Reading Room VI - The Lads in Other Times - Time Out Past Tense by Pamela Rose

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

siskiou is on sick-bunny watch this week, so I'm posting in her place today - except that I'm posting tomorrow, which is now today, after Lj's problems yesterday, and... and are you ready for some time travel now? *g* - and she'll take up a new slot (and fic) for the 3rd November. What a popular category this is! *g* This week's read was...

Title: Time Out Past Tense
Author: Pamela Rose
Link to story or zine/ProsLib info: Circuit Archive and the ProsLib CD.
Pairing: B/D

I do quite like this story, despite the fact that I can't quite believe its initial premise, which is that "the button" that will start a nuclear war will be pushed in a week's time, and there is nothing short of altering history that can stop it. Not diplomacy, not politics, not threats, not sending in the SAS... It really doesn't quite ring true, especially when we've watched the lads disarm an atom bomb in a bowling alley at the very very last second before it goes off... and when Cowley reveals several pages later that actually there may be something they can do.

But that aside, I grew up in the 1980s, and I remember well the fear that some idiot could at any moment set off a war that would see any survivors condemned to a future of eternally dark nuclear winters, despair and lingering death from residual radiation (I'm not really sure why we stopped worrying about it, to be honest, the bombs and the idiots are all still out there...), so a chill ran through me when I realised that's what Cowley was talking about, that's what he was condemning our lads to.

I have my usual niggles about the American-English translation, but although I really can't hear Bodie saying innit, I can hear "my" lads in what they're saying (not just the words), and to me that's the important thing. I can absolutely see that Bodie would want to leave - and to take Doyle with him, by fair means or foul - and that Doyle would be just as determined, at first, to stay. I can see that Doyle would grab at the chance Cowley and Leo Price offer, no matter how unlikely, and that Bodie would be the sceptic there, too. This, to me, is our lads, and that overrides even the bizarre scenario.

"State secrets, eh? No matter. I've had some even more dramatic success since I last spoke with you, George. Remember I told you I had a pencil gone for a several hours?"
"I had a tie missin' for a month once," Bodie whispered in Doyle's ear. Doyle stomped on his foot.

Plus, it's a good old science fiction time-travel story, so we have to give some leeway for implausibility, right? *g* Except that actually I like the explanation given for how Price's time-travel works, and for why the lads will eventually simply be returned to their original time: Price hesitated. "They always come back."
Cowley picked up on the uncertainty. "Always, Leo?"
"Well, I suppose so. To be candid, I've nothing to do with the return. They just kind of ... pop back after a while. I've come to the conclusion the objects act as a type of ... antibody in the time flow. After a while, they get .... uh ... rejected. Expelled. They simply don't belong there, so..." He spread his hands. "I'm sorry, I simply don't have a better explanation just yet. But they always come back. What a great set-up for a time travel story - a desperate mission, a safe return guaranteed, but the added tension given by lack of control over that return. Will they be able to complete the mission in time? It is a bit like the atom bomb in the bowling alley! *g*

What about when the lads are back in time? It's 1937, and they're alone in an empty house in Cornwall at first, before hitching a lift and then catching a train to London. The details of the time are very gently (or sketchily?) filled in - probably a good job, as I'm not sure that most houses, especially remote Cornish ones, had radios that ran on mains electricity, for instance - but they help me to picture where the lads were, and how strange it would be for them. Some things were perhaps a little glib - how often did trains run from Truro to London back then? - but there was little that jarred hugely for me.

The other thing that works for me about this story is that it's not just about the lads travelling back in time to save the world, in fact it's really not about that at all, it's about the way they both react to what's going on, and of course to the way they see and feel each other reacting. It makes us think about them, not just about what's happening, and that's what I want from Pros fic. Is Bodie really as cold and mercenary on the outside as he's depicted, or is Doyle right and he's just been missing all the signs of his soft side? Is Doyle really incapable of shooting someone he knows, or has seen as human (Barry Martin, their target in the story?) - in Operation Impossible the situation was reversed, Bodie failing to shoot the baddie, Doyle doing the job because it needed to be done. I certainly don't see Doyle being particularly squeamish in the eps - except, perhaps, for Barry Martin...

Then again, we are treated to the idea of Doyle as "small" and of "otherworldly beauty" (though earlier it'd been pointed out that no one could describe Doyle as "handsome" - I'm not at all convinced about that, either, and apparently Lawrence Olivier (or was it Guilgud?) didn't have any problem doing so... *g*), and almost automatically attracting the "wrong kind of attention" in a pub, so that they're almost caught up in a brawl. That's surely fanon more than canon - is anyone really likely to do that to the Doyle we see in the eps? - and I think it's a shame it was included, as it wasn't necessary to any other part of the story...

And then, just as we're in the middle of wondering how in the world they're going to get the job done, with Bodie's recently re-located shoulder, and Doyle's previous inability to kill on demand - they're home! Or... are they? The landscape isn't from the 1980s, but it's not 1937 either, and... if carrying weapons through the time portal might cause an explosion and do who knows what, then what might the enormous energy generated by a nuclear war do to it...?

What did you think of the ending? Is this another story where there was supposed to be a sequel that was never written? Or did it get written - does anyone know?

And what did you think of Time Out, Past Tense in general? Did you like it? feel indifferent to it? Believe in it, or the lads? Are they your lads? What d'you reckon...?

Comments

[moth2fic.livejournal.com]

For some weird reason all its own LJ didn't let this show up on my f'list and it was pure chance I remembered and went to the comm to see if you'd posted! Anyway - I think I like the story. I have had it in my list of 'to keep and re-read' fics for ages, and have read it at least twice. So it must do something for me. Like you, I'm a bit bemused by the lads who seem slightly out of kilter.(Do you think maybe the story is set in an alternative world???) I like sci-fi so I like the basic premise and find the time travel intriguing. I was also carried back to the fear we all had in the 70s - somebody should make a vid of this to Sting's 'Russians love their children too.' The ending was stunning - unexpected and powerful. I hadn't realised there was supposed to be a sequel and thought I was just supposed to carry on the story in my head - which I like. So it has left a profound impression on me every time I've read it which suggests good writing!

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Hmmn - well I didn't post it until quite late today, and you actually answered quite quickly, so...? *g*

Like you, I'm a bit bemused by the lads who seem slightly out of kilter.
Oh, I didn't mean to give that impression - I thought I'd pretty much said the opposite, except for the pub brawl scene at the end, where they emphasise how small Doyle is! Which he's not! In the least! And no bloke would look at him in a pub and think he's all wee and girly either, curly hair or none, even in the thirties... Half my relatives had curly hair, for goodness sake, and none of them have reported having to shave it off cos they were called names... Curly hair is just not that weird... Mind you, I never get people who think that red/ginger hair is either, I think they're glorious colours for hair... Erm... sorry, where was I? *g*

No, I actually thought the characterisation was pretty good except for that, and I could see where it was all coming from. So how did you see them as out of kilter?

I don't think there is a sequel or ever was one, I'm just speculating because of the way it did end, as if there was scope for a sequel... I agree though, and I liked the ending too - it was unexpected and powerful!

[moth2fic.livejournal.com]

I only meant in terms of the descriptions - the curls, size, etc. - as you pointed out. I suspect long hair would have upset the pub lot in those days but otherwise MS is macho enough - they would more likely have seen him as a communist or something like that. I liked the rest but I thought they'd have given some thought to the fashions of the time and perhaps cut Ray's hair? That lack of attention to detail seemed slightly out of character though I suppose they were in a hurry. And yes, I think I must have been trying to find the post at the same time as it was uploading...

[milomaus.livejournal.com]

I liked the lads in it very much. Only the part about Doyle being small and stuff, which you already pointed out, didn´t fit. And not being able to shoot the man. The author really gave a very good explanation for Doyle not to shoot, still, I think he´s more ruthless than she let´s him be.
I very, very much enjoyed Bodie´s reason for being annoyed and mad at Cowley! His dissapointment at being the rough man, able to just shoot somebody in the Cows eyes is a very good twist in the story.

I enjoyed the banter very much. The lost tie is just hilarious.
The happenings on the roof and later with Bodie and the soldier in the garden are a bit suspect to me. It kinda sounded like Bodie had one tie or another to the boy. Like it was his grandfather or something...

And the end really left me hanging.
It feels like Pamela Rose got kinda bored, or hit the wanted wordcount or sth, or maybe she wrote a sequel or wanted to write one - anyways, I think the End is awefully sudden.

All in all I still enjoyed the lads in this a lot!
I love the way you look at things! Thanks for the recce!

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I think Doyle's a lot more ruthless than PR let him be too - although it's true that he couldn't seem to shoot Barry Martin, in Rogue. He's shot lots of other people, though, and chucked dozens from rooves and things, so... *g*

Interesting impression about the soldier boy - I don't think I saw it that way, though I suppose Bodie might have seen something of himself in a young soldier doing his duty...?

The ending is quite sudden - but I quite like it! I like endings that suggest the story is continuing, even though we don't get to read it... *g*

I'm glad you liked this one, despite the ending - and thank you! *g*

[squeeful.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure the soldier is an alternate Cowley who injured his leg there instead of Spain.

[milomaus.livejournal.com]

*LOL*

[firlefanzine.livejournal.com]

I love the story! No matter how many implausibilities there may be.
I'm absolutely fond of the young soldier and how Bodie treats him.
And I love Bodie and Doyle for not being able to kill a man cold blooded. (Are we sure that Bodie would have done it???)

I was indeed deeply impressed when I read it two years ago. And I couldn't live with that ending, so I wrote a short epilogue. If anyone is interested, it's on the Proslib CD.
(My one and only English Pros story... ;-))

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

That's a great icon for this story - I don't know why really, because it doesn't illustrate any of the scenes, but... I think it captures the feeling of it, somehow... *g*

And I remember your epilogue now - was it really two years ago, though?! Hmmn - was it up at Safehouse... nope, can't find it there... I know you posted it somewhere, though... aha! You posted it here! Or rather here... *g* (http://ci5hq.livejournal.com/104676.html?thread=1728228#t1728228).

I do think that either of them could probably have killed a man in cold blood though - they've both chosen to live by the gun, they must have decided long ago what that meant for them. But I like that the idea of doing it threw them both, that they both needed to work up to it...

[firlefanzine.livejournal.com]

Honestly - I "like" it when they kill if it's necessary!
As you said:"they've both chosen to live by the gun, they must have decided long ago what
that meant for them."
An op - they know if they don't kill the guard, there could be a bad ending for all of them. So they do it.

But I believe that they need a 'motivation'!

Here everything is absolutely unreal and abstract. Yes, they made this time travel - but everything else is not sure, just a possibility!
And they are no killers!

I'm quite sure Bodie wouldn't have done it either!

What you've found was the first half of the first rough draft of my epilogue. :-)
After that I had two betas.

[shooting2kill.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry, I don't think I've read this at all (which is strange because I love Pam Rose's stories) but your review makes me think that I *should* and will read it.

(though earlier it'd been pointed out that no one could describe Doyle as "handsome" - I'm not at all convinced about that, either, and apparently Lawrence Olivier (or was it Guilgud?) didn't have any problem doing so... *g*)

Just a tiny thing....I think Guildgud described him as 'handsome'. I've read the following comment so many times (probably all lifted from the same source) so it might be true (I'd like to think so) and perhaps on occasion The Mail is accidentally accurate:

He was so dazzling in his youth that when he was introduced to Sir John Gielgud, the legendary actor said regretfully: 'You're frightfully handsome. I suppose you're married!'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-192089/Martin-Shaw-love--alcohol.html#ixzz1a7xiUmbC

I think he's got a fascinating face, a great face for an actor. At times he looks almost craggy and tired and at other times I think his beauty can stop you in your tracks and take your breath away. 'Handsome' doesn't even really cover it.

Thanks for this rec, it sounds a fascinating story.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Yes, thank you - it was Guildgud, and that's exactly the quote I was thinking of! For some reason it was all tangled in my head with a story he told about working with Olivier... or... well something that I can't remember now... *g* And your icon definitely shows that something he's got, doesn't it...

And yes, I think you might like this one, so do read it! It's an interesting, and a think-y fic - a story for grown-ups, to pinch a phrase... *g*

[shooting2kill.livejournal.com]

Hah! I really wish I was a grown-up.....hang on a minute, no I don't!

Yup, I think he worked with Olivier as well and Polanski in Macbeth, where as Banquo he looked stunning and I fell for him yet again.

And I'm so pleased you noticed the icon which was deliberately chosen.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Oh, as Banquo... that was the second role of his I saw, and I was so chuffed cos it was my favourite Doyle being my favourite character from Macbeth... *g*

[mab-browne.livejournal.com]

I like aspects of this story, apart from weenie!fey!Doyle, and I did enjoy the time travelling dynamics. The idea of the lads trapped in a possibly humanless future makes me distressed for them, though, as two men reduced to stone age survival in England would not be fun. Also, won't they be thrown out of the future since they don't belong there either? And possibly it's sad that this is the part of the story that exercises my mind, and accounts for why it's not my favourite among Pamela Rose's work.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Ooh, interesting point about them being antibodies in the time flow just as much in the future as they were in the past... Which would presumably lead to a third sequel... oh my, and to something like the Quanta Leap series by Jane Mailander, coming to a Reading Room near you quite soon... *g*

Although... maybe that would work differently in the future than it does in the past? The past is already set (if you go with the antibodies idea, though of course it's not if the lads change it - ooh, in which case perhaps they shouldn't have pinged back anyway...) but the future is still to be written as far as their timestreams are concerned, so maybe they were there all along... in a timeywimey kind of way... *g*

I guess my 1980s survivors-of-the-nuclear-holocaust thinking knows that there are always other survivors lurking somewhere, even in Z for Zachariah... but yeah, it would certainly not be a comedy fic...

[moonlightmead.livejournal.com]

Everything I would have said has been said already, but I'll just show my face here. Yes, I remember the nuclear paranoia too: I genuinely didn't believe we'd make it to the year 2000 and it was practically mainstream to belong to CND for a while in the early eighties. I am fairly convinced that if Bodie has a secret stash of stuff in a London garage, he also has somewhere in mind as a bolt-hole in the event of the bomb dropping. (I knew someone with one once, and he didn't take jokes about 'well, you can't get there in four minutes' well: he had a definite set of political events that would send him running). At least, I was convinced, but this story takes the other route that was conventional at the time: Europe's fucked, but NZ has a nuclear-free policy, so let's go there.

The "can they do it?" is interesting, As I have said, probably far too often before, I envisage the pair of them becoming very hard if they stay in CI5. Shooting in cold blood as revenge, "clearing up the mess", yes, I can see both of them doing that. Shooting someone who hasn't done anything yet... I dunno. I enjoyed the revelation that Bodie was hurt by Cowley's presumption. (There's actually a good fic I can't remember that takes the opposite tack: Bodie is part of a shady piece of CI5, which deals with MI5/MI6's little problems, and MI6 reciprocate for CI5. And Bodie knows that if he and Doyle are spotted together, they *will* be a security risk, and they will be in the sights - I can't remember its name, but I liked it.)

I do like scifi, but I am not overly interested in 'if I shoot my own grandfather' paradoxes. Nevertheless, I liked this because it was really about them, not about the possible paradoxes.