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ci5hqEvery now and then I go back through old lj posts to find links to things that I remember, and on the way I come across other posts and other links, and I'm quite excited to say that this happened today, relevant to comments made in the the Trip Through Your Wire Reading Room discussion from a couple of weeks ago.
We were talking about why the IRA wasn't featured more obviously in Pros, as "the Troubles" were very much part of life in the UK at the time. I remembered an article where Clemens explained this, but didn't have it to hand. I've just found a link to the article in a previous brief discussion about Pros and the IRA! *g* It's sadly gone from the internet now, but it was available via The Wayback Machine, and I'm actually going to copy the text of the article below, for future reference!
The Professionals: tough, tasty, but really a cop-out?
Article date and source unknown [but the article says it was an interview by "TV Choice", which was a tv guide magazine. It also indicates that there were two pictures accompanying it - "BATTLING Bodie: Lewis Collins", and "DASHING Doyle: Martin Shaw". The opening sentence suggests that the article was published either when filming had just ended, or when the last ep was about to be newly transmitted in the UK, so 1981 or 1983]
With 60 episodes filmed The Professionals has entered its final series. TV Choice talked to Brian Clemens, veteran thriller writer of this law and disorder mayhem in which only the cameras shoot faster than the high-powered guns...
AS VIOLENT police shows go, The Professionals, Brian Clemens freely admits, has achieved popular success but never the critical acclaim that The Sweeney attracted.
The comic-strip violence of the show leaves little space for the character that Jack Reagan and George Carter of The Sweeney possessed.
The exploits of CI5 sprang from LWT's order to Clemens for 'a show with two fellas'.
And from that brief Clemens shaped the characters Bodie and Doyle.
The two tough guy heroes work out national grievances on a variety of heavily armed offenders.
Clemens answered the insecurities of a country plagued by sensational headlines of terrorism without a trace of moral ambiguity.
Clemens was never tempted to pitch his heroes against the real terrors of front-page violence such as the ordinary, run-of-the-mill battles in the streets and homes of Ulster.
The reality of shoot-outs in Northern Ireland would jar with the exuberant abandon of helter-skelter car chases.
The IRA 'is a bit too real,' says Clemens.
So Clemens' 'relentlessly British' boys shun controversy.
They may be as hard as nails but they are granted no authority outside this country,
'Belfast is abroad,' says Clemens.
But that doesn't mean they aren't seen abroad, and they are sold across the world.
But among the list of major customers German TV has refused two episodes.
This was because the programmes handled a Baader-Meinhof type terrorist group.
Knuckles are fine, it seems, but not if they bruise a national conscience.
Disillusioned with the tendency of British TV to resemble 'photographed radio' Brian Clemens stresses the escapist strength of the show.
It is in the camera-work that the strength of Clemens' commitment to the show lies.
One of his earliest ideas for a TV show was rejected on the grounds that the number of cameras needed was too high.
As 'a good exercise in shooting fast' (camerawise, that is) The Professionals succeeds - but with what future?
Fallen between the surreal joy of an Avengers plot and the grimy sympathy of The Sweeney the bold feature-film strokes of The Professionals may not fade, but are likely to date.
[Source: The Martin Shaw Scrapbook, 1st December 2006, via The Wayback Machine]
And what I reckon? Pros hasn't dated as much as The Sweeney has! *g*
We were talking about why the IRA wasn't featured more obviously in Pros, as "the Troubles" were very much part of life in the UK at the time. I remembered an article where Clemens explained this, but didn't have it to hand. I've just found a link to the article in a previous brief discussion about Pros and the IRA! *g* It's sadly gone from the internet now, but it was available via The Wayback Machine, and I'm actually going to copy the text of the article below, for future reference!
The Professionals: tough, tasty, but really a cop-out?
Article date and source unknown [but the article says it was an interview by "TV Choice", which was a tv guide magazine. It also indicates that there were two pictures accompanying it - "BATTLING Bodie: Lewis Collins", and "DASHING Doyle: Martin Shaw". The opening sentence suggests that the article was published either when filming had just ended, or when the last ep was about to be newly transmitted in the UK, so 1981 or 1983]
With 60 episodes filmed The Professionals has entered its final series. TV Choice talked to Brian Clemens, veteran thriller writer of this law and disorder mayhem in which only the cameras shoot faster than the high-powered guns...
AS VIOLENT police shows go, The Professionals, Brian Clemens freely admits, has achieved popular success but never the critical acclaim that The Sweeney attracted.
The comic-strip violence of the show leaves little space for the character that Jack Reagan and George Carter of The Sweeney possessed.
The exploits of CI5 sprang from LWT's order to Clemens for 'a show with two fellas'.
And from that brief Clemens shaped the characters Bodie and Doyle.
The two tough guy heroes work out national grievances on a variety of heavily armed offenders.
Clemens answered the insecurities of a country plagued by sensational headlines of terrorism without a trace of moral ambiguity.
Clemens was never tempted to pitch his heroes against the real terrors of front-page violence such as the ordinary, run-of-the-mill battles in the streets and homes of Ulster.
The reality of shoot-outs in Northern Ireland would jar with the exuberant abandon of helter-skelter car chases.
The IRA 'is a bit too real,' says Clemens.
So Clemens' 'relentlessly British' boys shun controversy.
They may be as hard as nails but they are granted no authority outside this country,
'Belfast is abroad,' says Clemens.
But that doesn't mean they aren't seen abroad, and they are sold across the world.
But among the list of major customers German TV has refused two episodes.
This was because the programmes handled a Baader-Meinhof type terrorist group.
Knuckles are fine, it seems, but not if they bruise a national conscience.
Disillusioned with the tendency of British TV to resemble 'photographed radio' Brian Clemens stresses the escapist strength of the show.
It is in the camera-work that the strength of Clemens' commitment to the show lies.
One of his earliest ideas for a TV show was rejected on the grounds that the number of cameras needed was too high.
As 'a good exercise in shooting fast' (camerawise, that is) The Professionals succeeds - but with what future?
Fallen between the surreal joy of an Avengers plot and the grimy sympathy of The Sweeney the bold feature-film strokes of The Professionals may not fade, but are likely to date.
[Source: The Martin Shaw Scrapbook, 1st December 2006, via The Wayback Machine]
And what I reckon? Pros hasn't dated as much as The Sweeney has! *g*
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Two thoughts and an observation
Date: 2015-09-05 01:58 pm (UTC)The rational, grown up person in me thinks it's interesting to note that the Germans were as leary of Baader-Meinhof/Red Army portrayals (briefly also active on the UK mainland) as British TV of the IRA.
The less mature part of me is stamping its feet and demanding 60? where's that DVD?
I have a number of theories as to why the two shows have aged in their respective ways, but I think they boil down to the fact that, for all Brian Clemens' missteps in making the show, The Sweeny was mired in the cultural prejudices of the time, whereas The Professionals tended to look beyond them.
RE: Two thoughts and an observation
Date: 2015-09-05 02:11 pm (UTC)And omigods, how amazing would it be if it turned out there were three whole, lost episodes out there! Rather than the 60 being a typo... *sighs sadly* Mind you, five years ago I think alot of us would have burst into tears at the sight of all the extra pics on the new dvd release,so that should really keep us going for a while of glutton-like joy... *g*
I tend not to think in terms of BC making "mis-steps" with the show - he made the show that he made, and actually there's an awful lot to admire about it. As per the other discussion I've been having this morning, I don't think there's a story/tv show/script/film/anything out there that appeals to everyone, or can't be critiqued by someone, and what I appreciate about Pros is that, as you say, it looked beyond things. I remember really appreciating the whole "new man" thing on Pros - such a big thing in the early eighties, that seemed to vanish in jokes about eating quiche and eventually in Men Behaving Badly and the idea that true equality was actually women vomiting in the street beside men... *sighs* For all they had a way to go yet, give me Pros lack of female nudity compared to men's, Susan kicking bottom in her high heels, Doyle cooking because Ann couldn't, and the female police officers pointing out that Bodie's spotted dick was showing... *g*
'mis-steps'
Date: 2015-09-05 03:01 pm (UTC)Personally I was never down with the 'New Man' thing, not that I'm any more down with the 'Ladette' thing, which seems to simultaneously glorify the worst stereotypes of working class culture, whilst debasing a proud social heritage. Don't get me started on the politics of that!
I chose 'misstep' carefully, I was originally tempted to put mistake, but The Professionals is what it is and tinkering with a part of it could destroy the whole. However, there are occasions (as when Doyle is shot in the multi) when I think the desire for fast paced camera work detracts from the emotion of the story. It's the old hostage thing of 'making them see you're a person', a couple of seconds more - a close up on Doyle's face, a brief exchange of glances between Bodie and Cowley - something to let the moment sink in before being whisked away to the graveyard.
And then at other times it seems to linger unnecessarily, and I'd have cut away or lost the shot completely. (To be fair this probably means I would have cut out that fan favourite, Bodie and Doyle grinning like loons at each other in Doyle's living room; I have never seen the reason for it other than as overt pin up fodder.)
I also think the writers sabotaged BC's vision of the indestructible hero (and I'm a Captain Scarlet fan, so no probs with the 'indestructible'.) It's hard to equate the lads tears, their quiet admissions of fear, their intermittent sulks and occasional loss of marbles with such a two dimensional caricature.
But then all creativity lies in the tensions (and happily fanfic in the gaps!).
RE: 'mis-steps'
Date: 2015-09-05 10:49 pm (UTC)Bodie and Doyle grinning like loons at each other in Doyle's living room; I have never seen the reason for it other than as overt pin up fodder
It's the connection between them, the absolutely understanding of that moment. It's why they're so good together, why they seem as if they can read each other's minds sometimes - we believe in that because we see moments like this, when they just get each other. Without moments like this, they'd just be any random blokes - you could swap one of them for someone else without loss. But they're not, they're at their best working together. And of course they're really in love. *g*
no subject
Date: 2015-09-05 06:54 pm (UTC)I do remember a lot about the era, and I've often thought the Troubles and the IRA bombings were so awful at the time it wouldn't have been appreciated or possibly allowed, to make entertainment out of the situation? I wish I could remember better!
Thank you again - I love when these things turn up.
appreciated or possibly allowed
Date: 2015-09-05 09:01 pm (UTC)Brain rotting slowly away, so I can't remember who said what, but if you haven't recently checked out/contributed to the Trip Through Your Wire posts, do.
Apart from all the good stuff about the story, there are loads of comments about mainland perceptions of the IRA and the Troubles resulting from a comment in the story which implied a particular feature of the conflict had been large numbers of dead children.
And yes, in the alternate reality I am currently inhabiting after just having waded through an essay on the interrelation of the political climate in the seventies and the scripts of Dr Who, there are three extra episodes which were found languishing under Marge Harper's floorboards, having been concealed there by her to prevent the world discovering a) the accidental existence of her peri-menopausal love child with Doyle, b) Cowley's early involvement with the Punk Rock scene and d) Bodie's sexual fetish for liver sausage.
no subject
Date: 2015-09-05 10:57 pm (UTC)I remember DiaG really having an impact on me when I saw it very originally, and alot of that was the camera work. And I know when we were doing the Great Pros Watch I really noticed the camera shots sometimes - so I guess it paid off! *g*
I was around just after Pros time, and I remember them instigating the ban on IRA voices pretty vividly. I think before that I would have been surprised to have seen the IRA featuring in a tv show - that would have been like... I dunno, a tv show incorporating the 11th September bombing a week later for the sake of entertainment, or the Indonesian Tsunami, or dead Syrian children on beaches. It wouldn't have been okay. It would have been pretty tasteless... I do remember being in Manchester when they closed the city centre for a bomb scare, and I really don't think many people there would have appreciated it seeing that worry made into a tv show. Or years later, when an IRA bomb did go off... In fact the more I think about it, the odder the suggestion that it might be done seems...
no subject
Date: 2015-09-05 11:08 pm (UTC)So true. 'Mixed Doubles' is particularly good too - anyone who knows anything about camera work recognises the brilliance there.
...anything about camera work
Date: 2015-09-06 01:23 am (UTC)Interesting, as I'm absolutely sure you're aware, my gripes are editorial, not technical. However, I noticed a distinct improvement in the technical aspects of the filming between seasons 1 & 2 (the joys of back to back viewing) and later discovered from an article I read that the production had been able to acquire some of the first available steadicams in the interregnum. (I'm paraphrasing, so for the literally minded they may not have actually been called steadicams and also I have no idea if they may have been previously available to feature films/the military - wish I could remember where I read the article!)
But the difference was clearly visible. For contrast check out another of my personal favs from the 70's The Protectors (a Gerry Anderson project for which Brian Clemens also wrote). Only a few years younger, it's full of library shots, mocked up streets and faked interiors. There are genuine exterior shots, but they don't have the authenticity of The Professionals. (My favourite has to be the woman eyeing Bodie and Marikka as they indulge in a somewhat-still-frowned-upon snog in the street. I have no idea if she's a put up job or not, but it always makes that scene for me. Well that and Bodie's reaction - which, instinctual improv or carefully rehearsed, is a fantastic cypher for their relationship.)
I think the seventies was an era of televisual experimentation - but I could do without the fisheye in DIAG (and hot/cold lighting effects in the bar scene). Personal bug; used to annoy me on Top of The Pops too. If I had my way fisheye lenses and disco lighting effects would be banned!
I suspect in later decades the relatively recent availability of CGI to shows like Dr Who will be viewed in the same light (technical improvement - I doubt if anyone will care if I find CGI annoying!).
RE: ...anything about camera work
Date: 2015-09-06 07:29 am (UTC)Okay, the fisheye is disconcerting now (especially with the more detailed restorations), but it was probably the in thing at the time! I just love the use of shadow and camera angles in Mixed Doubles though - lots of mirroring, so in tune with the theme of the episode.
The thing at the time
Date: 2015-09-06 10:39 am (UTC)...yeah, unfortunately it was - hence ToTPs!
I've not read Bob Rocca's book, so I bow to more informed heads, but my understanding (gleaned from various articles on the net) is that yes, they got better sound equipment (so no more badly dubbed whistling for Bodie as he waits for Doyle to answer the door). Funny thing is, the scenes where the bad dubbing is used, if they were shot today, would probably be allowed to be silent except for realistic background noises, so birds, traffic etc. - likely also to be a subtle piece of 'dubbing', but less obtrusive.
And yes also, they were given a bigger budget which allowed them to start shooting on the streets rather than every farmyard in the Home Counties - which is what BC had wanted but couldn't afford.
I think Mixed Doubles has a lot going for it as an ep, we finally get to hear something of what the lads talk about when it's not plot exposition, social commentary or disposable banter.
One of my favourite lines is almost unhearable, when Doyle says there are things he wishes he had said to his latest bird (I speculate - but, knowing Doyle, having met her two days ago he's already seeing roses round the door).
And that's not necessarily fandom, in the first annual BC describes Doyle as having been engaged twice, both broken off but he wears the rings on a chain round his neck.
So he obviously has a history of misplacing his affections - and I've always thought it implies someone who gets in too deep too fast. If he was just handing the rings out as a license to have sex (and that went on - an engagement ring meant you were still a 'nice' girl) why keep them round your neck? Why not sell them?
BC may have had other ideas, but I consider it a bit far fetched to presume that both young ladies came to a sticky end.
I also like Bodie's response to this, telling Doyle to 'cut it out' as if he's superstitious. To me that says more about their fear than actually saying they're afraid.
There are some daft moments - Doyle sitting on a garden ornament to shave - why? Surely he'd shave indoors where he could stick the shaver back in his kit rather than his jacket pocket (or have to pop inside and put it away, or get someone else to do that for him). There was a bit of a vogue for having guys use electric shavers to indicate they hadn't had a chance to get home for some while, but most of them do it in the office where they can stow the razor sensibly afterwards. In the car I've always presumed Doyle sticks it in the glove compartment.
Although I've never figured out why the lighter & seemingly finer haired Doyle has a more precipitous five o'clock shadow than the darker/almost black haired Bodie, who you'd expect to be on a shorter leash, stubble-wise.
And I love the whole, they're-so-very-nearly-us vibe. Bodie clearly likes his oppo, and vice versa, which I've always assumed is the reason for the hesitation which gets him killed. Bodie is more ruthless (or better trained.) It's the same episode that gives us Bodie's protective cuddle of Doyle. I'm always surprised Doyle doesn't punch his lights out for that. You'd have to be pretty certain of the other bloke's regard for your abilities, not to see it as an insult to your manhood.
Doyle just accepts it. I assume because he has no doubts whatsoever, even subconsciously, that Bodie sees him as an equal and therefore can afford not to defend his honour. Given their perpetual game of one-upmanship, it's a profound statement of respect and trust.
no subject
Date: 2015-09-06 07:19 am (UTC)Perhaps it's partly because it seems to take a broader perspective, paint bigger pictures than the Sweeney, that Pros has aged better? Of course it's very much of its era too, but the Sweeney's tight focus makes it seem even more so.
Or maybe it's partly our B&D-coloured glasses ... *g*
B&D-coloured glasses ...
Date: 2015-09-06 11:13 am (UTC)No, I like the Sweeney too, but it had two big disadvantages a) it was supposed to be real, and that meant sexist (and I have a whole thing tooled up for the sexism in Pros - so I'll post that when I actually have the time to join in my own debate !) and all the other things that were okay in the 70s but would get you twitter shamed now and b), also because it was supposed to be real, it's preoccupations are dated. Bodie and Doyle come up against generic villains for the most part. Deranged officers, spies coming in from the cold, Bodie's dodgy old mates, Doyle's dodgy old convictions, Cowley's (surprisingly plausible) dodgy old flames, lone-wolf gunmen, foreign dignitaries etc.
Regan and Carter tended to deal more specifically with what was hitting the headlines at the time, problems topical in the seventies, but which have dated badly since. It's a bit like the reboot of Man From U.N.C.L.E. I went to see recently, it's set in the cold war, but they had to spend the credits explaining the iron curtain and a divided Germany to the audience.
I can't remember all the eps, but it did have moral ambiguity, and it ends badly. Its last episode has Jack Regan walking out of his job as an embittered and angry man because he feels he's been shafted.
They both have stonking good theme tunes though. Whatever happened to the blindingly good theme tune? I'm struggling to remember a recent one I'd hum!
RE: B&D-coloured glasses ...
Date: 2015-09-06 07:03 pm (UTC)Doyle just accepts it. I assume because he has no doubts whatsoever, even subconsciously, that Bodie sees him as an equal and therefore can afford not to defend his honour. Given their perpetual game of one-upmanship, it's a profound statement of respect and trust.
omg yes. I can't believe I missed homing in on that observation!
Theme tunes ... the Pros one is actually not my favourite ::ducks and runs:: *g* ... but I do get a total earworm of the theme from Minder sometimes! And sometimes the one from New Tricks, amusingly enough - is it true Dennis Waterman insisted on singing the theme tune himself for everything he was in? *vbg*
RE: B&D-coloured glasses ...
Date: 2015-09-06 07:35 pm (UTC)Who am I to doubt the word of David Walliams?! :0)