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ci5hqTitle: The Blue Figurine
Author: Courtney Gray
Link to story or zine/ProsLib info: at the Circuit Archive and in Nudge Nudge Wink Wink 3.
Pairing: B/D
Bodie and Doyle have been on the trail of the Lehman brothers for months, and just when they're within nabbing distance, something goes wrong in the op... in fact Bodie goes wrong, so wrong in fact that for just a moment Doyle wishes that Bodie'd stayed in the jungle and that he'd never had a partner. Trouble is, it was exactly the wrong moment...
He's holding a blue figurine when he makes the wish, and somehow - unbelievably, and yet incontrovertibly so, he actually gets his wish, and Bodie is gone from his life as if he'd never been there. I tend not to think of this as a supernatural fic, because the rest of it seems so very grounded, but of course, I realise now, it is! Really that part of it plays very little role in the story though - it's really an exploration of what people - Bodie and Doyle - do for each other, how they affect each other, and how easily we can be made better or worse people - though perhaps it also suggests that deep down, at the heart of us, we are who we are, and that it only takes a little either way to tip that into being better or worse.
For instance, Bodie is portrayed here as his mercenary self, the man who never chose to leave that occupation for the comparative respectability of the army, SAS and ultimately CI5. So we see that he has a ruthless streak, that he accepts things we hope our CI5-Bodie wouldn't, and that, in general, he has barely developed a taste for using utensils (as CI5-Bodie explains to his ex-mate merc before everything goes haywire courtesy of the figurine). But - but-but-but (*g*) - despite this, we catch glimpses of our own Bodie's humanity in him. He might be rough with Doyle-as-sex-object, but he's not cruel to him, he meets him as a person who wants the same thing he does. He might offer him a "beating" as one of their sex games, but he gives Doyle a choice. He might tell Miller If you're going to fuck him, get on with it and let's throw him out of here, he might even be prepared to enjoy watching, but he doesn't do more than hit him once and throw him out of the room when Doyle goes too far for him. Okay, none of those are good things, but he doesn't force himself on Doyle, or beat him to a pulp for the fun of it - he's not that far gone into inhumanity. And of course at the end of the story he actually thinks longingly of the relationship that Doyle wanted, wishes that they had it... and, oh, doesn't he just turn out to be holding that blue figurine...? *g*
And what about Doyle - how much is he still himself without Bodie around? The story's mostly from his pov, so he actually contemplates this himself, and decides that in one way he might indeed be better off - a more focussed, single-minded agent - but that in general he's not happier without Bodie, he misses the balance that Bodie gives him - and that he presumes he gives Bodie.
Actually there's elements of Doyle's characterisation that I'm not entirely convinced by in general:
Without Bodie ...perhaps it was more honest to say that he was now more like his true self. He had always been content to be by himself... But Bodie would come by and drag him off... Bodie crowded his life with people and activities that he would naturally have avoided..
Is that the Doyle we see in the eps? We do see him working on his bike alone, but we see him being pretty social too, and not just when Bodie's around. He always seems pretty friendly with the other agents, and of course he usually wants Bodie working with him on things, even when they're from his past, and not connected to Bodie. So I do wonder a bit where the unfriendly-Doyle characterisation comes from (there are other authors who write it too). Is it just to create greater contrast between hail-fellow-well-met Bodie? Except that there are still other authors who paint Bodie as a dark lone wolf who walks alone...
In any case, Doyle decides that he needs the humanity that Bodie gives him - perhaps rather ironically, considering Bodie-the-merc's humanity is pretty hidden away and denied by Bodie on a number of occasions, such as when he meets Doyle's eyes when Miller is about to fuck Doyle, then deliberately cuts himself off from the contact, or when he chooses to wear the black gloves to purposefully stop himself feeling so close to Doyle when they fuck.
The Doyle that we see though, despite what the author tries to tell us, seems pretty true to the Doyle we see in the eps. He might be focussed on his job, but at the end of the day he puts finding Bodie, and making contact with Bodie, above the job. He disappoints Cowley and threatens potential promotion by putting Bodie first - even merc-Bodie. And when he finds Bodie, he's prepared without hesitation to be as close as Bodie wants him to be in the hope that he can create the kind of closeness between them that he wants too.
I like this Doyle, and I like this Bodie - they're their own people, created from their own backgrounds and experiences, but they're both infinitely better when they're together, and I like the way the author shows us - without weeps of tears and gnashing of torn hair - that they really do need each other.
So - what do you think? *g*
Do you recognise Doyle here?
Do you recognise Bodie here? In either incarnation?
Did you struggle with the supernatural element to the story, or did it work for you?
And what about the reason even before the figurine that everything went haywire - that Bodie was being too protective of Doyle to the point that it mucked up the op and prompted Doyle to make a wish-in-anger-and-frustration? Do you believe in that Bodie? Do we see that relationship between them in the eps at all, or did Gray make that up out of whole cloth for the sake of the story? How protective is protective-Bodie? And do we see protective-Doyle as well?
Author: Courtney Gray
Link to story or zine/ProsLib info: at the Circuit Archive and in Nudge Nudge Wink Wink 3.
Pairing: B/D
Bodie and Doyle have been on the trail of the Lehman brothers for months, and just when they're within nabbing distance, something goes wrong in the op... in fact Bodie goes wrong, so wrong in fact that for just a moment Doyle wishes that Bodie'd stayed in the jungle and that he'd never had a partner. Trouble is, it was exactly the wrong moment...
He's holding a blue figurine when he makes the wish, and somehow - unbelievably, and yet incontrovertibly so, he actually gets his wish, and Bodie is gone from his life as if he'd never been there. I tend not to think of this as a supernatural fic, because the rest of it seems so very grounded, but of course, I realise now, it is! Really that part of it plays very little role in the story though - it's really an exploration of what people - Bodie and Doyle - do for each other, how they affect each other, and how easily we can be made better or worse people - though perhaps it also suggests that deep down, at the heart of us, we are who we are, and that it only takes a little either way to tip that into being better or worse.
For instance, Bodie is portrayed here as his mercenary self, the man who never chose to leave that occupation for the comparative respectability of the army, SAS and ultimately CI5. So we see that he has a ruthless streak, that he accepts things we hope our CI5-Bodie wouldn't, and that, in general, he has barely developed a taste for using utensils (as CI5-Bodie explains to his ex-mate merc before everything goes haywire courtesy of the figurine). But - but-but-but (*g*) - despite this, we catch glimpses of our own Bodie's humanity in him. He might be rough with Doyle-as-sex-object, but he's not cruel to him, he meets him as a person who wants the same thing he does. He might offer him a "beating" as one of their sex games, but he gives Doyle a choice. He might tell Miller If you're going to fuck him, get on with it and let's throw him out of here, he might even be prepared to enjoy watching, but he doesn't do more than hit him once and throw him out of the room when Doyle goes too far for him. Okay, none of those are good things, but he doesn't force himself on Doyle, or beat him to a pulp for the fun of it - he's not that far gone into inhumanity. And of course at the end of the story he actually thinks longingly of the relationship that Doyle wanted, wishes that they had it... and, oh, doesn't he just turn out to be holding that blue figurine...? *g*
And what about Doyle - how much is he still himself without Bodie around? The story's mostly from his pov, so he actually contemplates this himself, and decides that in one way he might indeed be better off - a more focussed, single-minded agent - but that in general he's not happier without Bodie, he misses the balance that Bodie gives him - and that he presumes he gives Bodie.
Actually there's elements of Doyle's characterisation that I'm not entirely convinced by in general:
Without Bodie ...perhaps it was more honest to say that he was now more like his true self. He had always been content to be by himself... But Bodie would come by and drag him off... Bodie crowded his life with people and activities that he would naturally have avoided..
Is that the Doyle we see in the eps? We do see him working on his bike alone, but we see him being pretty social too, and not just when Bodie's around. He always seems pretty friendly with the other agents, and of course he usually wants Bodie working with him on things, even when they're from his past, and not connected to Bodie. So I do wonder a bit where the unfriendly-Doyle characterisation comes from (there are other authors who write it too). Is it just to create greater contrast between hail-fellow-well-met Bodie? Except that there are still other authors who paint Bodie as a dark lone wolf who walks alone...
In any case, Doyle decides that he needs the humanity that Bodie gives him - perhaps rather ironically, considering Bodie-the-merc's humanity is pretty hidden away and denied by Bodie on a number of occasions, such as when he meets Doyle's eyes when Miller is about to fuck Doyle, then deliberately cuts himself off from the contact, or when he chooses to wear the black gloves to purposefully stop himself feeling so close to Doyle when they fuck.
The Doyle that we see though, despite what the author tries to tell us, seems pretty true to the Doyle we see in the eps. He might be focussed on his job, but at the end of the day he puts finding Bodie, and making contact with Bodie, above the job. He disappoints Cowley and threatens potential promotion by putting Bodie first - even merc-Bodie. And when he finds Bodie, he's prepared without hesitation to be as close as Bodie wants him to be in the hope that he can create the kind of closeness between them that he wants too.
I like this Doyle, and I like this Bodie - they're their own people, created from their own backgrounds and experiences, but they're both infinitely better when they're together, and I like the way the author shows us - without weeps of tears and gnashing of torn hair - that they really do need each other.
So - what do you think? *g*
Do you recognise Doyle here?
Do you recognise Bodie here? In either incarnation?
Did you struggle with the supernatural element to the story, or did it work for you?
And what about the reason even before the figurine that everything went haywire - that Bodie was being too protective of Doyle to the point that it mucked up the op and prompted Doyle to make a wish-in-anger-and-frustration? Do you believe in that Bodie? Do we see that relationship between them in the eps at all, or did Gray make that up out of whole cloth for the sake of the story? How protective is protective-Bodie? And do we see protective-Doyle as well?
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Date: 2015-10-08 07:55 pm (UTC)Did you struggle with the supernatural element to the story, or did it work for you?
Usually I can’t be bothered with the idea of the supernatural in stories because I can never imagine whatever it is that’s being written about but I really did enjoy this story, perhaps because, as you've implied, that once the essential supernatural part of the story is done and dusted, the rest of it is pretty normal i.e. it doesn't involve lots of unimaginable things!
And what about the reason even before the figurine that everything went haywire - that Bodie was being too protective of Doyle to the point that it mucked up the op and prompted Doyle to make a wish-in-anger-and-frustration? Do you believe in that Bodie?
Not sure….. I don’t think I can see Bodie protecting Doyle to the extent that he’d muck up an op because who knows what the outcome of that might be? It might endanger Doyle even more and in a sense Bodie’s programmed to obey orders rather than disobey them. Well, that's canon Bodie. Apparently....I've just remembered a scene which contradicts what I've just argued: Bodie disobeying Cowley to go to Doyle's aid in Ojuka. Oh well..... And in fanon I think I could see Bodie disobeying orders to help Doyle and, being a romantic (I didn't realise I was but I must be), I’d like him to.
Do we see that relationship between them in the eps at all, or did Gray make that up out of whole cloth for the sake of the story? How protective is protective-Bodie?
Sometimes Bodie can seem more protective of Doyle. Maybe it's the way he often hangs behind Doyle (the spokesman): stoical, taciturn, hands in pocket, creating the impression that he’s slightly bigger and giving off a bodyguard type of aura More specific examples…..arm slung around Doyle’s shoulders after Ann’s chucked him; carrying Doyle’s bag at the end of DIAG; helping Doyle off the floor when faced with Macklin. I’m sure there are comparable moments from Doyle but offhand I just can’t think of them!
And do we see protective-Doyle as well?
Actually, I think I *can* think of examples (it’s all coming back to me!)…..running to Bodie's side when he thinks he’s been shot in The Untouchables; running after Bodie to release the explosives in Beautiful Picture; running to Bodie's aid in Wild Justice. What do you know, I'm surprising myself here.....
Thanks for your choice of story and for your review, I really like it when questions are asked as it helps to concentrate the mind and raises all kind of issues which I hadn't realised were raisable (and I think I've just created a new word).
no subject
Date: 2015-10-08 09:52 pm (UTC)Nice examples of protective lads, too! I always think of the start of Backtrack too, when the canister/bomb rolls down the stairs and Bodie pushes Doyle out the door - although a bit of me also thinks it's Bodie pushing him out so that he can get out too! Ojuka's a good example on Bodie's part though, especially of disobeying orders to do it. Hmmn - does Doyle ever disobey Cowley to help Bodie... (now we're asking... *g*) In Klansman he says he's going to go after the blokes who stabbed Bodie, and Cowley won't stop him, but is that revenge rather than protection? And is Bodie going after May-Li the equivalent, or is that too much Cowley-enforced... actually that is canon that Bodie wants to stay with Doyle in the hospital, come to think of it - I've always hand-waved that a bit in fics, cos I remember both of them heading off on the ops in the eps... but that's another question anyway...
D'you know, there are almost more examples of protective-Doyle, now you've stared the list... how interesting. I'll have to think about that a bit more... *g*
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Date: 2015-10-09 06:56 pm (UTC)Oh, good example, I’d forgotten that scene and yes, I agree, I’m sure Bodie was trying to get out!
Ojuka's a good example on Bodie's part though, especially of disobeying orders to do it. Hmmn - does Doyle ever disobey Cowley to help Bodie... (now we're asking... *g*)
I tried to think of examples last night and didn’t get very far. I can think of lots of times when Doyle gets very angry with Cowley but actually defying him? Hmmmmm...…what about investigating Ann’s father in Involvement? I’m sure Cowley warned him off doing that.
In Klansman he says he's going to go after the blokes who stabbed Bodie, and Cowley won't stop him, but is that revenge rather than protection?
I suppose if it’s after the fact then it’s revenge? But I'm not sure if 'revenge' is the right word for how they'd be feeling in that kind of situation... maybe 'avenging' each other is how I'd see it.
And is Bodie going after May-Li the equivalent, or is that too much Cowley-enforced...
A bit of both though I think Bodie would have gone after May-Li no matter what.
I can totally imagine Doyle being in a grumpy temper as described in the story I'm afraid - we do see him being irritable and grumpy and very snappish at people sometimes. Hmmn, do we see him being snappish to Bodie?
I think we do. In Acorn when he yells at Bodie to ‘slow down’ in the car and immediately regrets it. And in ‘Heat’ he snaps at Bodie when talking about his old partner, Sid Parker, and then apologises. And in Wild Justice he shouts at Bodie a few times, understandably. He’s so volatile, quick to anger and quick to apologise and I think that’s part of his attraction.
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Date: 2015-10-09 09:10 pm (UTC)Involvement's the ultimate example of Doyle defying Cowley, I guess... and perhaps in Klansmen where he says he'll go after the guys whether Cowley likes it or not (but Cowley gives in to him then!)
Oh! They both rather deliberately defy Cowley in PMPD when they go chasing after Nesbitt at the end, but perhaps that's mischievous lads goading each other on rather than the kind of real, heart-felt defiance we see in Involvement and Ojuka and Klansmen...
I'm not sure if 'revenge' is the right word for how they'd be feeling in that kind of situation... maybe 'avenging' each other is how I'd see it.
But... isn't that the same thing, but in different tenses of the word? Avenging someone = getting revenge on whoever hurt them? Or have I been missing different meanings all this time (not impossible!)?
He’s so volatile, quick to anger and quick to apologise and I think that’s part of his attraction.
Oh, good examples - yes! And I always think of him at the end of Takeaway punching the car seat in front of him when they hear about the diplomatic immunity... oh, and actually is it in Female Factor that Cowley actually goads him to anger against a suspect? When he tells Doyle that the girl was Ann's daughter? Or am I thinking of a different ep and mixing my memories...? Actually I'm just now making the connection between that and the way Cowley tells Bodie to make his anger work for him (when he gets the whisky in his face), and is all gleeful at the end about how "when it works, it works" - blimey, actually provoking Doyle like that is quite a callous thing to do, really, one way or another... but I might be getting slightly off subject. *g*
Yeah, as you say, Doyle is volatile and quick to anger - he's passionate about things, and I agree that I think it's part of his attraction. And we see that at the start of Blue Figurine, and then how it can go wrong for him too... but how Bodie's innate character, the softer side of him ("you're just a great big softie"... *g*) saves the day in the end, and will bring them back together and the world back to rights... *g*
no subject
Date: 2015-10-09 10:03 pm (UTC)Are they the same? The revenging angel doesn't sound quite right.... I’m probably completely wrong but I've always felt that 'revenge' is slightly more harsh, more single minded and direct involving retaliation for the sake of it whereas 'avenge' can have (not always) more moral overtones e,g. the seeking of justice. But I’m probably wrong.
no subject
Date: 2015-10-09 10:55 pm (UTC)Vengeance - punishment inflicted or retribution exacted for wrong to oneself or person etc. whose cause one supports
Revenge - satisfy oneself, be satisfied, with retaliation (for offence), retaliate, requite, exact retribution for (offence to oneself or another).
I dunno... I reckon they look pretty much the same... maybe it's just the context we use them sounds different. We don't think of angels taking their revenge, but we do think of "avenging" angels", as you say... But when I think about it, I would mean the same thing by either of those words. Maybe it's a bit like using "terminate" instead of "kill" - we just make a word sound slightly better to fit a context we're more in favour of... hmmn... *g*
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Date: 2015-10-10 02:53 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-10-10 03:56 pm (UTC)I actually quite agree with you and P about the idea of revenge/vengeance - and I'm a bit disturbed to think about how the two things really are the same thing. Avenging does have better connotations than taking revenge - as though there's built-in justice, somehow. But really when you come down to it they come to the same thing - that when a wrong has been perpetrated on us (or our friends), we want the perpetrators to feel the same pain, we want them to hurt, as much if not more as we did. And vengeance or revenge, is that really a worthy feeling? Surely we should just want them never to do it again, to understand that whatever-it-was isn't any good way to live and to act, so that they never cause anyone else pain again. I suppose it's tangled up with the idea that we need to show them what that pain feels like, and that only by doing that can they understand and agree not to do it again, but... but I think that our own unworthy feelings come into things there, and it's where stopping the problem happening again becomes taking revenge/vengeance/causing the same pain to someone else...
This maybe a slower discussion than previous Reading Rooms, but it is good, in that this is the second issue raised that's actually making my head explode.. *g*
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Date: 2015-10-10 07:06 pm (UTC)I agree. I think that’s probably why I was fairly tentative in what I said.
Maybe it's a bit like using "terminate" instead of "kill" - we just make a word sound slightly better to fit a context we're more in favour of... hmmn... *g*
Oh good example (words are so fascinating!) and yes, I’m sure we’re subjective in how we think and use words. It says more about me that I initially thought of terminate as something deadly, automatic, etc. because I was thinking of 'The Terminator' but of course you've got multiple meanings....terminating a train at the terminus, a terminal illness, blah blah. And 'kill' I thought *could* be benign as in a cull of animals or killing with kindness.
I won’t be challenging the Concise Oxford Dictionary(!) but I’ve found a few less concise interpretations (two from online Chambers and Cambridge dictionaries) which explain what I mean much better than I can:
to do harm to or punish the person responsible for something bad done to you or your family or friends in order to achieve a fair situation;
to take vengeance on behalf of;
Avenge and revenge both imply to inflict pain or harm in return for pain or harm inflicted on oneself or those persons or causes to which one feels loyalty. The two words were formerly interchangeable, but have been differentiated until they now convey widely diverse ideas. Avenge is now restricted to inflicting punishment as an act of retributive justice or as a vindication of propriety: to avenge a murder by bringing the criminal to trial. Revenge implies inflicting pain or harm to retaliate for real or fancied wrongs.
And it’s interesting when you look at synonyms for each word, e.g. for avenge there's vindicate and for revenge there's reprisal, retribution and vengeance. To me, vindicate implies something more magnanimous than revenge e.g. a higher goal whereas revenge implies spite just for spite’s sake with little else to gain but the act of revenge itself.
PMPD is a great example of them both defying Cowley's orders, sorry forgot that one! And I went off the rails with Involvement as an example because Doyle wasn't defying orders to protect Bodie.
no subject
Date: 2015-10-10 11:12 pm (UTC)Ha - I was clearly well of the rails with you on Involvement too, cos I wasn't thinking of that as disobedience to protect Bodie either... I guess that's more on a par with Bodie's disobedience in MWaP...
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Date: 2015-10-09 11:28 am (UTC)And I really didn't care for the ending. I want to know that things are okay, not just think they are. After all the drama, we don't know for sure what is going to happen next.
no subject
Date: 2015-10-09 12:11 pm (UTC)I can totally imagine Doyle being in a grumpy temper as described in the story I'm afraid - we do see him being irritable and grumpy and very snappish at people sometimes. Hmmn, do we see him being snappish to Bodie? Well, we see him cross enough to punch him in Involvement, I guess! I might have liked to know a little sooner what it was he was cross with Bodie about, that said, that could have been made a bit clearer, because otherwise he does seem a bit over-cross about something we don't really find out about until nearish the end.
You can be mad at someone without wishing you'd never met them, but I think we all say things we don't mean when we're mad, in a blazing (or even smouldering) moment of complete grump, especially if it's something we're not sure how to resolve - again, I can imagine Doyle's frustration coming out like that. That said, the actual line you quote I do think sounds a bit odd and perhaps extreme - but obviously needed to make the plot work, so I tend to wave it past as not wildly unbelievable...
But even if you don't like Doyle's grump, do you think he's out of character later in the story too? (Just out of interest *g*)
no subject
Date: 2015-10-10 11:09 am (UTC)Which brings me to another point. I don't buy that, without Doyle, Bodie would have remained a heartless merc. After all, he didn't meet Doyle until he'd gotten himself into the army, and then joined CI5. I'm think Doyle might have helped soften some of Bodie's sharp edges (and the reverse being true,) but not much more than that.
And again with the ending. If it's Bodie who now wishes for the change, will only he remember what he was before? Will he remember anything of his training in CI5, or any of his co-workers, outside of Doyle? And, suddenly, showing up in a situation similar to what they had before, without Doyle remembering, it's rather a "what was the point?" I guess that's why I so don't like the way the story ends. There's too much left unanswered. Not just what they'll be to each other (I guess the reader is supposed to figure that part out,) but how Bodie can just walk into a situation he now knows nothing about.
And if Doyle doesn't remember any of their alternate lives, Bodie could end up with a lover who, once again, is dissatisfied enough with him to wish him gone.
no subject
Date: 2015-10-10 12:07 pm (UTC)Oh, interesting... actually when I think about it, my picture of Bodie in the first part of the story is quite hazy, except in relation to Miller as an ex-merc... After the initial meeting, I guess we see that he's being patient with Doyle's temper, because he knows he's upset him and he knows how - ...since the shoot-out. I tried to tell you why I - but then we slip into Doyle's pov, and sort of lose any more contact with him until we come across merc-Bodie.
I don't think merc-Bodie was a heartless merc though - I think there are lots of moments, mentioned above, where we catch the Bodie we recognise from the eps. So I don't think it was that there was any kind of black/white change in him when he met Doyle/CI5/SAS/army etc., I think it was just the gradual thing of changing into being who we are gradually - because we don't see the in between bits, it perhaps seems more of a clear-cut jump from merc to CI5, but of course it can't have been, because as you say something made him "go legit" at some point. As you say, it's more about softening sharp edges (on both sides). So in this dimension he might still have given up being a merc, it's just that we don't see that bit (although actually Doyle's wish was that he'd feel at home in the jungle, so maybe he'd still choose to live there rather than in London)
And again with the ending. If it's Bodie who now wishes for the change, will only he remember what he was before?
Oh, now that's an interesting question, and one I haven't let bother me... *g* Presumably we're talking travel between alternative dimensions rather than time travel, which means that the focus is on the pov we're looking through, and presumably it takes them to the point in their life where the dimensions split... *thinks hard*...*g*... So Doyle's wish was "You should have stayed in the jungle, Bodie... you would've been right at home there...and I would've been better off without you." - and he's taken to a dimension where he's in the same time (the Lehman case) and otherwise surrounded by the same people, but where Bodie never joined CI5 - where he felt right at home in the jungle (maybe that's why he seemed to resist the idea of changing his life until the very end, where his personality came through via the wish) and where Doyle was better off in CI5 (more successful as an agent - but not, as he recognises, happier). So then if Bodie wishes "I wish it was true [to love and be loved]... I wish we were partners, friends... lovers. God help me, Ray Doyle, I wish it was true." So by the same dimension-shift logic, he'd turn around to find himself in the dimension where that was true - they'd be partners and friends and lovers. So if they're already there, Doyle wouldn't be trying to work out what was going on/be frustrated by not understanding Bodie's over-protectiveness of him, he'd react a different way - so Bodie wouldn't end up with a lover who once again wished him gone!
Of course the whole dimensions-splitting thing means that presumably all the different choices they could both have made are out there somewhere, and what we're reading is just two (almost three) of those possible dimensions, and the others all exist too, we just haven't read those stories (yet *g* in our dimensions *g*)... or do dimensions only split when there's some sort of purposeful incident, like the wishes being made for change... or perhaps in that dimension it needs the wish, but in other dimensions it.... *head explodes*
Phew! I do like Reading Room, for making me think... It's funny what's in your head that you don't quite realise until you write it out! *vbg*
no subject
Date: 2015-10-10 02:18 pm (UTC)And I think this rather neatly sums up my ... disatisfaction, I think is the best word, with this story: it leaves me hanging. I wound up feeling like I had plowed through all Doyle's effort and angst and realizations and Bodie's, well, jack-assery, for what? There isn't (for me anyway) any real emotional payoff at the end, and I have come to find out over the years that that is really what I am looking for in my fanfic.
I think Grey is an excellent writer all told, and I very much enjoy most of her stories, both from technical and emotional points of view. The literature student in me sees what she did there at the end and it is a lovely punch and well-done, but ... no. For me, personally, the story just isn't finished. Bodie has just been thrown into the drink, and I need to see if and how Doyle fishes him out :-)
no subject
Date: 2015-10-10 03:50 pm (UTC)But... even in the Bodie-the-merc universe, Bodie realises that actually he would have liked to know Doyle more, that if he hadn't been a complete raving lunatic who was pretending Bodie was someone else entirely and who beat up his mate Miller, that something he couldn't explain tugged at his insides. For me that's the payoff - the realisation that even in the Bodie-merc universe that Doyle had wished for, Bodie still wanted him, and they still belonged together, it's just that things had been skewed so that Bodie didn't understand that as well as he perhaps did in the ep-universe.
For me I think the story ends as Bodie's fishing himself out of the drink - albeit in the universe of the story, where he can do that just by wishing... *g*
Hmmn - so... what you'd like is that there's no wish-machine at the end, and that Bodie makes the decision to change his life and find Doyle and work it all out? D'you know, I think that'd be a too-easy ending for me, considering the complexity of issues being explored - and you'd think it'd be the other way around, wouldn't you, that having a wish-machine would seem like the easy option, but somehow that works more for me in this situation. We're shown them both as flawed men, for whom the world could easily have gone in different directions so that they missed out on love altogether, and it's only by superhuman efforts in this particular case that their love can be saved... I appreciate that's a less easy read than it could be, but I rather like a good mixture of that thinkiness in my reading...
In fact, now that I think about it, perhaps one reason I'm reading less Pros now is that I'm not coming across that sort of thinky story, where we're not just given a happy ending and sure everything's going to come out alright. Not that I don't love that kind of story too, but I think I need the other kind to balance it out, to remind me how valuable it is. The whole light/dark, yin/yang thing... *g*
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Date: 2015-10-10 04:10 pm (UTC)No, actually I love the wish-machine at the end! *g* I loved that Bodie has been thrown into a world where now he is the one who will be somewhat adrift. Because although Bodie wanted, wished to BE in that world that Doyle had been trying to get him to see, I don't think the Doyle of that world will necessarily give Bodie an easy ride of it. I think that Bodie will have some issues adjusting to that world where he is actually loved and loves in return...
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Date: 2015-10-10 11:09 pm (UTC)Oh, but he also wished that they were partners and friends and lovers, so surely there'd be alot of goodness built-in to that... *g* Although to be honest I don't mind hearing that they have their angst and issues - it's all the more fic for us to read... *g*
I think that Bodie will have some issues adjusting to that world where he is actually loved and loves in return...
That's true - cos he'll be the one remembering the other world, this time... now there's a sequel waiting to be written... *g*
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Date: 2015-10-09 05:09 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-10-09 05:27 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-10-09 06:43 pm (UTC)I'm sorry not to join in this week, but this specific story just ain't my cuppa (if it had been Object of Desire, now, that would have been quite another story!)
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Date: 2015-10-09 08:55 pm (UTC)Thanks for letting us know that the story's not one you like, and why! I've got to admit that I find their characterisation pretty well done in this story, although it's true that Gray's picked out some of their worst characteristics to start off with! Doyle is grumpy and stroppy, and seems to ignore Bodie's feelings - and one of my few criticisms of the story might be that we don't find out why for a long time (by which time some readers have clearly been put off entirely... *g*). He's struggling with Bodie's growing affection for him, which is coming out as over-protectiveness, and he's frustrated and doesn't know how to deal with it - and I can see Doyle being both those things.
And then Bodie's a merc who hasn't been civilised by Doyle and CI5 and anyone else yet - but I think we catch enough glimpses of our real civilised Bodie to see that he just needs a nudge towards "civilisation" and he'll be there. I think he's trying to be a cold-hearted merc, but I don't think he succeeds - he's sort of teetering between the two things, and I love that he very clearly falls on the side of our Bodie rather than that of a Miller-type-merc...
But an author's got to convince us to keep reading and see all that, and I'm sorry it didn't work for you this time!
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Date: 2015-10-09 07:01 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-10-09 08:57 pm (UTC)No interest...
Date: 2015-10-09 09:50 pm (UTC)I'm not very good at articulating why I don't like some stories. Sometimes, I just don't.
RE: No interest...
Date: 2015-10-09 10:48 pm (UTC)I suppose it wasn't an unpredictable story, plotwise - maybe that's why I find the characterisation the most interesting thing in it. I'm surprised so many people have found it "off" though, especially compared to other fics. I can see Doyle being desperate to get Bodie back in those circumstances, but I didn't see Bodie as a "jackass" in any way - you mean an idiot? I thought he was pretty good at putting up a front to fit in with Miller and the life he'd decided he'd have (money etc.), but that even he knew that there was more to him underneath, and I thought it was interesting how the two parts of him were somewhat at war - and the better parts won in the end, because he wished for a relationship with Doyle - effectively wished he'd chosen a different path... I guess I thought he offered some comfort to Doyle too - he made and kept the second appointment with him after all, and there was that smile when he saw Doyle had turned up...
RE: No interest...
Date: 2015-10-10 01:32 pm (UTC)RE: No interest...
Date: 2015-10-10 03:41 pm (UTC)Ah - okay. I suppose I think that fits completely with his being a merc (killing people for money). Much as we might not like it, that is the life that Bodie chose for a while (in the eps, not just in this story). He did hire himself out to do the dirty deeds other people wanted doing - and the extreme ones, the ones that start with a gun in your hand. I think that actually makes me see the glimpses of humanity in Bodie more in this story - and he actually thinks that Doyle wants the same thing as he does - uncomplicated sex. (he was there in the same pub, after all, when they met, as far as Bodie's concerned). And Doyle does rush off to be sick straight after giving Bodie a blow-job, which is the kind of thing that might throw you, and make you assume that the other person's gone off the idea of sex... *g* And Bodie doesn't hesitate when Doyle makes it clear that he does. want his half of the sex, and in fact he smiles.
but goes into a rage when Doyle defends himself against Miller
We're definitely read that different ways! I think I'd be pretty leery myself if someone confessed that I reminded them of someone else they fancied entirely - and then after having sex with me started talking as if they thought I really was that person - it would sound disturbing, and I probably would want to get out of there and let them straighten themselves out... which is what Bodie wants to do. He doesn't want to deal with this man who thinks he's someone else and seems to want some heavy relationship, when Bodie's made it clear all along that he just wants uncomplicated sex. When Miller comes along he tries to put him off Doyle - "Forget about it, he's a nutter." - but when Miller insists he reverts back to I-don't-care-Bodie in front of the man that he works with here (Miller, not Doyle). And to be fair, from that pov Doyle doesn't just defend himself against Miller, he breaks his nose, then punches him in the jaw hard enough to knock him unconscious - that's fairly hard fighting just there, and not what a bloke might expect from what he thinks is a random pub pick up... So I don't see Bodie going into a rage - he "stared at him incredulously, his hands balling into fists. "You're a fucking maniac," he whispered, darting a look at Miller's prone body. He took a step forward, tension rippling through him." Okay, he threatens Doyle - but that's the kind of defensive aggression I'd expect from a man in those circumstances, whether or not he intended to do it (bloody men!) - but Bodie doesn't do it, instead he throws Doyle's clothes at him and tells him to get out and stay away from him. He basically is shocked that his mate Miller has been so badly attacked, and just wants Doyle to go away. When Doyle won't, when he keeps going, that's when Bodie punches him, but again it's strictly to get rid of him.
And then it's made clear that Doyle really did touch him (emotionally, I mean *g*) despite what happened, that there was a connection, cos in the bookshop it just takes a picture to make him think of him again. We even get an explanation of things from Bodie's pov, and how disturbing it'd been for him - "...The sex had been so... damn good, thought it disturbed [him] to consider how new it had all been for Doyle and how much the man had trusted in him. Bodie had even had to wear the gloves, just to keep control... he might've been tempted to let down his guard... and that was always a mistake... Bodie swallowed hard at the confusing rush of emotion that seemed to ambush him out of nowhere.... Feelings he'd forgotten, that he had diligently frozen out of his heart over hears of disappointment and loss.... For me the ending is Bodie's feelings coming out, the ones he'd buried and that he'd given into when he met Doyle, just a tiny crack...
RE: No interest...
Date: 2015-10-10 10:27 am (UTC)Pretty much why I couldn't get into this one too. Though as I said before, I do like this writer in other fics!
RE: No interest...
Date: 2015-10-10 04:05 pm (UTC)As per my reply to NyPagan, I suppose I buy a certain amount of "jackass" (her word!) Bodie in this sitch, because it's the universe where he is that person - he's chosen to be a mercenary, to cause pain to others in exchange for money. He did in the ep-universe too, but we see him try to redeem himself through CI5 in a way - we don't have that comfort in this fic. But actually, as I said above too, he isn't all bad in the story - he might be prompted to act what we think of as badly, but actually he doesn't actually go through with it to the end. Doyle runs out to be sick after giving Bodie a blow-job - I can forgive Bodie for thinking that Doyle's no longer interested in mutual uncomplicated sex - and when Doyle says that actually he is, Bodie doesn't hesitate to return the favour. Even at the end, when from Bodie's pov Doyle seems absolutely crazy - imagining he's someone else, beating his mate Miller unconscious - what he wants is to get away from him. Even though he threatens to beat him up it's just posturing - what he really does is throw Doyle out. He hits him once, when Doyle persists in trying to cling, but that's all. Okay, I'd rather it hadn't disintigrated into that in the first place, but I think it's realistic in the story - Doyle desperate cos of all that's happened to him, and realising that he's going to lose Bodie for a second time, and Bodie completely thrown by this mad stranger suddenly in his life...
I guess I like the depth of the story, that it's not as straightforward as most fics are - argument- misunderstanding - row- disaster-realisation-of-true-love - happily-ever-after. I think the happily ever after is there, it's just not given to us on a plate... *g*
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Date: 2015-10-09 09:39 pm (UTC)(edited to explain about commenting to the discussion)
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Date: 2015-10-09 11:05 pm (UTC)I found Doyle irritable, selfish and mawkish
But isn't Doyle irritable in the eps? And snappish and grumpy and quick to anger?
I'm not sure I see him being selfish or mawkish (overly-sentimental?) in this story though - okay, maybe you could say he was when he wished Bodie didn't exist, but to me that was more a flare of anger and frustration, in the same way that you might say "I wish we'd never met!" to a girl/boyfriend you were rowing with. It's just that this time it had worse consequences than just having to apologise! How do you see him as mawkish though? In wanting Bodie back when he realised he really was gone?
Bodie cold, unfeeling and selfish
Again, I think we see glimpses of these things as a possibility for Bodie in the eps (like when he shrugs off people dying, or is content just to do as they're told without asking questions, in contrast to Doyle) - but actually he's been saved by leaving the mercs, and so we see the Bodie he is deep inside. What I liked about this story was that we saw glimpses of that Bodie just waiting to be drawn out by Doyle/Ci5 etc. - he's Bodie-in-waiting... *g* But the point of the story is that they're present to a greater extent cos he's not become our Bodie yet.
I tend to get impatient with stories the other way, I guess - when the lads seem too perfect to be true (even their flaws are too-good-to-be-true flaws, like when someone asks you in a job interview what your weaknesses are *g*), and they're overly quick to say loving, sentimental things to each other, and give in to expressing their feelings - I liked alot that they didn't do that in this story, I found it much more true... but other people seem to have found that too harsh for their liking!
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Date: 2015-10-10 12:30 am (UTC)It's a troubling one, that's for sure, but I think it's to be read in a certain prospective to be fully appreciated. It was difficult to digest it the first time for me, too, because the author doesn't give us what we want but this uncomfortable and alien new reality.
You ask many good questions. Do I like their characterisations in both realities? Yes, I do! Do I recognise them? Yes, I see the "real them" in the original reality, the grumpy, irritable, sometimes too harsh Doyle (but no need for us to feel offended by this, it's been a really bad day for him and it shows in his harsh behaviour "It was almost as if some perverse need in him wanted to drag it out, to make Bodie twist in the wind.. Everyone of us can be irrationally mean sometimes); and there's the real Bodie, too, in the end when Doyle is back at home, "alone", and Doyle really opens his eyes and we finally see through his memories his lost Bodie, the partner, best friend and not the all around one-dimensional bad mercenary. And I like their alternate selves, too. There's no really much point in this "second life" to talk about "out of character". Doyle is really "alone" here, not because there's no Bodie, but because he is the only one who remember his previous life. We must remember that it's an abnormal situation, I'm surprised he's not gone crazy. Still, I recognise him; after the first shock he's back fighting to right the wrong, he's a fighter and is finally able to recognize Bodie's overprotectiveness for what it is. And Bodie, it's a really wrong Bodie, I agree, I despise him, but I feel sorry for him, too. All that potential goodness in him wasted. Still, he's not totally bad as it seems, he's not at all a younger version of Miller. They are two different persons. This alternate Bodie will choose a different path in the end, again. I didn't catch how important this Miller character was the first time.
And what about the reason even before the figurine that everything went haywire - that Bodie was being too protective of Doyle.....And do we see protective-Doyle as well? Personally, yes, I do. They're protective of each other in canon, in my opinion, but I don't feel the need to point out who is the more protective, both in canon and in fanfictional works. I'd be bored to death to read about a character written in the same way over and over again, I like it when I'm positively surprised when I read a story. But here, to answer your question, Bodie protectiveness is easily explained and understandable to me. And if we look at the fight scene, Doyle is maybe a little reckless this time or so it appears to Bodie.The real problem is that Doyle have mistaken Bodie worries for lack of trust because he's totally blind to Bodie's new feelings.
The supernatural element almost made me give up the reading the first time. In pros and S&H fandoms I don't look for AU stories if I can help it, but I've no problem to read the good ones when they come around, so...I even liked the author's choice here, it fits in a romantic way. There're vaguely similar stories around with supernatural scenarios or more scientific ones. but they're still just the set up for the real story.
In the end this is a love story, there's misunderstanding, lack of communication, unrequited love (Bodie), blindeness to the other's feelings (Doyle), the plea for a second chance. But no one is the guilty part here and I like this for once. I only feel sorrow for the both of them when I read it now.
But I would I have maybe liked a sequel, to know which "Doyle" is going to be in Bodie's wished reality, the original one or the alternate one. Because the alternate Doyle's ending is not good in this universe.
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Date: 2015-10-10 03:09 pm (UTC)the author doesn't give us what we want but this uncomfortable and alien new reality
That's a good way of putting it, I think - and maybe if we turn to fanfic for comfort and familiarity, then this isn't going to be the story for us, but although I like comfort and familiarity and all, I like something a bit more think-y sometimes, and I think that's what this is - cos it's not a difficult unhappy ending, I don't think, so there's comfort there - we just have to work for it... *g*
There's no really much point in this "second life" to talk about "out of character". Doyle is really "alone" here, not because there's no Bodie, but because he is the only one who remember his previous life.
Excellent point - yes, if he didn't remember his other life, then it would just be different for him, but because he does, and because he and Bodie were on the edge of getting together anyway, he's completely knocked for six...
but I don't feel the need to point out who is the more protective, both in canon and in fanfictional works
No, I don't think so either - I think they're both protective of each other, and worried about each other, and that's why I rather love them.... *g* But that said, I think we hear an awful lot about how protective Bodie is of Doyle, and not much about what happens the other way around, which is why I asked up above... nice to have some back-up ep evidence. *g*
The real problem is that Doyle have mistaken Bodie worries for lack of trust because he's totally blind to Bodie's new feelings.
Yes! It's as if they're in two different stories to start with, because Doyle just hasn't realised - or perhaps even though about, considering how he reacts to Bodie's advances in the alternative universe - that Bodie really is in love with him and that it's coming out in a way that frustrates him....
In the end this is a love story, there's misunderstanding, lack of communication, unrequited love (Bodie), blindeness to the other's feelings (Doyle), the plea for a second chance. But no one is the guilty part here and I like this for once.
Yes! That's exactly how I read this story - it's absolutely a love story of two parts that just need slipping into place together... *g*
In a reply to Gilda Elise above (I think above) I managed to work my way through the whole alternate dimensions thing, and worked out why I'm absolutely confident that things work out for the lads... *g*
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Date: 2015-10-11 03:31 pm (UTC)To be honest, I'm a little surprised by this general lack of positive response, there're so many other more praised "classic" stories out there that lose their initial appeal to me especially when it comes to their characterizations....
Wonderful discussion anyway, no time to be bored, that's for sure :-)
And...the fic about the nuclear accident is "Twist of Fate" by Dee, on the circuit archive. That's one of those I was referring to while talking about supernatural/scientific scenarios.
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Date: 2015-10-11 08:24 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-10-12 10:51 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-10-11 10:16 pm (UTC)Yes - I was surprised too, I thought the characterisation was really well done in this one. Although I wonder if we might disagree on characterisation in some of the "classic" stories - are you thinking of any in particular? (I love hearing the different directions that characterisation stretches for different people - like we seem to agree on this one, but where are the other borders that we have, that might be different...? *g*)
And ah, Twist of Fate - thank you! I've just dug out the zine, and must have a re-read... *g*
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Date: 2015-10-13 12:04 am (UTC):-) oh no, I wouldn't be so worried about this...The "classic stories" reference is only due to the fact that you put this story among the classic ones. I usually don't have a double standard when it comes to the "age" of the author/story; sure, there're traits, writing styles and characterizations that I don't like, but it's usually unrelated to the age factor and, often I overlook a few flaws in the story if this is nice as a whole.
I really didn't have a particular story in mind, but.....for example, today I'm less enthusiastic and more wary about a big classic story like "Waiting to Fall" and I'm having a difficult time in reading again authors like Jane or Debra Hicks.
I usually prefer a strong writing style. As for the characters, they have to feel "real". There's so much more to discuss about, really... :-)
Yes "Twist of Faith" was already on my reread list. And regarding "The Blue Figurine" it also comes to mind Pamela Rose's "Forget that I remember, and dream that I forget"
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Date: 2015-10-13 04:58 pm (UTC)Oh, no I didn't mean "classic" in any age kind of way - just that I always thought it was a popular, well-known story that was generally considered good and one that most people would have read! I suppose there's a slight element of age, cos it takes a while for enough people to have read a story that you can describe it that way, but it's not about the age itself...
And ah - yeah, I think perhaps we do agree about stories that give us a hard time... Waiting to Fall isn't one of the classics that I'm particularly fond of, though to be fair it's been a long time since I read it. But yeah, I struggle these days with Jane and Debra Hicks, among others...
As for the characters, they have to feel "real". There's so much more to discuss about, really... :-)
Yes! It's all about characters feeling "real" - as if we could meet them, and they'd have just as many flaws as good points (cos that's what I see in our lads in the eps too - I don't think they're just beautiful superheros, they're flawed and there's things I don't like about them too...) I was hoping that the discussion of this fic might be a bit about characterisation, but I guess it wasn't really to be - maybe another time! *g*
Oddly enough, I dug out Twist of Fate to read in its zine - and have discovered that next week's (well, this Thursday's) Reading Room fic is in the same zine! *g*
t also comes to mind Pamela Rose's "Forget that I remember, and dream that I forget"
Ooh yes, another one I remember liking...
ETA cos coding oops... sorry!
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Date: 2015-10-10 11:37 am (UTC)didn't mindrather liked the rough sex, and tropey descriptions of merc Bodie (for me they were within reason). I thought those aspects were handled well. What distracted me was Doyle's internal dialogue and how that made him seem a bit more dopey than I like. I have a competency kink, or incompetency squick, if you like, and I can't help thinking that he should have been less distracted by moping and more alive to the cues he was receiving from Bodie.no subject
Date: 2015-10-10 03:17 pm (UTC)rather liked the rough sex, and tropey descriptions of merc Bodie (for me they were within reason).
Snap!
What distracted me was Doyle's internal dialogue and how that made him seem a bit more dopey than I like.
Oh, d'you think he comes across as dopey? Hmmn... Actually perhaps that's quite a good word for it in some ways, because I agree that he doesn't always seem quite with it - but I put that down to the shock of what's happened, and of realising that Bodie not only is gay (or bi) but that actually Doyle may well be in love with him too. But it's the kind of realisation that seems to come over time, so perhaps it does read as somewhat dopey...
I have a competency kink, or incompetency squick, if you like,
I do like - I'm pretty sure I have the same kink/squick... *g*
and I can't help thinking that he should have been less distracted by moping and more alive to the cues he was receiving from Bodie.
...but that said, I dunno here. I think we do get mopey-Doyle a bit in the eps - or he perhaps comes across as mopey sometimes, but it's more that he's stewing things over and working them out as he goes along. We see him do it pretty overtly in the ep where Bodie buys him the cocktail (I can never remember which one that is - where he's trying to work out what's going on, and Bodie's just not helping *g*), and of course in WtHCO in bed, and I'm sure other places too. It's just that when Bodie's around and available for him he's either knocked out of it, or distracted while he's doing it, or something eventually comes to him to get things moving. But before things get moving, I'm not sure how alive he'd be to various cues...
Hmmn - in this story actually, what cues are you thinking about - d'you mean at the start, where he's not listening to Bodie about what happened on the job? Or d'you mean later, with Bodie-merc?
part 1
Date: 2015-10-10 04:35 pm (UTC)I love this story - although not in the happy-squeely way - more that it "hurts so good." Especially when life it hard, this story appeals! I know that must seem obvious... "don't be too down on your circumstances because guess what! it could be much worse!" But, for me, it is such good hurt/comfort. Not easy, not cozy comfortable, but emotionally wringing (for me).
All of the discussion so far is very thought provoking, and I can see your points - I want to discuss - but I wanted to put down my own response first. I apologize in advance - I recognize that I mostly gush, not discuss. I tend to retell a story rather than critique it. :( But I figure it's better to say what's in my heart than to be silent and not contribute. I am rushing and so I hope I get it right and don't make too many mistakes... Also - spoilers ahoy.
The dimension shift issue - I thought it was very cleverly done - and it didn't distract me from this feeling very authentically like Pros. There was another story - B and D and a nuclear bomb? where they both migrate to different dimensions and find each other - can't remember the name of it. This also reminded me of movies like Sliding Doors - the what if you got what you wished for world shift scenarios.
It is *so* uncomfortable to read - I squirm and wince and feel like I should cover my eyes - the author takes us right into these places I don't want to think about. But she does it so well - in my opinion - handling them with real skill and deftness - so that it works in the end. We see sides of each of them I would rather not dwell on! but then we see the balancing other side, too - which feels that much better for having gone through the awful side of it.
I admit I was not happy with Doyle in the beginning - that he would think this way of Bodie - that he would think Bodie was holding him back or hurting him, professionally (groan)...and I still am not sure that this particular part of the equation is really settled for me. We don't get to see whether Bodie is equally good of an agent as Doyle, in the end, (equally, but not necessarily in the same ways). We do get D realizing that B's actions on that last mission were not unprofessional and that he did trust D, but I wish there were more.
I thought that the way D and B are revealed - their characters from before and their characters now - was so cleverly done... How it dawns upon Doyle so powerfully what B meant to him and what roles he played in his life - how much B changed him. I loved the part where he sees that he feels more of everything with B. Then the whole shadow and hint of revelation of who B will be - Dorchester, check! Recognizing different faces and postures, check! But recognition, NO. The familiar light in his eyes, NO. When Doyle thinks Remember me, remember me, let it be the way it was, i was wrong, i was wrong - arghhhh! I forgive his previous coldness and lack of understanding with interest.
Their interactions in this new reality are fascinating - constantly shifting through them for hints of *something*. The hints of their connection that are still there - that B says he came over because D wanted him to? The familiar things. The snapshot memories he has while he has B in his mouth! D's confusion over B being gay, and the slow dawning of understanding, remembering emotions in B's eyes.
Bodie's seeming heartlessness, his cold, unfair selfishness, it makes sense. It's unpleasant as heck! but as D recognizes, the reason behind it blurs that out... I thought the sex scenes were very hot - I liked the level of detail and the occasional clinical aspect, using the real words, D's ambivalence (he had never thought about sucking a man's cock before?!) His competetiveness. His usual sense of assurance and grace which is missing now. The guilt he feels. B's technique and the ways he uses it to keep control - no forcing his head down. D realizing for the first time how soft B's hair is! The shower of little details makes it so powerful. Which makes the subsequent imbalance so painful - that it means so much to D and apparently so little to B...
part 2
Date: 2015-10-10 04:36 pm (UTC)That in this world, D is all about longing for intimacy with B and B is all about cold distance and control. Ying and yang reversal. The thing is, I can understand why this B would react the way he does - D would really appear to be unbalanced, crazy.
Thank GOD for the epilogue. That we get a glimpse of a possible positive future. Yes, it is vague, but reveals that B is not as cold and controlled as he wants to appear, that he was tempted too much by D, that he felt like touching D was touching fire... YESSSSSS. Please!
All this to say that I loved this story, that it is like a sweaty emotional workout. That it reveals in such a clever and intricate way the connection between B and D - the attraction that nothing can defeat. It is, was, and is to come. In this world, and the next.
```````
Back to the reality shift "cats cradle" - I still am intrigued by the possibilities...
she'd bring her husband and baby back. She said she would change what happened.... two other people who came upon the cottage and what befell them. One was a spinster from a nearby village who afterwards swore that her invalid parents had vanished. All her neighbors thought something must have affected her mind because they knew she had been an orphan since she was an infant. The other was a traveler who later proclaimed, in drunken delight in this selfsame pub, that he was married to the girl he'd always wanted, as if it was something he'd only hoped for. His pretty wife was with him, as bemused at his behaviour as the villagers. The man surprised everyone, including his wife, by insisting he had been traveling alone until he had come upon the cottage. In both cases, the woman and the man mentioned finding a strange, blue figurine in the cottage.
Did the woman originally wish her husband and child gone? But then wouldn't they just be unheard of, then? or what happened? I loved the man with his wife - how hilarious! Was it just the blue figurine? or did the others do it to? I wish that in Doyle's case, more had been explored - like the Krivas hint - what happened there? Where does the shift extend to? Sequel! Sequel! I read somewhere that CG is not interested in writing one herself, but does not object to others giving it a go... hint hint! I would think this one would have inspired many sequels by now...
RE: part 2
Date: 2015-10-10 11:06 pm (UTC)Don't apologise for putting down your thoughts before anything else - that's what we want to hear, whenever you have a chance to make them, in any way you want to make them! *g*
There was another story - B and D and a nuclear bomb? where they both migrate to different dimensions and find each other
Oh yes, I think I like that one - but I can't remember what it is either! Now I want to find it...
We see sides of each of them I would rather not dwell on! but then we see the balancing other side, too - which feels that much better for having gone through the awful side of it.
Yes! That's rather how I feel - that them perfectly together is even better for knowing that it's not always like that... which sounds weird, doesn't it, cos in real life how much easier and more wonderful life would be if it was always like that... perhaps its our subconscious knowing that we have to cope with the difficult things too, but that if we have to do that then there are wonderful things around the corner to balance it out as well... gives us hope...
that he would think Bodie was holding him back or hurting him, professionally
D'you know, I don't think I ever really believed that Doyle really thought that - to me that was just something he was thinking/saying in anger, the old I-would-have-been-better-off-if-I'd-never-met-you that I reckon we have all at least thought during some row with our other halves... but I get the impression I'm the odd one out there, that most people really believe he thought it. I wonder why...
We don't get to see whether Bodie is equally good of an agent as Doyle
I guess for me that's just not in question - we know he is, it's just that he was struggling cos he realised he was in love with Doyle and didn't want him hurt - the whole over-protective thing. I'm not sure I can entirely see that, to be honest, cos the lads I see are very respectful of each other's strength, and have sort of settled down to trusting each other's competence in all ways... in fact I can't think of a moment in an ep where either distrusts the other..? They occasionally roll their eyes at each other, but not at their ability, or competence, iirc...
The hints of their connection that are still there - that B says he came over because D wanted him to?
Yes! Just that! It is the connection we know and love between them, even if on the outside it doesn't seem that obvious... but it's there, and they each react to it... *g*
Yes, it is vague, but reveals that B is not as cold and controlled as he wants to appear, that he was tempted too much by D, that he felt like touching D was touching fire...
Yes! And yes again... *g*
I'm so glad you liked this one too!
The time/dimension-shift thing... I skimmed over that a bit, but let's see... My take is that when her husband and child were killed, and the woman went mad with grief and said she'd bring her husband and baby back. She said she would change what happened. - whatever she did didn't last only for herself, and may not have even worked for herself because she was never seen again. I suppose it depends what she wished for - perhaps she didn't wish for them back, perhaps she wished to be with them and that's why she vanished from our world. But the supernatural workings that she'd used to make it happen were never closed and so they have the same affect on anyone else who comes across them and makes a wish... Well, that's what I reckon. *g*
The Krivas thing - presumably if Bodie never left the mercs, then he either never split with Krivas or else they settled their differences in the jungle - either way would be enough to worry Doyle...
Oh, the idea of a sequel... *g* All this Pros-y talk, and my Pros-October-fic is dragging me a bit deeper in again... I found myself looking out fics in the boxes under my bed for my October posts, and came across a ton of loose paper stories that I didn't remember much about. I'm quite keen to keep reading again, now I've got started... maybe if I look out some of those wips I've got lying around something similar will happen on that side... *g*
RE: part 2
Date: 2015-10-11 08:40 pm (UTC)that he would think Bodie was holding him back or hurting him, professionally
I gave this idea credence because D seems to think and accept it after he has 'settled down' as a lone agent in ci-5 again. Sorry I don't have the exact quote, but I think it is there. That he can dedicate himself without distraction and his talents really mesh with the job and Cowley's grooming of him, etc. I'm not sure if he comes out and says it but his thinking seems to lean in that direction?
I have been having the brain explosion moments too, thinking of all the possibilities of what could or might happen with this story. The issue of what's next with B's wish - will it continue on at this place in the story? What if it reverted back to when D made his wish and that timeframe? How would either of them be accomplished right boom off the bat? Ohhh so many thoughts to think! It's only been a week or so since I read it, and already I am having memory holes!!! I *hate* that. Hmm.
I have to run - I am on a tight rein! but hold these thoughts, I'll be back sometime soon...
RE: part 2
Date: 2015-10-11 10:23 pm (UTC)If he had never known Bodie, he would never have missed it. When it came to CI5, he was better off without Bodie. He'd proven that already. He was able to focus on the organisation as a whole without being distracted by any one individual. Nothing became too...personal. His emotional center was different now, protected and...remote..
He says If he had never known Bodie..., And then he thinks:
Whatever else, you're not happier without him. It was the one major fact he couldn't deny. Doyle almost smiled at the truth of it. How obvious it suddenly seemed. With Bodie there had always been moments when Doyle had felt far more angry...and silly, and exasperated, and content, and...alive than he'd ever felt with anyone else.
And then he goes out and starts to track down Bodie-the-merc.
And I can see that, actually - for both of them. They're such a perfect partnership, that the flipside of that is that things that anyone would do better on their own - such as focusing purely on an operation rather than having half an eye on looking out for your partner - must be lost to them. They have something else, something that's better overall, but that doesn't mean there wouldn't be advantages to working separately. So Doyle thinks pragmatically of those - and then rejects them... *g*
Hope your loooong weekend is going well, and that your reins will loosen up again soon! *g*