Reports from Beta Central
Jan. 10th, 2012 02:13 pm![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
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ci5hqYeay for lots of interest in the idea of a constructive criticism feature - and thanks for all the thoughts and suggestions. I think it could be a fairly complicated feature if we let it be, but I'd like to try and keep it simple (and therefore more encouraging for people to join in). If it gets more complex after a while, then that's fine too, but I think it's probably a good idea to try and start as easily as possible...
I thought that rather than set specific deadlines for an entire beta/critique, we could take it in stages at first, and see how it goes. I wouldn't expect everything to be over in a week, and I wasn't planning to apply any kind of "closing" to an author's piece of work, but at the same time I think we need to keep some momentum going too - not just for readers, but particularly for authors. Of course we all work at different speeds, so what one person might get done in a day, someone else might take a month or two to complete, and there's no reason that the one should affect the other, I hope! Mostly I think it's going to depend on both author and reader enthusiasm - as long as there are stories submitted, and readers interested in constructively critiquing, then posts and the feature in general should be able to just carry on... *g*
Although I don't want to get ahead of ourselves by posting stories in advance, it might be an idea to have a list of authors who have a piece of work they'd like to post for constructive critique, to help gauge how busy things might be, and when we need to ask for more stories. As part of keeping things simple (and trying to keep it as an interesting exercise for readers, rather than how much work is this, cos I don't have that much time...) I reckon each post should feature a single piece of work, in a single draft - authors can choose which draft they submit, but only one at a time, please! If you'd like to submit a later draft, then we'll put you back in the queue for that.
On a set day of the week (perhaps starting weekly to cash in on author enthusiasm, but becoming fortnightly/monthly/when-a-story-comes-up as we go on a little bit?), the scheduled author will post their fic under a cut and with a trailer warning (please warn me if that fic is going to be very long, too long for lj, perhaps, and we can perhaps give an extra week or so for it) and include a blurb about it if they want to. This is where authors can perhaps describe what they were hoping the fic would be or achieve, or the impact it would have, and ask about any particular worries or concerns. What the author asks should not limit what readers can comment on - often authors may be worrying so much about one aspect that they don't realise it's actually a completely different aspect of a story that's throwing readers off, and there needs to be scope to talk about this.
Critiquing is a tricky business, as many people pointed out in reply to my last post. The whole idea of it is to help authors write the best stories they can - but what constitutes "the best story they can" is always going to a) be subjective, and b) be focussed on authors as individuals, and not about comparing their submitted story to the bestest-ever-Prosfic (unless they ask you to *g*). The first assumption in these posts is that authors posting their stories have opened themselves to critique, and should assume that people are trying to be helpful and that it's not about them personally. The second assumption is that the critique offered will be offered in a spirit of care - that readers will remember that stories are often very closely attached to the author, and that critique can feel hurtful even when it's intended to be helpful. I don't think I really need to say any of this out loud, especially considering the comments to my original post, but I hope that everyone will post and comment with thought and only because they're trying to learn and/or help!
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kiwisue linked to an essay about critiquing stories, which is on the long side, and I don't agree with all of it, but makes many good points about the process - from both a writer's and a reader's point of view. It's here if anyone would like to read it. I particularly liked the point that we're all coming at this from different places and different levels of experience - an academic editor is not necessarily any more helpful to an author than a car mechanic who enjoys reading slash, and they're also just as likely to accidentally hurt an author via their critique, by being either "too professional" or too enthusiastic. So let's be careful out there... *g*
I'm sure there'll be more bits and bobs of organisation to mention in a next post, but for now there are three final questions that I'd like input on, please!
1. Authors, do you have a piece of work you'd like critiqued? Please let me know below with your name and the working title of your piece! (If you have more than one piece, that's fine but we'll do them separately, which is why I'm asking for the title/s!) Importantly - I suspect that the first story might attract more attention than later ones and will also be going up before we've all had experience of how things work, and what not/to say in what way, and so it might feel a little harsher than subsequent critiques. If you're willing to volunteer your story to be first, then please say so in your comment! If you'd all rather watch a trial first, I've got a piece I planned never to post that we could use, and after several batterings my skin may be a wee bit thicker, so I can always post that for the first one!
2. Everyone - Is there a preferred day for posting the stories, assuming perhaps a week's worth of critique for each one? Would a Friday be better than a Monday, for instance, or should we go for the ever-dull Tuesday, or eternal Wednesday? What d'you think?
3. What do you think of the proposed name for our feature - Reports from Beta Central? *g* Alternative suggestions welcomed, votes are also fun! *g*
And as always, comments about anything I've forgotten/other aspects are welcomed too... *g*
Volunteer Authors
Merentha
Kiwisue
GoldenBastet
MoonlightMead
I thought that rather than set specific deadlines for an entire beta/critique, we could take it in stages at first, and see how it goes. I wouldn't expect everything to be over in a week, and I wasn't planning to apply any kind of "closing" to an author's piece of work, but at the same time I think we need to keep some momentum going too - not just for readers, but particularly for authors. Of course we all work at different speeds, so what one person might get done in a day, someone else might take a month or two to complete, and there's no reason that the one should affect the other, I hope! Mostly I think it's going to depend on both author and reader enthusiasm - as long as there are stories submitted, and readers interested in constructively critiquing, then posts and the feature in general should be able to just carry on... *g*
Although I don't want to get ahead of ourselves by posting stories in advance, it might be an idea to have a list of authors who have a piece of work they'd like to post for constructive critique, to help gauge how busy things might be, and when we need to ask for more stories. As part of keeping things simple (and trying to keep it as an interesting exercise for readers, rather than how much work is this, cos I don't have that much time...) I reckon each post should feature a single piece of work, in a single draft - authors can choose which draft they submit, but only one at a time, please! If you'd like to submit a later draft, then we'll put you back in the queue for that.
On a set day of the week (perhaps starting weekly to cash in on author enthusiasm, but becoming fortnightly/monthly/when-a-story-comes-up as we go on a little bit?), the scheduled author will post their fic under a cut and with a trailer warning (please warn me if that fic is going to be very long, too long for lj, perhaps, and we can perhaps give an extra week or so for it) and include a blurb about it if they want to. This is where authors can perhaps describe what they were hoping the fic would be or achieve, or the impact it would have, and ask about any particular worries or concerns. What the author asks should not limit what readers can comment on - often authors may be worrying so much about one aspect that they don't realise it's actually a completely different aspect of a story that's throwing readers off, and there needs to be scope to talk about this.
Critiquing is a tricky business, as many people pointed out in reply to my last post. The whole idea of it is to help authors write the best stories they can - but what constitutes "the best story they can" is always going to a) be subjective, and b) be focussed on authors as individuals, and not about comparing their submitted story to the bestest-ever-Prosfic (unless they ask you to *g*). The first assumption in these posts is that authors posting their stories have opened themselves to critique, and should assume that people are trying to be helpful and that it's not about them personally. The second assumption is that the critique offered will be offered in a spirit of care - that readers will remember that stories are often very closely attached to the author, and that critique can feel hurtful even when it's intended to be helpful. I don't think I really need to say any of this out loud, especially considering the comments to my original post, but I hope that everyone will post and comment with thought and only because they're trying to learn and/or help!
kiwisue linked to an essay about critiquing stories, which is on the long side, and I don't agree with all of it, but makes many good points about the process - from both a writer's and a reader's point of view. It's here if anyone would like to read it. I particularly liked the point that we're all coming at this from different places and different levels of experience - an academic editor is not necessarily any more helpful to an author than a car mechanic who enjoys reading slash, and they're also just as likely to accidentally hurt an author via their critique, by being either "too professional" or too enthusiastic. So let's be careful out there... *g*I'm sure there'll be more bits and bobs of organisation to mention in a next post, but for now there are three final questions that I'd like input on, please!
1. Authors, do you have a piece of work you'd like critiqued? Please let me know below with your name and the working title of your piece! (If you have more than one piece, that's fine but we'll do them separately, which is why I'm asking for the title/s!) Importantly - I suspect that the first story might attract more attention than later ones and will also be going up before we've all had experience of how things work, and what not/to say in what way, and so it might feel a little harsher than subsequent critiques. If you're willing to volunteer your story to be first, then please say so in your comment! If you'd all rather watch a trial first, I've got a piece I planned never to post that we could use, and after several batterings my skin may be a wee bit thicker, so I can always post that for the first one!
2. Everyone - Is there a preferred day for posting the stories, assuming perhaps a week's worth of critique for each one? Would a Friday be better than a Monday, for instance, or should we go for the ever-dull Tuesday, or eternal Wednesday? What d'you think?
3. What do you think of the proposed name for our feature - Reports from Beta Central? *g* Alternative suggestions welcomed, votes are also fun! *g*
And as always, comments about anything I've forgotten/other aspects are welcomed too... *g*
Volunteer Authors
Merentha
Kiwisue
GoldenBastet
MoonlightMead
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no subject
Date: 2012-01-10 04:52 pm (UTC)1. Ready right now? Only stuff that's already been posted, but I am entirely happy to tinker with posted stuff futher. If no-one wants to go first, then I'll offer the latest version of Raid (of which there are already two fairly different versions posted in different places, both c 5,000 words, so yet another newer version is fine by me). But if I can be further down the queue (which I'd prefer for reasons of RL timing), then I have something else entirely in mind.
2. No preference on days. I have yet to find rhyme or reason to the busy/quiet cycles on LJ.
3. I like the name.
4. You know the threads where people offered their beta skills? One in June (http://ci5hq.livejournal.com/169282.html) and an older one (http://ci5hq.livejournal.com/33990.html). Is it worth an intro post for people to say something similar - perhaps a few words about what they look for in fic and what they particularly notice (good or bad)?
no subject
Date: 2012-01-15 08:07 am (UTC)2. There is no rhyme nor reason to busy/quiet cycles on lj - a few of us have tried to work it out before, but... no. *g*
4. It would probably be good to have an Introduction-to-Betaing post, and talk about what it's good to look out for, and the different focuses that people have...
no subject
Date: 2012-01-10 05:25 pm (UTC)3. Sounds like a scifi novel! GREAT!
no subject
Date: 2012-01-15 08:08 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-01-10 06:11 pm (UTC)No preference for days. I share Moonlightmead's bemusement at LJ cycles.
Title sounds good! But any 'distinctive' title would be fine by me if you change your mind!
no subject
Date: 2012-01-15 08:09 am (UTC)And good for "having something soon" - let me know when you do!
no subject
Date: 2012-01-10 07:16 pm (UTC)Reader only, however, so nothing to post.
Timing - I always have time for Pros!
Title - fine.
no subject
Date: 2012-01-15 08:09 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-01-10 09:37 pm (UTC)2. what others have said *g* - during the week probably
3. Sounds cool :)
no subject
Date: 2012-01-15 08:11 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-01-15 12:27 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-01-15 12:32 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-01-15 02:19 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-01-15 02:33 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-01-10 10:09 pm (UTC)2) no
3) love it
4) dunno.
It all sounds great and I am looking forward to it. I like the idea of saying what we're good at when reading. I would also still like to be able to ask for feedback on something I'm doubtful about. For example, I have discovered that I tend to put three clauses all separated by commas in many of my fics. I have no idea why, or where this came from, but it would be good to know if it is irritating or the rhythm is wrong - or whatever. No need to tell me now!
It also might be good fun to try something in a completely different style occasionally. Or - oh, lots of stuff but I'm going to shut up now and go to bed with my Kindle and the lads.
no subject
Date: 2012-01-15 08:26 am (UTC)And of course you'll be able to ask for feedback on something - we were just saying that feedback shouldn't be restricted to only what the author asks for!
I suspect asking about your clauses and commas will bring up two very different opinnions - I shall be very good and wait for the discussion to give my opinion! *g*
I like your idea of trying something in a different style now and then, and seeing how it works... in fact you've just given me an idea for our next Dialj challenge... *g*
no subject
Date: 2012-01-11 01:11 am (UTC)2)Monday or Tuesday sounds good.
3) I like the name!
I'm looking forward to this! Thanks for organizing things.
no subject
Date: 2012-01-15 08:01 am (UTC)Monday sounds like a popular day to start, so I thought we might go with that - and is it too short notice for you to go first tomorrow? You'd just need a very short blurb above the cut, saying why you'd like it looked at ("I'm interested in anything you can tell me" or "I'm particularly interested in whether it works from a plot perspective", or "Help me with my grammar!" or whatever) and then your story under the cut, with the CI5hq trailer (on the user info page) at the end.
If you'd rather wait until next Monday (23rd) just let me know - I can post something else tomorrow instead.
And thanks for volunteering, and especially to go first!
no subject
Date: 2012-01-15 02:00 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-01-15 02:19 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-01-11 03:08 am (UTC)2. I'm open to any day. I guess Monday seems to make the most sense, somehow.
3.Name is fine, too. :D
no subject
Date: 2012-01-15 08:28 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-01-11 08:54 am (UTC)2. Not bothered about any particular posting day.
3. The name sounds good - and appropriate:)
Looking forward to seeing this kick off:D
no subject
Date: 2012-01-15 08:29 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-01-15 12:18 am (UTC)1) Not at the moment
2) No preference
3) I like the name. Please keep it :)
no subject
Date: 2012-01-15 08:29 am (UTC)