading after several pages.
Then I talked with some friends about the story, and cim3745 told me that - for lack of time - she started the story in the middle, and that she would give it 4 stars of 5. :-)

So I did the same, and went to page 37(...) of 60.
It's the final rape scene. And I must confess, that the aftermath of the torture/rape was great and that I really did enjoy this part of the story!

However - at the end I was a bit confused because nothing seems to be solved, as for how Bodie was involved in 'The Game'...!?
And how Doyle can live with it.

[cim3745.livejournal.com]

However - at the end I was a bit confused because nothing seems to be solved, as for how Bodie was involved in 'The Game'...!?
And how Doyle can live with it.

It is a kind of open end, yes. Maybe another point in their life they have to manage - it's one of many, but a pathbreaking one, perhaps.
Sometimes, I like if isn't anything told, so in this case. I am pretty sure they'll make it. Is my feeling of the story's end ;-) or always wishful thinking.

[macklingirl.livejournal.com]

Thank you for the compliment.

I choosed this story by them random-button over at CA and since I like Pamela Rose's writing too I gave a chance. Maybe it might have been easier for me if I would have started in the middle of the story too. Maybe the difference between before and after the torture/rape was to extrem for me.

And yes, I would have liked to know too how Bodie was involved in "The Game".

[snailbones.livejournal.com]

Thank you for kicking off the new year.

I found myself nodding in agreement with your thoughts... though while reading I discovered I've grown a squeamish side when it comes to graphic violence - I had to skip all of it. I also found the casual use of the word 'rape' threw me out of the story.

I loved the thoughtful Cowley though, and the Doyle of the last few paragraphs made me grin - now that's the stroppy bugger I love so much!

[macklingirl.livejournal.com]

You're welcome and thank you for stopping by.

Like I said, the torture was nearly too much for me to read. Less would have been enough for me. And casual is the word I didn't find. It fits my problem perfect. It is used like flower or coffee.

Oh, the thoughtful Cowley. He can be very sensitive if need be.

[cim3745.livejournal.com]

That was an interesting reading experience.

As firlefanzine already told I'd read the second part before the first one. And I was --how to find the accurate adjective--- captured by the story. It was between "It's too much - stop reading" and "I want to know, how could they deal with it"
The story was focused on the psychological part - Do they have a future together ?

Then, I decided to read the first part of the story - I postponed my housework *g* - I shoudn't have done that :-( The main part of the story changed completely. It's only about their sexual relationship. Too bad.

For me Doyle isn't so insecure about his appearance. He's a confident, good looking man and he knows it.
I totally agree with you.

Why the hell don't Bodie explain what he did in Africa?
Maybe it isn't only black and white - it isn't explainable - especially not now. I am sure there are some incidents in his past, none can understand easely.

Cowley didn't say anything for a bit, then, very quietly, "Is that why he went to Johannesburg, Doyle? For nothing?"
That's Cowley and I love the meaning.
He bloody well knows, what Parker did to Bodie when he was trying to break Doyle in different ways. Yes, he did rape Bodie as well - emotionally.

Why can't he tell Bodie that he now knows that Bodie didn't rape anyone?
Are you sure ? He didn't ? He surely didn't do it as Parker did, but I am not sure when a game turns into severity......he often said, there are a lot of things he's not proud of.

All in all I must say it would never be one of my favourite stories, but it isn't an absolut no-go either.
Same with me - but the I still like the second part.

Thank you for hosting this story.

[macklingirl.livejournal.com]

Thank you for stopping by and reading when you hadn't so much time. :-)

The main part of the story changed completely. It's only about their sexual relationship. Too bad.
Yup, that's it. It's mostly about their sexual relationship. It seems there isn't much they do that don't lead to sex. Even when they meet Katrina it's only about sex between them. And when Bodie doesn't participate Doyle (to say it frankly) fucks her and goes to Bodie.

He bloody well knows, what Parker did to Bodie when he was trying to break Doyle in different ways. Yes, he did rape Bodie as well - emotionally.
I must admit I didn't see it that way, but it sounds logical for me. I have to think about that.

he often said, there are a lot of things he's not proud of.
Well, for me that didn't have to mean that he was the winner of the game. To play a game you need at least two person who play. One will be the winner and one will be the looser. And I think if Bodie was the looser he wouldn't be proud of it. And he wouldn't tell in the first place. Maybe he would think that Doyle would never believe him that he lost-

[cim3745.livejournal.com]

And I think if Bodie was the looser he wouldn't be proud of it. And he wouldn't tell in the first place. Maybe he would think that Doyle would never believe him that he lost-

My brain is working now............You are right - it could have been this way too. I love it, when the story gives you something to think about and more than one option is possible as well.

[firlefanzine.livejournal.com]

"I must admit, the torture scene was nearly to much for me. I don't mind rough scenes in a milde way, but this was very intense..."

As I said earlier, I haven't read the first half of the story completely. And reading your comment, I must say, I'm glad about that!!!
What is it that authors like to dive so deeply into such things???


"Why the hell don't Bodie explain what he did in Africa? He is hurt and angry with Doyle for coming to the wrong conclusion,..."

But... are the conclusions really wrong??? I really must reread these parts. Does 'playing the game' can also mean as the victim?
I personally would say that the word 'playing' means that you're in some kind of control, or am I wrong?


"Do you like the story (and why)? Or is it a no-go story for you? Would you recommend it? Am I to fussy again? Let's talk about it."

I wouldn't say 'a no-go story'. But I don't like torture! Fullstop.
No, I wouldn't recommend it.

And surely you'r not fussy saying your opinion! :-)

Thanks again!

[macklingirl.livejournal.com]

But... are the conclusions really wrong??? I really must reread these parts. Does 'playing the game' can also mean as the victim?
I personally would say that the word 'playing' means that you're in some kind of control, or am I wrong?

I think yes, it is the wrong conclusion. I always understood The Game as something two person played over in Africa. They had to fight and the winner took it all, means he raped the looser of the fight. Why do you think that playing means you are in some kind of control? It only means that you think you are in control.

But of course my thinking about The Game my result from reading to many stories in which the author writes about it. In some stories they say that it was a fight between two or more mercanaries and that the looser had to take everything the others wanted to dish out.

Thanks again for reading and commenting. :-)

[jat-sapphire.livejournal.com]

When I first started reading in this fandom, I ran across a higher level of drastic injury, torture, and rape than I was used to. Having read more and thought more, I think it's not as widespread as I first thought, but the stories that involve graphic violence concentrate that violence so much.

I appreciate and will think more about the historically changing value of rape that you discussed, and I think you're right that it influenced both how the writer and the readers interact with the story, but I think I won't read this again and would not pick it out to recommend.

[macklingirl.livejournal.com]

Thanks for your honest words. And I think you're right, you know? There are many stories about drastic injury, violence, torture and rape. But I think most of them are really old. I have the feeling that in newer stories it isn't so much any more.

[jat-sapphire.livejournal.com]

I think you're right about newer stories. I wonder why the older ones are so violent.

[gilda-elise.livejournal.com]

I'm of two minds about this story, mostly because I couldn't always see the Lads. I'm not sure if it was because I couldn't see them acting a certain way, or because their speech seemed off, but something was amiss.

I didn't have a problem with the rape scene, though I thought it did go a bit overboard, but the quickness of Doyle's recovery surprised me. Was it because he was angry that he behaved the way he did toward Bodie? None of it had to do with the actual trauma of the rape?

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

because I couldn't always see the Lads
Yes - I agree with this! I couldn't always see them either - especially in the way they reacted to Parker. We see them fight back against everything so hard in the eps, but they seemed to give into him here, or something. I know Bodie tried to get the shoe, and Doyle killed Katrina in the end, but... I dunno, something wasn't right. Maybe there was too much "please don't hurt him!" said out loud. And their actions when they were going out there with Katrina seemed off too - although I think that's partly because the trip seemed off too. England's not so big that they would have had no idea where they were going - they'd've seen road signs, and known the road directions to start with at least. Unless they fell asleep in the car - but even then you'd pass a road sign fairly soon that would give you a clue!

I'm not sure about the quickness of Doyle's recovery - wasn't he at home drinking for a week, and had to be bullied back into action by Cowley? Maybe he focused on his anger with Bodie as a way of distracting from his trauma at the rape...

[macklingirl.livejournal.com]

although I think that's partly because the trip seemed off too
That's what I meant when I said that I don't understand that they went with her without knowing were to. They would have known where they were. And I'm sure they would have told HQ.

[gilda-elise.livejournal.com]

I think distraction would only last so long. Eventually, Doyle would have to deal with it, and definitely before he went back to having sex...with anyone.

England's not so big that they would have had no idea where they were going - they'd've seen road signs, and known the road directions to start with at least.

I don't know, Anne and I ended up in the Yorkshire Moors and had no idea where we were. And that was with a sat nav! *g*

[macklingirl.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure if it was because I couldn't see them acting a certain way, or because their speech seemed off, but something was amiss.
Ah, that could be the reason for the problem I had. I couldn't put a finger on it, but it might be the speech.

...though I thought it did go a bit overboard, but the quickness of Doyle's recovery surprised me.
You mean the quick recovery when Katrina tries to kill Bodie, right? Well, that surprised me too but then I thought "okay, he has some rest feelings about Bodie and don't want him killed." But all in all I think that nobody who is beaten up and raped so badly would be able to get up, come behind another person without giving a sound and kill her.

Or did you mean the recovery in the end. I think that took nearly a week, didn't it?

[gilda-elise.livejournal.com]

I meant the emotional recovery at the end. I would think that it would take longer than a week to get over being raped. And I agree with you about Doyle not being able to get up so soon after being beaten and raped.

[livejournal.livejournal.com]

Hello! Your entry got to top-25 of the most popular entries in LiveJournal!
Learn more about LiveJournal Ratings in FAQ (https://www.dreamwidth.org/support/faqbrowse?faqid=303).

[macklingirl.livejournal.com]

Thanks to all who made that possible. :-)

[paris7am.livejournal.com]

Wonderful hosting, macklingirl! And wonderful commentary. Oooph, this one is like getting repeatedly punched in the gut. Not easy to read. Makes me very uncomfortable and uneasy.
Torture and rape - obviously heavy, awful things - and this is one of the stories that really goes deep into it. The psychological torture of helplessness, of being unable to protect or fight back... It's terrible.
I appreciate the thoughts about how rape is handled here, and in stories written around this time. I think that BSL's thoughts about it are spot on. It is incredibly jarring for me to read stories where rape is bandied about. But it was a different time, had different implications. Still, not something I prefer to have come up in fic!
I was hoping Shooting2kill had commented, because I think she usually gets right to the heart of what is going on, what I can't seem to put my finger on that makes me feel something is wrong. As she generally will remind me, it's inequality. The relationship works because of their match, the way they balance each other out, strength for strength - they are equals. Here, they are imbalanced right from the start, and it gets worse.
The way they feel about each other, the strength of emotion in the beginning, followed by the realization that they are still seeing women really made my heart drop, it made me feel disappointed in them. Probably unreasonable, I know, but I had forgotten that aspect of the plot.
PR is such a skilled writer - she's truly excellent. Professional Dreamer is one of my top 5 of all time. She doesn't back down from writing incredibly difficult and uncomfortable scenarios, that is certain. And she doesn't seem to mind leaving readers uncomfortable, or dissatisfied, or itching - can't quite think of the right word, but I think you know what I mean. Like there is some strand of the story that if you could just figure out which one, you could give it a twist and "fix" the story... [Pls forgive typos, posting on phone...]

[macklingirl.livejournal.com]

Sorry for answering so late. RL was a bit busy.

Thank you for the compliment about the hosting. :-)

Yes, I know what you mean with this story going deep into the torture and rape and I think that was one of the reasons why I wasn't so happy with it. It still was to much.

what I can't seem to put my finger on that makes me feel something is wrong.
That's like I feel. I know something is wrong for me, but I can't tell you what it is.

Maybe PR wanted the reader to discuss the story? If that was the intent it was perfect. We did discuss.