Reading Room XVI: Stories with Sequels - Cards on the Table Part Two by Georgina Kirrin

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Title: Cards on the Table Part Two
Author: Georgina Kirrin
Pairing: Bodie/Doyle
Link to story: at the author's website

I never really think of this as a third part to the Cards stories, as much as a continuation of the second part, but in fact it's set two years after we've last seen Bodie, just arrived at Doyle's house in London, so the separation is completely legitimate! It must just be the title - now there's a question to get us started: how much does the title of a story affect your reading of it/whether you read it...?

Meanwhile, it's the 1990s and our lads are running the London Marathon together - they're partners again, albeit running partners this time - and Doyle looked fit and relaxed. Bodie felt he was entitled to claim at least some of the credit for that... and off we go, whizzing past the crowds lining the route of the marathon, and nipping in and out of memory lane with Bodie at the same time.

We do alot in htese flashbacks. We meet Amita again, and a slightly more awake Amita meets Bodie properly. We find out how good at his new job Doyle is, and how serious he is about it (he might be embarrassed to be caught by Bodie on radio, but he listens to it himself, assessing how he's done, its potential impact). We find out that Doyle is called "Father Superior" at work, because he doesn't seem to have any vices - including sleeping around - but that he doesn't seem at all fazed by the idea that people might think he's dating Bodie. And then we find out that he's still missing Indira - that he doesn't want anyone else... and then that she wants to divorce him. Is there any hope for Bodie, running doggedly along in the marathon? Maybe there is, because it's Bodie that Doyle turn to after a funeral, and it's Doyle that nurses Bodie through food poisoning.

So is there hope...?

Having built up the tension - worried us a bit perhaps - then given us cause to still wonder, to still cross our fingers and hold our thumbs and want, want, want the lads to get back together, we're back at the marathon. Our lads cross the line together, even their breathing synchronised, they finished together. Are they finally at the same place in their lives? Disaster strikes - Bodie's accidentally outed by an old mate, and seizes what might be his only chance to say it. "Ray, I love you."

Of course this is fic, so Doyle is immediately called away to work, and we have to wait with Bodie as all their closeness through the marathon seems to fall flat, as all the aches and pains that had been momentarily banished while they were running creep slowly back...

...and then the doorbell rings.

So... what do you think of what comes next? Is Doyle really reluctant, or just unsure, or is it that he just hasn't come to terms, as Bodie has, with how he feels about Bodie? Because he wants to try, says You deserve something better than a friend who wants to try to be more but can't promise he'll succeed, but he's the one who asks Bodie to pull him up, so that they can hold each other.

And there's my favourite lines:
Doyle moved himself a little closer. "I'm told I snore."
"Yes, I know, I'm the one who told you. Look, are you going to stop wittering and let me kiss you?"

*sighs happily* Because Doyle does, and it's lovely... *g* And it leads onto the last line:
It wasn't that funny, but they ended up holding one another up, weak with laughter.
Which, as Bodie was to point out over twenty years later, wasn't a bad way to start a new life.

1. What do you think of the way Kirrin starts this part of the series: having left a two year gap, she lets us know what's happened via flashbacks. Is it effective or annoying? Why do you think she did it?

2. Who's funeral was it? Sorry, I have to sneak this in, cos every time I read this I try and work it out, but I don't think it was Cowley's, cos he's not a "young life", but there aren't any other clues, are there...? Have I missed something obvious?

3. What do you think of the ending - was it worth it all? Did it fit with the rest of the story, for you?

4. What did you think?

*g* I had half a dozen, much more clever questions in my head as I wrote this, but they sort of vanished into all the other words...

It's good though, innit? *g*

Comments

[jessebee.livejournal.com]

1. This is interesting, because normally flashbacks annoy me quite a lot, but these ... don't. In this case I think they are a rather effective way for the author to start the story as close to the end as possible and still fill in the missing time for the reader WITHOUT having to write those entire two years. And that would be a MUCH longer story. ;-)

2. No clue whose funeral, some young policeman I would think. It's not Cowley - it's stated somewhere where in the story(s) that he's been dead for seven years already.

3. I did like the ending (particularly the line you quoted, which makes me snicker every time), although some more graphic lovin' would have been more satisfying emotionally, imho. But that's just me.

4. Overall, I love this series. Kirrin writes the lads very well, and I can quite believe her version of the "older" them. I've always thought that her observation (through Cowley) that Doyle needs the police as much as they need him was particularly astute.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Sooo sorry for the delay - last week was an awful work week..

I agree about the flashbacks - I often don't like them in a fic, they can be used too heavy-handedly and for no good reason when a story could be written linearly, but they worked for me in this case. Maybe because the memories were tied in to the marathon, and there was a connection made between the two things. And maybe because the story was written as a series of stories in the first place - it was never meant to be perfectly linear or it would have been written as a single long story...

2. No clue whose funeral, some young policeman I would think. It's not Cowley - it's stated somewhere where in the story(s) that he's been dead for seven years already.
Oh yes, so Cowley has been! I always end up assuming that it's a random young death, but there's something about the way that's written that makes me think I should be seeing more in it...

although some more graphic lovin' would have been more satisfying emotionally, imho. But that's just me.
Hee - it might be me too... *g* But I liked the ending this way too... and of course there are often complaints that when they do finally get to bed together at the end it's cos an author felt like they had to tack it on to satisfy people, so... I wonder if there are authors out there who deliberately don't take the lads to their culmination (so to speak...*g*) as a result of that sort of comment too... Not that I think this is one of them... but I would have liked to see them in bed together in this one...

Actually, I've just thought of something else about that last line and the way it pulls things together too. Through this last bit, Doyle has doubts that what he can offer will be enough for Bodie, but he puts his faith in it working out, and he really wants it to work out - he lets Bodie pull him up (and from the chair). Then they have their first moment of passion, and it's a gorgeous kiss. Then Bodie's so happy, and so relieved that it's all gone right, and he says "...now I have the only thing in my trousers that isn't stiff as a board is my todger." - "You poor old soul," Doyle said... He hitched a little closer and Bodie's heart turned over, the last of his doubts disappearing in a surge of joy that lifted his mood like a sky-rocket." I wonder if the last of our doubts are supposed to disappear there too, because Doyle is moving closer to Bodie And at the every end, they ended up holding one another up, symbolic of them being together emotionally and passionately and in every way? Equal in love at last? Hmmn...

I've always thought that her observation (through Cowley) that Doyle needs the police as much as they need him was particularly astute.
Yes! I like that too - and I can totally see that Doyle in the eps!

[moonlightmead.livejournal.com]

Grin, good line to pick, yes. I think my favourite is "Eh?" said Doyle, inelegantly" :)

Reading this story the first time, I actually got very confused and found it difficult to get a grasp on the structure - not the 'scenes interpolated into the marathon run' shape of it, but which of those scenes had happened when. And then the end has no flashback scenes in at all, of course, so it's almost like a coda. I think this has a lot more to do with wanting to get to the end and to find out what happened than it does with the story itself, though. Certainly, I don't have that trouble when I read it now.

The funeral: it's one of Doyle's men, isn't it? And Doyle is realising how Cowley must have felt when he had to attend the funeral of men who were his responsibility, which is something he didn't know back when he was an agent rather than the boss. So, yeah, a new appreciation of him now, since he is now the one attending the funerals, and time to toast him with a different understanding.

I was happy with the ending. I said in the other two posts that I wasn't confident they'd get together in 'Cards', and there is another pair of 'unacknowledged love/lust' stories by the same author which I had read before this, so I knew she didn't automatically end up with them together. So I was relieved that in this one, they get together!

I wasn't sure about Doyle's 'am I enough' doubts, silly Doyle. But perhaps that is the new Doyle, the one who thinks everything through now and argues carefully in select committees, instead of holding people over the edge of roofs.

I think if it had stopped right after the kiss, it would definitely have been much more muted. I really needed that last line about over twenty years later to be reassured that finally it was going to be alright. Especially because this was one of the first older lads stories I read, and I kept fretting that they had lost so much time, which is something you have to accept in an older lads story where they don't start out together, and I wasn't used to it.

I always think of this one as 'the story with the marathon'. I thought the marathon scenes were brilliant and wondered if the author had run it, or just knew people who had. I remember writing some feedback to the author and mentioning that in particular. Despite my confusion the first time, I do like the structure. I do tend to wince when song lyrics are used in stories, because I never know the songs, and I tend to feel left outside whatever the author was trying to allude to. But I suppose I can cope with a repeared refrain of "is you is or is you ain't" :)

I love the end of the marathon scene, and Todd, and the - as you say, this is fic, it has to happen then - moment of "I love you" and Doyle being pulled away at exactly that moment - ohhh, poor Bodie! (Heh for the Mark Latham alias though.) And his utter misery on the way back, exactly when it should all have been a triumph, and no appetite for anything in that fridge, and bloody shampoo - what a wreck of his big day.

There's so much packed into this story. It was only on a re-reading I noticed the name of Amita's book - The Three Little Wolves and the Big Bad Pig, but I did notice that she is playing with a petrol station rather than a doll's house on the first reading. Don't know whether that is Doyle's purchase or Indira's, but I like the fact that a garage is not traditional girls' play. I am not sure I see Doyle as thinking that clearly about "want to buy non-gender-stereotyped toys" - not the Doyle of CI5, whose ability with kids seems to be limited to invading boys' football games and thinking one baby is indistinguishable from another to its mum (The Gun and that brilliant line about "Can't you just get her any baby, she won't know the difference"!) perhaps this more thoughtful, analytical older Doyle might.

In general, though, I love it, and I still notice things for the first time when I re-read it. Great series to start this theme with!

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Sooo sorry for the delay in replying - last week was a helluva week...

I actually got very confused and found it difficult to get a grasp on the structure ... which of those scenes had happened when
Oh, interesting... I don't think I ever thought of it that way, because the fact that the lads were running together almost makes it that it doesn't matter which of Bodie's memories came first etc, we know that they ended up together so far...

The funeral: it's one of Doyle's men, isn't it?
Yeah, that's what I've always assumed, and Doyle-is-now-Cowley, but there's something about the way it's written which always makes me wonder if I'm missing some extra meaning in there... 'spect it's just me... *g*

I wasn't sure about Doyle's 'am I enough' doubts, silly Doyle.
I think alot of that must come from his problems with Indira too - he wasn't enough for her, he couldn't help her with the one thing that really worried her, that really damaged her, he just couldn't make it right. Even though he knew on one level it wasn't his fault, as he explained it to Bodie, I think it ended up colouring his self-confidence where relationships were concerned. And he loves and admires Bodie so much (we can tell in the eps *g*) that if he couldn't live up to Indira, how could he live up to Bodie? Silly Doyle! *g*

Amita's garage must go back to the incident in Florida, where Doyle rescued them from the carjackers at the petrol station? I actually like how that's not spelled out, but of course we see Ammie asking Bodie about guns there too, so it's obviously still playing on her mind... But I love that she does play with a petrol station too, just on the children's toys level! And I can see her asking Doyle if she could have one in the toyshop sometime too, and it playing a bit on his insecurities, but also hoping it would reassure her... The Big Bad Pig book really is out there somewhere - there was a rush of children's books that turned traditional stereotypes/fairytales on their head. My favourite was the one about the princess who was told she had to choose a prince, and they all came to court her and just weren't right, and then one day this gorgeous, charming, wonderful prince came and did all the tasks she set him (cleaning out her pet tiger, reorganising her library... whatever they were), and she turned to him and... told him thank you no, and she went back to living happily on her own with her pets and everything... *g*

[gilda-elise.livejournal.com]

1. What do you think of the way Kirrin starts this part of the series: having left a two year gap, she lets us know what's happened via flashbacks. Is it effective or annoying? Why do you think she did it?

I didn't have a problem with the flashbacks. I think she did it that way so that two years could pass without the story having to be a lot longer than it is. In flashbacks, the writer can give you specific snippets to fill the reader in as to what's gone on. If she were to have written the story with a straight time line, I think the story would have had to be much longer.

2. Who's funeral was it? Sorry, I have to sneak this in, cos every time I read this I try and work it out, but I don't think it was Cowley's, cos he's not a "young life", but there aren't any other clues, are there...? Have I missed something obvious?

At first I thought it might be someone Doyle worked with, but after a second reading I'm more inclined to think it's an official ceremony, so perhaps someone important or news worthy. The nail bombing was around the same time (maybe, since the flashbacks aren't given exact dates, but the first was before the marathon.)

3. What do you think of the ending - was it worth it all? Did it fit with the rest of the story, for you?

I liked that it was there but, no, I didn't think it fit the rest of the story. It was as if she knew she needed that "fix" so that readers would know that Bodie and Doyle stay together, because that's not a sure thing from the rest of the story. In fact, without that last line, I would have been left feeling unsatisfied, not sure if it did, in fact, work out between them.

4. What did you think?

Pretty much what I thought of the rest of the story. She's a great writer, but this particular story didn't do it for me.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Sorry for the huuuuge delay, work was a nightmare last week...

In flashbacks, the writer can give you specific snippets to fill the reader in as to what's gone on. If she were to have written the story with a straight time line, I think the story would have had to be much longer.
Yeah - I think that's the way alot of people do do it, and I think that's why flashback stories often fail for me - they end up being a way to get the story to the place the author wants to start from, without having to do any of that pesky writing... *g* But I think they can be used in other ways too, much more purposefully, and I get the impression that they're more tied in to what the author wants us to know and feel about the characters here. The marathon is showing us what the lads' relationship is now, just as much as the flashbacks, and both are kind of moving forward, a reflection of each other... and they work for me, in this story.

Interesting thought about the nail bombing, yes perhaps it was more of an official representation at a funeral of that kind, rather than "just" a member of his force... Mind you, if it'd been the latter and they'd been shot, perhaps, it might have called for the ceremony and sadness too - that doesn't happen over here a tenth of the time we're led to believe it happens in the US, killed in the line of duty, cos it's not so easy to do without guns... But maybe that'd be why I feel like I'm missing something too - it's almost as if the author expects us to know who it is, so if she was referring to someone famous, a big official funeral around the time this is set/she was writing that might explain it...

In fact, without that last line, I would have been left feeling unsatisfied, not sure if it did, in fact, work out between them.
Oh, interesting... I was never in doubt that it'd work out between them, except perhaps at the moment Doyle's called away at the end of the marathon - would they lose their chance? And I wonder if it's cos the author matches the pace of the lads to the pace of the marathon: they have to plod through all the separation and the mess with Indira, and Doyle recovering from it, in order to get to their own triumphant ending, where even their breathing synchronised, they finished together in both marathon and life in general... the marathon is a foreshadowing of their general success together as well as just of winning the race... And Doyle's called away to work, just as he was called away by Cowley to the police, and Bodie seems to be on his own, but Doyle always comes back to him in the end, no matter what life throws at them.. and since this is written from Bodie's pov, it's of course Doyle-coming-back that we see, rather than Bodie-coming-back, which I suppose Doyle would see...

I'm sorry this doesn't work for you, but thanks for helping me think lots more cool things about it! *g*

[solosundance.livejournal.com]

I was a bit discombobulated by the two year gap at first, but I soon caught up *g* I suppose there had to be that period of time for the separation/divorce to have gone through, but I have to say I felt kind of bad for Bodie being best friend and shoulder to cry on and running partner all that time and being unrequited.

I wasn't mad on the flashback construction, would have preferred this particular part of the story to be linear. It would have made it much longer though which perhaps would have unbalanced it as a series.

In the end, although I think all three were really well written and I loved the characterisation and voices of the lads, I wasn't quite satisfied with this part. Somehow I wanted there to be, after everything, more passion. Not sex, but passion. I felt a little short-changed on how Doyle felt for Bodie and although I appreciate the realism of how they're entering the future I wanted to know that Doyle lusted after Bodie the same way Bodie did after him (with his pesky incipient erections, heh). Somehow I didn't quite get the emotional pay-off I was hoping for. Interesting - perhaps that's a Bodie bias showing and if I had more of a Doyle bias (wrong word really but you know what I mean?) I wouldn't feel that.

Excellent choice of series though.

[moonlightmead.livejournal.com]

Somehow I wanted there to be, after everything, more passion. Not sex, but passion. [...]
I didn't quite get the emotional pay-off I was hoping for. Interesting - perhaps that's a Bodie bias showing and if I had more of a Doyle bias (wrong word really but you know what I mean?) I wouldn't feel that.
I have quite a Doyle bias, and I agree with you.

As I said before, I needed that "twenty years later" remark at the end to be reassured that it was all going to be okay at all; and even so, it was very much a more cautious Doyle than the one I tend to see. Even a Doyle desperately and angrily flailing for words to explain why he thought he wasn't enough would have resonated more.

Hmm - I wonder. Is it the muted Doyle emotions that aren't so satisfying, or the quiet and cautious way Doyle talks in that scene? That is, if he had been all frustrated as he tried to explain he wasn't enough, would that have been different for you?

[solosundance.livejournal.com]

Is it the muted Doyle emotions that aren't so satisfying, or the quiet and cautious way Doyle talks in that scene? That is, if he had been all frustrated as he tried to explain he wasn't enough, would that have been different for you?

Yes maybe. I did find Doyle a little muted towards the end, in terms of emotion (or 'passion' since I think of Doyle as immensely passionate in all senses). Although I'm not precisely sure what I wanted - not a repeat of the scene from the earlier story where he broke down all over Bodie (about his wife), but... something. The thoughtfulness (and tendency to blame himself in advance) did feel very Doyle to me though - but that was something you weren't sure of! It's so fascinating, the different ways we can 'read' the same character - both from canon and from fanfic :))

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Sorry about the delay in writing back - stupid work (and melting eyes as a result....)

Muted Doyle does seem rather strange, doesn't he... But I guess it does fit with his new Cowley-like responsibilities, and I think Bodie's more muted too. He didn't run away to do something exciting in Africa or rejoin the SAS or something (though he gives reasons for that) he joins a friend's firm in the US as a partner - so he's actually much more grown up too... and all that talk about "thinking about opening a branch in London" - business Bodie! But we're tightly in his pov, so it's not so obvious that he's muted of course, cos we're only seeing muted-outside Doyle from Bodie's pov, but we're getting all the internal-chaos of Bodie, so it seems mismatched... Presumably Doyle also has internal-chaos, that may largely be about Bodie (of course it is!) but we don't hear it... And Doyle's lost alot of confidence too - Bodie left him to go overseas, and then he couldn't help Indira, couldn't keep his family together. I do wish he'd not seemed to love Indira so much, but then perhaps that's very Doyle too - he said he'd fancied Bodie from the moment he set eyes on him, so he presumably was hands-off for the same reasons Bodie was (they're as bad as each other...) We've seen Doyle threaten to marry someone in the eps, that's his way of dealing with not being able to have Bodie, so I think he kind of took refuge in Indira, and then that refuge all fell apart, and since she was his second choice anyway, why on earth would he think he'd be enough for his first choice, Bodie? In much the same way as Bodie didn't think Doyle would ever have chosen him, and so didn't give him an opening to do so... So I don't know if it's to do with a Doyle-bias, but I do think they were as bad as each other, and it needed one of them to make the leap of faith, and it turned out to be Bodie - but even then not until after the marathon... I think Doyle may well have been just as unrequited - we just don't get to hear about it!

Discombobulated is the perfect word for how I felt about the two year gap too - but as you say, you catch right up... *g* I've just been wittering to someone else about the marathon being a kind of foreshadowing that they'd be alright together too - they have to endure all the aches and pains and potential falls of it, but they come in together at the end, just as they did in real life... *g*

I know what you mean about the ending - just a little more oomph of some kind would have helped more, on Doyle's part as well as Bodie's. We get Bodie with his skyrockets and his bear-hug and heaved him off his feet, but Doyle is all hitched himself closer - his desire comes through much smaller, less-confident and calm-seeming movements... I do think it's there, and I'm reassured that he said he fancied Bodie rotten as soon as they met in Cowley's office, but.. yeah, a bit more oomph would have made it perfect.

[firlefanzine.livejournal.com]

"I did find Doyle a little muted towards the end, in terms of emotion (or 'passion' since I think of Doyle as immensely passionate in all senses). Although I'm not precisely sure what I wanted - not a repeat of the scene from the earlier story where he broke down all over Bodie (about his wife), but... something."
I agree! Even if he would stop talking and start laughing about himself for his own lack of passion would be such a 'something' you were talking about. Or just a "Christ Bodie!" Something!

[firlefanzine.livejournal.com]

As some mentioned above, there is this strange lack of passion from Doyle in the end.
So I was concerned and needed the last sentence, to be sure it would work out for them.

(Oh, with 'passion' I don't mean the usual first sex, which I really don't miss here at that point!)

My main reason for this concern is the lack of trust Doyle shows when he keeps Bodie out of his job.
"Doyle never talked about his job...and Bodie had never asked him to, recognising that as a civilian he was no longer entitled... It hurt, although he knew it shouldn't, to be cut out like this... they had drifted too far apart: what he wanted and what Doyle wanted and needed, two entirely different things..."
Come on! This is Bodie! The man Doyle trusted with his life when they were in CI5. It would be natural to talk to Bodie about things at work.
He's an expert as well, he would help to sort things out. He has his own connections. Maybe he could do things Doyle isn't allowed... A perfect team! ;-)
I really think that Bodie would have involved Doyle in his job if things would be vice versa - even if it's not allowed...!
(Is it? I mean, is it forbidden to talk even to your wife(partner)?)

But that's just my uncertainty about the 'happy end'.

Despite that I love all three stories!


Oh, your questions...

1. What do you think of the way Kirrin starts this part of the series: having left a two year gap, she lets us know what's happened via flashbacks. Is it effective or annoying? Why do you think she did it?
Very, very effective! I like that very much.
You've written: "Yeah - I think that's the way alot of people do do it, and I think that's why flashback stories often fail for me - they end up being a way to get the story to the place the author wants to start from, without having to do any of that pesky writing..."
What's wrong with that? If it's 'pesky' why do it? And for the reader it's the same. He won't have to do any of that 'pesky' reading! ;-)

2. Who's funeral was it? Sorry, I have to sneak this in, cos every time I read this I try and work it out, but I don't think it was Cowley's, cos he's not a "young life", but there aren't any other clues, are there...? Have I missed something obvious?
I can't believe that the author means a special event. Because the exact years are only mentioned once or twice, and not at that point as much as I remember.
I thought that the 'young life' was a killed policeman. And Doyle feels the loss much more now that he is in Cowley's position.

3. + 4. What do you think of the ending - was it worth it all? Did it fit with the rest of the story, for you?
See above. :-)


Thank you for such a good choice of fics! :-)