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ci5hqReading Room VI - The Lads in Other Times: a bonus discussion! The Devil's Apprentice, by Kitty Fisher
Title: The Devil's Apprentice
Author: Kitty Fisher
Pairing: B/D
Link to story: Available in Dark Fantasies 4, on the Circuit Archive, on the Hatstand, and on the Proslib CD.
NB: The "real" fic for discussion this week is Kitty Fisher's The Alchemist's Measure, and the discussion proper is over here: discussion of The Alchemist's Measure. I don't want to kill discussion on The Alchemist's Measure: there's plenty more to say on it, so please continue over there, too! This is just by way of being a followup, because it's clear that a couple of us have read The Devil's Apprentice. There's no need to go and skim it hastily: in fact, if you haven't read it, you could go and read Time Out: Past Tense by Pamela Rose instead, because I don't want to steal siskiou's readers for next week's actual scheduled Reading Room, and that's next on the list. :)
The Devil's Apprentice by Kitty Fisher is the sequel to her earlier fic The Alchemist's Measure. I like it very much indeed, but it is unsettling in a way that The Alchemist's Measure is not. And when I say unsettling, I mean it.
...for those who link direct: spoilers everywhere; hit 'back' if you don't want them.
As with The Alchemist's Measure, we begin with scene-setting and then swoop in on characters. In 1660s London, the spurned Lucy York is plotting revenge on both Doyle and Bodie. In France, Doyle and Bodie are living free from concern. And as with The Alchemist's Measure, we are rapidly with them as they make love. There is a long and remarkable erotic sequence involving a glass dildo and coaxing it into Doyle, and then, on top of that, getting him to change position with it still in. And it's clear that it is at the limits of what his body can take. I think it's all gorgeous, but for readers who perhaps aren't so keen on this idea, it's made okay by the fact that they are consenting adults, they want to do it, they get off on it, and the writing carries us along:
Bodie saw fear and wanting, but most of all he saw the beauty of a strong body given in willing supplication.
I actually want to quote about half of it, but no, I shall be good!
Subsequently, Doyle is kidnapped, returned to England, and delivered into the hands of Lucy York, who is eager to begin her revenge. There is an extended session of anticipation and then torture begins in earnest: over the story there will be beating, whipping, and a brand, before a very unpleasant use of a dagger pommel. The writing is still in the same style as the earlier parts of the story: luxuriant description of the participants and their surroundings, and then the events themselves.
Her hand moved down, brushing against his nipple. She took it between her nails and twisted hard. And licked her lips when he gasped aloud at the pain.
Thinking about what she has heard of him and of Bodie, Lucy asks Doyle, so, this is what he does, so why aren't you getting excited?
And the obvious thing for the reader to say is "ah, well, see, this is the difference between consent and non-consent". Until Bodie is also apprehended and delivered into this torture chamber, and Lucy forces him to look at what she has done and the marks on Doyle and lovingly describes it:
She crossed to stand behind him, the whisper in his ear as seductive as Lucifer, the smile on her face as innocent as Eve's. "See how lovely he looks, the tension in his body, the way his head falls forward so submissively. Don't you love the way the bruises pattern his chest, the whip marks curl around his skin. He could be hanging there for you, for your pleasure. Waiting for you to fuck him, to beat him..." She reached down and ran a gentle finger across a dark nipple where it shadowed the thin, damp fabric of his shirt. "He is so very beautiful, have you ever seen him look so good?"
Entranced by her words, Bodie watched, and saw what she made him see. Doyle was perfect, his long limbs stretched, his belly shadowed at every breath, his eyes downcast, the cant of his head asking to be beaten. Desire shuddered through his blood and his penis stirred against the dark thatch of hair at his groin.
"Bodie..."
There was horror and dismay in the word. Shaking himself Bodie straightened, and knew he had been seeing, as if in a mirror, reality twisted by her words. "Bitch!"
"But it worked..." She moved, laughing softly and took his cock in her hand. Despite Bodie's string of curses, it reared up to meet the softness of her touch.
Wow. Where does that leave the reader? We've followed along as they do these things together, consenting adults, perhaps consoling ourselves that even if we don't quite get it, we can see that they do and it's all okay. And suddenly, Kitty Fisher has pulled that rug from beneath our feet. It is not that simple. Bodie initially fears that Doyle may find himself responding physically, however unwillingly; but it is Bodie who is aroused by the sight of Doyle in the same posture and state that he himself might create, even though it was achieved through torture at the hands of Lucy York. And Bodie is horrified. Whether they make it through or not, something has been spoiled forever.
Things get worse, much worse, physically and emotionally. But this is not a death fic, and they make their escape, courtesy of Murphy, who serves again as a deus ex machina, and a pair of African slaves, who fulfil the same purpose. (There is something that bothers me here, but it's not what I want to focus on.) They reach the sanctuary of their home, but things are not magically made better. Doyle loves Bodie, but can't respond in bed, and in the morning destroys the glass dildo: "better this than anything else". Bodie is left to watch Doyle in the morning light, knowing that 'something had been taken away by that woman; something lost in that terrible room'; and to cling to the desperate determination that what they had could be found again.
So: the ending is a lot bleaker than The Alchemist's Measure, and when I first read them, the two seemed to form a balanced pair. Except that, on re-reading, there almost seemed to be a moral in the second, a moral I didn't like, a moral along the lines of 'these games have ramifications, and if you get in too far, they will cling to you and drag you down'. I didn't like this, because I find the first scene extremely erotic, and quite a few elements of the second one.. hmm... enticing, perhaps? In the passage I quoted, it's deliberately written to produce that effect and - well, perhaps not to justify, but certainly to show why it has the effect it does on Bodie, for instance.
And then I found out, very recently, (although anyone who actually read this in the zine it came from will have known this all along), that apparently they were planned as two in a sequence of four: 'Kitty promises that this is just the second of four parts which will appear in future issues of Dark Fantasies.' - Publisher's description, found on the fanlore.org website. In which case, this would be around about the halfway mark in the narrative, some kind of crisis to be overcome, and not the end.
There is a Sebastian fic, Velvet Underground, (on the circuit archive in text format or in PDF format or here on her website, with introduction - or there are epub and mobi versions -- right, that's enough links! -- anyway, yes, Velvet Underground is a fascinating dreamlike flight of description, following Doyle as he dons the trappings of BDSM for a cover, and then fails to put them away. And on the CD (but not online?) there is a fic, Dance With The Devil, by Artemis, that is a clear response to Velvet Underground, which involves pushing Doyle way beyond endurance to 'cure' him of his interest. I thought Dance With The Devil was well-written, but I simply didn't agree with the basic premise of the fic - that 'BDSM is bad for you', and that Doyle needs curing. I felt I wanted to argue back. I don't know whether my reaction to that is affecting the way I am looking at The Devil's Apprentice. I suspect it may be.
So, the first question is obvious. Several people in the previous discussion equated BDSM with equality, negotiated power exchange, and consent. So what did you make of the comparison of the scene with the Venetian glass dildo and the scene in Lucy York's chamber, and the reactions of the participants to each? Particularly Bodie's arousal - but there is also Doyle eyeing the crop in the latter:
She moved close, and raising her arm, held the crop close to his face. All he could smell was old blood stained deep into its fibres.
If this had been Bodie....
Don't think that!
But, if....
No!
Then second, did you pick up any kind of implied moral in the end? Or was that just me, feeling over-sensitive about Dance With The Devil? Did you, by contrast, come away with the idea that the understanding they share is strong enough that they will undoubtedly overcome what has happened to them?
It's obviously not realistic that they should return and instantly adopt their old roles and have happy sex with or without BDSM overtones - magical mystical fever cure or not, the man has been brutalised and branded, and suffered the beginning of a rape. But did you think the final passage was ultimately optimistic or pessimistic? Can Bodie and Doyle re-establish their relationship?
Does knowing that there were apparently going to be more in the sequence change your answer to the third question?
And finally: did you like it?
Title: The Devil's Apprentice
Author: Kitty Fisher
Pairing: B/D
Link to story: Available in Dark Fantasies 4, on the Circuit Archive, on the Hatstand, and on the Proslib CD.
NB: The "real" fic for discussion this week is Kitty Fisher's The Alchemist's Measure, and the discussion proper is over here: discussion of The Alchemist's Measure. I don't want to kill discussion on The Alchemist's Measure: there's plenty more to say on it, so please continue over there, too! This is just by way of being a followup, because it's clear that a couple of us have read The Devil's Apprentice. There's no need to go and skim it hastily: in fact, if you haven't read it, you could go and read Time Out: Past Tense by Pamela Rose instead, because I don't want to steal siskiou's readers for next week's actual scheduled Reading Room, and that's next on the list. :)
The Devil's Apprentice by Kitty Fisher is the sequel to her earlier fic The Alchemist's Measure. I like it very much indeed, but it is unsettling in a way that The Alchemist's Measure is not. And when I say unsettling, I mean it.
...for those who link direct: spoilers everywhere; hit 'back' if you don't want them.
As with The Alchemist's Measure, we begin with scene-setting and then swoop in on characters. In 1660s London, the spurned Lucy York is plotting revenge on both Doyle and Bodie. In France, Doyle and Bodie are living free from concern. And as with The Alchemist's Measure, we are rapidly with them as they make love. There is a long and remarkable erotic sequence involving a glass dildo and coaxing it into Doyle, and then, on top of that, getting him to change position with it still in. And it's clear that it is at the limits of what his body can take. I think it's all gorgeous, but for readers who perhaps aren't so keen on this idea, it's made okay by the fact that they are consenting adults, they want to do it, they get off on it, and the writing carries us along:
Bodie saw fear and wanting, but most of all he saw the beauty of a strong body given in willing supplication.
I actually want to quote about half of it, but no, I shall be good!
Subsequently, Doyle is kidnapped, returned to England, and delivered into the hands of Lucy York, who is eager to begin her revenge. There is an extended session of anticipation and then torture begins in earnest: over the story there will be beating, whipping, and a brand, before a very unpleasant use of a dagger pommel. The writing is still in the same style as the earlier parts of the story: luxuriant description of the participants and their surroundings, and then the events themselves.
Her hand moved down, brushing against his nipple. She took it between her nails and twisted hard. And licked her lips when he gasped aloud at the pain.
Thinking about what she has heard of him and of Bodie, Lucy asks Doyle, so, this is what he does, so why aren't you getting excited?
And the obvious thing for the reader to say is "ah, well, see, this is the difference between consent and non-consent". Until Bodie is also apprehended and delivered into this torture chamber, and Lucy forces him to look at what she has done and the marks on Doyle and lovingly describes it:
She crossed to stand behind him, the whisper in his ear as seductive as Lucifer, the smile on her face as innocent as Eve's. "See how lovely he looks, the tension in his body, the way his head falls forward so submissively. Don't you love the way the bruises pattern his chest, the whip marks curl around his skin. He could be hanging there for you, for your pleasure. Waiting for you to fuck him, to beat him..." She reached down and ran a gentle finger across a dark nipple where it shadowed the thin, damp fabric of his shirt. "He is so very beautiful, have you ever seen him look so good?"
Entranced by her words, Bodie watched, and saw what she made him see. Doyle was perfect, his long limbs stretched, his belly shadowed at every breath, his eyes downcast, the cant of his head asking to be beaten. Desire shuddered through his blood and his penis stirred against the dark thatch of hair at his groin.
"Bodie..."
There was horror and dismay in the word. Shaking himself Bodie straightened, and knew he had been seeing, as if in a mirror, reality twisted by her words. "Bitch!"
"But it worked..." She moved, laughing softly and took his cock in her hand. Despite Bodie's string of curses, it reared up to meet the softness of her touch.
Wow. Where does that leave the reader? We've followed along as they do these things together, consenting adults, perhaps consoling ourselves that even if we don't quite get it, we can see that they do and it's all okay. And suddenly, Kitty Fisher has pulled that rug from beneath our feet. It is not that simple. Bodie initially fears that Doyle may find himself responding physically, however unwillingly; but it is Bodie who is aroused by the sight of Doyle in the same posture and state that he himself might create, even though it was achieved through torture at the hands of Lucy York. And Bodie is horrified. Whether they make it through or not, something has been spoiled forever.
Things get worse, much worse, physically and emotionally. But this is not a death fic, and they make their escape, courtesy of Murphy, who serves again as a deus ex machina, and a pair of African slaves, who fulfil the same purpose. (There is something that bothers me here, but it's not what I want to focus on.) They reach the sanctuary of their home, but things are not magically made better. Doyle loves Bodie, but can't respond in bed, and in the morning destroys the glass dildo: "better this than anything else". Bodie is left to watch Doyle in the morning light, knowing that 'something had been taken away by that woman; something lost in that terrible room'; and to cling to the desperate determination that what they had could be found again.
So: the ending is a lot bleaker than The Alchemist's Measure, and when I first read them, the two seemed to form a balanced pair. Except that, on re-reading, there almost seemed to be a moral in the second, a moral I didn't like, a moral along the lines of 'these games have ramifications, and if you get in too far, they will cling to you and drag you down'. I didn't like this, because I find the first scene extremely erotic, and quite a few elements of the second one.. hmm... enticing, perhaps? In the passage I quoted, it's deliberately written to produce that effect and - well, perhaps not to justify, but certainly to show why it has the effect it does on Bodie, for instance.
And then I found out, very recently, (although anyone who actually read this in the zine it came from will have known this all along), that apparently they were planned as two in a sequence of four: 'Kitty promises that this is just the second of four parts which will appear in future issues of Dark Fantasies.' - Publisher's description, found on the fanlore.org website. In which case, this would be around about the halfway mark in the narrative, some kind of crisis to be overcome, and not the end.
There is a Sebastian fic, Velvet Underground, (on the circuit archive in text format or in PDF format or here on her website, with introduction - or there are epub and mobi versions -- right, that's enough links! -- anyway, yes, Velvet Underground is a fascinating dreamlike flight of description, following Doyle as he dons the trappings of BDSM for a cover, and then fails to put them away. And on the CD (but not online?) there is a fic, Dance With The Devil, by Artemis, that is a clear response to Velvet Underground, which involves pushing Doyle way beyond endurance to 'cure' him of his interest. I thought Dance With The Devil was well-written, but I simply didn't agree with the basic premise of the fic - that 'BDSM is bad for you', and that Doyle needs curing. I felt I wanted to argue back. I don't know whether my reaction to that is affecting the way I am looking at The Devil's Apprentice. I suspect it may be.
So, the first question is obvious. Several people in the previous discussion equated BDSM with equality, negotiated power exchange, and consent. So what did you make of the comparison of the scene with the Venetian glass dildo and the scene in Lucy York's chamber, and the reactions of the participants to each? Particularly Bodie's arousal - but there is also Doyle eyeing the crop in the latter:
She moved close, and raising her arm, held the crop close to his face. All he could smell was old blood stained deep into its fibres.
If this had been Bodie....
Don't think that!
But, if....
No!
Then second, did you pick up any kind of implied moral in the end? Or was that just me, feeling over-sensitive about Dance With The Devil? Did you, by contrast, come away with the idea that the understanding they share is strong enough that they will undoubtedly overcome what has happened to them?
It's obviously not realistic that they should return and instantly adopt their old roles and have happy sex with or without BDSM overtones - magical mystical fever cure or not, the man has been brutalised and branded, and suffered the beginning of a rape. But did you think the final passage was ultimately optimistic or pessimistic? Can Bodie and Doyle re-establish their relationship?
Does knowing that there were apparently going to be more in the sequence change your answer to the third question?
And finally: did you like it?
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Date: 2011-09-30 01:57 pm (UTC)Wow. Where does that leave the reader? We've followed along as they do these things together, consenting adults, perhaps consoling ourselves that even if we don't quite get it, we can see that they do and it's all okay.
Something else I like about Kitty Fisher's writing, she's not afraid to make us think and question things (in just the same way that Pros itself does). This part is uncomfortable to read, because we want Bodie to know the difference between what he does and what Lucy York does, but... the thing is, he does, and although his body's responding, I think Fisher makes it clear that he hates what's going on, that he wouldn't participate willingly and that to me is the crux of the matter.
You could compare it, for instance, to a man who sees a young, sexily-dressed girl, and is aroused. It might not be clear whether she's 17 or whether she's 15 - what's two years, after all? It might not even be clear whether she's 20 or 15 - but his body has reacted to seeing her body. The difference the age makes, of course, is whether it's legal or illegal for him to act upon his feelings - if the girl turned out to be 15, then here in the UK it would be illegal for him to take it further and have sex with her. But the vast majority of men know that it's wrong, and would either steer clear in the first place, or else make very sure that she's old enough (ie, "a consenting adult") before doing anything.
And it's the same with our lads in Devil's Apprentice - when they're both consenting adults they're free to enjoy what they do. But Fisher makes it clear to me that if one of them stops being a consenting adult, as has Doyle in the torture scene, then the other would immediately stop too (as you pointed out in the AM post, Doyle doesn't consent to being gagged, and Bodie immediately backs away.) Because there's a difference between our rational decisions and our body's automatic responses. Doyle's used to seeing the crop and thinking of it in one way - but he also knows rationally that this situation is very different. Imagine being presented with your favourite chocolate (glass of mead/wine/whisky *g*) in the world, and then told that it had been poisoned - your first reaction would be mmmmn, yes please! and your mouth would water and you'd want it. But rationally you'd know you couldn't have it, and so you wouldn't...
That said - I was so glad to hear that Fisher had planned a sequel to Devil's Apprentice, because I hate the thought that all their love and passion and the way their needs complemented each other so perfectly could be taken away from them! I suppose it did read a little as though it could be moralistic too - this is what happens if you play with dark desires! - but there was a part of me that didn't quite believe that, I think because Fisher has made it so clear all along that the bdsm is good in their relationship...
And yes, I wanted to fight back against Dance with the Devil too, because whilst it seemed Sebastian was telling us about the darker side of life, and venturing into the (lovely Pros-y) greyness of our world, Artemis was trying to tell us that it's-okay-really-there-are-white-hats-and-black-hats-and-we-just-need-to-stop-the-black-hats - and that's not true! She oversimplified things in order to end up with what looks on the outside like a nice, happy ending where the lads are both good again, and I just can't believe in her version at all, whereas I can see the bewitching world that Doyle has fallen into in our messy, scary, recognisable one.
But yes, I did like Devil's Apprentice, and I do want more, and come back to Pros Kitty Fisher! *sighs*
no subject
Date: 2011-09-30 10:37 pm (UTC)I agree with nearly everything you say here, actually, although I certainly hadn't thought of the analogy about black/white/grey and scary messy world re Velvet Underground and Dance With The Devil. But the "reacting to someone you shouldn't" is spot on.
I think I'm just going to have to admit that I'm with Bodie's autonomic system here: the description of Doyle is still the same, and I can totally see why Bodie reacts that way. I'm not sure what that says about me.
And yes, I want to see how they are going to overcome it, because Lucy Doyle really has spoiled everything for them. (Really, she has absolutely no imagination, has she, because wouldn't someone who really hated be more taken with the idea that they'd ruined someone's life rather than taken someone's life?)
no subject
Date: 2011-10-01 07:08 am (UTC)Lol - not if they didn't have any imagination... *g* And really, Lucy York's other dastardly plan was basically marry someone who knows the King so that I can sleep with the King. Not exactly Macchiavellian... *g*
Then again, I suppose it's clear in the fic that Lucy York *doesn't* understand what the lads do... In fact Fisher draws a comparison between Lucy York enjoying sadism when it's against someone's will (though we don't know if she'd enjoy it if it was consensual, I suppose) and the lads enjoying consensual bdsm that balances them, and is therefore equal...
Oh, I wish she'd written those other fics!
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Date: 2011-10-01 10:30 pm (UTC)enjoying sadism when it's against someone's will (though we don't know if she'd enjoy it if it was consensual, I suppose) - This is something that the term 'BDSM' obscures, perhaps. I don't think a sadist needs a masochist to get kicks - not a sadist in the original definition, at least. Anyone will do. Someone drew attention to Helen Raven's 'Techniques' in the previous discussion. What else is going on there if not sadism: getting sexual kicks from inflicting pain? The prisoner isn't involved willingly, but there's still sadism. Using the term 'BDSM' with its links and pairs tends to push the idea that there are poles which go together, and that one can't/shouldn't/doesn't occur without the other. Especially when discussions about power-sharing and equality occur. But I'm not sure it's true.
Hmm. Not sure where this is going, really. Perhaps we should head back to seventeenth century masterplans...
no subject
Date: 2011-10-01 10:53 pm (UTC)Yes, I do know what you mean, and I've been blinking sideways at that very point as I've thought about things, but... I suppose really we need to be careful that we're using the term correctly when we use it, not that it means something different. Lucy York is a sadist - as you say, anyone will do. In Techniques both Bodie and Doyle are sadists, and I think that's why it's one of the few Helen Raven stories that doesn't really work for me - I can't see either lad, via canon, as a sadist. But in Kitty Fisher's stories, the lads are into bondage, discipline, domination and submission, sadism and masochism, divided differently between the two of them, and ultimately balancing. So for me, when we're talking about bdsm in those stories, there is an equality between them and therefore using the term is correct.
That doesn't mean that we're correctly applying the term to other stories - Techniques is not bdsm, for instance and so can't really be compared (though it can be discussed... *g*)
Anyway, that's what I reckon... *g*
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Date: 2011-10-02 06:20 pm (UTC)Some of Kitty Fisher's stories in other fandoms are in fact much much heavier on the non-consensual violence; though so far in the ones I have seen people do get rescued, and do start to recover - so yay, there is hope for Doyle here.
Still, even if the characters and the author are clear it is non-consensual, I keep reading. I think perhaps that's what I mean when I say it's unsettling. Just because a character says 'no' doesn't stop me reading them.
I can't see either lad, via canon, as a sadist.
Well, via canon, there are quite a few things we perhaps shouldn't be seeing :) I can, I think, or at least I can imagine a series of steps that progress to that point, and so Techniques as a story works for me. CI5 gone very bad indeed...
no subject
Date: 2011-09-30 03:14 pm (UTC)In the torture scene, I didn't feel that Bodie's arousal pulled the rug from under my feet with regard to the BDSM/consent issue. It seems natural to me that he would be aroused, because if that sort of thing didn't turn him on, he wouldn't have been into BDSM in the first place. He didn't stay aroused, so his horror at what was happening to Doyle comes across quite clearly - and I think it came across to Doyle, too, because I don't get the impression that he resented Bodie for his moment of weakness. Whereas the scene with the glass dildo was a continuation of the equal, trusting relationship they began in the first story - just even hotter! lol
"Then second, did you pick up any kind of implied moral in the end? Or was that just me, feeling over-sensitive about Dance With The Devil? Did you, by contrast, come away with the idea that the understanding they share is strong enough that they will undoubtedly overcome what has happened to them?"
No, I picked up a moral too, and I read this one before Dance With The Devil (much worse from the moral point of view). The symbolism contained in Doyle destroying the dildo was quite pointed (unlike the dildo itself which seemed to be quite rounded - no, don't kill me! *hides*). I would expect B&D to overcome what had happened, though - in fact, I think when ready, a good dose of the safe, trusting BDSM would be the best therapy for them.
"Can Bodie and Doyle re-establish their relationship?"
Yes. I think they were already starting to re-establish it. The fact that Doyle can't respond in bed is perfectly natural, and the fact that he still lets Bodie touch him, etc, shows that the trust - the crux of their relationship - is still there. This line - 'In silence they lay together, and in the simplicity of touch was the beginning of healing' - shows that slowly, they'll come back to what they were. And the last passage *is* optimistic, I think.
If I were writing a sequel to this, I'd have moderate to industrial strength hurt/comfort, with angst stemming from Bodie treating Doyle too tenderly all the time, and Doyle wanting more rough stuff again but not being quite sure how to ask for it. Cliché? Maybe ...
"Does knowing that there were apparently going to be more in the sequence change your answer to the third question?"
No.
"And finally: did you like it?"
Yes. I didn't *like* the torture, obviously, but just like when Doyle's hurt in the show, it's compelling. So I found bits compelling, and liked other bits, and the only part that bored me was the mystic fever cure bit.
no subject
Date: 2011-09-30 11:12 pm (UTC)I never even thought of that point. Ahem.
The (first) dildo scene is just phenomenal, I agree. I did notice it has more of the, well, trappings of a BDSM scene, I suppose, with the use of the term 'master' and 'tell me what you want', compared with The Alchemist's Measure. I'm not sure that I actually liked that. I think I like the out-of-real-world/time element of these two fics.
The symbolism contained in Doyle destroying the dildo was quite pointed
Oh, totally.
This line - 'In silence they lay together, and in the simplicity of touch was the beginning of healing' - shows that slowly, they'll come back to what they were. And the last passage *is* optimistic, I think.
I am glad that people are seeing some kind of hope!
I didn't *like* the torture, obviously, but just like when Doyle's hurt in the show, it's compelling
"Doyle suffers beautifully", eh? :) (I've seen that more than once on LJ, often next to screencaps.)
I haven't finished it, but I have got a good way through the non-Pros zine by Kitty Fisher I bought recently, 'Lucifer Falling'. It's a Highlander story. And it's not just Doyle who suffers beautifully. At least some of the Highlander characters can't die (watch the non-Highlander-watcher fail on Highlander comprehension here), and so you can do quite a bit to them, including killing them. Repeatedly, apparently.
the only part that bored me was the mystic fever cure bit.
I really want to praise every aspect of this fic to the skies, but this bit did give me problems. It came across as almost caricaturish, somehow, which surprises me, because again, the dreamlike elements of it are something that in the rest of the fic (and the prior one), Kitty Fisher excels at.
no subject
Date: 2011-10-02 11:38 pm (UTC)Did you ever come across a series KF write with someone else, based on John Constantine and the demon Balthazar from the movie? That was a locked comm (now deleted - not sure what happened to it) and billed as "hurt-hurt". It was definitely extreme. Sounds similar to the Highlander concept.
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Date: 2011-10-03 06:35 am (UTC)Wow, no, I didn't. Damn. I haven't seen the film, but I was a big fan of the comics - and of John Constantine (in a 'if ever you meet him, run a mile' sort of way). I don't know whether the film kept it, but for parts of the comic storyline, Constantine has demon blood which lets him heal, so I can see how this storyline would work.
And I would love to have seen that story. Damn.
no subject
Date: 2011-10-03 08:07 am (UTC)I have printouts of several of the stories but not the whole thing - it's looong and moves back and forth a lot from young Johnny to adult and back/beyond. Hmmm - I'll ask the other writer if any of it is still available.
no subject
Date: 2011-10-03 08:14 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-09-30 09:47 pm (UTC)I´m not able to join the discussion right now, which makes me kinda sad, but I will read all of it and comment again sometime next year or so....
no subject
Date: 2011-09-30 11:14 pm (UTC)Yes, come back and comment later! I think it's a pity that so many discussions are over after they have fallen off people's friends list pages, which is often 24 hours or less. It doesn't give a lot of time. I often wonder whether it's worth commenting when even two days have gone past, but then I wish other people would, so perhaps I should too.
no subject
Date: 2011-09-30 10:31 pm (UTC)One thing I always take into consideration about men is that they can be aroused even against their will and there is physical evidence. :) Just because the brain says no, the body doesn't always listen. :)
I'm not a fan of Velvet Underground.
no subject
Date: 2011-09-30 11:17 pm (UTC)Just because the brain says no, the body doesn't always listen
Nod. It's the presentation of it here that is the jolt, I think.