CI5 hq

Yes, that's totally the plan - I think we should do all the themes people suggest, I just figured this time we could vote to choose which one. Maybe next time I'll get dictatorly and just say "This month is..." based on one of the suggestions... *g* Actually it would have been clever to do that this time, then we would have had today for story suggestions, and started on Thursday... ah well - hey-ho, I never claimed to be clever! *g*

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golden-bastet.livejournal.com

I agree - any of these would work for me, too. %^D

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As I said above, we'll do them all eventually - this was just to see which theme people fancied for this month! *g*

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I confess, I voted for 'guilty pleasures' because I'm curious to know what other fans' Pros guilty pleasures are. However, I also has a sad that stories 'that make you think' have the least votes so far. Is it because there is a lack of those, or is it because readers in general don't find them as interesting as Bodie and Doyle doing the horizontal mambo? *Grin*

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heliophile-oxon.livejournal.com

I deliberately voted before looking at any of the comments (I knew they would probably give me ideas, and I'm easily swayed where there's so much Pros-y goodness around *g*) and as it happens I went for the "make you think" option - there's just too much about CI5 and the 70s that cries out for it. Not that this in any way prevents me from enjoying our lads, of course - in fact I think this is indeed one set of options where it's solid win all the way down!

I have one suggestion for the "think" category - a very short short (possibly even a drabble or double drabble) by kindkit called Duty. If only I remembered where to find it...

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Heee - it is easy to be swayed, isn't it, and particularly when we are going to get around to all the themes eventually. I suspect it won't be Stories to make us think this month - but hopefully you'll have found the one you're thinking of by then... *g*

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I'm gonna Google that story and see if I can find it too. Thanks for the recommendation!

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This category is of course my choice; I don't stop asking for them, to no avail so far. If there are more of them that I already recced in

crack_van, I'd really, really wish someone could point out them to me. I suppose the "Cowley centered" stories should logically have an affinity with those kinds of topics. (note that I don't ask for Cowley/someone, that's not the point here).

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Lol - actually it wasn't your choice, it was my choice, but I had a feeling you might be in strong agreement! *vbg*

I know I've asked you before, but I still find

crack_van a real bugger to navigate - could you link me to a list of just your recs at Crackvan, so that I can see which stories you're talking about above? I can get to a list of all Pros recs, but not to specific reccers in a particular fandom - do you have a way to do that? (Ultimately I'll list them all at palelyloitering.com too, but I've not done that yet... maybe tonight!)

I don't think it's a given that Cowley-centric stories will be stories that make you think, though they may be, and I think there are a large number of B/D stories that make you think without having Cowley in them particularly - though he is often used to precipitate conflict, it's true... Now maybe that would be an interesting topic for discussion, come to think of it... *g*

You know, not all recs and reviews and discussions at this comm need to be via the Thursday Reading Room posts either - the comm was active for many years before The Reading Room began! Maybe we could have a separate rec day for Stories that make us think - I know I read more than two Pros stories a week anyway... *g*

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I don't think it's possible to find only

franciskerst's recommendations at

crack_van without manually browsing through the entire Pros rec list there. One way I can think of is if

franciskerst tags her name onto all her recs there, but I have no idea if that community allows that.

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Well, I've certainly never found a way myself, but she's directed me to a list there before, when I've asked about specific titles, so I'm hopeful that she might have one!

It'd be nice if they did have a tag-by-reccer actually, so that you could follow people whose tastes you know coincide with yours, and avoid those you know don't, for instance... Of course that's the trouble with recs, just because one person likes them doesn't mean everyone will - there's fic recced at Crackvan, for instance, that I can barely even see Bodie/Doyle in, never mind hear them in the dialogue etc - and of course there are stories that I like about which those reccers would no doubt say the same!

Hey-ho...

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Ah, the perils of fanfic recs. *nods sagely in agreement*

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I wrote my comment this morning in a hurry and had no time to be very precise or explicit. Of course, I don't deny that B/D stories can be very thoughtful in many matters (not limited to the relationship, I hope) but I just assume that an author who choose Cowley as the prominent character in her story is not writing pure romance but has probably in mind some topic directly related to the missions assigned to CI5 as its main focus, and this is of special interest to me. It doesn't oppose a B/D relationship in the background or taken as a secondary interest; in my point of view, that would make it more realistic and thus more moving (I am basically an horribly realistic-minded person).

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As for

crack_van, it's the same bugger for me too! I must have a direct link to my recs somewhere...but don't remember where! Anyway I don't think they are the most appropriate examples to illustrate my point: they are only what I found at the time and anyway, among them, many are about my, then, newly discovered interest in the B/C pairing. If I had to mention a model story for my search now, it would be "Festival of Lights by Dorinda" or "Living with the Consequences" by Brenda K.

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Ah, bum! Never mind - one day I'll go back to the beginning of the Pros recs, and link them all to palelyloitering.com!

I don't remember the two fics you've mentioned in detail - though I remember the general plot of Dorinda's stories. I'll try and have a quick re-read tomorrow so I can think of them in light of the discussion!

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Drats, and here I thought I'd hopefully find a story about Cowley's young, wild days as a can-can dancer!

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And why not a story about a young kilt-wearing Cowley taking part in a competition of Scottish dances? If they were men-only Scottish dances (I think something of the sort does exist) it even could be slash.

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I have to admit that I was disappointed you didn't vote for Stories that make you think after our last chat here! It is sad that most people seem to prefer other types of stories (or at least that's one way of interpreting the results so far), but I think that's borne out by attitudes in fandom in general. Quite often, when people are asked similar or related questions, they say that they use fandom as an "escape" or their "happy place", and they specifically want to read stories that mean they don't have to think...

It'd be an interesting discussion though, if you wanted to post about it... (and please do!) *g*

We'll definitely do a month of "stories that make you think" though, because there are those of us out here who enjoy them (and not voting for that theme doesn't mean people aren't interested at all - as your own vote demonstrates!)

Go on though - go and post the question... *g*

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I am disappointed at myself for not voting that one, too. I think my brain was still in perv mode from doing all those manips of Bodie and the moment I saw the third option, my brain just went, "GUILTY PLEASURES! *click*" And then I saw the fourth option, and my brain went, "... damnit, Gideon, this is exactly why we need more thinking stories." *lol*

Quite often, when people are asked similar or related questions, they say that they use fandom as an "escape" or their "happy place", and they specifically want to read stories that mean they don't have to think...

An interesting point! Me, I have no shame in saying that when I read Pros fics, I usually want to read hot Bodie/Doyle sexy times. *evil grin* But I also like well-written, 'thinking' stories because that's what I really enjoy reading for non-fanfiction material. If there are Pros stories like that, I certainly want to read them!

I've noticed that Pros fics tend to be rather ... depressing in general. Lots of it seem to be about the lads hurting each other emotionally or going through awful times, often without a genuinely happy ending. Do fans consider such stories their 'happy place'? :P I love me some angst now and then, but I don't feel happy after reading such stories.

And sure, I don't mind posting the question at all! I'll have to wait until LJ is stable again though. It's been crazy since yesterday, and I keep getting error pages. Blah.

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I know, poor old lj's under attack... she can beat them, she's strong! We can blog anything we like! *g*

I read fic just as I read other "ordinary" stories - sometimes I'm reading for one reason, sometimes for another. Sometimes you just want something sexy, others something thoughtful...

I've noticed that Pros fics tend to be rather ... depressing in general.
Wow, d'you think so?! I have to say that I've never thought that, ever - there are sad fics of course, and serious ones, but I'd never have described the entire body of writing as "depressing in general"! And the vast majority, I'd say, has a happy ending... But perhaps we define "depressing" and "happy ending" differently? I think Pros as a tv series is realistic, and that's one reason I like it. I can't be done with Starsky and Hutch, for instance, because it's ultimately too cartoon-like - I can't see them existing and behaving that way as real people. I can absolutely see canon Bodie and Doyle existing as real people though, and they're living in the real world too, where (as Cowley says) the villains don't wear black hats, nor the good guys white ones. And "our side" doesn't always win.

So... what stories are you thinking of that would represent Prosfic as being "depressing in general"?

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*lol* Okay, maybe 'depressing' was too strong a word to use. It's more like ... I sometimes notice that the lads are written in situations where there's a lot of emotional hurting of each other going on, and you can tell the writer is writing the story for the sake of the lads emotionally/psychologically hurting for long periods of time more than an actual storyline where Bodie and Doyle behave like the professional adults they are. Does that make sense?

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siskiou.livejournal.com

It *would* be an interesting discussion!
Personally, I think an older lads story, or a first meet or really any story at all could potentially also be one to fall into the "making you think" category, or vice versa.
"Making you think" is a very broad thing. Think about what? *g*
I wonder if someone could post an example of a story they'd definitely feel would fall into this category.
Are they supposed to tackle political, social etc. issues or could it be something much more simple?

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Well, that's something too - everyone might define "thinking" differently! I suppose I was thinking of stories like Redemption by Kate Maclean, where we're made to think what if things didn't according to the rules of romance - or Forever True by Elizabeth Holden, or... The Snow Man with the Dark Coat by Castalia perhaps... Stories where we have to consider morals and ethics and their truly messy nature... Oh, the one of M.Fae Glasgow's, where Bodie's so against homosexuality that he won't talk to Doyle when Doyle's caught cottaging - and of course Doyle has always been in love with him, I think... Stories that are perhaps uncomfortable to us, because they don't follow "the rules" of slashfic...

But as you say, someone else might not think that counts at all, and might have a completely different definition of thinking! And older lads story might fall into that category - but it might easily not... *g*

Hmmn - I guess I could always ask for suggestions/discussion for a "Stories that make you think" storylist...

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Well, yes! Political, social and moral issues for me, please! set in a totally realistic background; built on a tightly woven plot, having complex and vivid secondary characters, not black and white but of every shade of gray; calling for debates about religion, philosophy, science, power: the most difficult, the most controversial, the better...

And no, I am not, in any way, capable of achieving it myself (that's why I'm asking it from others!)

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You might be interested in Gideon's question about this, which for some reason she's posted to

the_safehouse instead of here!

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Not wanting to look too pedantic but my misfortune is I usually find intellectual debates very entertaining and romances rather boring (at least when reduced to the romance material itself).

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I'm not sure I'd describe that as a misfortune exactly - and there have been more intellectual debates around in Pros, at this comm and others! I hope you saw my note about Gideon's post at Safehouse - I think her point there is that she doesn't want to talk about romance stories, but about what we've been calling "think-y" stories. (And apologies for the language, I was being flippant as I often am in lj, and meant of course thoughtful stories.) That said, her definition of thoughtful seems to be rather different to mine - it'd be good to have your input there too!

And you know, you're always welcome to make "intellectual debate" type posts of questions and debates here at

ci5hq - the comm was started to encourage discussion after all (when it "wasn't allowed" at Safehouse, though that's happily now changed). You may still get responses that take into account both the romance and "intellectual" elements of the issues though, just because people are people. Myself, I enjoy both elements of Pros, depending on what mood I'm in. Can't promise the discussions'll always stay Cowley-based though, either... *g*

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lisaloveslewis.livejournal.com

Having read the comments I wish I'd voted for the stories that make you think now! I'd love to see a story list of what you think thinky stories are as I'm sure they would be really interesting choices.

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