An Advent Calendar of Stories - 24th December 2011

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

And the final story in our Advent Calendar of gorgeous Pros-y stories, is the one that I can't resist at this time of year, and that I will curl up in bed with tonight:

In the Deep Midwinter (The Larton Chronicles) by Rhiannon

Because how can you not love these lads, AU or not...

On the morning of Christmas Day Doyle looked at the bright green eggs ready and waiting for him unappreciatively. The colour was startling. No doubt Bodie meant them to be festive. It was best not to inquire. Himself was whistling happily at the stove, constructing a huge fry-up.
"Eggs all right?" Bodie inquired.
"Um," said Doyle. "Nice and hard, the way I like 'em. Shove over the paprika. Heard you coming home - about three, was it? You fell over the step."
"So I did," Bodie admitted. "We had a few jars after Mass. Good thing I wasn't stopped on the way home."

I can see both a Bodie who'd think bright green eggs were festive, and especially a Bodie who has a few jars after Mass... and a Doyle who decides it's best not to enquire about either thing... *g* And then...

"Bodie! Get a move on!" Doyle yelled. "I don't want to be revving up the car and you still in the bathroom."
"Bad news," said Bodie. He appeared in the doorway wearing his lowering Heathcliff expression. "Won't be getting that time off. They need me for this damned house party Agnes is throwing."
"Oh no," said Doyle. "We are going to spend Boxing Day happily watching Where Eagles Dare on TV so you can be rude about it, me not stirring from the Aga and you with your wellies off for once, not careering halfway over Gloucestershire in peril of life and limb."
"I know," said Bodie. "I was looking forward to it. But Glenbucket's gone and broken his leg. They have him in traction."
"Not a horse, is he?" asked Doyle, concerned.

Bodie's lowering Heathcliff expression! The lads watching Where Eagles Dare so that Bodie can be rude about it! And them both tucked up to the Aga and each other... If they were going to be posh, I reckong this is just how they'd be - having Christmas together, no matter what.

If you've not yet read Larton, then do hie thee to Gryphon Press, who are highly recommended by anyone who's bought Pros zines there, and search out this absolute classic Pros zine. It's perfect for curling up with, at least once a year, at Christmastime... *g*



And even though this is the end of our Advent Calendar, if anyone has any more Pros-y Christmas stories they'd like to rec, or Pros-y stories that they'd like to rec or review or chat about any time at all, then that's one of the things that ci5hq was set up to do - so please do! And have a lovely Christmas, whether you believe in it or not, and every day after... *g*

Comments

[kiwisue.livejournal.com]

Oh, all right. I think I've been converted. I do like Larton after all *g*.

One thing that's always puzzled me about this section in particular, and someone who is much more familiar with the stories than I am might know the answer - is Bodie meant to be R. Catholic in Larton, hence the use of 'Mass' for the Christmas Eve service? Doesn't seem to go with the wellies and hounds and the Irish hunters(!). Or does it just mean he's from a High Church Anglican background?

I know he's got a good chance of being from a Catholic family in the series, being "Liverpool Irish" and all, but the character background seems wrong in this one. Even in canon he doesn't have to be Catholic - his favourite club, Liverpool FC, was founded by an Orangeman, Everton was known as the Catholic one (at least thus spake Wikipedia).

On another ranttopic, what is it with all the stories giving Doyle a Catholic background? Don't people know their UK demographics and how relatively unlikely that would have been? Or that an Irish surname doesn't mean you're Irish or your parents were, or your grandparents??? I think there's a good case for Doyle's parents being Methodist myself.(2)(3)

(1) Not that it couldn't go, I am against rigid stereotyping as a general principle. But this is a peculiarity that deserves an explanation.
(2) Not meant to knock anyone who makes him Catholic for Apparitions crossover purposes, of course. Needs must! *g*
(3) And I really, truly have nothing against people who are Catholics. It's just that it's such a fandom meme - if Doyle has a religion it must be Catholic. With a side order of Celtic mysticism to counteract the bad taste of Popery. Huh?

Err... Christmas dinner beckons - I'm off!

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Good morning! *g*

Oddly enough, someone the other night said "Does anyone fancy going to midnight mass?" and my first question to her was "Oh, are you Catholic?", cos that's what "mass" means to me! And she said "Oh no, we've just always called it that..." - they're not High Church or anything either, just ordinary...

In Larton Bodie is a Catholic, cos he's actually half-Irish, and I assume it must be an authorial thing, that Rhiannon herself might be half-Irish and from that kind of background - or at least familiar with it - and that's why she pulled him that way... But then, to me, I can absolutely see his being RC as part of wellies and horses and hunters, though perhaps not a particularly well-known part of the culture?

In other fic I agree with you though - I do find it weird that some stories go on about their Irish background, when the only reference to anything like that is Doyle's "half-Irish son of a bitch" in Klansmen (and I'm not at all convinced he meant it literally either, he could well have meant it as an insult back then - half-Irish meaning doing-something-stupid...)

But hah - no, I don't think alot of writers do bother about UK demographics, and that an Irish surname doesn't mean you're Irish! People in various countries relate to surnames and ancestors differently too - in America, for instance, lots of people describe themselves as "I'm Irish" or "I'm Scottish" when their family left those places generations ago. And we have lots of American writers in Pros, so I tend to assume that they're thinking that way...

I reckon Doyle's parents wouldn't really have been anything, especially if he had the slightly erratic background which I think's implied by his dodging Bodie's "I thought you were from Derby" (yeah... well... we lived here for a bit..." rather than anything more solid - though yeah, that's just my interpretation! *g*) And I'm not mad-convinced Bodie's would have been either, though as you say, if he was from Liverpool it makes it a bit more likely...

But for me, Larton is a very stretchy AU - why does Bodie love horses, for instance? I can stretch that to the way he seems to love driving, and perhaps his knowledge and obsession with guns (he's as technical and knowledgable about the horses, and loves playing with them!) And how has Doyle become a writer, when he's so active in Pros, and (for me) one of his characteristics is movement... But I can see where Rhiannon's extrapolating from his thinky-ness too, so I can stretch that far. And I love the absoluely canon glimpses we get of them, which draw it all together, for me...

But - yeay for your liking Larton after all! *g*

[kiwisue.livejournal.com]

I need to get a full copy - don't have the last part.

In Larton Bodie is a Catholic, cos he's actually half-Irish

Ah but I didn't assume that the one means the other. For example on the Irish side he could be from one of the old, somewhat privileged "Anglo-Irish" families, who were mostly Protestant & who may have been gentry or related to such in England as well. They didn't all pack up & leave after 1922, though - tradition of service, that sort of thing - and stables and horses and big Irish hunters *g*. But I'd have to re-read with an eye for that sort of detail. ETA: found the reference and you're right - it's in the first one, when Doyle's laid up after the hunt and...

"You're not trotting along with them, Bodie, taking your place in the family pew and all that?" asked Doyle.
"No, I went to the seven o'clock at St. Joe's over at Heathdene. Now are you ready for some breakfast?"
"One of those, are you?" said Doyle.
"Yes, I am."

So yes, that's pretty clear :)

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Very belated reply - heee that you put your finger on it totally, Bodie is Anglo-Irish of course, but he's also Catholic, and both threads run throughout the books! *g*

[moonlightmead.livejournal.com]

Very belatedly, as I glance through replies about Irish and Catholic things again -

"he could well have meant it as an insult back then - half-Irish meaning doing-something-stupid" - I didn't hear it often, but I certainly did hear "that's Irish," to mean "that's stupid" at school in Pros era. I remember it well because the person I first heard it from was very proud of the Irish connections in their family, and I think it took them a while to realise what it actually meant!

Incidentally, I have found a zine in which Betty is Irish. Scotch Doubles: review over here (http://ci5hq.livejournal.com/192617.html).

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I definitely heard it in various context quite a lot back then - and of course you still hear Irish jokes around along the same theme...

And *headdesk headdesk* for even Betty being Irish now! You know, there's a reference for that sort of thing in Larton too, come to think of it - Doyle's talking to... Colonel Heaton, I think? Bodie's uncle - about Bodie's decision to leave Ireland properly and make his home in England: "Romantic Ireland's dead and gone, It's with O'Leary in the grave," said Doyle. "I'm afraid Bodie still sees it that way."
"It never was, you know," said the Professor.
...but I think alot of fanfic writers still see it that way... *g*

[moonlightmead.livejournal.com]

"Don't people know their UK demographics and how relatively unlikely that would have been?" - I take it that this is a rhetorical question. :)

Celtic mysticism - ah yes, Doyle's Irish grandmother (what, you mean this is not in canon?) fits in here, and I presume this is responsible for Doyle-the-Wiccan too.

Anyway. Larton. Yes. I do like it very much - although as the cast expands in the later ones, I get hopelessly bogged down in who is who. I now understand why there is a glossary at the end - and I love the extra things it includes. But the things I like about it are the least Pros-y elements of it. I like the staccato speech patterns, the riotous hunt antics (somewhat out of my compass, but I know enough young farmers events attenders to suspect they are all too true) and the deadpan reactions - Doyle's response in the quoted passage is a classic example - and the interaction of Doyle and Bodie with the publishing world. I really liked the terse references. Again, the "One of those, are you?" quote is a good example. And all the sex is concealed behind that kind of "You're not coming near me tonight" "Ow. I ache" sequence, and you have to think "Hang on, the sun has gone down and risen again between these two lines".

I did feel when reading it initially that I lacked a lot of background. Specifically, I am not a fan of fiction set in huntin', shootin' and fishin' circles, and I wondered whether it was a respectful homage to such things (no, honestly) or a fairly wicked satire. I like to think the latter, but I'd be interested to know whether it's true. Also, the whole British/Irish/Anglo-Irish thing is something I know not enough about.

But argh, Christmas must have got to me, because yes, this zine is now stacked next to my bed, and was even before this recommendation.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Hee for Christmas getting to you - Larton is a gorgeous read for this time of year, and I still am...

Also hee for having just quoted in a comment above, something relevant to your comment here too, the whole "Romantic Ireland's dead and gone, It's with O'Leary in the grave," bit. I suspect, though I'd have to do research properly, that alot of the Irish-lads/Wiccan-lads/Celtic-mysticism lads comes from American authors still romancing the country and applying it to our lads. I think I wrote somewhere else in this thread that I'd been struck when in the US that people tended to identify much more with their ancestors/lands of their ancestors than we do over here, and I'm guessing that's part of it too - they don't realise that people here cling less hard to history in many ways, perhaps because we're comfortably surrounded by it all the time, and (perhaps mistakenly) confident of it and our place in it...

I definitely reckon Larton is a gentle send-up of the whole Counties brigade, but I love that it lacks aggression about it all. It would be so easy to write a biting satire, but I think that would be far less re-readable, and actually not get the points across in such a memorable way... That said, the British/Irish/Anglo-Irish thing is something I'd like to know more about too...

[kiwisue.livejournal.com]

"Romantic Ireland's dead and gone, It's with O'Leary in the grave,"

Yeats of course - a Protestant Anglo-Irishman *g*

I suspect, though I'd have to do research properly, that alot of the Irish-lads/Wiccan-lads/Celtic-mysticism lads comes from American authors still romancing the country and applying it to our lads.

Which is interesting, because there are loads of Australians with Irish ancestry, but I don't think it's made a great deal of here, except for St Patrick's day & then everyone's a little bit Irish - more likely if you're from Scottish forbears is my impression, but that may be my heritage showing through. But was Jane of Australia actually Australian (South Australian IIRC)? I think she was, but married an American. Anyway she's the one from these parts who has that whole thing going (The Dreaming Stone, etc).

I think there are also likely to be connecting type things that work through authors' affinity with New Age movements, Science Fiction/fantasy, SCA... connotating Bodie & Doyle's "action man" status with some sort of pure warrior culture (good) as opposed to repression & civil control (evil, or at least a dubious thing to be cheering on!).

[moth2fic.livejournal.com]

A nice 'ending' to a lovely season of recs! My copy of Larton is in Portugal (see, if it was online I could cart it about with me) so I can't re-read it for at least six months, but you've made me want to!

What a beautifully Pros-y Christmas we're having, with this as well as the dialj offerings!

Happy Christmas!

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

I know, it'd be lovely if Larton was online, but it's one that apparently never will be, by the author's request...

And yeay, yeay for Pros-y Christmas! *g*

[golden-bastet.livejournal.com]

Sorry, but I'm confused a bit. What's the timeframe? And is Bodie a vet?
:American, and feeling like she's missing the plot in an embarrassing way:

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Lol - there's a few hours between what's going on above, and Bodie's not a vet but he does work with horses, and the above really is only a snatch of the story (which is hundreds of pages long) that I thought were cute lads-y bits (Bodie with his eggs and Heathcliffe glower, Doyle rolling his eyes at it and worrying more about a horse than about someone who'd done something stupid... *g*)

But no, I don't think it's cos you're American that you're missing the plot, it's that I didn't actually explain or give any plot in the quotes! It's an AU story - and it's been recced and discussed before here at ci5hq, and it's very worth reading if you're into AUs. People seem to either love it or hate it though, perhaps because I think Rhiannon is very subtle in some of her nuances, and they are quite cultural (the whole Anglo-Irish thing, for instance - Bodie's Anglo-Irish, which isn't the same as being "half Irish" in the social circles he's been given...)

I love it, though, and highly recommend it! *g*

[margaret-r.livejournal.com]

I did enjoy the Larton Chronicles but like Kiwisue have a lot of reservations about some aspects of them! It's a nice way to end the Advent Calendar though and I'd like to thank everyone for their great recs - which I am currently trying to catch up on:) I would have liked to participate more but I've been away for the last few weeks and mostly offline. Hoping things are back to normal from now on though!

Happy Christmas to everyone.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Larton's definitely a stretch in particularly directions for our lads, but I'm happy to stretch them, and actually the more often I re-read it, the more subtle nuances and harking-back-to-the-eps I see, connecting them with canon in ways that I didn't necessarily see at all the first time I read it - or even the second or third! *g*

But yeay for being back online - and do feel free to rec Pros-y stories any time at all on this comm! *g*

[nypagan.livejournal.com]

After reading all the recs/critiques/accolades and complaints about Larton Chronicles, I'm still on the fence. I have not read it, although it does sound like something I would probably enjoy. I doubt that I will put out the $$ to buy a copy.

As far as the religious background, we really don't know based on canon. As far as fanon goes, since we make our own interpretations, anything goes right? Especially since this story is AU.

Sounds interesting. Maybe someday I will be able to read it.

[hutchynstarsk.livejournal.com]

I agree it would be nice to give it a try but doubt I'll spend the $$ or £s to find out. I think of Bodie as from an Irish Catholic background altough he is not religious in the show at all.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

That's a shame, though I know zines are terribly expensive - even the fairly priced ones, such as those from Gryphon Press (which Larton is). There are some fabulous stories in zines that'll never be online, by author preference...

Why do you think of Bodie as having an Irish Catholic, out of interest?

[hutchynstarsk.livejournal.com]

I wish all stories were online but I realise that's not a fair wish. :) If you think about it since an author doesn't get paid and shares for our reading pleasure and all of that, she deserves her wishes to be respected even MORE than a regular author (and I definitely think we should respect pro author wishes). So, er, pro and Pros wishes then. Clear? :D

Bodie as Catholic, hm. Perhaps because he's Irish. Perhaps some hint in an episode which I've since forgotten? Or perhaps I just read and liked it in a story. :)

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Bodie as Catholic, hm. Perhaps because he's Irish.
But... he's not Irish! This is the sort of thing that fascinates me, so I hope you don't mind if we carry on chatting about it. Why do you think that Bodie is Irish?

[hutchynstarsk.livejournal.com]

Well he's from Liverpool...WAIT. He's HALF-Irish isn't he?? Augh! So perhaps he's more British in regards to religion (if indeed he was raised in one).

Hm.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Well he's from Liverpool...
But being from a particular city doesn't make you one religion or another! Actually half my family's from Liverpool (well, half my mum's family), but none of us are Catholic... Liverpool was certainly an area with lots of Irish immigration, but there was also alot of Scots immigration for instance, and even more native English living there.

He's HALF-Irish isn't he??
That depends how Doyle meant it when he said it (in Klansmen). He might have meant that one of Bodie's parents was Irish, but I don't actually think so - that's not something you'd bother saying to someone over here as a "straight" comment because in itself it doesn't have any particular meaning or implications. Except that people did use the term with another meaning, a more cultural one - it wasn't a specific ancestral reference, it was more of an affectionate insult, suggesting that someone had done something stupid, something "Irish". That fits the context too, Bodie'd been stabbed - he'd done something stupid (No, it's not a particularly nice thing to say, but it was of its time I'm afraid.)

The thing is that even if Doyle had been referring to Bodie's parentage (which he wouldn't do without the cultural implication above, but anyway...) the fact that Bodie might have been "half-Irish" doesn't actually tell us anything about him. He's clearly got an English rather than Irish accent, and it's not even particularly strongly Liverpuddlian which suggests that his ties to Liverpool (and therefore family) aren't particularly strong. He never refers to anything Irish in the eps. And while the name "Bodie" can be traced back to Ireland, that wouldn't have any bearing on the culture he identified with himself. People here in the UK tend to identify more with where they themselves were brought up rather than with any ancestral past, even of their own parents.

So perhaps he's more British in regards to religion
You mean "English", I think - there are different countries in Britain, and the religious split between them isn't as simple as "Catholic" and "everyone else".

(if indeed he was raised in one)
From what he says in Mixed Doubles I'd assume that he's an aethiest, never mind anything else... and that's our only real canon reference to Bodie and religion - well, to either of them. Doyle's questioning it, being philosophical as he often is, and Bodie's saying a categorical "No, how can you even question it when the police are supposed to want proof?"...

[hutchynstarsk.livejournal.com]

Ah, thank you! I think I just learned a lot. :D

Or should that be "learnt??"

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

I think loving Larton depends partly on how much you like AUs, because it very much is one, and perhaps on the way we each interpret the lads ourselves. I love all the hints in the eps about themselves deep down, rather than just as heroic-type CI5 agents, and Larton expands on all those hints, in my not-so-humble opinion... *g*

It's true that we don't know about the lads religious background based on canon, but we can make some educated assumptions from what we do see. We don't hear them talk about it more than once, when Bodie denies it completely, and is surprised to hear Doyle raising the issue at all, which suggests that the Doyle he knows never has mentioned being religious, let alone done anything remotely religious... And although Doyle and Bodie as names can be traced back to Ireland, there are millions of people with names that may have originated in Ireland who've been English for centuries and generations, and never think of themselves as related to Ireland... Ancestry over here is alot more distant for most people than it seems to be in the US, I've noticed...

But yeah - because we don't have alot of canon, we can interpret things our own way... the only thing is that for me an author has to convince me of their interpretation, it's no good them just throwing up thoughts, I have to be able to see where they came from... which I totally can from Rhiannon. *g*

I hope you are able to read it one day - I'd love to know what you think!