In mourning: Kate Maclean's Redemption (major spoilers ahead)

[noblesentiments.livejournal.com]

OK. It's official. I've just finished reading Redemption and once again I find myself wandering in that same old wildnerness i.e. lost and depressed because I've just experienced greatness and I miss them, I want to be in the story with them and I wish it had gone on and on and on and what else can I possibly read now which will satisfy me in the same way? I know that nothing is perfect and there's always room for different interpretations, critiques etc., but for some reason this story kept me spellbound, was an on the edge-of-your-seat page turner and I just didn't. want. to. finish. it.

And, there was something else I came here to say...........oh yeah, I don't suppose anyone is up for a discussion on this? Someone who can try and help me understand why pages and pages of Bodie suffering and consuming dispirins at will, should turn out to be such a riveting read?

Comments

[londonronnie.livejournal.com]

I've just experienced greatness and I miss them, I want to be in the story with them and I wish it had gone on and on and on

I know exactly what you mean. It's only happened to me with a handful of stories, but it is a real sense of loss, isn't it. I think it's a good indication of the fact that you've just read a truly great story. Maybe not everybody's idea of a great story - one man's meat, and all that - but one which you've personally connected with and which has really pushed all your buttons.

why pages and pages of Bodie suffering and consuming dispirins at will, should turn out to be such a riveting read?

It's the quality of the writing, IMHO. In this particular case I felt that KM really got under his skin and conveyed his feelings perfectly to the reader. I felt as though I'd gone through everything with him, and I don't mind admitting that I shed a few tears on several occasions while I was reading.

And now that I've thought about it I've just convinced myself to go and read it again...

[shooting2kill.livejournal.com]

Yes, the quality of the writing has to be a part of it.....I had complete confidence in Kate Maclean's writing, felt she was very sure-footed and wouldn't put a foot wrong i.e. no plot holes etc. But, equally, other stories can be very well written and they don't captivate me as much, so I think there has to be a bit more, but *what* I don't know.

I felt as though I'd gone through everything with him

Yeah, I felt wrung out at the end.

And now that I've thought about it I've just convinced myself to go and read it again...

I think a few people are doing that! I might move on to Yellow Brick Road (again) just for the alternative point of view then return to Redemption......

And I'm wondering, when Doyle first appears on the scene and seems to be quite callous towards Bodie and his obvious suffering and colluding with Cowley, did that irritate you and make you think this just isn't the Doyle *I* recognise? I felt that for ages, but then, gradually, I began to think (or realise) that that portrayal was purely the way Bodie was seeing things at that time i.e. it was Bodie's own (paranoid) perception of things.

Redemption - contains spoilers!

[londonronnie.livejournal.com]

And I'm wondering, when Doyle first appears on the scene and seems to be quite callous towards Bodie and his obvious suffering and colluding with Cowley, did that irritate you and make you think this just isn't the Doyle *I* recognise? I felt that for ages, but then, gradually, I began to think (or realise) that that portrayal was purely the way Bodie was seeing things at that time i.e. it was Bodie's own (paranoid) perception of things.

Maybe we ought to add a spoiler space here... *g*
~
~
~
~
~
~
~
Yes, this did strike me at first. It wasn't until I started to get a bit of a niggle in the back of my mind that there was something dodgy about Bodie's wife, and then realised that he was completely blind to any faults that she might have, that it dawned on me that our view of Doyle and, to a lesser extent, Cowley was being coloured by all the hurt and anguish that Bodie was suffering. As you say, we were seeing them through his eyes at a time when he was really struggling.

Another example of KM's brilliant writing IMHO - during those first days after Doyle's reappearance in Bodie's life it was so easy to imagine how Bodie was almost enclosed in a sort of emotional cocoon; going through his everyday routine like an automaton, and never being able to break free into a real awareness of what was going on around him. It really did tear me apart at times.

[przed.livejournal.com]

And I'm wondering, when Doyle first appears on the scene and seems to be quite callous towards Bodie and his obvious suffering and colluding with Cowley, did that irritate you and make you think this just isn't the Doyle *I* recognise?

Actually one of the many things I found marvelous about Redemption is that KM's put in little clues very early on that Doyle *isn't* callous. That in fact he cares quite a bit about Bodie. (Just a few instances: Doyle telling Nic he hadn't romanticised what he's been missing about England, clearly meaning Bodie; Doyle telling Bodie that he doesn't want to disappoint his mum anymore, but again, he also doesn't want to disappoint Bodie; and my fave, Doyle telling Bodie in the pub that he's still in love, but not being given the chance to tell Bodie just *who* he's in love with.) But he's such a stiff necked bastard that he can't/won't come right out and say anything. And Bodie's too wrapped up in his own pain that he can only read Doyle's actions and words in the worst possible light. Bodie is an entirely unreliable narrator for most of the novel, but KM gives you just enough to work with that you can see the things that Bodie can't.

[shooting2kill.livejournal.com]

Doyle telling Bodie in the pub that he's still in love, but not being given the chance to tell Bodie just *who* he's in love with.) But he's such a stiff necked bastard that he can't/won't come right out and say anything. And Bodie's too wrapped up in his own pain that he can only read Doyle's actions and words in the worst possible light. Bodie is an entirely unreliable narrator for most of the novel, but KM gives you just enough to work with that you can see the things that Bodie can't

I agree with all of this and yes, I also love the time when Doyle says that he's 'still in love' but poor Bodie is so depressed, paranoid with no sense of his own self-worth that he can't hear him. I think that must be very clever writing when the reader realises that she/he has heard that comment but the character hasn't.

[metabolick.livejournal.com]

I haven't read Redemption yet, though I plan to correct that omission shortly. But the same feelings gripped me after reading Heat Trace. In that case it was pages and pages of Doyle suffering. As londonronnie says, I felt as though I'd gone through everything with him. Truly it is the quality of the writing.

[shooting2kill.livejournal.com]

Yes! I know exactly what you mean as Heat Trace has always been my lodestar when it comes to judging stories. It had been years since I found a story so absorbing and when I discovered Heat Trace it was like 'coming home' to the joy of reading. And afterwards, I was so down that I actually wrote to Helen Raven and told her she was responsible for my depression.....

[rosie55.livejournal.com]

I also wrote to Helen after finishing Heat Trace, which was one of the early Pros stories I read, to tell her that she had given me a real and slightly unsettling insight into severe depression. And it is another story which I return to periodically - though not if I'm feeling at all fragile myself!
And some writers seem able to add new but wholly believable dimensions to the characters which add considerably to my enjoyment.

[noblesentiments.livejournal.com]

And some writers seem able to add new but wholly believable dimensions to the characters which add considerably to my enjoyment.

Yeah....I'm not sure if I'm more impressed or seduced by the atmosphere created by certain writer - as opposed to original characterisations - the sub-text (though I'm never sure what that means), or what they manage to create between the lines i.e. in Helen Raven's case, at least, what is left unsaid by the writer and the characters...conversations hanging in the air, sentences terminated as if they're teetering on the edge of something massive....things which are implied rather than stated. I think Helen Raven is a master in this field and that's one of the things I love about her writing. And I think slantedlight has that gift as well.

[metabolick.livejournal.com]

I wrote to Helen, too, but not until after she posted on her lj about re-reading it again after all these years. It was fascinating to read her memories of writing it and her surprise at how many people are still getting pleasure out of that story.

[noblesentiments.livejournal.com]

What really surprised me was HR saying that after she'd written The Same River hardly anybody liked it, or said they liked it....except, I'm sure Sebastian wrote somewhere quite recently that it was her favourite Pros story.

[rosie55.livejournal.com]

When you commented the other day that you had 70 pages to read, I just had to get my copy out and see what you still had to read - and find myself irrationally envious that you still had all of that pleasure unfolding in front of you - So much still to read for the first time! So I've been waiting to see what else you had to say when you'd fnished it! And, as londonronnie so accurately pointed out in her comment on that entry, the reader (or certainly I) was kept guessing to the very end as the plot unfolds page by page.
A Pros classic - oh, yes, certainly for me, well up in my top five, maybe even top.
Amazing writing, and one great pleasure for me has been how quickly it bears, nay demands re-reading! faramir_boromir comments in her LJ that all the clues are there as you read, and she's right - it's very satisfying. The really good news, and which may help your mourning, is that this is one of those zines which is just as pleasurable, if not more so, to read second/third/fourth times because, once you're not aching to rush on and know what happens next, you can really savour the quality of the writing, the aforementioned clues, the sheer unputdownableness of it! Believe it or not, I actually think it is even better on second or third reading.
I'm not usually a Bodie girl but I really felt KM had got under Bodie's skin, really enabled me to feel his anguish and bewilderment and the resolution of which I will say no more for fear of spoiling it for folk who haven't read it yet! And I could feel for Doyle, too - as the layers of the story are delicately peeled back and the plot revealed. And KM manages to move the story from a point at the beginning where you can't see how this can possibly be resolved in any satisfying way - a tension she keeps up till practically the end. Mmm, shivers down my spine, must go re-read it - yet again....
So, yes, like you, I too wanted it to go on and yet on and at the same time, it was perfect and complete. So I just find myself picking it up again and again to savour it.

[shooting2kill.livejournal.com]

Ah, thanks for seeing it through with me, Rosie!

I think you're right and I *will* enjoy reading it more again, especially as one of my main sticking points was how cold Doyle and Cowley seemed to be towards Bodie and now I can see that they probably weren't being cold and it was just Bodie's perception of the situation, given how low he'd sunk.

I'm not usually a Bodie girl but I really felt KM had got under Bodie's skin, really enabled me to feel his anguish and bewilderment

Yeah, it's usually Doyle voicing all his emotions and being put through the emotional wringer....I'm not sure about the amount of turmoil he was made to experience...I don't know....*maybe* I can because he bottles things up so much. I did feel that perhaps a two year break wasn't long enough? That his marriage could have been longer and hence his separation from Doyle and all the changes between them might have been more likely if it was 5 years or so, but that's just me picking holes in perfection.

[rosie55.livejournal.com]

***Spoilers below!!*** Do not read if you have not yet read Redemption!!









I don't want to give away too much for those who haven't had the pleasure, but since you've mentioned the marriage.....! That was the thing I had in mind when I talked about the thing at the beginning which seemed couldn't be resolved - Bodie apparently happily married. (Apparently, of course, because it isn't long at all before the first tiny cracks start to appear!) I do remember almost a physical jolt reading page 2 when Bodie first refers to himself as Nic's husband!
To some extent I agree with you about the timing, two years didn't seem quite long enough, if that includes the weeks/months before Nic re-enters Bodie's life. But I think five years would be too long, given the intense/obsessive nature of Nic. Could she keep that up for long, especially as she is starting to try to tie Bodie down even more, which fits in completely with what is later revealed about her nature? And how long could Bodie keep up his facade of calm and detachment? Interesting!
Doyle and Cowley's treatment of Bodie. Mmmm, well, it was intriguing trying to work out quite what Cowley was at, especially with his history of triple think and manipulation of the lads in canon. KM kept me guessing most successfully with Doyle's state of mind until well into Safehouse 5 territory when so many things drop into place! And, however badly Doyle has behaved in the past, his anguish was quite convincing for me.
Of all the characters, I think the one I felt most sorry for by the end was Sylvie who was blameless in the whole thing but with the least options and the greatest losses, it seemed to me.

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

I did feel that perhaps a two year break wasn't long enough? That his marriage could have been longer and hence his separation from Doyle and all the changes between them might have been more likely if it was 5 years or so, but that's just me picking holes in perfection.

But anythng long than that would have been a) too painful -- thinking of all that lost time, and b) too unbelievable that Doyle and even Cowley would just leave Bodie in that state. In particular you want to believe that Doyle would show a little initiative in winning his heart's desire.

[shooting2kill.livejournal.com]

I couldn't find the post in Faramir Boromir's LJ - was it posted recently?

[rosie55.livejournal.com]

I'll reply to this one first - for speed. It was on the 8th August. Headed "Gutted by fic"!

[miwahni.livejournal.com]

The more I read about this zine, the more I need to read it. Could somebody please supply details of where it can be ordered?
Thanks in advance.

[noblesentiments.livejournal.com]

I think the publisher likes people to go through Proslib, then the 'files' section, then 'publishers' under Gryphon Novels.

[miwahni.livejournal.com]

Thank you for this. I've tried very hard not to read too much of this discussion, only enough to pique my interest. I'll come back here once I've read the zine.

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

And, there was something else I came here to say...........oh yeah, I don't suppose anyone is up for a discussion on this? Someone who can try and help me understand why pages and pages of Bodie suffering and consuming dispirins at will, should turn out to be such a riveting read?

I think she has a rare grasp of male psychology -- and a real gift for characterization. Plus her style is clean and uncluttered which makes it vastly readable. I think very few fic writers could pull off this kind of emotional wallow without the reader losing patience and respect for the POV character. She does it brilliantly.

Now someone convince her to go back to writing Pros!

[noblesentiments.livejournal.com]

I think she has a rare grasp of male psychology

...do you mean the psycology of Bodie *and* Doyle? Or just Bodie....the way he bottles things up so much (hence the headaches and dispirin) or the amount of fretting he does? Is this typical male behaviour and if so, would you say Doyle's behaviour i.e often being more volatile and emotional (probably more so in other stories) is not typical at all for a man? (And gross generaliations *are* permitted here).

I think very few fic writers could pull off this kind of emotional wallow without the reader losing patience and respect for the POV character. She does it brilliantly.

I completely agree I found myself almost wallowing in things I wouldn't normally seek out and almost devouring it, page by page.

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

...do you mean the psycology of Bodie *and* Doyle? Or just Bodie....the way he bottles things up so much (hence the headaches and dispirin) or the amount of fretting he does? Is this typical male behaviour and if so, would you say Doyle's behaviour i.e often being more volatile and emotional (probably more so in other stories) is not typical at all for a man? (And gross generaliations *are* permitted here).

I mean her writing in general. I mean, the focus is emotions and romance, so obviously it's a little more het up than ordinary masculine behavior.

But if you analyze this particular work -- part of what happens with Doyle is Bodie's fault. That neurotic jealous insecurity, the constant suspicion, the obsessive behavior. I'm not saying that's normal, because I think her point is that Bodie is not normal in his feelings for Doyle. He's off-kilter and he's doing everything wrong in his panic. And the things he does are guaranteed to drive someone like Doyle further away. Doyle's reaction is normal. To me anyway. He starts to panic as well. He feels trapped and he starts to push for breathing room. Guys don't tend to be gentle or tactful about this. They tend to shove hard.

And the more we feel, the harder we shove.

And the more Doyle shoves, the more panicky and clingy Bodie gets -- she showed that very well without making Bodie seem weak or unmasculine.

The later stuff where Doyle seems so cool...I forget now who mentioned that this is merely Bodie's perception. That's exactly right, because later we see that Doyle is anything but cool. Later he even reveals what he was thinking and feeling at certain moments when he seemed so very cool and in control.

That's the beauty of that distorted third person POV. Used correctly it's a great way to throw the reader off the scent, and then when everything flips back into focus...! It's like looking at the negative of a photo where everything seems reversed.

I'm not sure I answered your question?

[runriggers.livejournal.com]

Where can I find this story?

[noblesentiments.livejournal.com]

I think the publisher likes people to go through Proslib, then the 'files' section, then 'publishers' under Gryphon Novels.