Reading Room - Theme I - Science Fiction - Wk4 - Echo and Broadcast Difficulties by Ellis Ward

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Title: Echo (and it's sequel) Broadcast Difficulties
Author: Ellis Ward
Link to story or zine/ProsLib info: Echo (Circuit Archive) and Broadcast Difficulties (Circuit Archive) - also available at The Hatstand.

Echo/Broadcast Difficulties had by far the most votes in our which fics shall we talk about poll, and yet no one else volunteered to rec/review them, so I'm afraid you're stuck with me... which is fine, because I like these stories alot! They read to me as good old-fashioned science-fiction adventure tales - the human race has gone out and found worlds occupied by all kinds of beings, including some who are remarkably like ourselves - and the added bonus is that Bodie/Doyle are the heroes, and in my humble opinion, very much themselves.

As a bonus to the story itself I'm rather fascinated that the unkind guard at the prison is called Carnall - not a common name, as far as I'm aware, but of course a well-known Pros writer. I'm wondering if there was a specific reason for that, or if it was just a name chosen at random - does anyone know?

If it was chosen at random then it seems odd to me - I've read a number of stories where characters have been named after someone famous, such as Shane Warne (Nothing Left to Lose), Russell Grant (can't remember the title, but Jane again!) and even Noel and Liam Gallagher (Exile - complete with artwork of the actual people), and it's thrown me every time. "Carnall" wasn't quite as bad, perhaps because I don't have a picture of her in my head, but it's still got me wondering about backstory rather than the actual story when I re-read this. I wonder why authors do it - it must surely be done on purpose, perhaps as an in-joke of their own, without realising the potential effect on readers?

Back to Echo - I actually recced this back in 2008, and while it would be very easy to repeat how much I like it and why, and how fab the sfangi is, and that I like Echo more than Broadcast Difficulties, I'm not going to... *g* Instead I shall talk about something I particularly like about this story - and I think others of the era - which is the way it begins.

The lads meet when Bodie rescues Doyle from the prison planet of Stepney, which is perfect, because we immediately want to read more to find out what happened - how did Doyle end up in jail? Why's Bodie there? What's going on..? Current writers often use similar tactics to drag us into the story, but I've noticed that there seems to be a tendency these days for authors then to flip back in time and explain how the characters got to that point in the story - almost as if they're turning the story inside out, somehow. In small doses, this can be an interesting device, but it seems to be such a trend at the moment that nearly every fic I open is structured this way (cue everyone pointing out all the fics I haven't read that don't do this! *g* But you know what I mean...)

I've been doing more re-reading of Prosfic than anything else lately, though - and it strikes me that older stories very rarely use this structural device - instead they do what Ward does in Echo, which is to intrigue us with the beginning of the story, and then keep going! We learn about the lads' history and how they came to be on Stepney as part of the ongoing story rather than in a separate chunk, and I think there's a much nicer flow to that, somehow - as a reader who just wants to be swept up, it's perhaps like being on a roller-coaster with all its ups and downs, rather than one of those giant swings that take you up and up and up one side... and then stop and reverse and take you back again and up and up and up... and then stop and reverse again... And I find I'm a roller-coaster kind of reader to the point that I don't often want to get on the giant swing any more...

So - what did you think of Echo and Broadcast Difficulties? Do you know anything about any connection with Carnall - and/or does recognising non-Pros name (outside of the plot) bother you in a Pros story? Are you a roller-coaster reader, or do you like the giant swing best? Are you also wishing that there'd been a sequel where the lads chase down Cowley instead of following Bodie's worry that he's chasing them? What d'you reckon?

Comments

[m31andy.livejournal.com]

I'm not a huge AU fan, so I'm going to refrain from commenting on the actual fic itself, but I was intrigued by the "time out of joint" structure comment. Coming so late into the fandom, it can be difficult to ascertain the trends in structural or authorial process so that is rather interesting. I had always thought that, in terms of published fiction (and occasionally non-fiction!) at least, it was a rather old-fashioned trick.

As authors we want to write the immediate hook, give the readers something to draw them in. As readers we want to be immediately intrigued. So a good "jump into the middle of the story" is powerful tool for the author. I personally find that it can be rather jarring, unless skillfully and sparingly used (and why I've never used the technique myself!) otherwise it can come across as rather clunky.

Of course, one of my favourite Pros stories (Jack Reuben Darcy's Saints and Miracles makes heavy use of such a technique, so there are always exceptions!

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

I'm not a huge AU fan
Interesting - and yet you don't only write "straight" (so to speak! *g*) Pros yourself! I'm curious about why you don't like AU, in that case? (Though that's off the subject again - half the fun of chatting though, I reckon, is going off the subject! *g*)

I had always thought that, in terms of published fiction (and occasionally non-fiction!) at least, it was a rather old-fashioned trick.
I didn't mean to imply that it was an innovative or new structural device (it's been used in various older Prosfics too, such as Saints and Miracles, as you point out) just that there seems to be a current trend for it.

So a good "jump into the middle of the story" is powerful tool for the author. I personally find that it can be rather jarring
I find it rather jarring too - not just because it has to be done well (if a writer's not done it well to start with, then I'm not likely to like the rest of their writing either), but because it does seem to be used so often in stories now. It's one thing to be turned inside out occasionally, but when it's happening all the time I'm left feeling queasy rather than interested in the contents of the stomach... *g* And I miss the lovely smooth but exciting rollercoaster ride of a story. So... is it still a "powerful tool" if everyone's doing it? When does a "powerful tool" become an over-used gimmick? (Harsh language for the sake of discussion, not as a critique of any individual stories, btw!)

Also - you can jump into the middle of the story, as Ellis Ward does for Echo, without then stopping and going backwards, and I'd argue that's what the best stories do...

[m31andy.livejournal.com]

No, I don't just write straight!

With regards liking / disliking AUs, I don't know. It's varying degrees, I suppose, and the further you get away from canon, the more difficult I find to read. However, even a wildly AU story can be good in the hands of a good writer. The two stories I'm refusing to discuss specifically are very well written and enjoyable, but I tend to think of them as original novels with a lot of heavy Pros referencing, rather than Pros fan-fic. Harlequin Airs, another AU I've read and enjoyed, is still AU in my head, but less AU than Echo. And, when you come down to it, any fan-fic is by definition ever-so-slightly AU...

The thing about various timeframes is that, technically, you're putting yourself within the "tell, not show" paradigm. And, as we all know, writers "should show, not tell". A more powerful way of telling the story would be to have the back story bleed through as consequence, as you say Ellis does in these two fics, rather than as direct action. However, sparingly done, the flashback can be well done - exactly for why you state - it shakes things up a little. (and don't shake things up too much!)

I think, by now, that used straight, it can far too often be too gimmicky. (For that reason alone, I didn't use it in one of my fics, even though the first bit written (and posted) ended up halfway through the finished work!) Except, I didn't see it as such in Saints and Miracles, in which it is played very straight! Inconsistency, how we love thee!

One of the best uses I've seen recently for that kind of thing was actually TV - a multi-POV of the same incident, as an unreliable narrator example.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

the further you get away from canon, the more difficult I find to read
I suppose that might depend on what people consider canon (a topic in itself!). I'd say that I agreed completely with you - but to me the canon is the characters rather than the background and situation, so I can see canon in a well-written AU - and often much less so in a story that's set in the CI5 universe, if I can't feel the B/D characters...

Interesting that you mention tv too - I have the same feelings about the structure used there, to be honest. It can be effective, but when it crops up too often, I'm bored with it... I do wonder if I'd've liked Saints and Miracles as much if I read it now, for instance - though that's almost a little different anyway, because it has length on its side too, which I think is another factor. A wee bit of flashback works better for me than when it comprises a bigger chunk of a story, too...

[etain-antrim.livejournal.com]

I have to agree with just about everything you say. I love these two stories, but prefer Echo to its sequel. Of course, Ellis Ward is a favorite writer and used to be my very favorite, before I had read more widely in the fandom. I do enjoy well-written AUs and these are good examples. There's a whole new world here that is just different enough that one of the joys is figuring out how it works. That's one of the great pleasures in good SF, but just one of the pleasures in these stories. Having the lads true to themselves is another, perhaps greater one.


I found the in medias res approach worked well here, and as you note, it's intriguing. It doesn't hurt that Doyle is obviously unwell, but we're not sure why (yes, that's me, loving the h/c aspect), or why Bodie is helping him despite a strong desire to not do so. And the little explanatory glimpses into the past that she doles out as the story progresses keep me wanting more. And yes, I do want to hear more about Cowley. Having the lads chase him down would fit their personalities and give me great satisfaction. I wonder if Ward had that in mind but never got round to writing it?

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

I must admit I thought she left it intriguingly wide open for a sequel - and a couple of years ago she said she'd been thinking about one, so I guess you never know... I thought it was fun that Cowley was introduced at the end as a rather shadowy figure from Bodie's past, rather than right up front as someone controlling them - quite double-think, that... *g*

And yes! Totally agree about the joys of finding out how brand new worlds work, and I think Ward shows us beautifully!

[moth2fic.livejournal.com]

I adore these two stories, for all the reasons you give. The first time I read them I remember wanting a sfang and then thinking hard and thinking maybe not... Lovely detailed world building, exciting adventure and the lads in character...

...except... would Bodie really have gone for the echo stones and risked having to injure/kill 'civilians'? I didn't question it the first time I read it but this time it jarred a little.

Authors choose names for original characters for all sorts of reasons - I've chosen the names of friends myself on numerous occasions. It could be anything - a form of in-joke or teasing, a way to insert a friend into a fic in some small way, a bit of revenge for something similar, or just a search for a name - we'll probably never know! Even if I'd known it was a pros writer's name I don't think it would have thrown me.

I liked the use of e.g. Stepney, but was less thrilled with the Vauxan place names, with their strong earth ties (why???) and the arbitrary use of capitals. That didn't seem to fit with the names of the Vauxans themselves or the fact that they presumably had a different language, at least when their cities were founded.

I'd love a follow-up with their search for Cowley, and live in hope!

I much prefer 'roller-coasters'. I get very queasy indeed on 'swings'. I think some of that careful 'modern' restructuring (often in response to advice from editors, publishers and creative writing classes, who all bolster each other's opinions and don't necessarily relate to readers' desires), can work well in very short stories or in very literary pieces. I think it works less well in adventure novels, and these stories are quintessentially an adventure novel. I think of them as one story, by the way.

Thanks for the rec - so often I don't have, or don't think I have time to re-read books I love till someone pushes me. And thanks for the questions, too, because having to consider those 'extras' is what the Reading Room is all about!

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

..except... would Bodie really have gone for the echo stones and risked having to injure/kill 'civilians'?
You mean the "primitives"? To be honest I see no reason why he wouldn't have. I didn't get the impression that he thought of them as the equal of humans and we know (though we may not like it) that canon-Bodie doesn't necessarily think all humans were created equally... (from Klansman and other odd comments in eps). And he's been a mercenary, with all that implies - "When you lob a grenade into the bush, who knows how many people you kill" he says in The Rack. I think it's a bit of a projection of our own wishes to say that Bodie would always care more about injuring "civilians" than about getting his job done - over-heroising him (it's a word now! *g*) At the end of our day, B/D's job involves fighting, killing, injuring, planting evidence, threatening, using violence, fear and intimidation to obtain confessions - yes, they do it on behalf of "good", but Bodie didn't start out that way, Doyle might show flashes of conscience but it doesn't stop him using people when he thinks it's expedient, and Cowley shot a man in the back when he could perfectly well have sent younger, faster agents to catch him. So much as we love 'em... *g*

Authors choose names for original characters for all sorts of reasons - I've chosen the names of friends myself on numerous occasions.
Yes, but would you choose a famous name for a character, one that would immediately be associated with a particular look/time/place? Would you name one of them Paris Hilton, for instance, and if you did what would you expect the reader to make of that? Using Carnall, in this case, immediately took me out of the story in order to wonder whether Ward and Carnall knew each other, or whether it was a coincidence, to wonder if Carnall had ever used "Ward" in one of her stories... and then I carried on reading cos Echo is ever so good. It added another layer to the story - but I wonder if it was a useful one for the story itself, rather than for the author's own whatever-the-reason-was... In more poorly-written stories I stop bothering if I'm distracted enough, so being distracted by a name could potentially kill a story...

On the other hand, I didn't mind the Vauxan names at all - SutTon... hmmn, are there others? LerMith and Raydoyle, though they're not place names! I file spelling/pronunciation things like that in the little part of my brain that says How is it that everyone understands English? - it's a way authors have of getting around things that would otherwise make a story too cumbersome to be bothered reading. We know that characters in every story that exists have to go to the toilet - but it's such a little thing that we don't need to read about it when the focus of a story is somewhere else. Same with language - if it was a story about communication amongst species, then fine, be pedantic, but otherwise it gets in the way. I long ago decided that as soon as you leave the Earth's atmosphere, you're targetted by a babel fish that is with you then, forever... *g* What "strong earth ties" are you seeing in the Vauxan names, though?

(often in response to advice from editors, publishers and creative writing classes, who all bolster each other's opinions and don't necessarily relate to readers' desires)
And presumably in response (conscious or not) to fandom... *g*

I must admit I tend to think of Echo and Broadcast Difficulties as one story too - I can't imagine reading one and not the other!

And hah - while I was looking up the place names again, I was reminded that another character is "Alders" - that's always grated on me a little bit, and I've just realised why - it's Murphy in disguise, isn't it! Gargh!

[moth2fic.livejournal.com]

I don't think I'm over-heroising Bodie (see, I'm using your word) - it's more that his mercenary activities, and his later CI5 ones, were in response to a need as given by his captain, controller, whatever, and not on his own behalf. Apart from wanting to find riches for Doyle, this actually seems to smack of personal greed, which I don't associate with him (swiss rolls notwithstanding). And I think he appreciated that the stone worshippers were 'human' - just not very technologically advanced. Still, I suppose he thought he could get in and out without too much bother.

I have (once) used a name (not a famous one) that would amuse another friend by its context but no, I would usually try not to throw anyone out of the story.

Reading other comments - I think one of the problems with Broadcast Difficulties is that it's presented as another story, not a rather long epilogue to Echo. It doesn't have the same adventure element, and it doesn't have the 'will they/won't they' aspect of Echo so in a sense it feels like a let-down, or maybe too cosy an established relationship. If she'd shortened it, tightened it, and presented it as part of Echo, I don't think there would be any problems. I enjoyed it anyway, even as it is.

The name that bothered me was Carshalton - with capitals all over the place. Clearly she was tying all the names to London, but I felt that was going a bit too far when she had personal names like Targeon and Gilla, and Ray had to explain his human-style name to Bodie.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

it's more that his mercenary activities, and his later CI5 ones, were in response to a need as given by his captain, controller, whatever, and not on his own behalf
Hmmn - but they were done on his own behalf as far as the fact that he chose to do that job, to follow those leaders, and to let them direct his actions. If he really disagreed with such actions (and the possibility of hurting the guards in Echo) then he would have found another job...

That said, I've finally gone back and found the passage, and actually I don't think Bodie did think they'd be hurt:
Doyle's expression was as cold as their surroundings. "Of course. Echo's like a narcotic substance, if misused. So what do you expect me to do--kill the poor blighters?"
Bodie's teeth ached from the unnatural set of his jaws. "No, you bloody- minded-- Just get 'em out of the way, that's all. Long enough for me to grab up a few stones and bugger off. Okay?"
And a bit later he tells Doyle that he's going to "stun" the one guard at the cave - and I think he had his gun set to stun the whole time, or at least that was the impression I had... As you say, he didn't think it would be an issue.

Hmmn - I like Broadcast Difficulties as a separate story myself, and if anything I think there needs to be more to it, rather than less - but as you say, some kind of adventure element (cos that's what our lads really are), some kind of real tension... Or maybe just more tension to what did happen, cos there's the potential for it to have gone wrong properly. It felt a little rushed, perhaps...

CarShalTon
I'd forgotten that one! I think I've seen enough of that convention for alien names/languages that it didn't bother me, and it does actually make me pronounce it in quite a specific way which I can see translating to "alien" stops and language rhythms... I don't think she could have gone further than three capitalised syllables though! I can see personal names being more smoothly flowing than place names too, so that even Ray Doyle would become Raydoyle... We all play with language differently, I guess!

[gideonbd77.livejournal.com]

Forever burnt onto my memory is the image of a baby sfang clinging onto a naked Bodie's ... manhood. *lol* What an awesome, strangely sweet scene that was.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Lol - and is it the sfang that's in clearest focus...? *g* It was a fun scene, although when I think about it that might have been one of the things that rubbed me the wrong way (just a little) about Broadcast Difficulties - maybe that it was somehow verging onto B/D-as-parents/pet-owners territory rather than B/D-as-lads-who-adventure-the-skies, and that never seems quite right to me... Perhaps because there's no real indication in canon that they'd do either - they couldn't really, with their lifestyle... so it tends to feel like an author-indulgence rather than author-writing-about-B/D, if that makes sense. More about the author than about the lads. That said, when it's done well it can work, and I don't dislike Broadcast Difficulties, it's just a bit... not quite right...

[gideonbd77.livejournal.com]

Lol - and is it the sfang that's in clearest focus...? *g*

*lol* Believe it or not, it was Bodie's terror that the baby sfang was possibly going to, uhm, neuter him that was in clearest focus to me when I read that bit!

I am a total sucker for tough guys cooing over babies, but yeah, I can't see Bodie and Doyle becoming parents either, adoptive or not, for the same reasons you stated. At least, not until they decide to retire and settle down somewhere. (Huh, does anyone else hear two men snickering their heads off?)

In the case of baby sfangs in Broadcast Difficulties, it doesn't come across as too off to me as the mommy/daddy sfang is the one caring for its brood and not Bodie and Doyle. So I can still see the lads as their adventurous, wild selves. They just happen to have a bunch of sfangs in their ship. *grin*

[tango65.livejournal.com]

I love these stories as well, both as AU and just as wonderfully written Pros stories, as Ellis Ward does so well.

I also enjoyed Echo more than its sequel, although Broadcast Difficulties definitely has its moments.

However, I would still recommend both highly, for an intriguing read and a pleasant way to spend time with the lads, in another time and place.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

I defy anyone who liked Echo to try and do without Broadcast Difficulties - even if it's not quite as good (hmmn, I wonder why it isn't...) it's still more, which is wonderful! *g*

[milomaus.livejournal.com]

I´m really impressed by the things Ellis invented, the sfangi, Echostones and Vauxans, who kinda cover the "worries" of canon Doyle. (sorry, my translation abilities just fail me totally tonight, I do hope to make myself clear anyways.)
The thing that still puzzles me in Echo is Doyle´s fear at the beginning, when he discovers that Bodie knows he´s Vauxan. But maybe I just didn´t get the reason why he should be afraid?

Most puzzling things in this story she does explain later on, and I just adore your comparison with a roller coaster, it´s so fitting, cause she unravels the mysteries bit by bit, burried in the depths of other things and keeps the story flowing smoothly. It´s a fantastic ride with the lads!
I really love Broadcast difficulties just as much as Echo, so on a totally different level. Echo is thrilling, she´s unrevelling their backgrounds and creating AU so nicely. The sequel misses the backward glances she did in Echo so well, here it´s more like whole scenes in the past, something she was able to avoid in Echo. It´s a sweet addition, with them in an established relationship, which I just adore as much as h/c. But that´s just it, it´s sweet, and that´s just a word that so doesn´t fit them.
Her selfinvented names are so great, Asper and Targeon, and I tried to figure out if lerMith is an anagram, but I couldn´t come up with anything. Though it kinda sounds a tiny bit like "earthling" mangled...? Which still doesn´t make sense, cause there´s nothing of the Vauxan in it. I thought the british location names fitting, not really for a different planet, but in aid to remind us of the Bodie and Doyle from canon.

I would love to read a sequel about them chasing Cowley, but maybe it´s better there´s none, cause they´re just so nice to each other and afraid of hurting each others feelings now after their marriage, that another part couldn´t stand up to Echo at all.
So I´m very contend with what there is and I enjoyed the read immensly!
And the review, too!

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

You do make yourself clear - no worries! And yes, Ward does a brilliant job of building a really fascinating world, doesn't she, that really does fit in with our lads.

I thought the Doyle-being-afraid-that-Bodie-knew-he-was-Vauxan was a bit unresolved too - although I got the impression that humans had perhaps used Vauxan abilities in the past. When Bodie says he wants to used Doyle's shielding abilities to steal the Echo, Doyle points out that it's illegal to use Vauxans like that, which suggests it was done commonly and cruelly enough for it to be made illegal. And at first he has no idea who Bodie is, or what kind of person he is - just that Bodie knows who Doyle is...

I don't think I came up with any explanation for LerMith either, though it wouldn't surprise me if there is one - two friends names, combined? *g*

I thought the british location names fitting, not really for a different planet, but in aid to remind us of the Bodie and Doyle from canon.
Yes! Beautifully said! That's exactly how the British names work - a connection with Pros, rather than a sci-fi connection with Earth!

I think you're right about Broadcast Difficulties being sweeter too - and whilst that's nice in small doses, I'm not sure how well it fits them for a longer story, because my ep B/D aren't especially sweet... I think in a sequel they'd have to end up threatening each other somehow - or being threatened in a way that overcomes that honeymoon sweetness... I think it could work, but it would have to be done right! I'm really glad you enjoyed this though - thank you! *g*

[milomaus.livejournal.com]

*phew* Glad I was able to. And thanks for the reassurance.

just that Bodie knows who Doyle is...
This actually really makes sense! I focused too much on the Knowing-him-to-be-VAUXAN thing. And the abuse of Vauxans abilities still can´t convince me. But you did. Thanks!

And thanks so much for the awefully nice compliment of my try to come up with a reason for the British names. You made me inordinately happy!

my ep B/D aren't especially sweet
That´s exactly what I tried to say! Hee!

You´re very welcome!

[merentha13.livejournal.com]

I really liked "Echo". The characters were believable as B&D and the story was well written. I did not like "Broadcast Difficulties" at all. The story was just to absurd for me. I found the whole idea kind of silly and found myself laughing at certain parts - and not in a good way. I like Ward's writing, just didn't like the plot of this one. I agree with the comments above that B&D were just a bit too sweet. I had high hopes when I saw a sequel to "Echo", but wish I hadn't read it.