Reading Room 9, or not?

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

"Stories where the lads are outed" seems to have hardly any support at all as the next reading room theme - unless it's just that everyone would like a bit of a break in general, or are fed up with Reading Room entirely. I thought I'd better find out which of those it is! *g*

Skipping over the Stories of the Seasons suggestion, which would take a bit of setting up and needs thinking about/discussing with the person who suggested it, the theme in our last list of suggestions is "Fusion Stories" - not crossovers, but stories based on other stories, such as Professional Dreamer by Pam Rose, or The Ghost and Mr Doyle in Unprofessional Conduct 5. The Hatstand has a fusion story list (which I'm guessing is where the genre title came from!) which also includes stories inspired by songs, such as Sebastian's Down to the Waterline and "other media" - we could include those too, which would probably open up the field for suggestions no end!

If we don't like the sound of that, the theme after that is simply Cross-overs, so we could go straight to that one. Or we could come up with some fresh suggestions, which might inspire us all over again. Or we could take a break for a few weeks, or we could put the Reading Room away entirely, and see if we can think of something shiny and new to take its place, just to ring the changes. Or...? Let me know what you think - other suggestions all welcome!

[Poll #1824940]

Comments

[moth2fic.livejournal.com]

That's me, voting on purely personal grounds because I love joining in and simply can't cope at the moment. Other people might be raring to go!! But I assume you want everyone's vote.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

I do indeed want everyone's vote - and it's individuals who count, because if every individual is hectically busy for the next few weeks, or fancies a break or whatever, then it's no good some amorphous mass deciding to post Reading Room posts! *g* That's why the poll, to find out the state of play - it's unusual that only one person responds to a request for stories/volunteers, so there must be something going on!

[hambelandjemima.livejournal.com]

I always intend to join in, but don't always manage it, so I don't feel that I should be allowed to vote. Just wanted you to know :)

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

I think that's actually the situation for most of us - including me - I always intend to join in, but don't always manage it, so if everyone siad they wouldn't vote on that basis, I'd have to cancel the whole thing through apparent lack of interest, whereas really it'd just be needless guilt and/or modesty! Please vote - you have absolutely as much right to do so as anyone, and quite honestly I do interpret null responses as people-don't-care-so-I-might-as-well-stop-trying-to-organise-it!

[moonlightmead.livejournal.com]

I haven't voted, because I don't mind the details. I just want to see the chance to discuss them all continue. I was tempted to say that if it disappears, I shall simply be forced to post comments regardless and wait for replies. But there has been barely a reading room go by without someone saying "oh wow, I am so late" - 48 hours after the thing is posted. Which makes me think that people won't reply to isolated comments. Until we can get past that, I am strongly in favour of the reading room continuing.

However: for the next six weeks, I can't offer to introduce anything with certainty. Although I shall certainly sneak in and comment on other people's reviews, whether I am six minutes, six hours or six days after the post.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

But there has been barely a reading room go by without someone saying "oh wow, I am so late" - 48 hours after the thing is posted. Which makes me think that people won't reply to isolated comments. Until we can get past that...
Interesting interpretation you've got there... *g* I put oh-wow-I'm-so-late comments down to politeness rather than seeing any other meaning in them, to be honest.

What we need to ask is whether people reply if someone does make a "late" comment - if they reply then presumably they're interested enough to carry on a discussion about something still. I'm pretty sure that whenever I've replied "late" to something people have always responded, sometimes with a single reply comment (usually if that's what they'd done originally too) and sometimes we've got into a discussion about things.

People other than the original post-er don't always get notifications of discussions that have been revived - but if I've tracked the post/comments in the first place, then I've been known to join in on someone else's late conversation too.

So... I don't think you need to worry about responding to older posts, just go ahead and do it! And I'd really hate to see that conflated with the possibility of new posts... There are hundreds of stories to be talked about, and whilst it's grand to go back and re-visit old discussions, surely there's room for new ones as well!

Also - as I said to Hambel above, please vote! You must have some small preference about things, and I'm afraid I take null responses as meaning people aren't actually interested enough even to hit a tick-y box... I'd offer to include another box next time, but I've found that if I include something like "don't mind" as an option, then people tend to tick that as a kind of default, and I end up having to decide something by myself anyway, with no clue about whether people will be interested in it really...

I was tempted to say that if it disappears, I shall simply be forced to post comments regardless and wait for replies.
You could always post reviews regardless, and wait for replies - that was one of the things CI5hq was originally set up for, the Reading Room didn't come until years later, and it's not exclusive of any other activity here - I'd love it if people posted reviews or recs just randomly, it'd made a much more interesting flist page!

[moonlightmead.livejournal.com]

I have strongly had the impression that some people think they are arriving "late" and thus don't really expand on interesting points, when I think they had really interesting and salient comments to make. But maybe that's just me. And I know that we both do reply to older comments. I just leave these "more people should!" remarks every so often so that people who surf on in see them and realise that there isn't a time limit, even if they are reading a year down the line. When I arrived on LJ, I got the erroneous impression that if no-one had commented for a day, then it was too late, and missed quite a few good discussions as a result.

I shall vote, yes. There are two or three of equal interest to me, though, so if there's a dead heat, discount my vote!

As for posting reviews... yeah. It's on the todo list! - single stories, themes, zines, art in zines, stuff I have bought, stuff I have borrowed... oooh. Did I tell you about my latest zine buys? *iz happy* Anyway, it was on the todo list and then life happened at me. It's still on the list!

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

I dunno - I think some people do and some people don't expand on interesting points, at either end of the posting spectrum! *g*

And yeay for zine buys - I've not had any for aaaaages, and I do rather miss the excitement... *g* I pondered the new O.Yardley story, but I'm a bit put off by the non-Bodie/non-Doyle names (always does put me off, I find and replace when the stories are online... *g*) and I've not been entirely convinced by her older lads in the past few stories, so I'm wary this time, sadly...

[msmoat.livejournal.com]

Hey there! Okay, so I never participate. *g* Or, almost never. But I always think I might... Which is of no help to you, I realize, and really rather selfish, but I also bet there are a lot of other lurkers out there who think they might participate, until time gets away from them, but they are actually enjoying the story discussions.... Yeah, I know, lurkers are the bane of fandom. But also kind of the backbone of fandom. *g*

I would hate to see the Reading Room stop. I think the idea of theme stories is a good one. I understand completely the frustration of organizing to silent reaction...although I also think the discussion here has been very robust, considering how slow all involvement seems to be right now. Personally, I'm hoping my time will start to open up a bit more, and this is one of the places I would frequent.

[moonlightmead.livejournal.com]

So I am curious. One of the possibilities for the "outed" theme was one of your stories: On Manoeuvres. What would you have done? Read quietly, or popped in to comment? In the middle, or at the end? Or offered to introduce it? :)

(If I had introduced it, I must admit, I had unanswered questions!)

[msmoat.livejournal.com]

Huh. Was it? Darn, I would have liked that! *g* (I have been very, very hit-and-miss with LJ in the last couple of months. It will get better!) As for what I would have done...you know, I've always wondered about that. I don't want to inhibit conversation, so I tend to err on the side of ignoring or reading quietly. I strongly believe people should have a place where they can discuss stories frankly, and sometimes knowing an author is reading can inhibit comments. But, on the other hand, I'd enjoy it if authors were involved, especially if I really liked the story and/or had questions. So...I dunno! What would people like?

Hey, I'd be happy to discuss any questions! *g*

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Hey, I'd be happy to discuss any questions!
In that case, greedy piece that I am (*g*) might I suggest that Moonlight Mead posts separately to ask her questions, and hope that you get a chance to answer them? As a kind of Author's Review post, sort of...? That'd be kind of fun!

(I know what you mean about not wanting to inhibit conversation - I tend to keep my head down (whilst being ever so pleased) when one of my stories in mentioned. And then I wonder, cos people know we're around, so maybe they think it's rude if we don't say something, but then that might be inhibiting, and then I just get all tangled up in my feet and fall down, which makes me quiet... *g*

So I'd be interested to hear what people prefer too! I suppose I tend to assume that if someone's active on lj and I want to be critical of what they're writing, then I'd be more comfortable doing it by asking questions rather than just commenting where I know they can see it but won't reply. And if I only have nice things to say anyway, then I assume they'll be happy... I guess it's the worry that people will feel they can't be critical that's the issue? I know I wouldn't mind (d'you remember that you and I had an interesting discussion yonks ago about my Of Werewolves and Vampires story? *g*) but I suppose other people don't know that, and it sounds as if there've been huge hissy fits in other fandoms from people who do mind, but... maybe it's a case of knowing thy author.... *g*

[msmoat.livejournal.com]

Huge hissy fits in Pros, too, once upon a time. *g* But you know, maybe we're a small enough fandom now that everyone knows everyone anyway, and we could have good discussions with readers and authors both. It would be nice--just all get together and chat about stories. Which, um, is what this is all about! *g* Frankly, if we were discussing one of your stories, I'd much rather have you chime in than have you be, um, unnaturally silent. *g*

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Lol - I suppose it would seem a bit unnatural for me, though I've actually missed a lot of discussions and things, even just here at CI5hq... I must buck up!

I can't think of many people in Pros who'd take umbrage rather than discuss something with interest, so I personally reckon you're right about that. Which is why I'm hoping Reading Room will be able to carry on too, cos it's been nice, and there's been some great discussion.

You know, it might be kind of fun to instigate an ask-the-author session now and then, perhaps I should put out some feelers... *g* (*feels you gently...* *g*)

[msmoat.livejournal.com]

Heh. I'd be happy to participate--at either end! Really, I want to get back to my online life. (Not to mention wanting to get inspired to write!) Things are, I hope, settling down a bit in my life, so I will try and participate in whatever comes next here!

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Ah, but you might participate, and presumably if it was a theme you're interested in you'd be more likely to participate, so... *g* And hah - I lurk myself sometimes, we all do when life is on top of us... But if everyone lurks then there wouldn't be anything to lurk to, so I hope people will participate occasionally... *g*

The theme stories are fun - and it's not so much organising to silent reaction, it's that I can organise all I like, but if no one's available to join in, there's nowt there... *g* Which is why I'm trying to keep an eye on whether people feel they'd like a break for a bit, or if there are enough people caught up with themselves to be able to join in if something's organised. Cos you're right, I think people do enjoy the discussions, it's been a lovely lively start to the year here, I think! And Beta Central, too, which has also gone quiet... maybe it's a March thing. * g*

I'm hoping your time will start to open up a bit more too!|

[moonlightmead.livejournal.com]

Hello and welcome - and doubly welcome because you have done exactly what I did: arrived just as people were saying "Hmm, now what?" about the reading room back in (*mumbles*) June, I think. It's still going, btw :)

mainly cos Professional Dreamer is one of my favourite stories.
Seems a good enough reason to vote to me!

Really curious about the fic you're finding which is not on the main archives. What are you counting as the main archives? For Pros-specific stuff, there is the online Circuit Archive (currently not being updated); the Hatstand (frozen to new submissions, but with a replacement); and the Automated Hatstand (replacement to the Hatstand). And a lot is arriving on Archive Of Our Own too.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Well thank you, and welcome - I hope you'll feel like being less silent in the future, we're a pretty friendly bunch really you know... *g*

I adore Professional Dreamer, even though there are many reasons I probably shouldn't - but it's one of those stories with heart, I always think!

"Fusion stories" just means Pros stories that have been fused with other existing stories (but not cross-overs with other tv shows, which imagines characters from both meeting up) to make a kind of... fusion. *g* Basically, it's Pros put into another story, I guess... *g*

Have you discovered the ProsLib CD yet? That's got alot of the old not-for-the-internet stories on it, hours and hours of dreamy reading... (mixed quality, mind, like all fanfic, but there's some great stuff on there that'll never be online due to the author's wishes). And then of course there's zine stories, and the paper circuit... lots of non-archived stuff! The main Pros archives (Circuit and Hatstand) stopped archiving a few years ago, which made me very sad - the archivists would pick up stories posted elsewhere and archive them (that's what the header was for, in Pros, when I first got here), and it was glorious... The ProsLib archivist still does that, so there's new fic being put on the CD all the time...

[firlefanzine.livejournal.com]

To be true, I need some pushing! - my kick in the ass! ;-)
That means an often repeated schedule for the next weeks, the reminder on Tuesday for the discussion on Thursday.
The former regualar basis of a reading room each week was exactly right for me. I couldn't join each week, but I knew it was there and I joined as often as possible - because I'm reading Pros anyway. :-)

I agree that it should never be too late to participate. Maybe we should remind/tell people of the possibility to track a discussion?
I always do it with interesting entries.

And how about an afterthought maybe on Sunday? Maybe with a summary and some nicely done pushing (...;-)) to join even if it seems to be too late? ;-)

You see - how about more (a regular) Reading Room instead of a rest?

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

You know, our schedule has been regular for a long time now - Reading Room is always on Thursdays (although there may be some variance depending on who's posting, because of different time zones, and there's usually a week's rest for organisation in between themes). But you can know that the Reading Room will be here on Thursdays!

As for reminders - I know Constant Muse liked to announce the fic and remind people on Tuesdays, but I don't always have the time or the same inclination to do that I'm afraid. I think we have to be grown-ups about these things too - if we know we like the Reading Room, and we know that it's there every Thursday, then hopefully we can make the effort to remind ourselves of what the next fic is going to be... There's no reason why the Reading Room reviewer couldn't post a follow-up "afterthought" a few days later though (just as anyone's welcome to post reviews and ask about stories at any time, not just as the Reading Room!).

More Reading Room is a nice idea, but I'd be a bit worried that alot of people already feel they don't have time to post a review and respond to comments in the first place - so suggesting they do more than that might actually put them off rather than encourage contributions... however it works, we need to make sure we find a nice balance for everyone!

It's a good idea to remind people about tracking posts, and useful for all kinds of interesting conversations...

[firlefanzine.livejournal.com]

"As for reminders - I know Constant Muse liked to announce the fic and remind people on Tuesdays, but I don't always have the time or the same inclination to do that I'm afraid."
Would you mind if I would do it then?
I'm not too grown-up that I wouldn't appreciate a weekly reminder. And If I have to keep track for myself, I can do it as well for the others.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

I don't see why you couldn't - on Tuesdays, as Constant Muse used to do? But no warnings/spoilers in your post unless they're under a cut!

[margaret-r.livejournal.com]

I voted for fusion stories but only because it was the first one on the list! I'm equally as interested in cross-overs so ...

Like most people I'm busy and can't always get to commenting or participating immediately on anything (plus the time difference mucks things up sometimes!), then by the time I do get there I often find that the points I might have raised have already been discussed. But then there is often still something that can be said:) As for joining in with suggestings for recs, I'm hopeless with that usually because there is so much Pros I haven't read and what I have read I can never remember the titles for! So when it comes to suggesting something I'm usually at a bit of a loss. And this is where the Reading Room is such a great place for someone like me - I get to find out about the good stories out there:)

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Well even if we do Fusion stories next, we'll do cross-over stories after that, so... *g*

by the time I do get there I often find that the points I might have raised have already been discussed
Yes, I know what you mean - that happens to me sometimes, even if I'm in the same timezone as the reviewer! And then it feels odd just to say "Yes, I think this too...", and so I don't... *g* But as you say, there's usually something people haven't said that I do want to say!

I'm a bit rubbish at remembering titles too, which is why some lists start out as much shorter than others, until people join in with what they remember! *g* What I hope is that enough other people do remember things that we'll get there in the end, otherwise - like last week - it ends up as a bit of a non-event! But we usually do get there!

[murphybabe]

Hi all,

I've voted for new suggestions because to be honest, I struggle a bit with fusion and cross-over stories. Either I don't know the other characters, in which case so what, or if I do they get in the way of my lads. However, I will still support the Reading room 'cos I thinks it's brill *g* In my case, if we go with fusion and then crossover, I will read and comment, but probably wouldn't review something for either of these. Sorry if this sounds a bit selfish.

Incidentally, although I do tag entries, I don't seem to be getting notifications recently... since the last upgrade to LJ, perhaps? I need to investigate.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

I've got to admit that I don't read cross-overs if I don't know (or like) the other series/characters, and I don't like the ones that have to get rid of one of our lads to fit the other series in - that's not why I read Pros! *g* I don't have that problem with fusion stories though, because the author is actually telling the story, so you don't have to be familiar with the original in order to follow it. And of course it should be our lads taking the main parts, so that's not a problem either... Sometimes I don't even know I'm reading a fusion story until the end, and for instance I have no idea about the story Professional Story is based on - but I love Professional Dreamer... *g*

When you say "tag" entries - you mean track, right...? *g* Hmmn about losing notifications though... have people definitely still been commenting to those posts (ie, there's definitely been something to track)? Are you getting your other notifications okay?

[heliophile-oxon.livejournal.com]

just voting and commenting to de-lurk and prove I'm here reading, really - not as on top of things as I'd like to be at the mo' , but reading avidly whenever I get the chance!

actually I'm really sorry that the "outing" theme may not come out - I do think it's an interesting and always-relevant issue, so maybe we might come back to it in the coming weeks/months/sometime when it feels right to bring it up again.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Perhaps we can go back to the "outing" theme, no reason why not. Or maybe we could have a separate day for it, just have a discussion about "outing fic" some time, not as part of Reading Room...

Yeay for being here really! *g*

[anna060957.livejournal.com]

So I’m a lurker, a reader only (although I did attend a literary event today ...) AND late in posting a comment!

I also agree with a lot of what has already been said. Don’t know what fusion is, so can’t vote for that. (Although if I had time, I’d go to the link and find out.) If I’m not familiar with the crossover, I don’t enjoy it and rarely read them. I did read one which was a crossover with The Chief and found it very disturbing.

I would like to offer my services as a rec-er, but I need to be able to download the story to be reviewed to my kindle and currently can only do that via the Archive of Our Own – yes, I haven’t had time to sort out Calibre (still!). Where does the time go anyway?

The Reading Room is a brilliant source of stories and I would be sorry to see it end. I’m always amazed at the time spent by some dedicated fans which results in (lazy) people like me being entertained in the best possible way. Thank you!

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry, I thought I'd explained what a fusion story was in the post:
"Fusion Stories" - not crossovers, but stories based on other stories, such as Professional Dreamer by Pam Rose, or The Ghost and Mr Doyle in Unprofessional Conduct 5... also includes stories inspired by songs

A fusion story is a story that is based on another story. So for example Bodie and Doyle as Romeo and Juliet, or in Brave New World or The Day of the Triffids. Our characters are put in the situation that starts another book or film or song - they probably won't follow the same story, because if theyr'e kept in character they might do things differently, but the basic events of the fusion story follow the events of the original story.

The Ghost and Mr Doyle, for example, is based on a film/tv series where a widow with a young son moves into an old house by the sea, that had once been owned by a sea captain, whose ghost still haunted the place. The story is about how Mrs Muir and the ghost come to terms with each other, and then fall in love, even though of course that cannot be. The Pros version has Doyle moving to a house by the sea to recover from illness, the house of course being haunted by an old sea captain named Bodie, and the story is about how Doyle and Bodie come to terms with each other, and then fall in love...

Whereas a cross-over story puts Bodie and Doyle into another tv show or story as separate characters, and somehow matches them in with the characters already there, a fusion story puts them in the place of the original characters.

I'm not keen on most cross-overs to be honest, because they often involve one of our lads either being dead, or else shoved somehow off to the side so that the cross-over character, like the Chief, can be brought in... But there are stories that aren't like that, and once I've got around to familiarising myself with the other show, I can enjoy them. Mind you, if it's a cross-over with a programme I don't like, then I can't read it anyway - there's an Eastenders cross-over out there somewhere, yurch! *g*

You could always rec something from AO3, I know the Pros newsletter's always pointing out how many new stories are up there...

I'd be sorry to see the Reading Room end too, but it can only go on as long as there are people willing to actively join in as well as lurk... *g*

[franciskerst.livejournal.com]

What's a fusion story?

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry, I thought I'd explained up above:
"Fusion Stories" - not crossovers, but stories based on other stories, such as Professional Dreamer by Pam Rose, or The Ghost and Mr Doyle in Unprofessional Conduct 5... also includes stories inspired by songs

A fusion story is a story that is based on another story. So for example Bodie and Doyle as Romeo and Juliet, or in Brave New World or The Day of the Triffids. Our characters are put in the situation that starts another book or film or song - they probably won't follow the same story, because if theyr'e kept in character they might do things differently, but the basic events of the fusion story follow the events of the original story.

The Ghost and Mr Doyle, for example, is based on a film/tv series where a widow with a young son moves into an old house by the sea, that had once been owned by a sea captain, whose ghost still haunted the place. The story is about how Mrs Muir and the ghost come to terms with each other, and then fall in love, even though of course that cannot be. The Pros version has Doyle moving to a house by the sea to recover from illness, the house of course being haunted by an old sea captain named Bodie, and the story is about how Doyle and Bodie come to terms with each other, and then fall in love...

Whereas a cross-over story puts Bodie and Doyle into another tv show or story as separate characters, and somehow matches them in with the characters already there, a fusion story puts them in the place of the original characters.

[franciskerst.livejournal.com]

Ah! Sorry, I was in a hurry and didn't take the time to read the comments and replies before mine. And soon thereafter I remembered what a fusion story is! I like the idea. I'll take part in the discussion, sure.

[anna060957.livejournal.com]

..... and actually The Schoolmaster is Jane Eyre ... which I remembered this morning at 3.00am! I need more sleep!

[anna060957.livejournal.com]

Yes, I’m sure you did and I should have clicked on the link ... which now that I have, has explained all. Thank you for taking the time to do so - and so quickly! OK, I’m currently reading The Schoolmaster, which is a fusion with Jane Austen’s Pride and Prejudice (which I knew before I started reading it, but didn’t know the terminology). In fact I think it might have been as a result of a comment/post in the “written in the style of ...” challenge. But as usual, I’ve forgotten the antecedents of my journey to this story – and it’s been on my Kindle for a while.

I’ve also read “Professional Dreamer”, but don’t know the original so did not make the connection.

Once again, thanks for your quick and comprehensive response and thank you for all your input to CI5HQ!
A

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Hiya - you don't have a link to The Schoolmaster do you, so I can add it to the list of fusion stories? Thank you! *g*