AUs in the Pros community--discussion

[faramir-boromir.livejournal.com]

Hi, all. You may have been reading the panel reports that I've been posting about CQ in my LJ and over on the CQ yahoo group as well. If not, go read 'em, and enjoy!

It occurred to me that I didn't have notes on a panel that I very much enjoyed---why do you think the Professionals has so many good AU stories---I think I was blasted on Sunday morning and had lost the will to write, hence no notes. Then I realized, there's no reason that discussion couldn't go on here, at ci5hq. gblvr got the ball rolling in the panel discussion, and I'll borrow the three things that I do remember from the panel to get things started.

1) If you look at the total number of stories archived at the Circuit and click the "only AU" stories option, you get about 7% of all the stories. So on the whole, there don't seem to be many AUs in the fandom.

2) Yet, if you ask somebody to rec in the Pros fandom, within the first few recs, they'll be saying, 'oh, but you need to read this AU.'

3) One comment that was offered by flamingoslim at the con was that, back in the day, Pros picked up AUs that were scorned by the Starsky/Hutch fandom early on. As one of the oldest fandoms, she suggested, authors who felt closed out of one fandom moved over to another and went wild.

So, why the contradiction? Compared to other fandoms, Pros has very few AUs, but some are notably (and worthily) famous. And which AUs would you automatically rec to others? And what elements make for a successful AU, using Pros characters?

Comments

[squeeful.livejournal.com]

I'll come back with a list later; it's far too early for me to think of them.

Pros exists in a very set and defined universe. Their world is comparatively limited in relation to other fandoms. This can either hinder the AU as too far outside of the original universe and you might as well be writing original fiction, but it can also help the AU as there is so much that is unknown in the series and anything outside that set realm is a mild AU that still lets you explore. The characters are shaped by their unusual experiences and taking those away or changing them makes it difficult to explain and keep their personalities. You'd have to rework them to fit the new universe and often they are the same but with a different locale.

[shooting2kill.livejournal.com]

This is such an interesting topic and I'm going to go away and give it some more thought. In the meantime, I thought I'd muddy the waters a bit and slip in an observation which I've made and that is: I wonder why it is that I and many people I know *hated* the idea of AUs when they first began reading Pros and then ended up accepting and enjoying them to the extent that many AUs have become firm favourites e.g. Harlequin Airs (though if I remember correctly Bodie's in Ci5 so it's semi-AU); Cook and the Warehouseman; Suitable Gravity; The Secrets Beneath; Professional dreamer; Arabian Nights; A Birdwatchers Guide to Cornish Ghosts. When I first took a look at Pam Rose's Arabian Nights I couldn't accept the idea of the Doyle she'd created but much later, looking again, I read it, loved the whole story and have since read it about 3 more times and it's now one of my top favourites. Anyway, just thought I'd mention it......... what was the orignal question, again?

[faramir-boromir.livejournal.com]

No, you're not muddying the waters. That's in fact what inspired the panel: how someone who was new to the fandom was introduced to it by being rec'd AUs, wasn't keen to read them, and ended up loving a lot of them. It happened to me as well.

You've named several of my favorite AUs, and I think that Harlequin Airs works particularly well, like Suitable Gravity, because there's the edge of danger in the story: the enemies, yes, but also the environment itself (trapeze act, no-oxygen surrounding). The grittiness of London, with its inherent dangers is something we tend not to focus on in the show, but it's that built-in threat that makes those two AUs my favorites as well.

[callistosh65.livejournal.com]

I wonder why it is that I and many people I know *hated* the idea of AUs when they first began reading Pros and then ended up accepting and enjoying them to the extent that many AUs have become firm favourites. :jumps up and down and points to self!: Yup, that's a pretty fair description of me. AUs will always be a hard sell, but I'm amazed how flexible I have become. I wish I had a coherent, articulate reason as to why I have come to accept -nay, LOVE - some AU fics in Pros, but I'm afraid I don't. On my firm favourites list are Ellis Ward's 'And Memories Die I and II', and her 'Legacy of Temptation'.(But not HA because the setting just didn't grab me). And Pamela Rose's 'Professional Dreamer', but not Arabian Nights ( setting again).

Perhaps then, the answer to why I've been converted to the idea of AUs in Pros, is in the ones that don't work for me - if the characters are recognisable but the *setting* just doesn't grab me, inspire me, etc, then it's doubtful I'll make it to the end, no matter how much I love the writer.

[faramir-boromir.livejournal.com]

Actually, they're both undercover: Doyle's CI5, though thinking about quitting, and Bodie's MI6, working for Willis and doesn't care for it, though you don't learn that until the end.

[blkandwhtcat.livejournal.com]

So, why the contradiction? Compared to other fandoms, Pros has very few AUs, but some are notably (and worthily) famous. And which AUs would you automatically rec to others? And what elements make for a successful AU, using Pros characters?

The Professionals is my first "slash," but I have read a lot of QAF fanfic (where the characters are gay and have relationships). Not only is the quality of TP fanfic much better, but I have also noticed there are not a lot of AU stories (which is fine with me, since I don't generally care for them). I thought the explanation seemed obvious. Unlike most TV shows that people are writing fanfic about, the world Bodie and Doyle live in is pretty exciting. Nobody needs to make up bad guys, dangerous situations, or near-fatal injuries, because all of that is canon. I haven't seen the show (only read recaps and manifestos about the guys), but it seems that there is are also a lot of other things that the fanfic writers have to work with that exist in canon - the idea that the partnership is "like a marriage," hints of diverse but interesting backgrounds for both guys, and a teasing, physically affectionate, almost flirtatious relationship between the two characters as played by Shaw and Collins. Not to mention a psychiatrist who delves into their psyches, interesting minor characters, undercover work, shoot-outs, kidnappings, etc. There is so much more to work with in the CI5 universe than in a show grounded in the day-to-day lives of characters like on QAF, where the most dramatic events were a bashing in the last episode of season 1, and a bombing near the end of the last season, both to reflect the very real homophobia that exists in the USA, and thus really more of an important political/social statement than a development of the characters (which is obvious by how the aftermath of both incidents, particularly the bashing, were so poorly dealt with).

As I said, I don't really care much for AUs, but when they are done well, they are brilliant. My favorite, no contest, is "Professional Dreamer" by Pamela Rose. It's humorous, clever and charming, it brilliantly incorporates canon events, and the author nails the characters of both men in a different world (two, actually, since the canon characters are reflected in Bodie's books, and in Ray's confused mind, but we also see the characters in their AU counterparts of Phillip and Ray Dibble).

I would rec Lois Welling's "Whisper of a Kill" as my other number one AU, but I don't really consider it an AU. Although Bodie comes to CI5 at a different time, the story remains firmly entrenched in the CI5 world, with all the usual players. Does that make it AU? Regardless, it's a brilliant fic, and the opening scenes are some of my favorite in all the fanfic I've read.

The other AUs I like - well written stories like "Harlequin Airs" - may move to an alterate universe in some ways, but they adhere to the basic premise of the show, which is that Bodie and Doyle are undercover agents in elite law enforcement agencies, and are fighing the bad guys. Why improve on a winning formula?

[shooting2kill.livejournal.com]

I think the point you make about the world of Ci5 vs. QAF is a good one: that there's only so much going on in the QAF world which is of interest whereas canon Pros has much more potential for exciting scenarios (because that world *is* more exciting} so there really isn't the same need for AUs (even though I like them).

[faramir-boromir.livejournal.com]

Like you, I also came from QAF (and before that LOTR). The fanfic in Pros is--to my untrained eye--so much better in quality than in QAF that there's practically no comparison. I have a theory about that, that 30 years ago, the training in writing essays and polished prose was at a much higher level by secondary school age, simply because the smart women of the 40s and 50s had three career choices: nurse, teacher, or librarian. The ones who picked teacher trained a generation of folks who had good writing habits beaten into their skulls, or else. The bar for good writing got set very very high with the early fandoms, and has remained that way. But that's for a different discussion.

I think the AU possibilities in QAF are simply much slimmer. Brian in high school? Justin older and richer than Brian? Mpreg? Beyond domestic fic or reversing their ages, or giving Justin an incurable disease or blindness, there's just not the range of AUs that you find in Pros. Perhaps that's because the show QAF was all about celebrating the luv, and the relationships that did exist. The soap operatic qualities limit the genre, ultimately. Whereas in Pros, the slash is read both with and against the grain, and the violent background setting makes for that many more possibilities.

I'm amazed that you've gone so far having seen no episodes of Pros. That's incredible.

[metabolick.livejournal.com]

My mate krisserci5 and I were discussing this panel the other day. My first question was, "What constitutes an AU?" Does a story set in the CI5 universe but only one of the lads is in CI5 qualify? Heat Trace would be an example of this (Bodie is in CI5 but Doyle never is). I was surprised at the low figure cited, but answer to the question may have something to do with it.

I agree with blkandwhtcat's last line. This is the type of AU that I enjoy; thus, my fave AU is "Suitable Gravity."

[faramir-boromir.livejournal.com]

Precisely. At bottom, in Suitable Gravity, they are still competent, equals, and capable of surviving great danger. It's one of my faves too.

I'm not sure what you do with a half-in, half-out scenario, like Whisper of a Kill. It feels like an AU some of the time, since Bodie is being put in situations we don't expect, the setting is Africa for most of the story, and his mindset as an assassin (ex-assassin) isn't precisely what we know and love about him from the show. I guess I'd call it half an AU, since Doyle and Cowley seem to come straight from central casting.

[smirra.livejournal.com]

I always get a strange feeling with this setting Bodie in CI5 and Doyle a Police officer, like: this setting is right and the series with Doyle in CI5 is wrong! It's that believable to me, especially when it's so competently done as in "Heat Trace", that I hardly consider it as an AU. With their characters Bodie is more the CI5 man to me as Doyle is. Probably just me feeling this way, but as there are a number of stories with this setting it seems to be believable enough for some. I also like the distance the lads get this way.

Pros AU

[taverymate.livejournal.com]

The questions around AUs in Pros are very, very interesting (and I'll come back to them), but I have a problem with your reasoning here:

If you look at the total number of stories archived at the Circuit and click the "only AU" stories option, you get about 7% of all the stories. So on the whole, there don't seem to be many AUs in the fandom.

First, you only looked at those stories that are found in the Circuit Archive. While the "only AU" search option returns 135 stories out of the 1695 total stories archive (8%), it is NOT a sound assumption to then claim that "So on the whole, there don't seem to be many AUs in the fandom."

There are many, many stories that are not yet found on the The Circuit Archive, and many that will (sadly) likely never be archived for a variety of reasons. Some stories are found only on Proslib, where authors have refused permission to archive online. Many, many other stories are found only in zines, not in Proslib or the two archives. The Circuit Archive represents a significant chunk of Pros fan fiction, but you cannot claim it is representative. You cannot take The Circuit Archive (marvellous as it is!) and use it as a stand-in for the entire Pros ouvre.

If you look at Pen's Pros AU list at The Hatstand Archive, you will find over 450 stories listed; again, many are not found on Proslib or The Circuit Archive or The Hatstand Archive. There's no way to reliably give a figure for what percentage of total Pros stories that AU list represents.

I doubt that the number of all existing Pros stories is actually known, though you might eventually get closer to a figure by going back and cross-referencing all the various story lists available (Sharon's, Lily's, Pen's, early Pros paper lending library, etc.) over the years against Proslib and the two main archives. That would be a monumental task, however.

My gut feeling (notoriously unscientific *g*) is that AUs could represent anywhere from 5% to 33% of Pros stories in numbers of stories. But it's not just the number of stories (even if it were known - which it is not) that need to be considered. It's th story length and impact/influence of the stories on other works and the fandom as a whole that must be examined.

And I must run, but I want to comment more so will hope to return later today.

Re: Pros AU

[faramir-boromir.livejournal.com]

Great points. Just to clarify, the 7% figure wasn't mine, but was used to kick off the panel, so I was quoting.

You're right to note that the Circuit doesn't have everything and probably never will. I never expected (coming from two purely online fandoms) to start buying zines, and now I've got something like 80+ because that's the only way to get the stories within them. So you're right, the fannish creativity certainly exceeds one archive's ability to contain it.

I think your point--that it's not the number but the impact/influence of the stories on other works and the fandom as a whole--is absolutely right. I remain amazed at how central the AUs are in Pros fandom. At CQ, we briefly discussed whether the fantastic artwork connected with some of them (HAirs, Whisper of a Kill) might have something to do with the popularity, but you have only to look at Suitable Gravity (no art, just plain story, yet cited repeatedly as a favorite) to see that that can't be the only answer. It's the quality of the storywriting, above all else, that gets me. These are incredibly well-written, creative, impressive works with stories that grab us by the throats and won't let go.

I'd add that the ones I like best (like Suitable Gravity, HAirs) also put the Lads into a dangerous setting on a regular basis--trapeze act, tigers, no-oxygen, plus the bad guys--such that the adrenaline rush is central and repeated. It isn't just the slash, it's the context for the story. Relatively tame AUs do a lot less for me. But YMMV.

[mab-browne.livejournal.com]

I had a think about this in another context a while back, where I was looking at AUs in my main fandom of The Sentinel (which has a lot of AUs).

In comparison to some fandoms,we don't know a great deal about B and D's backstories, and so maybe the setting becomes more important as a way of defining the characters. In a way, I sometimes feel as if London is a character in Pros along with the people.

I've written madly divergent from canon AUs for TS, but whenever I get occasional (but unacted on) plot bunnies for Pros, they're always set in canon. Go figure. Canon and the mood of canon helps create the fanon. Bloody obvious, but every fandom has its own dynamic, and Pros is gritty. I have more trouble with sweetness and light depictions of the guys than I do with AUs.

Lastly, my favourite AU is Helen Raven's 'The Cook and the Warehouseman'

[faramir-boromir.livejournal.com]

London is definitely a character (I've already said that elsewhere in this thread, but thanks for repeating it), and somehow, I feel a bit cheated when the city is missing from a story--an AU set elsewhere has to work that much harder to hold me.

I agree that each fandom creates its own sort of vibe, such that the AUs in one fandom don't seem to match those in another. I brought this up at CQ, saying that the AUs in QAF turn on things like disabilities (major character is blind, deaf) or end up age-inverted (young Justin is now older than Brian and his teacher), while those in Pros are more likely to be far out (outer space, that is, or circuses, or camel backs, or whatever). I happen to like The Cook and the Warehouseman very much, but I was told by others that they didn't, couldn't stand it, so as with all AUs, YMMV.

Interesting that your plot bunnies in Pros are canon ones. So far, I can say the same about me. Maybe that will change with time. But it's an interesting observation about the differences between fandoms.

[sc-fossil.livejournal.com]

Well, I love AUs in general so I'm happy to try any in Pros. I thought at first I wouldn't like seeing Bodie and Doyle outside of the CI5 universe, but I've been happily proven wrong. My main criteria in any AU (or AR) is that I need to see the canon character in the AU character. I love Bodie and Doyle. To read a story where they exist in name only wouldn't work for me. I'd say for me I need 75 percent canon in a good AU. Otherwise, the character ends up being an OC for me. But that's going to be very different for every reader and writer out there. We all have our limits of tolerance and/or acceptance. +g+

My favs (that I can remember right now!) have been: Professional Dreamer, Master of the Revels, Harlequin Airs, and Arabian Nights. And I have read a few that I disliked immediately, so I just stopped reading. I also read Whisper of a Kill, which I loved, but I really can't say it's AU. More AR, maybe? It is hard to classify. But the zine is gorgeous, so who cares? LOL!

[faramir-boromir.livejournal.com]

I think you're on to something here about AUs, which is the same for me: since the setting has been changed (sort of like altering the background on a stage), the characterization has to be that much stronger. I **need** Bodie and Doyle, since they've now been shot into outer space or dumped in Arabia.

Having said that, Master of the Revels just didn't work for me. Perhaps if I had seen the film with Shaw in it, that would make a difference, but I didn't get much Bodie and Doyle characterization from the story. Ah well. I'm glad you enjoyed it, though.

Maybe you could tell me what precisely you enjoyed about MotR? Was it the strong story, the plot in particular?

Pros AUs - Novels

[taverymate.livejournal.com]

When it comes to the importance and influence of AUs in Pros, the zine novels are particularly illuminating. Out of roughly 120 zine novels that have been published in Pros, at least half are AUs. That's a very high percentage. When you look at the circuit novels that aren't on that list, you also find a high proportion of AUs; Meg Lewtan's (hysterical) historicals are a good example.

Why are so many Pros novel's AUs? Possibilities abound. And that (if you'll pardon the pun *g*), is actually the explanation to which I lean. Writing a novel within the constraints of canon can be done - and it has been done well in Pros, several times, to my great delight - but there is something particularly freeing about AUs that allows writers to create novel-length stories.

Longer stories also often (not always, and individual reader preference clearly comes into play) linger in readers' memories longer than short stories simply because the reader is immersed in the world for a longer time as they read. The length of a novel also means that there are potentially more points of engagement with various readers. And even those who don't necessarily like zine novel AUs will often admire the craft that goes into the world building. Add in the art that often accompanies zine novels, and that's another reason that zine novels get discussed and recommended and remembered. AUs offer incredible scope for artists, and certainly much of the fantasy AU artwork is quite memorable.

I think there is also something to be said about the thrill of the hunt for OOP zines and the allure of the (hopefully, temporarily) unattainable zine. The fact that so many Pros fen are willing to put in the time and energy and money to track down zines lends an air of desirability to the zines. So even fen who might not actually like the zine novel AU when or if they read it may think of the story as something special.

The strong opinions - both pro and con - about AUs in general work accentuate the sphere of influence that can be attributed to AUs in Pros fandom. AUs don't have to be universally loved to have influence.

For example, The Hunting series by Jane draws mixed reactions: it has ardent supporters and equally vocal opponents. Yet, The Hunting has had a demonstrable influence on other Pros writers and stories. An early Pros zine novels (published in 1986), The Hunting certainly proved that there was an audience for fantasy AUs in Pros. Many of those interested in writing AUs (fantasy or other flavors) found a home at Nut Hatch Collective press which was run by Jane. Nut Hatch was very AU-friendly, though it also routinely published non-AU stories. There were other, later, presses that were AU friendly, such as OTP with the Other Times and Places zine series (all AU), but Nut Hatch was a particularly prolific and early press.

I'd argue that the very existence of Nut Hatch press increased the amount of AUs in Pros because having a welcoming venue for a particular type of story (be it an AU or another genre) is often the tipping point in what story a fan fiction writer will work on. This was particularly important pre-Internet, when distribution of Pros stories was limited to zine and letterzine presses and the Circuit. Today there are many more distribution avenues, and zines are no longer a dominant distribution path.

Re: Pros AUs - Novels

[faramir-boromir.livejournal.com]

One point that got raised during the discussion at CQ was about the reaction of readers to stories back in the early days of fandom. If someone wanted to write an AU in the Starsky/Hutch fandom, and the response from readers was likely going to be holding their nose and walking away, they might be less likely to try it there. With Pros, the existence of a press that supported and published AUs, and fans who were willing, perhaps, to take more chances with Bodie and Doyle, certainly played a strong role in why so many AUs were turned out in the first 15 years of the fandom.

I'm wondering now about dates, that is, the publication dates for prominent AUs. Can we think of many that have appeared in the last 10 years? Is there a reason for that (the decline of zine publication as a distribution method)?

Pros AUs - Novels, part 2

[taverymate.livejournal.com]

Continued due to LJ length contraints -

Pros has a rich tradition of debate by fiction and response stories and unauthorized sequels. When a story (AU or otherwise) generates controversy, Pros writers have often responded. One of the best examples is Consequences an early partner rape story) by Tarot which drew 15+ direct response stories, many explicitly "fix-its". Some deliberately played off the title (e.g. "Inconsequence", "Inescapable Consequences") to signal that their story was written in direct response. Response stories ranged from serious rebuttal to full-on parody ("Consequences: The Musical Version").

The AU story Poison Apples by Pam Rose has two direct response sequels with a "slash - no, het - no, slash" back and forth which is also explicitly referenced in the titles. Apples for the Lady by T. D. Murphy deliberately took out the slash and made it a het story, and Antidote to Apples by Kris Brown put the slash back in! Pam's story was a slash fusion with the movie "The Wicker Man".

Another direct response AU story was "Ghostly Shadowy Ghost Shadow" by O Yardley (Proslib & the archives). It was a response to two stories by Anne Carr (Ghost of a Shadow, Shadow of a Ghost - found on Proslib CD & at the archives) and also took some swipes at various cat, were-cats, and teddy bear stories. *g* O Yardley's author notes include this tidbit: (*NOTE*: There can be no polite disclaimer with this story since the author is offensive purely by intent.)

There are also many stories that represent a more general response to a particular trope or genre; for example, there were a number of CI5-based, canon-heavy stories that were written, at least in part, to counter the presence of AUs, particularly fantasy AUs. I'd also suggest that The Inappropriate Elf Challenge 2003 (huge multi-fandom challenge with 75 stories, 65 writers, 55 fandoms - http://www.trickster.org/speranza/cesper/Elves.html) was, at least in part, a reaction to The Hunting and the idea of elves in a fandom as reality based and gritty as Pros. Interestingly, there was only one Pros entry; perhaps because most thought Pros already had their share of elves?

I do think that the AU-reality based split is one of the deepest divides in Pros, reflecting both a real difference amongst certain types of fen and also the sometimes contradictory impulses contained within individual fen who are both attracted to the gritty world of Pros canon, yet want it tempered. For some fen, that tempering means a complete change of setting and a softer version of our beloved Lads and Cowley. Others, like faramir_boromir above, want their AUs to contain the the adrenaline rush of Pros.

Re: Pros AUs - Novels, part 2

[kiwisue.livejournal.com]

Others, like faramir_boromir above, want their AUs to contain the the adrenaline rush of Pros.

I agree. (in general - there are always exceptions) I need adventure and excitement along with the love.

Interesting that Pam Rose, who wrote several AU's for 'zines (Poison Apples, Arabian Nights and Professional Dreamer) also had some brilliant canon setting long stories on the circuit - Forget That I Remember and Dream That I Forget, Where the Worms Are, Double Vision. I'd love to know her reason for switching to AU for the 'zines.

Re: Pros AUs - Novels, part 2

[blkandwhtcat.livejournal.com]

I think it was me who said I generally dislike AUs (and from your descriptions of the zines, I will NEVER buy any. I dislike almost all of the AUs you mention).

In order to appeal to me personally, an AU has to keep the characters "in character," so they are recognizable to me as my personal image of Bodie and Doyle. Even if the AU is otherwise very well written and/or creative, I won't like it if it's just a story about characters who have the physical attributes and names of Bodie and Doyle. For example, I didn't think Arabian Nights was anything other than the typical "bodice ripper" (as you called it) about the sheik who kidnaps and rapes the at-first-reluctant-but-then-sex-slut white chick, which is such a cliche. Where are Bodie and Doyle in that scenario? Nowhere that I can see, unless the sheik is a terrorist, the kidnapped girl is a political prisoner, and they come in to rescue her. Then it might be a B/D I can believe in an AU.

I just don't want to read about Bodie and Doyle as Mr. Bennett and Mr. Darcy, or CinderellaBoy and his Prince, or Sleeping Beauty, or whatever. To me, the best stories - whether relying mostly on canon or AU - keep Bodie and Doyle in character, fighting the bad guys, facing near-death situations, struggling to accept the unsavory aspects of their job, and struggling to find a balance betweeen their personal relationship and the objectivity and emotional detachment needed on the job. Once an author strays from that basic premise, then I'm probably not going to be interested in the story. But when the author keeps that premise and the personal quirks of the characters, and takes it to an AU, the result can be excellent, which is why I really like stories like Professional Dreamer, Whisper of a Kill (even if not really AU), Suitable Gravity, Blue Figurine, and a few others.

That's just personal preference, of course. I have a very low tolerance for sappiness, and it seems that when the guys are in canon situations, they tend to be written tougher and more masculine. I can't stand stories that turn the guys into weepy girly-men, and that doesn't happen as often in stories where they're working for CI5 (although unfortunately, it still does!).

Pro's AU writers

[jagr1968.livejournal.com]

Regarding flamingoslim's suggestion that authors who felt closed out or scorned by S/H fandom for their AU's moved over to Pro's and went wild there. Many of the early and best Pro's writers came not from S/H but straight from Star Trek, which abounded with AU's. English writers such as: HG, Sebastian, and O Yardley all started with Trek and struggled to write American sounding dialogue. When Pro's came along, they happily embraced a fandom where they could write "British-isms" to their heart's content and took their AU's with them. Many of the first American Pro's writers also came from fandoms other than S/H. If I remember rightly, Anne Carr and Lainie Stone came from Dr. Who; Pam, Lezlie, Thomas, and Courtney Gray all came from Trek.

Re: Pro's AU writers

[faramir-boromir.livejournal.com]

Thank you for this information! The first I heard of this theory was at CQ, and once I considered it for a while, the idea had some clout. What I lacked was data to confirm it. Of course the British-isms would be a problem in Trek, plus Trek...well, every episode in Trek might be considered AU. So in that sense, Pros would be a very good place to go and take that creativity. Much appreciated!

[magenta-blue.livejournal.com]

*Flies in late as usual, trips over shoe-lace*

Great discussion topic FJ (faramir_boromir!). It seems that the question 'why does Pros have so many good AU's' is ably answered above, perhaps after the bar was set with Sebastian, O Yardley etc, then the idea was planted that AUs were welcome in Pros, perhaps?

I, like many others it seems, completely blanked AUs out of my reading, when I first came to Pros. I just wasn't interested at all, I was here purely to see the screen guys in fiction, with umm a bit more besides. *g* I wanted to picture CI5 all the more clearly, almost as it is, to make everything else more believable. That was in the first year of reading, but then...

...But then, of course, you hear recs. You read recs. At this stage I had read an awful lot, and was, I guess, so bought into that world, that by now I could take it elsewhere and as long as it retained certain characteristics, I could still see it, even if the story was set in the desert. Now, as long as they are done well, I can allow my mind to bend a little. *g*

[jagr1968.livejournal.com]

It seems to be a common progression that the longer you've been in the fandom and the more stories you've read and/or written, the more likely you are to turn to AU's or be more tolerant of them. I know that's true for myself. In the beginning, I was only interested in CI5 based fics but after you've read all the available ones, you branch out. Of course, I may have been more receptive because I started out in Trek and knew the enormous pleasure that could be derived from reading a good AU. It also helps if you can view the source material that inspired an AU. I'm lucky enough to have tapes of such fare as: Facelift, Cassidy, Ladder of Swords, Cream In My Coffee, The Chief, etc. and may perhaps better appreciate why a writer might find it interesting to set a story in that universe. For example, I've always thought that the Zax character had a lot in common with Doyle. Plus, the actor that portrayed Bob in Facelift also played Ojuka; in both roles he had very good chemistry with Martin Shaw.

I forgot to mention two other American writers that started out in Trek: DVS and FJ. FJ was inspired by the classic Trek episode: Mirror, Mirror to write The Looking Glass World, which in turn inspired Ellis Ward to write her sequels to the story's open ending. DVS's experience with futuristic settings was put to good use in Suitable Gravity.