AUs in the Pros community--discussion

[faramir-boromir.livejournal.com]

Hi, all. You may have been reading the panel reports that I've been posting about CQ in my LJ and over on the CQ yahoo group as well. If not, go read 'em, and enjoy!

It occurred to me that I didn't have notes on a panel that I very much enjoyed---why do you think the Professionals has so many good AU stories---I think I was blasted on Sunday morning and had lost the will to write, hence no notes. Then I realized, there's no reason that discussion couldn't go on here, at ci5hq. gblvr got the ball rolling in the panel discussion, and I'll borrow the three things that I do remember from the panel to get things started.

1) If you look at the total number of stories archived at the Circuit and click the "only AU" stories option, you get about 7% of all the stories. So on the whole, there don't seem to be many AUs in the fandom.

2) Yet, if you ask somebody to rec in the Pros fandom, within the first few recs, they'll be saying, 'oh, but you need to read this AU.'

3) One comment that was offered by flamingoslim at the con was that, back in the day, Pros picked up AUs that were scorned by the Starsky/Hutch fandom early on. As one of the oldest fandoms, she suggested, authors who felt closed out of one fandom moved over to another and went wild.

So, why the contradiction? Compared to other fandoms, Pros has very few AUs, but some are notably (and worthily) famous. And which AUs would you automatically rec to others? And what elements make for a successful AU, using Pros characters?

Comments

[faramir-boromir.livejournal.com]

London is definitely a character (I've already said that elsewhere in this thread, but thanks for repeating it), and somehow, I feel a bit cheated when the city is missing from a story--an AU set elsewhere has to work that much harder to hold me.

I agree that each fandom creates its own sort of vibe, such that the AUs in one fandom don't seem to match those in another. I brought this up at CQ, saying that the AUs in QAF turn on things like disabilities (major character is blind, deaf) or end up age-inverted (young Justin is now older than Brian and his teacher), while those in Pros are more likely to be far out (outer space, that is, or circuses, or camel backs, or whatever). I happen to like The Cook and the Warehouseman very much, but I was told by others that they didn't, couldn't stand it, so as with all AUs, YMMV.

Interesting that your plot bunnies in Pros are canon ones. So far, I can say the same about me. Maybe that will change with time. But it's an interesting observation about the differences between fandoms.

[faramir-boromir.livejournal.com]

I think you're on to something here about AUs, which is the same for me: since the setting has been changed (sort of like altering the background on a stage), the characterization has to be that much stronger. I **need** Bodie and Doyle, since they've now been shot into outer space or dumped in Arabia.

Having said that, Master of the Revels just didn't work for me. Perhaps if I had seen the film with Shaw in it, that would make a difference, but I didn't get much Bodie and Doyle characterization from the story. Ah well. I'm glad you enjoyed it, though.

Maybe you could tell me what precisely you enjoyed about MotR? Was it the strong story, the plot in particular?

Re: Pros AU

[shooting2kill.livejournal.com]

Why is it that in AUs, Doyle's character is the one that seems to suffer the most, by being taken OOC? Is it the merc background that makes Bodie's character less flexible?

Yeah, I think I'm asking something similar above when I wonder why it is that writers in AUs seem to manipulate Doyle's character more than Bodie's. I'm really not sure of the answer....perhaps, as you suggest, that being an ex-mercenary Bodie appears more stoical, monosyllabic, unbending etc., whereas Doyle seems more volatile and so with him the writer is presented with a wider range of emotions and therefore more material to experiment with.....?

I was surprised to fall in love with Arabian Nights because I usually like really gritty, dark, realistic, melancholy kind of stories.

Re: Pros AU

[faramir-boromir.livejournal.com]

I think that's it. Bodie's brooding, almost austere behavior makes him seem less flexible as a character (imagine reversing the positions, with Doyle as the sheik and Bodie as the novice in the desert?? Impossible).

I also prefer grit, darkness and realism. I think that's why Pros keeps me interested. I don't think I'll run out of stories in this vein for a very long time!

Have you [completely unrelated] ever read the dystopic saga penned by ms_manna called The Administration? You might want to give it a try. As original fiction, it is some of the most amazing writing I've come across.

[sc-fossil.livejournal.com]

There was a lively debate on MOTR on Pros-lit, which was quite enjoyable. People have strong opinions on the story both pro and con. And the author did tell the group that she is now editing the story and will post it when it's finished. It was very interesting to hear from her that it was written in chapters which were sent out on the circuit. Then the raw chapters were just gathered up and published. So there will be a shiny, edited story from HG in the future.

Personally, I think Galen was very close to Bodie. Zax was what I'd classify as a damaged Doyle who recovers into more of the Doyle I love. That is enough to send people running away right there! But I could see Doyle in Zax.

Actually, it was the entire story that sucked me right in. I was prepared not to like it because of the strong opinions people have about it, but inside of the first few pages, I couldn't put it down. It did take me at least two weeks to read that tiny print! My old eyeballs needed a break.

There were slow spots and spots I didn't like, but overall, I was quite entertained and wanted to know what would happen next. I liked the story line and the relationship that built between the main characters. There were times when I wanted to beat both of them with a very large board when they both clammed up or did something stupid. There were too many misunderstandings I felt when I'd first read it and it bogged down the story line at times, but once I found out about the way it was written, I'm able to overlook those things and look forward to the edited story.

Again, the zine is beautiful which makes me very happy since I bought it based on art before I'd known anything about the story. And I've yet to see the movie, but I hope to get my hands on a copy one of these days.

Re: Pros AUs - Novels, part 2

[kiwisue.livejournal.com]

Pam liked to write for her friends. I know that she wrote Arabian Nights because a friend wanted a romance set in Arabia.

That's really interesting - thank you. There's a whole other topic in that - what motivates people to write! I was told, by someone who knows her from the early days, that Meg Lewtan also wrote her historical AU's because her friend & editor really liked them, so maybe that's a common thread?

I love Paper Flowers. Although he appears as a hooker, Doyle's background and character aren't that far from canon - as Bodie notices! *g* I also loved Alchemist's Measure but was dissatisfied with the sequel. It does feel unfinished, now you mention it.

Thanks again!

Re: Pros AU

[sc-fossil.livejournal.com]

We see Doyle suffering a lot more in canon, so maybe it just transfers to the fanfic. We know what he looks like in pain, bleeding, etc. whereas Bodie isn't hurt nearly as much. And we know Bodie's tougher. Heck, in Klansmen, the poor guy didn't even rate an IV. Just toughed out a stabbing and (apparently) a fever with no meds in sight. How that takes balls. LOL!

Re: Pros AU

[shooting2kill.livejournal.com]

I think that's it. Bodie's brooding, almost austere behavior makes him seem less flexible as a character

Oh, well put. That's what I was *trying* to say!

I've never heard of The Administration saga before - it looks really interesting so thanks for that

Pro's AU writers

[jagr1968.livejournal.com]

Regarding flamingoslim's suggestion that authors who felt closed out or scorned by S/H fandom for their AU's moved over to Pro's and went wild there. Many of the early and best Pro's writers came not from S/H but straight from Star Trek, which abounded with AU's. English writers such as: HG, Sebastian, and O Yardley all started with Trek and struggled to write American sounding dialogue. When Pro's came along, they happily embraced a fandom where they could write "British-isms" to their heart's content and took their AU's with them. Many of the first American Pro's writers also came from fandoms other than S/H. If I remember rightly, Anne Carr and Lainie Stone came from Dr. Who; Pam, Lezlie, Thomas, and Courtney Gray all came from Trek.

Re: Pros AU

[faramir-boromir.livejournal.com]

Not only is New London dystopic in The Administration, but there's a fair bit (read: lots) of BD going on in that series--handcuffs, submissiveness and so on. The psychology of the whole series is amazing. Give "Mind Fuck" (the first of the series) a try and let me know what you think.

Re: Pro's AU writers

[faramir-boromir.livejournal.com]

Thank you for this information! The first I heard of this theory was at CQ, and once I considered it for a while, the idea had some clout. What I lacked was data to confirm it. Of course the British-isms would be a problem in Trek, plus Trek...well, every episode in Trek might be considered AU. So in that sense, Pros would be a very good place to go and take that creativity. Much appreciated!

[faramir-boromir.livejournal.com]

Thanks for your points about why you like the story so much. Bodie did seem more Bodie-like in the story than Doyle, and I think Doyle/Zax is what threw me out of the narrative: I have a hard time with people who write Doyle as anything like damaged or somehow less competent than he is in the series. But it's good to know why others love it so. I'll have to go read back in Pros-lit to find the thread you're talking about, and see what others have to say about it.

Re: Pros AU

[faramir-boromir.livejournal.com]

Oh, good point. Bodie takes the knives, Doyle takes the bullets. We see Doyle on crutches and with his ribs taped up, and half dead from heart surgery, but Bodie? The Energizer Bunny's got nothing on him! Balls is right!

Re: Pro's AU writers

[kiwisue.livejournal.com]

Of course the British-isms would be a problem in Trek

So in the future American culture and American idiom will have taken over the universe? *g*

Re: Pro's AU writers

[faramir-boromir.livejournal.com]

Nah. I fully expect the Southern Hemisphere to survive the nuclear holocaust when the North decides to do something idiotic. So you can look forward to Kirk and McCoy saying "g'day" in the 23rd century. *g* Or do only Aussies say "g'day"? Kiwi version?

Re: Pro's AU writers

[kiwisue.livejournal.com]

You'd be fine using 'g'day' in either place. Australian usage is a little more vowel heavy: "g'daay, maate". If you're a member of the Australian Labor Party you can add another 'a' to "maaate" *g*.

[callistosh65.livejournal.com]

since the setting has been changed (sort of like altering the background on a stage), the characterization has to be that much stronger. I **need** Bodie and Doyle, since they've now been shot into outer space or dumped in Arabia. More than that, I find that I need the setting to reach out and grab me. In 'Harlequin Airs', Ellis Ward's Bodie and Doyle are as Bodie and Doyle as they are in 'And Memories Die'. Yet I skim read all the circus bits in one, and savour every single word of the other. Likewise, in 'Legacy of Temptation', where neither has so much as a toe print in CI5, the setting/plot enthrall me, as much as say, a distinctly recognisable Bodie and Doyle.

Outer Space, Ancient Rome and Arabia haven't really done it for me yet..*g*

Re: Pros AU

[noblesentiments.livejournal.com]

but there's a fair bit (read: lots) of BD going on in that series--handcuffs, submissiveness

Ah, right, I didn't realise. I can take very small doses of that kind of stuff (Kitty Fisher?) but too much and it just sends me to sleep. But I have bookmarked the link and will keep it in mind.

Thanks, again.

Re: Pros AU

[noblesentiments.livejournal.com]

Sorry, forgot to log out from Noble to Shooting

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Can I jump in and ask a QAF-related question? When you say QAF, do you mean the original UK QAF, or the US version? Or both? What I'm wondering is whether there's a difference in writing between those two different fandoms? Any difference in audience/age at all?

Re: Pros AU

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

imagine reversing the positions, with Doyle as the sheik and Bodie as the novice in the desert?? Impossible
What?! Says who?! It'd just be the different characters playing the roles, and therefore the story would change a bit for it, of course - Doyle'd be a very hot-tempered, quick-witted and determined sheik, Bodie'd be a stoic, brooding prisoner! Hmmn... *pauses to let imagination run riot*... I've got to say, I'm quite fancying the idea... *g*

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

*jumps in again* - sorry, not meaning to be hit-and-run-ish about this, serves me right for coming to the conversation too late!

I've only just read MotR, and it's still in my mind a little... I think I was trying to see Doyle in Zax as well at first, because Galen was Bodie - and certainly they're both the same physically. But I found that I was able to get into it much better when I remembered that Zax wasn't Doyle - Zax in the film is quite a horrible bloke, who deserves all that he gets, and he never quite loses that in the story, which is why it's hard to see him as Doyle to quite the same extent as in other Bodie/Doyle AUs... Zax and Galen are not completely supposed to be the lads that we love best! Zax is damaged to redeem him as a character, I rather think, not necessarily to turn him into Doyle - although because we do like him a bit better afterwards, it's a similar effect... Well, that's what I reckon! *g*

[faramir-boromir.livejournal.com]

What's interesting, beyond this, is the kinds of AUs that you see in each fandom. In QAF, you're more likely to see age-inversion fics (Justin older than Brian, Brian back in high school) or disability fics (Justin the artist, now blind). Perhaps I never found it, but you don't see a lot of outer space, or circuses, or the Middle East with that fandom. Which sort of begs the question, why are some AU settings more likely to turn up in one fandom than another?

[faramir-boromir.livejournal.com]

blkandwhtcat and I are talking about QAF US, although I've read for both fandoms (indeed, I saw QAF UK first, and think it's brilliant). I don't think, having scanned work on both sides of the pond, that the writing is much different, but I'm willing to be corrected. The most likely AUs that turn up in QAF are age-inversion and disability fics, or simple mobility fics (Justin the artist is now blind in the US; what if one of the leads moved to London?) You don't tend to see the more extreme AUs that turn up in Pros (outer space, circuses, the desert, Mexican ziggurats).

Re: Pros AU

[faramir-boromir.livejournal.com]

Let me ask this a slightly different way. Why is it that in a lot of AUs, Bodie's character is the one who seems to know what's going on, and it's Doyle's character who is so often in the dark? Professional Dreamers, Harlequin Airs, Arabian Nights, Batalla Ultima, Suitable Gravity, the Echo series--ok, we can call Whisper of a Kill a draw and Cook & the Warehouseman one that goes the other way--in an awful lot of AUs, it seems that Bodie's the one who more in charge, or more aware of what the real situation is, while Doyle's either suffering amnesia, being jerked around by Cowley, family members or outer space creatures. Isn't that connected to characterization? The sense that Bodie's character is more austere, brooding, whatever?