Reading Room Theme IV - Older Lads Fic - Devices and Desires by M. Fae Glasgow

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Title: Devices and Desires
Author:M.Fae Glasgow
Link to story or zine/ProsLib info: at Oblique Publications or at the Circuit Archive.
Link to prequel - A Summer's Outing (Devices and Desires can be read on its own)
Pairing: B/D

I can't for the life of me remember who it was who said "I like this fic but I won't have a chance to rec it", but whoever it was, this post is for you! I hope it matches what you saw in the fic, at least a bit.

Devices and Desires is the sequel to A Summer's Outing, published in the same zine (...as a £3 note from Oblique Publications), and originally meant as a single, complete story. M.Fae Glasgow is not known for shying away from the harsh side of life, however, and in A Summer's Outing we see the lads on the verge of beginning a love affair, only for Cowley to blackmail them into outing themselves to ensure the security and long term future of CI5 and it's agents (including the lads). In many fics this would have hurried the lads along into bed and they would have woken starry-eyed to realise they each couldn't live without the other (perhaps with a misunderstanding or two along the way, depending on the length of the story). In Glasgow's bolder hands, however, this becomes a psychological tale of how such manipulation coupled with insecurities created by the mores of the time can tear people apart, and send them, as the editor's introduction said, "in dark directions".

But... *g*

...but Glasgow did not after all end her story there, she wrote Devices and Desires instead, which finds the lads again some ten years later. Doyle survived Mae Li without Bodie to save him, but has been sent because since then Doyle has been living as openly gay, a test-case for CI5, and proof that any good agent can live a life of discretion and security. But from the very beginning of Devices and Desires, Doyle is still trying to stop himself thinking about Bodie, because Bodie ran off and left him a long time ago.

Of course Bodie, it turns out, is on the cruise as well - something of a shock, as the reason he left was because he couldn't bear to be "outed", couldn't admit to himself that he was as gay as Doyle. In ten years though, things have changed.

Doyle: There was grey in his chest hair now... he'd never be fat... but his muscles had massed with the passing of the years, most of the fawn-like litheness disappearing beneath a layer of slender strength. Facing himself in the mirror he looked at all the lines and wrinkles that could tell his life story... Oh, there were laughter lines aplenty, but there was also the furrowing of his brow, the deeply delineated frown marks standing like soldiers between his eyebrows, the faint droop of his mouth. But most of all, there was that hollowness of his eyes he always found so depressing, for it reflected what was left when you subtracted his job."

Bodie: "There were lines on Bodie's face... Too much pain had lived on this face, with too little laughter and too much anger. Subtle changes, too, adding to the distortion caused by the wrinkling of skin that had once struck him as the most beautiful skin he'd ever seen. Jowls were beginning, minutely, faintly, but for the first time, one could see how Bodie would look as an old man... The body was still trim, but stolid now, settled down into the stubborn build of a rugby player, all solidity and power. The skin was still as white, still prone to sunburn, which was probably why Bodie was the only man on board this ship who wasn't exposing at least his legs to the sun."

The story follows them through the first awkwardness of meeting again ("...watching each other constantly, with a kind of morbid subterfuge, trying to find signs that the other had been missed, that life had been less worth living in the absence of the other"), and takes us on an even greater journey of bitter discovery: "He'd basically managed to never think about how Bodie'd felt, losing CI5 and Cowley, only going as far as comforting himself with the knowledge that if Bodie had really wanted it, he would have stayed and fought. Beside him, at his back, where they belonged together... He strangled that snakelike hope... There were too many years between them, and Bodie's marriage to consider... The one and only fact he'd ever asked Cowley for, the one and only fact that had cut him dead cold and buried any chances he thought he and Bodie might have had."

What I like about Glasgow's writing - and perhaps what some readers don't like - is that we feel every nuance of the lads' feelings as we read along. She doesn't just tell us that Doyle was angry, we share with him every stroke of movement as he tries to deal with it, every second of Doyle's breakneck rollercoaster thoughts, just as if they're our own and it's all happening to us. She doesn't write action packed stories, nor what Clemens would have scathingly called dialogue packed" stories - instead... I suppose she writes thought-packed stories - and thoughtful as well, because you can definitely have the one without the other. Her thoughts lead to our sharing the feeling of it all though, and that's what I want from stories - to feel them!

There are painful revelations about what life's been like for the lads, Bodie in particular, who had to cope with alcoholism inherited from his father on top of everything else - Glasgow doesn't forget that our families and our past influence what happens to us, as much as our choices and fears and hopes - and we feel Doyle's solid misery and painful hope all through the story too. She writes lads that exist and live and are influenced by the real world, and that's something else I love her writing for - though again I know it's not every fan's cup of tea.

In the end, though, we get to where we want to be - the lads properly together, talking to each other, understanding each other - accepting each other. And realising that of course it was Cowley yet again who's set them up, who arranged not only for Doyle to go on the cruise, but for Bodie, who'd long left CI5 and Cowley's sphere of influence, to receive not only an inheritance from a relative, but instructions to spend some of it on a holiday and coincidentally a brochure for a cruise through his letterbox... And here we are: "...Bodie was upon him, inarticulate noises coming from both of them, Doyle holding him tight while Bodie kissed the world away... There was nothing for him to be aware of, apart from Bodie; all his eyes could see, all his ears could hear, all his mouth could taste, was Bodie. It was better than it had ever been..." and all that yearning and sorrow and bittersweet hope has taken us somewhere wonderful after all. "If Cowley's devices had split them up, then their own desires would hold them together."

So... what do you want most from stories - to feel them, or to hear them, or to see them? Does Devices and Desires work for you, in that light?

What do you think of Glasgow's older lads here - physically, emotionally - do they ring true for you?

If you read the prequel as well, does Glasgow make you believe that's how the lads would have handled the situation with Cowley outing them - does it fit with what we see of them in the episodes? Might it have happened like that?

And does having our older lads together at last make up for them being torn asunder as young lads? Could they have found the same kind of love and life if Bodie had never left, or did we have to wait for things to work out?

What did you think? *g*

Comments

[firlefanzine.livejournal.com]

You've picked the important bits, and I agree to all you've said, and it really is a good story!
- but I don't like it.

You said 'painful'. Yes it is! It even is depressing.

"She writes lads that exist and live and are influenced by the real world, and that's something else I love her writing for - though again I know it's not every fan's cup of tea."
But does that make me happy while reading the story and afterwards? Do I sigh happily "Yes that's real life!"? Surely not!
Call me a coward, but I don't want Bodie and Doyle to suffer such an extremely bleak life as they did in this story. It's sombre and at least for Bodie disastrous.

" In the end, though, we get to where we want to be - "
I don't know... Is that the evil mind of MFG? "If I write a 'cosy' ending, then I put them (here more Bodie) first through the wringer and make sure that the future is insecure as well (Bodie is a drinker)."

Hmmmm... there are other stories, where there were very hard times for the boys in the past, but it never depressed me that way.
You're probably right, that MFG has the skills to let us feel it all very deeply! And luckily, sometimes she uses her skills for more 'positive' stories. :-)

LOL! My first thought was 'OMG, a ship full of randy gays...'. That's nearly as bad as a baby party! ;-)
But obviously MFG, as well as Doyle and Bodie, thought the same, and it wasn't too important for the story.

I like it that Cowley finally plays Cupid.

"What do you think of Glasgow's older lads here - physically, emotionally - do they ring true for you?"
Yes they ring true. Especially considering the special circumstances. (But I wouldn't call lads in their fourties older lads... ;-))

**
M.F.Glasgow yes, or not?
Sometimes! :-)

- thanks for the rec!

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Lol - I knew you wouldn't like it! I don't find it depressing at all, because there's light for them at the end of the tunnel. We all go through hard times, and I like to read fic that shows hard times are something that people can live through and overcome, and that there might still be a sparkly star for them, even if we have had to wait for it.

I don't know... Is that the evil mind of MFG?
No, I think it's just different ways of seeing the world. For me (and perhaps Glasgow as well) the sunshine is sweeter when it comes fresh and bright at the end of a thunderstorm, or a stretch of endlessly grey days. I actually get quite bored with nothing but sunshine all the time, and I like my stories the same way. Happiness is so much sweeter when we remember that we're lucky to have it.

And yes, I agree - forties really isn't old lads... though I suppose technically they are older than they were in the eps!

[firlefanzine.livejournal.com]

"...the sunshine is sweeter when it comes fresh and bright at the end of a thunderstorm...and that there might still be a sparkly star for them, even if we have had to wait for it."
Very poetic! :-)
But the hard times Bodie had, were a bit heavy! (not allowed to see his kids, drinker, AA...)
And I'm not so sure about their bright future.
Probably it all depends on Bodie's next job. CI5? Maybe.
Together with Doyle on top? That wouldn't be realistic.

...well, I wouldn't want MFG to write the next part of the story, that's for sure! ;-)

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

I think there are lots of ways their future could go, and I suppose it depends on what you call bright. I don't see that Doyle is "on top" any more than Bodie is, though perhaps in some ways Bodie had a harder time.

I'd very much have liked MFG to write another sequel!

[firlefanzine.livejournal.com]

"I don't see that Doyle is "on top" any more than Bodie is..."
Why that?
"I'm Cowley's second now and when the Old Man retires, it'll be my hands on the reins."
You mean that'll change after their 'reunion'?

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

"I'm Cowley's second now and when the Old Man retires, it'll be my hands on the reins."
You mean that'll change after their 'reunion'?
Oh I see - yes, but Bodie's not with CI5 any more, and hasn't been for 10 years. For all we know he might be top of where ever he's working now. I don't see that as a huge problem between them - they both know it's a change, they both know it can't be different, so...

[shooting2kill.livejournal.com]

I did try to read this for the discussion, honest, and I was very diligent for the first couple of pages (and I loved that split second moment when Doyle first senses Bodie’s presence) but then I have to admit I started to skim over the rest....I don’t know quite *what* it is with Glasgow’s writing. I think she writes wonderfully, has written many memorable stories and used to be a favourite of mine (e.g. All You Need is Love) and I still read the shorter stories such as Back Alley and Wish You Were Here, it’s just that nowadays, while still thinking she's a wonderful writer, I don’t seem to have the necessary patience with her writing style. Too wordy? Longwinded? Repetitive? Labours a point? Writing just for the sake of writing? Doing what I’m doing now? Anyway, here’s a short example of what I mean, admittedly slightly condensed:

There were far too many years between them, and Bodie’s marriage to consider. Regardless of the fact that Bodie was on gay cruise, there was the fact of his marriage....…it was probably the marriage that rankled most……There was the marriage to consider, and although he knew many a gay man married for camouflage and familial duties....

is that we feel every nuance of the lads' feelings as we read along…….
So... what do you want most from stories - to feel them, or to hear them, or to see them? Does Devices and Desires work for you, in that light?

Yes! I love stories where I can feel, hear and see the characters, subtle stories where the nuances are picked up, hinted at and written well, but maybe not over and over again!

Depressing? Maybe at times the tone is a bit desolate, a bit bleak. Yes, there’s light at the end of the tunnel but they’ve been through a lot, life has been lonely and taken its toll. I don’t know.....…I didn’t really delve into it enough to reach a decision.

An interesting choice, thanks for this!

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

I must admit that this one wasn't a choice of mine - it was suggested by someone who couldn't rec it herself, back when we were asking whether anyone was going to post at all, and I said I'd do it. To be honest the cruise has always thrown me when I tried to read this - though that was much less an issue when I made a point of reading A Summer's Outing first, which made things much clearer, and more likely, it seemed.

There were far too many years between them, and Bodie’s marriage to consider. Regardless of the fact that Bodie was on gay cruise, there was the fact of his marriage....…it was probably the marriage that rankled most……There was the marriage to consider, and although he knew many a gay man married for camouflage and familial duties....
To be fair, when you say "slightly condensed" there's at least half a page of other writing in between some of the phrases you've quoted, your quote is spread over an entire A4-size zine page! But it rings true to me, too - Doyle's obsessing with it, it's picking at him, niggling, and that's just the way my stupid thoughts run when I'm upset about something - pick, pick, pick... *g*

So I don't see her as repetitive or long-winded or wordy in the above case, though she occasionally can be. She's certainly wordier than most current writing styles, but that's perhaps a sign of the times - and again I rather like it, adding richness and nuances for me, rather than just being repetitive. But everyone's mileage varies, as they say, and that's why we're here, after all!

[moonlightmead.livejournal.com]

Warning. I have been *thinking*. Never a good idea.

I came across M Fae Glasgow fairly early on in my mammoth attempt to catch up with 30 years of fic from a standing start; and it's possible that she and the other Oblique writers established my ideas of what Pros fic was about in the first place. I do like the fun frothy stories, and I very much like the long novel-length AUs. But this stuff, the far from fun and frothy... yes, I like it, and I think it follows on from the universe of the programme itself much more credibly.

I'm not sure I read the two as a two-parter initially. If I had read A Summer's Outing, I certainly didn't connect it with this. I read it as a stand-alone, and the gay cruise line business threw me right at the start. I'd be delighted to think I'm wrong, but I didn't believe that this existed - based in Britain, at least - at the time portrayed (although I remember AIDS paranoia and "self-inflicted" very well).So the set-up seemed a bit silly to me. And Cowley the penitent righter-of-injustice seemed only a plot device. A very apt one, balancing the events of A Summer's Outing, perhaps, but still.

The line you quote, about Doyle never thinking about how Bodie'd felt, losing CI5 and Cowley: the way I read A Summer's Outing, it was Doyle who provoked Bodie into running. Bodie could have stayed, yes, but Doyle was the one who really rubbed Bodie's nose in it. I'm not sure she really makes that point: does she expect the reader to draw the link, or am I just reading things in that aren't there?

The questions: do these older lads work for me? Emphatically, yes.I do like fics where they have avoided too much emotional damage and have settled into a steadfast relationship for years; but the cynical side of me says that they're in a brutal job doing brutal things, and are only likely to be brutalised further with time. Bodie's desperate "I'm straight, see, I'm married!" strikes me as likely, as does eventually having to deal with it. Again, coming out by booking a tour on a gay cruise: no, not necessarily credible in the specifics, but in the generalities of something ostensibly irrevocable whilst at the same time not expecting to see anyone he _knows_ (he's not expecting to know anyone, never mind Doyle), yes, entirely credible. The idea of doing something far from where anyone you know will see you, and being faced with someone who really didn't expect: ohhh yes.

Similarly, I don't see anything incredible in anyone in this field of work relying on alcohol, and Bodie's description of the effects on the family looks far too accurate. Can't speak for the details of dealing with it, but it convinced me.

The prequel: I don't believe Cowley would have outed them "to prove that homosexuals were not a security risk". To show that CI5 is whiter than white by dumping them, maybe. That said, if he *did*, both Doyle's and Bodie's reactions sound plausible to me, and either one of them could have given either reaction.

Gods, probably enough for now.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

You carry on thinking, it's always a good idea!

I did the same as you I think, as regards this being a two-part story, and in fact for a long time I avoided this one, because I really didn't get the idea of the lads on a gay cruise (anachronisms notwithstanding, and I'd have to do some research to find out about that!). It makes so much more sense when read with the prequel, though!

I quite like Cowley-the-penitent to be honest - mostly because we didn't see him at it, perhaps, and it wasn't portrayed as anything more than him feeling a bit sneaky - although actually it was hinted at in the first story, that he might have other motivations - perhaps misguided - urging him on. I can believe that he'd try to manipulate the lads to some extent, but probably not as far as forcing them "out" for all time, even if he did have evidence that it was true...

I'm not sure I'm with you about Doyle rubbing Bodie's nose in anything - I think he was upset and frustrated and hugely disappointed that Bodie wasn't choosing to stand up with him, no matter what, and I can see how that might make him harsh, but I don't think he rubbed Bodie's nose in it any more than Bodie rubbed Doyle's in it... What gave you that impression?

My brain is leaking right now - past my bedtime! I expect I'll be back tomorrow to read your comment more properly though... *g*

[moonlightmead.livejournal.com]

It definitely makes more sense when you read both parts, yes.

On nose-rubbing: I am specifically thinking of the final bit of 'A Summer's Outing', where Doyle deliberately picks someone up and brings him back to the flat, casually dismissing Bodie as irrelevant to his companion, and ensuring that Bodie hears the details of what he himself could have been doing with Doyle.

And from the noises beginning to filter down from upstairs, Doyle was no cowering mouse in bed. [...] and he was on his feet and out of there, running, racing away from hearing any more, escaping the sounds that were threatening to rip him open and expose him to himself. He was fleeing, as fast as his feet could carry him, from the self-knowledge that threatened to shatter him.

So that, I think, was really rubbing Bodie's nose in it, in something Bodie didn't want to accept about himself, and which Doyle wanted to force him to accept.

To get back to the story itself, rather than the prequel... Cowley the penitent is fine (and the idea of him hunting down old mates to repay debts is great); but being so able to be so sure that one would book a holiday and then he could insist the other accept a ticket to the same one, that was the bit I wasn't so sure about. It seems quite a chance to take. He must have been very, very sure of his grasp of psychology.

(Although, obviously, it all worked out in the end :))

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

where Doyle deliberately picks someone up and brings him back to the flat, casually dismissing Bodie as irrelevant to his companion
Oh I see what you mean - but I've got to admit I don't see that as nose-rubbing so much as the massive extent of Doyle's hurt, coupled with anger and disappointment in Bodie too. It's certainly spiteful, but... maybe I'm defining nose-rubbing in a different way, somehow... I somehow have the impression that he's still hoping that Bodie will jump up and stop him, that it's something that'll force him into action and acceptance rather than Doyle just doing it to make him feel bad, which is what I think of as nose-rubbing...

And ha - yes, it was rather providential that Bodie took the cruise without anything more than a letter through the post (although actually I suppose it was probably the other way around - Cowley drew Bodie in the direction of something, watched to see what it was and when, and then booked Doyle onto the same thing...) And then again I do have to remind myself that we only tell stories that are about coincidences and ridiculous things happening anyway - we don't go around recounting the straightforward and normal, cos that's just dull! *g*

[merentha13.livejournal.com]

I have mixed feelings about MFG's stories. The writing is terrific. I like dark, angsty stories and I love it when the lads are 'tortured', mentally and physically. But there is a fine line (for me, anyway) between hard and harsh. MFG and I are on different sides of that line. Bodie and Doyle are hard men, no doubt. But MFG takes them too far - she makes them harsh, and I don't think they would be that, at least not with each other. The scene moonllightmead describes above where Ray brings home his pick-up to hurt Bodie - to me that is just not the kind of thing Ray would do. He might go out and find someone else for the night, but I don't think he'd flaunt him in front of Bodie.

I do like dark, pain filled stories, but for me there has to be a bit of hope for something better. The end of "A Summer's Outing" leaves no hope. Ray watches Bodie walk away. Regret without hope is just, well, depressing! So, like Slantedlight, for me the darkness makes the light all the better. MFG
s stories just don't leave me with enough of the light.

This story, while having its bleak moments, does put the lads back together;for better or worse, we don't know. But I did enjoy this story more than its prequel. There were some parts that didn't ring true to my version of the lads - Bodie's "taking a hand" to his wife - I just don't see him hitting a woman, especially one he loved enough to marry, regardless of his drinking problems. Again, just my opinion. But as sad as their lives have been, the reader is left with a bit of hope for them. They won't make the same mistakes again. They seem to be on the same page.
So while I'm not a huge fan of MFG, this story did work for me.

Thanks for the rec and the interesting discussions!

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

I don't think I see MFG's lads as unrealistically harsh (in most stories - Snowbound is a definite exception!) because she tends to indicate why they are that way. As you say, they have to be pretty tough to start with, to do what they do - they beat people up every day, they kill them, they set people up for crimes they didn't commit if it will help a case, all sorts of things. You have to be quite harsh to get that far to start with. And then even before that Bodie was a mercenary, and Doyle knifed another kid when he was just a kid himself. So I can absolutely see the lads as basically harsh - though together they'd improve each other no end, and we do see that they've a basic humanity too, like Bodie with Frances Cottingham and Doyle with Mickey Hamilton etc... But that doesn't preclude harshness - the same blokes who'll go out and slash and burn companies will coo over their newborn babies... I can definitely see MFG's lads - although I like seeing other versions of them too!

There were some parts that didn't ring true to my version of the lads - Bodie's "taking a hand" to his wife - I just don't see him hitting a woman
Except that we've seen him do it in canon, in Close Quarters - and that's his girlfriend too...

[moonlightmead.livejournal.com]

don't see him hitting a woman, especially one he loved enough to marry, regardless of his drinking problems

I could believe that easily. I think that once you're talking about serious alcohol abuse - and I presume MFG is; it's not just 'I get aggressive when drunk', it's 'however much I drank, I wasn't even feeling drunk any more' - people can change drastically.

Agree about them (and us!) being left a little hope!

[starlite876.livejournal.com]

I had read this story previously (but not the prequel) and remembered feeling sad that it had taken ten years before the lads are reunited, and sad also that in the ten years apart both lads had suffered in their own way – Bodie through his failed marriage and alcoholism, and Doyle living with his unhappiness because Bodie had left him.

For this week discussion, I read the prequel first, and then this story again. It made me glad that I had not read the prequel before as "A Summer's Outing" ended with an absolutely bleak ending. At least this story offered a chance for the lads to find happiness after ten years apart.

Like the others already commented before, I too have very mixed feelings when I read MFG's stories because I know she writes such intense stories that do not always guarantee a happy ending for the lads. Many of her stories are full of angst and I know when I read one of her stories that it would most likely have a sad or dark ending.

Did I like this story? I did enjoyed this more than the prequel, but I would probably would not have read this story again if not for this week's discussion.

I look forward to reading everyone's views on this story as discussion on MFG's stories always seem to generate a lot of thought-provoking comments.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Sooo sorry to be so late replying - stoopid real life...

It's interesting the way reading the story without the prequel, or reading it the "wrong" way round makes such a difference to our feelings about the story. I didn't read Devices and Desires for ages, because the gay cruise thing just didn't work for me, but having read it with the prequel first this time I find it absolutely makes sense...

I quite like what milomaus says below: it really hit me hard. But that´s what I love about her stories, the lads are real, with all their fears and feelings and clamming up, disregarding the other. Totally human. It's very much the humanity of B/D that I like, and so I can live with the sad endings too - and then so much better when there's a sequel that "fixes" things... *g*

MFG does provoke strong feelings, doesn't she! In my humble opinion, that's one of the things that makes her such a good writer... *g*

[milomaus.livejournal.com]

The first time I read "A Summer´s Outing" it really hit me hard. But that´s what I love about her stories, the lads are real, with all their fears and feelings and clamming up, disregarding the other. Totally human.
And then there was "Devices and Desires" and even though they kinda talk too much, it all feels right and falls into place. This story needs that much talk, and if I like them reading each others minds, it´s just too bad, sometimes things need to be said out loud. That´s a thing they had to learn, and being older lads they did marvellous.

I love to feel and see stories, the voices are important, too, but more in the way what they say. or don´t say. Which is pretty much laid out for the reader with Glasgow´s story because she let´s us see inside Doyle. So yes, it devinetly works for me!
I like older lads, but I just can´t picture them like that at all, so I pretty much like the way she paints them, even though I still see the younger lads...(Does that make sense?)

Her way of writing the lads is spot on in my opinion. With her harsh way of picturing them, she´s totally canon.
And because I can´t start to think of all the ways their love would go, I love reading all these stories, to find as many ways as possible.
Ways I can agree with, like here, sometimes ways I disagree, but hey, that´s just me.

Usually I like open minded lads better, when they´re not thinking about being gay or not gay or bi, when they just hop into bed together fuck the consequences, but since I have absolutely no clue how it works in real life, both sides work for me. The secrecy or the carelessness. I can imagine both.

I like the way you recced this story, I always admire how much you write, just this tiny comment cost me almost two hours, though I have to admit that RL distracted me quite fiercely.
Picking out sentences is so lovely in a recce and all your questions, and the way you ask them make me think you really wanna know.

I do hope I made at least a tiny bit of sense, otherwise just ignore it. *g*

[shooting2kill.livejournal.com]

I agree with so much of what you say here, but you've expressed it far better than I could

Usually I like open minded lads better, when they´re not thinking about being gay or not gay or bi, when they just hop into bed together fuck the consequences

I totally agree. That's how I would see them consummating their relationship and I think it's how my favourite writers tend to handle it too. They tend not to go into all the ins and outs of being gay or not gay etc but it's just accepted that they feel something very, very strong for each other, something above and beyond a normal working partnership and it doesn't have to be analysed to death or labelled.

but since I have absolutely no clue how it works in real life, both sides work for me. The secrecy or the carelessness. I can imagine both.

Me, too. In fact a good writer helps me to imagine it.

[milomaus.livejournal.com]

Thanks a ton for your comment!
I am so pleased, because I admire you for your skills to take relevant passages of stories and match them so wonderfully perfect to pics. And YOU agree with stuff I wrote down half asleep...HEEEEEEEE! You made my day!

[shooting2kill.livejournal.com]

Thank you and you're very welcome!

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Sorry, I promise I wasn't ignoring you, it was just real life getting in the way... especially because I very much like the way you wrote about it back! I'm with you all the way about reading the lads as human, with all the flaws and sorrows that involves. It's not that I don't like a happy pink ending, but they're so much sweeter with just a bit of salt-tear to set it all off... *g*

Usually I like open minded lads better, when they´re not thinking about being gay or not gay or bi, when they just hop into bed together fuck the consequences
Yes! That works best for me too, though I'm sure there are people who angst over every emotional decision (especially if we're to believe the soap operas... well... *g*) But fuck the consequences is so much more about passion, and that's what I like... *g*

[ladyhawke2.livejournal.com]

“I can't for the life of me remember who it was who said "I like this fic but I won't have a chance to rec it", but whoever it was, this post is for you! I hope it matches what you saw in the fic, at least a bit.”

That was me, and apologies for posting so late, I can’t always get to the computer. Your summary was much better than anything I could have done, so thanks for that!

I absolutely *love* “Devices and Desires”. One of the reasons is that I read “ A Summers Outing” first and found it to be one of the saddest, most depressing fics I’ve ever read, but also (for me) totally believable, and one of those few fics that stayed in my head for weeks after reading it, so it was difficult to try and pretend it just didn’t that the sad ending exist. So, when I read the sequel, “Devices and Desires”, I as so pleased to find a resolution to all that heartbreak that I was happy to suspend disbelief in a few places. I did actually find myself shaking my head and wondering if MFG’s writing was really good enough to have me believing the gay cruise thing, but at that stage I really didn’t care. I can accept people taking liberties with a plot far more easily than I can accept them taking liberties with (my version of) the characters.

“Doyle is still trying to stop himself thinking about Bodie, because Bodie ran off and left him a long time ago.”

I love the way she described how Doyles life had gone since Bodie left, the emptiness of it, and I also liked how Cowley got to see the results of what he’d done, and how he and Doyle had become friends over time. I found that touching.

“What I like about Glasgow's writing - and perhaps what some readers don't like - is that we feel every nuance of the lads' feelings as we read along. She doesn't just tell us that Doyle was angry, we share with him every stroke of movement as he tries to deal with it, every second of Doyle's breakneck rollercoaster thoughts, just as if they're our own and it's all happening to us.”

That’s what I like best about her writing, the way she can make me feel everything. I need to feel a story and this one actually hurt to read. Much as I love happy endings and fluff there is a part of me that wants an author to pull me through the story with the characters, and when the writing is as good as MFGs I don’t have much choice in the matter, I’m right in there with them.

I thought that both characters were very true to how I see them, and although Bodie’s alcoholism was unexpected she did a great job of making it convincing. I really, really didn’t want to believe that Bodie hit his wife, but unfortunately I did believe it. That bit from “Close Quarters” where he hits Julia is something I’ve taken out of my personal canon, along with the lines about women’s lib and ‘cahonas’ (sp?) on top of the bus in “First Night”. It makes me shudder to hear it and I don’t think Bodie would have said it, so I just pretend it never happened. I remember watching “Everest Was Also Conquered” with a friend in the late 90s and our jaws hit the floor when Bodie made his comment to the effect that it must have been hell for women with those kind of tendencies in those days; it gave me a real admiration for what was under that Macho surface, and I just can’t believe that the same man would then say what he did on the top of that bus. But all that being said, unfortunately I did believe that Bodie was violent towards his wife in this story, because of the way MFG had written his emotional state and his alcoholism. Also, the way he spoke about losing his sons was believable and so very heartbreaking. ctd.

[ladyhawke2.livejournal.com]

Ctd. (It wouldn't let me post the lot together.)

I’d love a sequal and would be quite happy for MFG to write it, but I’m not foolish enough to expect another happy ending. Bodie running CI5 with Doyle is completely unfeasible, we have been told of all the years of work that it took Doyle to get to the top and Bodie couldn’t just walk in to that, but I could see him taking charge of training, and answering to Doyle. However, I also think he would have to start as a regular trainer and work his way up. We aren’t told what kind of work he’s doing but I think it likely that he is near the top in it, I got the impression that he was self employed?

Thanks for reccing this, it’s been great to read all the comments and have an excuse to re-read the story.

[ladyhawke2.livejournal.com]

Apologies for the typos in the first paragraph - one day I'll learn not to cut and paste at this hour of the night :(

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Apologies back, for not answering sooner - real life in my way...

And of course it was you who recced the story to be recced! *g* And thank you, it was a good choice.

I love the way she described how Doyles life had gone since Bodie left, the emptiness of it, and I also liked how Cowley got to see the results of what he’d done, and how he and Doyle had become friends over time. I found that touching.
Yes! You could really feel Doyle's emptiness, couldn't you... Sad, but so true... and the fact that Bodie's absence made him feel like that has a romance all of its own...

I need to feel a story
Yes! It takes a good writer to do that, and MFG is definitely one - I don't think there's a single story of hers that I don't feel...

and ‘cahonas’ (sp?) on top of the bus in “First Night”. It makes me shudder to hear it and I don’t think Bodie would have said it, so I just pretend it never happened. I remember watching “Everest Was Also Conquered” with a friend in the late 90s and our jaws hit the floor when Bodie made his comment to the effect that it must have been hell for women with those kind of tendencies in those days; it gave me a real admiration for what was under that Macho surface, and I just can’t believe that the same man would then say what he did on the top of that bus
I'd forgotten about cajones, even though it gives me the same wince as well. I think Bodie is a man of his times, and it's just taking him a bit longer for some of those times to be swept out of his system. So yeah, we see him hit Julia, and talk about cajones, and black people earning more than he did, and... oh, I'm sure there's something else about women too that I always notice - oh, in Female Factor when Doyle points out to him that "hookers are women too, you know, some of them are nice"...

But there are other corners of him too, as you say - the way he thinks about the women in Everest, and has sympathy for Frances Cottingham, and is rather brotherly towards Susan Whos-it in Cry Wolf - and I'm sure there are other times I've noticed too. He does actually feel for people when he remembers that they're people and not just "the other", and that's the Bodie that I can appreciate - a man who might still be working it out, but has the heart and the ability to work it out.

Also, the way he spoke about losing his sons was believable and so very heartbreaking.
Yes! It really was... I'm always rather conflicted about the lads having children, perhaps because it gives them priorities other than each other, and I felt that conflict here, but it was sadder for it...

We aren’t told what kind of work he’s doing but I think it likely that he is near the top in it, I got the impression that he was self employed?
I'm not sure - I think my impression is that he's effectively been working as a mercenary again, albeit legally in some way - advising or organising private security perhaps, or carrying it out himself. I didn't really imagine self-employed as such, but probably contract work at least... I'm not sure how close to the top he could have been though, if he'd had serious emotional and drinking problems... which again tugs at my heart strings... I can't imagine he'd be able to work for CI5 again either, with an injunction against him, but perhaps he could - there was Mad Tommy, after all...

Something else I love about MFG - look at all the stories we have floating through our heads now, about our lads, from her story! *g*

[constant-muse.livejournal.com]

“ A Summers Outing” ... one of the saddest, most depressing fics I’ve ever read, to quote ladyhawke2. I believe it was indeed the first fic I ever read - the sensuous opening scene was such a revelation, but after that it got worse and worse. I'm with those who commented earlier who find MFG too hard. (not very thinky, sorry)

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

I'm always quite surprised that you don't like M. Fae! I'm not sure I think of her as thinky specifically, but she's definitely intensely feely, which of course can be hard... *g*