Reading Room Theme IV - Older Lads Fic

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Sadly, only one other person suggested a fic to discuss for an Older Lads Fic Reading Room, so the current schedule is:

Thurs 16th June - merentha13 - The Story of My Life by PJ
Thurs 23rd June - milomaus - iLads by AngelCI5
Thurs 30th June - siskiou - Two on a Treasure Island by Slantedlight
Thurs 7th July - byslantedlight - Devices and Desires by M.Fae Glasgow
Thurs 14th July - starlite876 - Fire Held High and Away by Miriam Heddy

Alternatively, if anyone would like to rec/review any other Older Lads fic then please comment below.

In the meantime - I'm getting the impression that perhaps there's not interest in carrying on the fic discussions after all? So a quick poll:

[Poll #1751643]

Any other suggestions etc, please comment below...

Comments

Mea Culpa

[franciskerst.livejournal.com]

I am truly interested in the reading Room as in the challenges but have been distracted by several RL occupations (and a little by writing too) those last times. I intend to make up for my failings soon. Keep on with the great job!

Re: Mea Culpa

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

I get the impression that lots of people are interested in theory but that "real life" is being a bit of a pain for almost everyone this year. Hopefully there'll be enough interest in participating to keep things going until "almost everyone" is freer to join in - we'll have to see, I guess!

Re: Mea Culpa

[golden-bastet.livejournal.com]

Maybe a hiatus over the summer? I'm trying to think of ways to get more people involved in commenting.

Re: Mea Culpa

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure that summer means less time to comment for everyone - I know empty_mirrors and I tried to work out whether there were times of year that people did or didn't comment more often (and times of week/day etc!) and we couldn't see any pattern to it at all. Some summers were really quiet - others were really active and busy, Pros-wise! And of course Brit/European/American summers are winter down in Australia, and there are lots of Australians around too, so... (Then again, maybe you just meant " a hiatus" and the summer bit was just cos it's summer... *g*)

There does seem to be something funny about commenting lately though - and by "lately" I mean for months past! A few people have noticed that there's often much less feedback to stories these days - which will be a disaster if it stops people writing Pros altogether! It seems to be pretty busy "rl"-wise for people this year, and then of course people are also splitting their attention between more comms now, and writing their Big Bangs... It might just be that Pros fandom is spread more thinly these days... But yeah, if you can think of some way to get more people actively involved that'd be great! *g*

[constant-muse.livejournal.com]

I voted 'yes' to the first question because I like to see all sorts of Pros comm activity happening.

I didn't want to vote 'yes' or 'no' to the second. I'm more of a 'maybe', or 'I will comment if I can ever find time to read the fic, but don't feel able to do reccs for the moment'.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Lol - the second question isn't a commitment thing, we all have stuff that keeps us away from posts and discussions and so on now and then, and that's understandable. It's more about finding out whether there's enough interest that there's likely to be at least some participation in the discussions - there's nothing more demoralising for people than to go to the effort of reccing and posting, and then have no one at all respond! For example, as I look at the current results (it's only been up a few minutes, mind!) - three people want to see the discussions continue, but only one of those people says they'll actually participate - which doesn't leave much discussion for the others to enjoy watching, or Pros comm activity actually happening, so...

There seems to be an awful lot of "real life" going on for people at the moment - I thought it was worth finding out whether people felt able to join in now and then, or whether things should be put on hold until perhaps there's more participation possible. I didn't give "maybe" as an option for either cos that's kind of a polite way out for respondants, but it doesn't actually help in a practical kind of way!

[heliophile-oxon.livejournal.com]

I should come clean and admit that I'd enjoy reading recs and comments but if I'm honest with myself I likely wouldn't say very much at the moment - I know me, I'd want to and then stuff would happen and ...

RL is not behaving itself as nicely as I'd like and it's been getting me down a bit at times - no excuse! - but I don't want to suggest and then not deliver, you know? :(

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

RL really isn't great for alot of people right now, and I think it's got lots of people down, which is horrid... I hope it gets better for you soon!

Nearly half the people who've responded so far have effectively said they wouldn't join in - I have to take null responses as negative - which is a shame. I can't always join in myself, but I'll try when I can - as I know you do! It's just knowing the balance so that people aren't discouraged from taking part ever again because there's no response to their posts - I figured it was worth finding out whether there was active interest/intent just now!

[siskiou.livejournal.com]

Can I pick one of the stories for the 30th?
I will be free to do a lot more reading once school is out next week, but haven't decided on a particular story yet.
Can't do the 23rd, because I'm not sure what day I have to take that dreaded test, but know it's before the 30th.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

You certainly can, I've put your name down for it, and you can choose a story some time before then! *g*

And good luck with the test...

[siskiou.livejournal.com]

Thanks and thanks! :)
I will report in when I've decided on one!

[milomaus.livejournal.com]

Duh, what happened to my comment then?

I suggested ILads by AngelCI5.

I volunteer for the 23rd. *g*

[tango65.livejournal.com]

I can do Old Fears and Temptations. Its a good story and I'm flexible on date.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

We've got volunteers for this month now, but if you fancy going through into July, you could have a go on July 14th? Is that any good, or would you like to hang on for a new theme? And thanks! *g*

[tango65.livejournal.com]

Sure can, whatever you need.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Excellent question - I remember getting notification of your comment, and going and adding iLads to the list, but I can't find the comment any more... Thanks for offering to rec - I've added you to the list! (Good rec for discussion too, I reckon... *g*

[milomaus.livejournal.com]

I can still see it, but it says there´s only one comment, even though I see both....funny thing.*shoulder shrug*

Anyway, I thought I just suggested to put it on the list. I meant to rec "Devices and Desires" on the 23rd, cause I just couldn´t decide which story to rec.
But this is absolutely fine, M. Fea Glasgows stories tend to be so multi layered, that I´m quite sure I do miss some of the meanings.

I am looking forward to reccing "ILads"! *vbg* *huge one, to be correct*

And thanks for all your efforts!!!

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

I bet I'm just looking in the wrong place... Aha, I found it - you were down as spam because it was just a link, but I've moved you now... Sorry, I should have checked that before, but I'd forgotten all about the lj change.

And yeah, I thought you were adding it to the list at first too, then your next post made me think you were volunteering to rec it, and now... eep! But yeay, we'll keep it all as it is then, cos that way we get an extra rec! *g*

And thank you! *g*

[sunray45.livejournal.com]

I love reading all the stories listed, but I'm absolute rubbish when it comes to commenting - never know what to say.

Please keep it going, as there are stories I've read and forgotten, and stories that are new to me.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

but I'm absolute rubbish when it comes to commenting - never know what to say.
You're not the only person to say that, lots of people have told me they never quite know what to say... Actually even a simple "thank you for the rec" is enough to show people that their efforts have at least been read. That's the thing really - when there's no feedback to something, it looks as if no one's read it, and the author wonders why they bothered - and doesn't next time so we'll end up with no recs/reviews at all! I know lots of people do like reading recs (including me!) even when they haven't got anything specific to say about a particular story, but just letting the post-er know the effort was appreciated is a good thing!

[golden-bastet.livejournal.com]

I do try to read at least some of the recs, but like many others RL is a little tough right now (and most of my free time is spent with the Big Bang).

I tend not to comment because a lot of the other participants are light years beyond what I'd say! Poor excuse, and I'll try to be more involved if it will keep things going.

[siskiou.livejournal.com]

I often feel that anything I have to say about a story is shallow and irrelevant, when reading other people's well worded and thought out replies. 8)

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

I'm going to post this same response to 3 people who've commented here so far... *g*
You're not the only person to say that, lots of people have told me they never quite know what to say... Actually even a simple "thank you for the rec" is enough to show people that their efforts have at least been read. That's the thing really - when there's no feedback to something, it looks as if no one's read it, and the author wonders why they bothered - and doesn't next time so we'll end up with no recs/reviews at all! I know lots of people do like reading recs (including me!) even when they haven't got anything specific to say about a particular story, but just letting the post-er know the effort was appreciated is a good thing!

[siskiou.livejournal.com]

That's certainly true!
One thing that sometimes annoys me is that I see a post I want to reply to, but don't have time, and later it's off the page, I can't remember what comm it was in, or if it was someone's personal journal, and it takes a lot of rummaging around to find it again.
Is there an easy way in LJ to put some posts aside to come back to later?

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

and later it's off the page, I can't remember what comm it was in, or if it was someone's personal journal
There should be a few ways to find the posts again.

1) Are you looking at these through the Friends Page on your lj? If so:
- you can set your Friends Page to show more entries. The default, I think, is 10, but I have mine set to 20 and you can set 50 or 100 if you like!
- you know you can "go earlier" on your Friends Page, right? There'll be a button at the bottom to let you do that, so you can just keep scrolling backwards until you find the post again

2) the "Communities List" is a new-ish page that lj gives us now - it's our Friends Page, but only showing the communities that we watch. You should find it in your header, and most likely the comm posts will be visible on the first page much longer than individual pages.

3) You can track entries in a community, so that you get an email notification when someone posts something - hang onto the notification until you've had a chance to reply, and then you'll always have the link back!

I hope that helps! I think some of those may be paid account features, but there should be at least a couple of them that you can use!

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

I tend not to comment because a lot of the other participants are light years beyond what I'd say!
I'm going to post this same response to 3 people who've commented here so far... *g*
You're not the only person to say that, lots of people have told me they never quite know what to say... Actually even a simple "thank you for the rec" is enough to show people that their efforts have at least been read. That's the thing really - when there's no feedback to something, it looks as if no one's read it, and the author wonders why they bothered - and doesn't next time so we'll end up with no recs/reviews at all! I know lots of people do like reading recs (including me!) even when they haven't got anything specific to say about a particular story, but just letting the post-er know the effort was appreciated is a good thing!

[miwahni.livejournal.com]

Is that enough, then? Because if I wasn't expected to turn up with detailed analysis in hand, then I most definitely want it to continue.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Well obviously The Reading Room was for fic discussion rather than just recommendations, and if no one wants to discuss the stories then it'll just fade out, but I think it's hard putting things out into a vacuum, and it's always good to know that people have read something, even if they can't or don't want to comment further on it. So even if you don't want to get into discussion yourself, I reckon it's good for Pros-y morale just to acknowledge that you've read a rec and perhaps agree or disagree or that you'll add it to your list or thanks for the reminder, or whatever... I know when I post recs (or anything really) and get absolutely no feedback at all, it makes me wonder why I bothered in the first place, and other people have said that to me too, so... If we want recs and other posts to read, I think even the quickest reply in a comment is good for ensuring they continue rather than die away... *g* I know I need to try harder sometimes, too!

"I liked this too" or "not really my cup of tea" is enough to help people trying to decide whether or not to read a fic, too, so that's always good...

[firlefanzine.livejournal.com]

Maybe we should go back to the roots?
Make it weekly again and with reminder on Tuesday.
Maybe that routine would make it more part of our fandom-life?

The way it is at the moment, I often simply forget about the RR.
And that's a pity, because I'm reading Pros anyway! So why not the story for the reading room? And one or two words of comment at least should be possible to share!?
(For the 'Big Bang time' we could as well take some of those stories, maybe always the one which is published for example on Sunday before the Reading Room...)

It's a pity that there are so many platforms(Yahoo, LJ, DW...), communities(with varying followers...) and 'friends-circles'(in the newsletter I often stumble over friends-locked entries with Pros content, which are no longer posted in one of the communities).

Would be nice that at least for story discussion we would meet!

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

I suppose it depends how individuals organise their fandom life - mine tends to revolve around what I see in my flist, so just scrolling through it reminds me of events like RR etc. But then it helps to have a pre-RR reminder post, for example... *g*

It would be nice to having Reading Room back as a regular thing - I think it stopped partly because participation fell, and partly, of course, because Jaycat wanted to move on and no one wanted to take it over as a regular commitment. It is a serious commitment of time to do the organising of a regular feature like this, and I think it very much depends on people's participation. If you're working hard on something, but not getting much feedback, then it's easy to get discouraged and decide not to bother doing it. As you say, just a couple of words to say "thanks" show that people are reading and appreciating all the hard work! We can see how we get on over the next month or so, now that we've got a regular schedule for that.

The Big Bang thing could be an idea - but we'll run into something which sometimes puts people off commenting/discussing stories, which is that the authors are live and active in Pros at the moment. Not everyone wants to run the risk of upsetting someone by critiquing a story in front of the author. I tend to think that once you've made a story public, it's out of your control, and you have to accept the bad with the good, but I'm also still reluctant to potentially upset people in our community by saying I don't like a story in public! And if the stories aren't properly discussed, then we might just as well leave complimentary feedback to the Big Bang post itself... It's a tricky one - we could see what people think...

It is a shame that Pros has been splintered off into so many new comms and other forums, especially when they're just repeating or echoing what goes on somewhere else. I know what you mean about flocked entries too - though I understand some people are worried about their own security/publicity for whatever personal reason (rather like the original writers) there seems to be more and more a tendency to lock entries as a matter of course, even sometimes in the communities which are supposed to be about sharing!

[cornishcat.livejournal.com]

I read a great deal of Pros fic but I can't always offer any profound reason why I really enjoyed a particular story or, alternatively, why I didn't.

We obviously do have a tendency to pick favourites for the Reading Room, which is good, but thankfully we don't all have the same taste. I do find it difficult though, offering alternative opinions when people have been kind (and brave) enough to post their efforts for everyone to scrutinize. If you haven't got anything nice to say then maybe you should keep quiet is perhaps an easy way to avoid confrontation but it doesn't lend itself to a good debate. However, what can you assume if all the responses you receive to your posting are thanks for the rec?

So, what am I saying here then? I suppose it's simply that I really should make the effort to contribute more, otherwise people will become despondent and if interest is lost then we risk losing a lot more.

Thanks for the kick up the arse, BSL! *g*

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

I've got to admit I'm not often particularly profound when it comes to reccing stories myself... I might get all deep and whiffly in the chat as I think out loud, but thinking about it from cold is a different thing, I think...

If you haven't got anything nice to say then maybe you should keep quiet is perhaps an easy way to avoid confrontation but it doesn't lend itself to a good debate.
I do get this, and I subscribe to it myself quite often (believe it or not *g*) but on the other hand a discussion is a discussion, as you say, and sometimes that means being critical. When everyone just says nice things (or if they just said horrid things, which I've never actually seen happen!) then it's feedback, but not really discussion... Though it's possible to discuss just the positive aspects of a story, I guess... But then I always think that if no one ever points out things that need critiquing, they can never be improved... We only learn at school by seeing what our mistakes are, and being shown how we can fix them, so...

That said, it was me who suggested in the past that Reading Room should try and focus on fic written by authors who aren't currently active on lj so that commenters wouldn't feel constrained to be polite rather than offering constructive criticism too - and I was voted down! *g*

I also tend to think that if you're putting something into the public gaze, then you have to be prepared for all feedback that might come, and that might be negative as well as positive. We really shouldn't expect to have our cake and eat it, I guess...

But yeay for everyone contributing more anyway, in whatever way they're most comfortable!

[merentha13.livejournal.com]

I'd hate to see the Reading Room abandoned... I got my start in the Pro's fandom reading a rec (it was at a different com, but it got me interested!) I found the Reading Room and used that to find different stories and authors that appealed to me. It was through those stories that I got to know the lads. (I wasn't able to actually see any episodes until about six months later!)

The earlier discussions were a bit deeper and lengthier than the recent ones, but its still fun to talk Pro's with other fans. So the Reading Room is special to me. I enjoy reading and writing recs (I'm hoping you aren't all sick of my recs by now! *g*) I'll second BSL's comments that
"Actually even a simple "thank you for the rec" is enough to show people that their efforts have at least been read. That's the thing really..."
So I've had my say..now I better get started writing...I have a rec due on Thursday!

[margaret-r.livejournal.com]

I enjoy the Reading Room recs and the discussions very much but often haven't had a lot of time for either reading or commenting, but it has been the main source for me of finding good Prosfic, somthing I'm very grateful for:)

I would like to become more involved though so am hoping that once I've got my life in order a bit more I'll be able to participate and maybe even try my hand at doing some rec'ing in the future. (sorry, I forgot to click on the "yes" in second part of the poll before submitting).

[moonlightmead.livejournal.com]

You can't start talking about winding down the Reading Room! I've only just made my account!

Seriously, after finding the Circuit Archive, and then the Proslib CD, I have been reading avidly in my minimal spare time and counting the days until June, when I would be able to dip my toes in the water of actually taking part in Pros fandom. June is here, I now have spare time for the next few months, and I very much hoped to join in. Although I'm very nervous about this. I have never been part of any slash - or gen - community or fandom online. I'm used to mailing lists and email, not Livejournal and Yahoo and Dreamwidth. (The first slash I read was B7, years ago, when you emailed someone to get a password to an ftp site, and that was the entire interaction with other people I got.) And I don't know what's appropriate. It feels supremely cheeky to introduce myself to a long-standing community and promptly start to be critical, especially when I have put no fiction up myself.

However, I promise: if I have not broken my shiny new LiveJournal account by then (and two days is ample time for me to do that), I shall comment.

[firlefanzine.livejournal.com]

"You can't start talking about winding down the Reading Room! I've only just made my account!"
Good argument! :-)

Welcome!

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Lol - and welcome to your account! *g*

It looks like The Reading Room is safe for a while yet - we've got recs planned up until the 14th July now, and everyone's sounding keen again, so... cross fingers! But I like your promise... *g*

As far as being critical is concerned - as long as it's constructive, analytical criticism, then why not? If we don't keep an eye out for the bad side as well as the good side of things, then nothing ever changes, and we can never learn from our mistakes. Flaming and trolling and the like is completely different of course - but you don't give me that impression so far... *g* And the other thing is that old chestnut about one girl's meat being another girl's poison - things I'm critical of are things that other people adore (eg, over-sentimentality in Prosfic) and there's almost always someone who'll come back with the other side of the coin. I reckon that as long as we all realise we each speak for ourselves, and no one takes things over-personally in a discussion, then it should all work out well! (I imagine the things that are appropriate here are probably the same things that are appropriate on the lists etc - but feel free to ask if you're ever not sure!)

[starlite876.livejournal.com]

If you are still looking for volunteers to review Older Lads stories I would be happy to review "Fire Held High And Away" by Miriam Heddy in July (whenever the next free Thursday is available in July).

I have found many of my favourite Pros stories from the Reading Room recs so I would hate to see the Reading Room abandoned.

And a big thank you BSL for the updated list of Older Lads stories.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Lol - we've a veritable richness of recs coming up now! Why not extend, that's what I say - so I shall add you to the list! You'll be up on Thursday 14th July... *g*