Early Pros Writer Sue S. aka The Android Removing Some Stories From Website In 2012

[taverymate.livejournal.com]

Or Adventures in tracking Pros stories, the importance of saving things, and the value of feedback!

I just found out that Sue S. aka The Android (amongst several other pseudonyms) will be removing a number of fan fiction stories from her website in 2012; some written by Sue, some written by others. Sue is one of the earliest Pros writers and has written in numerous other fandoms over the past thirty years.



Her fandoms include but are not limited to: The Agony and The Ecstasy, Airwolf, Automan, The Bill, Colditz, Doctor Who, The God of Gamblers, Happy Days, Hawaii Five-O, Henry V, The High Chaparral, The Incredible Hulk, Inspector Morse, James Bond, Jeeves and Wooster, Kojak, Lark Rise To Candleford, Les Miserables, Lovejoy, Men in Black, Perfect Scoundrels, Poirot, The Professionals, Quantum Leap, Shogun, The Six Million Dollar Man, Stargate SG-1, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, Star Trek: Enterprise, The Three Musketeers, The Virginian, Warship, The West Wing.

Stories slated for removal include two Pros stories: "Inside Information" and "Cause For Concern". Though Sue has written many more Pros stories, only these two have been online at her website recently. Her website, The Dungeon, has removed stories in the past, notably several by MerLyn - including some Pros crossover stories.

I found Sue's "Hit List" (her phrase, not mine *g*) when looking for a current link to "Inside Information" in response to a request via Prosfinder. Someone asked about Pros stories where prisons played a prominent role, and I listed several - amongst them the Circuit story "Inside Information". Another Pros fan asked if I had a link to that story.

Well, my paper copy is from the Circuit, my Proslib copy is from the days of floppy disks (which I still have!), and my html copy is from the early days of The Dungeon (Sue's website) circa 2000. And while I try to keep up with my bookmarks - especially Pros - I wasn't sure if the story was still online.

I knew that in 2006 the Hatstand Archive had linked two stories ("Inside Information" and "Cause For Concern") at Sue's website, using the same URL I had bookmarked. A quick check showed the Hatstand still has the same URL. However, when I checked, Sue's website had moved this past February. Luckily, Sue had a redirect page with a dated explanatory note.

I checked out the new website and found Sue's notice that she'd be removing some stories in 2012. I would STRONGLY urge anyone interested in her stories to save copies NOW as there is no indication when this year the "Hit List" stories will be removed.

Many of these stories are not found elsewhere online, though a majority were zine published or Circuit stories (in the case of Pros), so paper copies do exist. Still, tracking down OOP zines and Circuit stories can be quite an undertaking.

Here are links for those wanting to visit Sue's site and read and/or save stories.

Sue aka The Android's website, The Dungeon:
http://therealandroidsdungeon.blogspot.com/

Sue's "Hit List" - stories slated for removal in 2012:
http://therealandroidsdungeon.blogspot.com/p/hit-list.html

Direct link to Inside Information (Pros):
https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1ULzE4SwtAGcupb9rLGUc-WJT15H44LdEODf9-JOv-zY

INSIDE INFORMATION (3,640 words)
An undercover assignment has meant a month in Wormwood Scrubs for Bodie. When he's released he doesn't seem to relish Doyle's company any more. Something that happened inside must have changed him - but what?


Direct link to Cause For Concern (Pros):
https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1Xw4Ht2ba49arVKekC-olavLsIF2MrQdKOYsvrqh4eaU

CAUSE FOR CONCERN (22,630 words)
Bodie and Doyle are sharing everything, even their women; they're too close. Cowley decides to intervene - and his plan involves the return of Ann Holly, Doyle's former fiancee.


I also want to urge folks to send LOCs - even just a few words - if you read and/or save any of the stories on The Dungeon website. I've never met a Pros author yet who hasn't been delighted to hear that her stories are still being read and enjoyed - and I'm sure that Sue, or any of the other authors with stories at The Dungeon, are no exception.

In particular, it struck me that Sue said: "This will probably be the Dungeon's last incarnation; it's been in existence for more than ten years, but most of the stories had already been published in zines long before they appeared online and must now be of only antiquarian interest to most fans." [Emphasis added by me.]

I think she is dead wrong, and it saddens me that this perception is behind stories being removed from easy online access - and possibly the disappearance of the entire website in the future.

One thing I have consistently found is that Pros authors - or authors in any other fandom with a long history - tend to vastly underestimate current and ongoing interest in older stories, especially if they have moved onto other fandoms or left fandom entirely.

DON'T FORGET: Not only are there always people entering new-to them fandoms to whom all stories are "new" but many longtime fen have great affection for older stories and continue to reread and recommend them. And even longtime fen still have stories they have never read - particularly in fandoms like Pros where there are literally thousands of stories that have been written over the decades.

But readers, too, suffer from misperceptions. All too often, readers assume that authors from the early years of a fandom are impossible to reach and so don't even try to send feedback. Take a minute and TRY - it's not that hard!

Many stories will list a contact email for feedback. If there isn't an email on the story itself, check the website. Nearly all websites have contact info. If a site has multiple authors, the webmaster will nearly always have individual contact info and will gladly pass on emails to the individual authors. Both the Hatstand Archive and Circuit Archive explicitly state they will pass on LOCs to authors.

The Proslib archivist, Frances, includes this note at the end of every story post: "If you enjoy a story, please consider sending a comment, however brief, to the author. If no e-mail address is included send it to proslib-owner AT yahoogroups DOT com [changed to prevent spambot harvesting] and we'll do our best to pass it on."

If you're reading a zine story, check the info page. Most will include an email for LOCs. If there isn't one, check the publisher's website for contact info. Again, most zine publishers will be delighted to pass on LOCs. Hell, they'll be delighted to hear from a reader, period! In the very, very, very rare case that the zine publisher is not online - find a stamp and use the mail service. Your hand won't wither and fall off and the world won't end if you actually send a letter! *g*

Crossposted to The Safehouse

Comments

[scherwood]

Thank you for this heads up! :)

I agree that no stories are outdated, but the thing is.. I'd rather search over at A03 or Circuit Archive where I know I can navigate, rather than searching all over the internet.. and I'm afraid this might be the reason why I haven't seen a lot of stories.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

You'll miss out on alot... Just sayin'... *g*

[scherwood]

I know.. but I'd rather have that than nothing, because I really do SUCK at searching on the Net, ask my sister if you don't believe me. *g* ;)

... and zines.. I don't have that kind of money. *shrug*

[mab-browne.livejournal.com]

Think of it as exploration. ;-) I remember going hunting back in the day for both Pros and TS, and it was amazing what I found.

[scherwood]

Oh, I will... I love exploring. \o/
I believe you, I'm sure it was great.. I will have fab time. :)

[taverymate.livejournal.com]

Archives & Internet Searches

I understand fully the allure of a good archive when it comes to finding large numbers of stories in a short amount of time. I'm particularly fond of dedicated fandom archives for precisely that reason. Both Hatstand archives (original & automated) and the Circuit Archive are fantastic for Pros immersion.

However, while AO3 has several good points, it is a nightmare for searches. The basic search function is ludicriously inadequate; the advanced search funtion is equally lacking. The fact that searches won't return more than 1000 results without arcane and highly non-intuitive workarounds makes it virtually useless for fandoms with large numbers of stories. The tagging system is not only a nightmare for tag wranglers, it is functionally counter-productive for users and non-scaleable to boot. I find it incomprehensible that the over-whelming majority of their efforts have been geared to attracting content and readers while ignoring the basic tenet of information management: Content that is not properly categorized, indexed, and searchable is functionally useless.

In contrast, navigating the Internet for Pros resources is a snap - and often more productive in a shorter period of time! As byslantedlight points out below, searching the main Pros LJ (or Dreamwidth communities) will easily and quickly return large amounts of Pros fiction. And many of those stories are not archived elsewhere - which I would strongly encourage as I'm a firm believer in archival redundancy.

[inamac.livejournal.com]

By contrast, I've found AO3 easy to navigate, and to find fic for the fandoms I'm interested in - the headline fandom searches are right here on the 'Fandoms' page - it's only two clicks to get to Pros (currently 1101 stories), and then you can sort by characters and tags on the side bar (or you could before the takedown of FFnet overloaded the AO3 system - which is hardly their fault).

If I'm looking for new fanfic then AO3 is my first port of call - after which I rely on recs from friends (and on here) rather than having to search through the dross in search of the gold myself.

[bodiecuddle.livejournal.com]

THAMKS THANKS THANKS!! You are brilliant!!

[taverymate.livejournal.com]

You're welcome. It's always a good feeling to connect fen with stories. Hope you find some stories that you enjoy!

[snailbones.livejournal.com]

Thanks for letting us know, and for providing so much detail. You're a star!

[taverymate.livejournal.com]

You're welcome. The notice came as a surprise to me and since I'd not seen it mentioned in Pros circles, thought I'd post so that other Pros fen could read or save things before they disappear.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Thanks very much for that heads-up - I'd noted the changes to be made at loiteringpalely, but hadn't seen the "Hitlist" - nightmare! And it is sad that authors don't realise that their stories live on after they themselves have moved on... Presumably the Android has moved so far from Pros fandom that she doesn't realise it's still pretty active, that there are new fans all the time, and that it's far from "antiquated"!

You've made an excellent point about feedback though - I know I'm definitely guilty of not sending enough, and for just the reason you've given, because I assume that older authors will no longer be contactable at the addresses they gave to sites like Circuit many years ago... But if they're still out there, albeit under other names and in other fandoms, then they may still be contact-able, and very pleased to know that someone's read something they read all that time ago... I know receiving feedback for older stories I've written always makes me smile...

[taverymate.livejournal.com]

Speaking of Palely Loitering, I've another large set of zine info for you - this time it's primarily the GEN zines. Lots of additions. I'll try to send an email over the weekend.

It is sad that more authors aren't aware that their stories do have a life beyond their own fandom participation. Still, in all fairness, there can often be a deafening silence from readers and if there is no feedback, how is an author to know whether a story still has an audience? As a longtime fannish reader, my default is that a fan fiction story always has a potential audience. I suspect the default for many (most?) fan fiction authors is that a story has to be actively marketed to have a current audience, and if you're not marketing it, it won't have an audience. Particularly when a story is decades old and fandom popularity can wax and wane multiple times. I think that erroneous belief comes from the professional book market and simply isn't fully applicable to fan fiction.

And in the case of Pros, its demise has been falsely predicted innumerable times without seeming regard for the actual activity level!

As to connecting older stories, readers, feedback, and authors - well, I have thoughts albeit somewhat amorphous thoughts at the moment. I shall continue to ponder...

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Brilliant, thank you! I know I keep saying it, but I will get back on track with palelyloitering... I just need life to even itself out again - cross fingers for early and successful moving on (even if I don't know where yet).

Interesting thoughts about authors "marketing" their stories - I've often wondered how that effects things (some people are obviously more about "marketing" than others. I've generally worried about authors who aren't into marketing, but simply love writing their stories, but it's a good point that authors who do market might also be "lost" if they think that their marketing is no longer currently effective...

Oh, I hate the word "marketing" when coupled with fandom though - it's so much more suitable to other markets entirely, ie the professional book market, as you say!

Shall hope to hear about your amorphous thoughts as soon as they're ready - I'm intrigued! *g*

[hutchynstarsk.livejournal.com]

(butting my nose in)
Ooooh... I'm very curious about gen zines!!!

[moonlightmead.livejournal.com]

I assume that older authors will no longer be contactable at the addresses they gave to sites like Circuit many years ago..

It's hit and miss, isn't it? I have just glanced at my email. I am comparatively a very new arrival not just to Pros but to fandom generally. I had a very near miss back in the late nineties, when someone gave me the password to get at a bunch of B7 slash. After *years* of my looking for it. And she mentioned that LOCs would be appreciated. I didn't know what they were supposed to include. And I thought that there was a sort of quid pro quo: that it was only fair to say something about what had been shared with you before asking people to share more (different times - it really felt that I had been *entrusted* with something, it was definitely not something to talk about in public, there were rules about obscenity* over JANET -- the UK academic network -- at the time, etc etc). And because I didn't know what to say, I never got back in touch. And I regretted that for a long time.

And then, much more recently, Pros. And again, mention of LOCs. And I still had no bloody idea what they were *supposed* to look like. But I took the plunge and sent one ("hello! this iz a reeder! I liuke yuor storie!" or at least at a similar level of coherency) to an author whose work I liked. And... nothing happened. And then I sent one to another. And... nothing happened.

But on the third time, I had a lovely email expressing pleasure that people were reading something from so long ago (the story was about 15 years old). And on the fourth one, I had a response within *hours* from an email address I found on a page apparently last updated eleven years previously. The fifth time, an author told me some of the background to a story, and I was very touched that she shared the story. The sixth... well, yes, anyway, I'm not going through the whole of my email.

But yes, definitely, some of them get through -- even when the last known address is over ten years old.


* (ETA) Not that I thought it was obscene, obviously, but, well, being hauled up in front of the authorities to explain why not was not top of my list of things to do at the time.

[anna060957.livejournal.com]

Thank you! I've visited the site, downloaded two stories to get me going and left a comment.
(Mainly because I am guilty of not leaving comments!)
I'll try very hard to turn over a new leaf and leave more comments!

[taverymate.livejournal.com]

Glad you visited and saved stories - and especially happy that you left a comment. You just made my month with your goal to leave more comments and feedback. I know it will be appreciated!

[firlefanzine.livejournal.com]

Thank you! I will definitely check it!
...I always do! :-)

[taverymate.livejournal.com]

You're welcome. I've not been able to participate lately in the Reading Room, but I want to mention that I really enjoy your willingness to read and discuss a variety of Pros stories. You always add to the discussion and I really appreciate your honest opinions.

Edited to add: I forgot to say Thank You! for taking on the job of posting reminders for the Reading Room. That is enormously helpful.

[lukadreaming.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the tip-off - I've nipped in and saved the fic. I don't recall reading her Pros fic, but I did not so long ago read her Colditz and The Bill fic, as someone recommended them ...

[taverymate.livejournal.com]

Great! Those two actually aren't my favorites of her Pros, but I think it's important to make sure they don't disappear from circulation in Pros. I'm not sure why she never did have most of her Pros stories on the website though. Still, Proslib has several of other stories (under a couple of pseudonyms) and I hope they will continue to add more. Sue's been such an important part of early Pros history that I would hate for that to be lost.

And Sue has some real gems on her website. I've retained a somewhat inexplicable attraction to the crossover madness of the Black Box - though sadly, I think it was removed from the website some time ago. One thing I really appreciate about Sue's website is the variety of smaller, British fandoms. It's not easy to find Inspector Morse or Lovejoy or Perfect Rascals or The Bill or Colditz fiction.

[shooting2kill.livejournal.com]

Thanks very much for this. And just for information, I recently managed to locate Cause for Concern and Inside Information at the Wayback Machine via the Hatstand link. If all else fails it's often worth trying.

[taverymate.livejournal.com]

That's an excellent point - thanks for reminding folks about the Wayback Machine!

The Wayback Machine is a mainstay in my search toolbox. Had I not been able to find Sue's new URL for the website, I would have checked the Wayback Machine to see if I could find copies there. Unfortunately, many Pros sites have never been archived there - or worse, they have been archived but the site owners/maintainers refuse to let others access the archival copies. That makes me furious.

Even if a website owner/maintaine feels they need to minimize current exposure by using the robots.txt file to prevent search engines from listing them, they could - and should!! - put in an exception to allow the Wayback Machine to archive the site for future use.

And that can work in the site owner's best interests as well. I've known more than a few who had to resort to pulling copies from the Wayback Machine when their site went down and content was lost because they didn't have backups or the backups were corrupted.

[hutchynstarsk.livejournal.com]

Thank you for talking about this important issue!!!