CI5 hq

"spending a life together", yes, but what sort of life? How long would such a relationship last before it came to extreme violence or just hating each other and splitting up?

For me it goes too quickly from a good first time on to the next step where Bodie (supposedly) knows so well what Doyle "really" wants/needs. And it's very dispiriting.

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For me it goes too quickly from a good first time on to the next step where Bodie (supposedly) knows so well what Doyle "really" wants/needs. And it's very dispiriting.

Exactly, too many spines sticking up when you're reading it. It's very wild and chaotic and somehow doesn't settle down the right way.

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One of the three warnings is funny *g*
Heeee, yes! (I had to go and look after I'd read it... *g*) I think they should be warning for bad sex scenes too, though... *g*

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I'd say the same thing, a euphemistic way of saying they're bonded now, and it will be a relationship of domination and submission, pain and relief.

It certainly is an intense story but... for me it's always felt like stroking a hedgehog the wrong way. There's just too much yelling and sobbing and awkward, unbelievable moments in the sex scenes - which is basically all there is. Like exploding desperation. I like October much better.

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potztausend.livejournal.com

Oh yes - too much sobbing...

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Like exploding desperation. That sums it up beautifully.

And they're bonded now - that kind of makes sense.

I just read "October" this evening, to see how it compared. mmm, not sure I prefer it, I like them both - apart from the ending of "Inside". It's a very distinctive style. Do you think she possibly has a medical background? *g*

Edited Date: 2010-11-25 11:46 pm (UTC)

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I just like how Ray is Bodie's ultimate haven in October, plus there are a few lines I absolutely adore, like
He was far enough gone that he let Ray pick him up and carry him. It was no easy matter, but Doyle was more than the sum of his leanly-muscled parts when it came to this one.
It's not a story that is easy to read, but I really like it because it's got that 'the two of them against the rest of the world' mentality.

There are quite a few fan fiction authors with a medical background it seems.

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siskiou.livejournal.com

I hope that was a fireman's carry, as I can't imagine Ray picking Bodie up in his arms!
In fact, I don't think Bodie would have an easy time carrying Ray, either!

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I'd have thought of a fireman's carry, too. Whichever way Bodie was carried, I just hope Ray minded the dislocated shoulder ;) It doesn't sound like fun, that's for sure. But then they didn't have to go far. And Ray was probably powered by adrenaline.

Bodie'd have an easier time picking up Ray though than vice versa *g* But I'd think in their profession they know the easiest ways to carry someone and employ them.
On a side note, I can carry my bf and he weighs 90kg. But yeah, that's piggyback and I don't get very far *g*

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I just hope Ray minded the dislocated shoulder
I was worried about the head injury he seemed to have right at the start and not being taken to hospital for that.

Glad you all liked "October", anyway. *g*

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Well, the story is a bit extreme in its own right. But I'm able to ignore that in exchange for all the nice parts it offers. :)

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sc-fossil.livejournal.com

It wasn't a very loving story. It was just rather a bit strange to me. And way too many tears.

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"It wasn't a very loving story." Even in the hotel, the morning after, so to speak? I'm sure it was meant to be loving. Did you find the whole thing rather harsh and strange?

The problem I have is that if it is not very loving, then it is extremely dark. I would prefer to read it as showing a profound bond (to quote Roven75)and mutual understanding which is a kind of love. But I still find the end unnecessarily bleak.

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I struggle with this fic in general I'm afraid, right from the very beginning - as SCFossil says, too many tears and too much sobbing... And things like this:
his resilient, hard-bitten colleague entirely undone. He picked him up off the desk - really? Like a biro or a paperweight? And they're frightened and uncomfortable and goodness knows what in sex, right from the start, which I think is supposed to be showing them affectionate together, so... :s

...his partner's tongue was in his throat so deep and hard that his gag-reflex tried to fire... just... really? (Sorry, can you tell I'm reading it now, with my morning coffee? *g*) And then scalding jets (of what?), Doyle thinks he's actually going to be sick, and then he's forced to piss instead, and then more tears, and then Bodie feels sick when he's about to come, and... just... it just all sounds really unpleasant! It kind of makes me wonder not if the author's got a medical background, but whether she's ever had sex... It's all just so overwrought as well - more scalding tears later, although there's brief concern about the bedsheets... I dunno about anyone else, but I've yet to meet or hear about a bloke over the age of 18 who pauses at that point to worry about bedsheets... the cricket scores, maybe... *g*

Am I getting off track? *g* Okay, the last sentence...

Oh wait, hang on - Doyle doesn't live in his own flat, cos it's too impersonal? Bodie's flat is much more homely? Doyle doesn't bother cooking, he survives on takeaways? Has the author watched the eps?

And then there's something about a neighbour, and suddenly it turns out Doyle's into SM, and Bodie likes to hit him... And I'm not ready for it, nothing in the story has been leading up to this - they're so apologetic and over-concerned about causing each other pain in the first part of it, and then suddenly they're both doing it on purpose, and then... yeah, the last sentence to me is confirmation that they're going to live a blissful and long life together because now they understand that what they really want is a BDSM relationship...

And the reason that makes absolutely no sense to me, is because the author hasn't told us a story about the lads coming to that realisation, she's told us a story that throws half a dozen different themes together in a long train of words, and that's it... Which makes it not really a story to me, more just random wandering... a pwp...

Oh, here's interesting... the feedback email link at Circuit is to Dargelos, which I believe is one of Fanny Adam's pseudonyms (http://www.thecircuitarchive.com/tca/cgi-bin/search.cgi?ShortResults=1&Title=&Title_Range=0&Author=Fanny%20Adams&AuthorRange=0&Original_Publication=&Summary=&Date=0&SizeRange=0&SortBy=1&SortOrder=0&NumToList=0&Exact=1) (who is also Araminta Carrington) (Ah yes, there's a Fanlore entry of course and it confirms this, though it doesn't mention Rowan as one of her pseuds (http://fanlore.org/wiki/Dargelos) - too long ago, perhaps? Or perhaps someone else using the same pseud, though I find FA's writing a curious mixture of good in places and completely overwrought in others too, so...)

October I find much better - still verging on the unrealistic in places, but at least it doesn't try to mangle together pain and nausea and sex in what's supposed to be a good way...

Shutting up now... *g*

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That's it in detail, yes, I feel the same way about this story. I don't recognize the lads at all. I can't even imagine anyone behaving like that. There's no logic in it, no path to follow and then after a very bumpy ride the whole thing careens wildy off into space... without the reader.

There's a few things in October that make me hesitate and go 'wait a minute'. Like the timeline. Doyle goes on about Aids tests and DNA samples, so from that I'd place the events in the story in the latter half of the 80s. But then he's still got his pills from when he got shot in DIAG. Surely he wouldn't keep them for years and years and then feed them to Bodie.

But I can explain that to myself somehow, or at least conveniently ignore it. With Inside, I just fall off very early during the ride.
At first I was hard pressed to believe both stories were written by the same author. The pseudonym thing is very interesting.

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It's funny isn't it - I agree about October, it was easier to keep going through the slight oddities because it felt more possible overall. Inside was just... all over the place - "a very bumpy ride careening wildly" sounds about right to me! *g*

The pseud thing is interesting - I've not read alot of Fanny Adams' Prosfic I have to admit, cos I find her a bit too soppy usually - which fits in with the tears and general sobbing and so on in Inside (and October too, though I think it's better justified!) I have read her Cat's Tales (http://www.palelyloitering.com/zines/cattales.html) all the way through, and found that a pretty uncomfortable ride too - again, thrown one way and then the other as far as plot went, though not at all in the same way as these Rowan fics! And partly it was because FA has them transporting magically to America to learn from someone really wise in the ancient ways, which rarely works for me... *g*

Hmmn - Helen Raven did something similar pseud-wise when she wrote her rather harsh Prosfic, Technique (http://www.oblique-publications.net/archives/paeanvi/technique.pdf) - she used a completely different pseud... and I think Kathy Keegan's writing is somewhat tougher than Jane's writing - I wonder if this was authors being shy of venturing into completely new, perhaps unlikeable territory in their fic, and so trying it out as someone else instead? (HR admits this, iirc) It's fair enough, but interesting... *g*

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I admit I haven't read a whole lot of FA's stories, either. I think I tried several when I got into Pros but they weren't really to my liking. And since there was a banquet of other stories to feast on I moved on quickly. I can't even remember which stories I've read.

I wonder if this was authors being shy of venturing into completely new, perhaps unlikeable territory in their fic, and so trying it out as someone else instead?
I think that nails it down. I can understand why they do it, might do it myself if I were a writer. But yes, it's interesting.

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I really like "Technique", oh dear. But that too is spoilt for me by an off-key and rather 'tacked-on'sex scene at the end.

Very interesting about the pseudonyms, thanks. That would explain why there are just the 2 fics by "Rowan" (at Circuit Archive), and also the 'venturing' aspect.

It doesn't help for me that Rowan (unusual for a girl) is the name of my dear, sweet virginal niece!

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[As I forgot to reply earlier, to

roven75]
"Like the timeline" as

byslantedlight remarked, you wonder how well she knows the canon. I paused on that too, but...

DiaG wasn't screened until December 1982, add a year to that and you are in the era when well informed men like CI5 agents would be conscious of AIDS.

Edit: aha, Mr Christmas, Mr Lawrence - that was released in 1983. But the sense in the fic is that Bodie and Doyle watching it together (aaah!) is not terribly recent. (I *could* see Bodie shedding a tear in that film, too.)

As for the swabs, agreed - I'm sure DNA testing came in in the late 80s or 90s. But in the early 80s blood and semen samples *were* swabbed and tested for other indicators. Some men's semen can be used to identify their blood group, so if you could match that with a blood sample from the suspect it was quite persuasive.

I am forever grateful that the canon Pros era pre-dated AIDS!

Edited Date: 2010-11-26 04:45 pm (UTC)

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I am forever grateful that the canon Pros era pre-dated AIDS!
It does make things a lot easier, doesn't it.

It was mostly the DNA samples that seemed a bit early to me not the AIDS, so I looked it up. Wikipedia says: "The DNA profiling technique was first reported in 1984 [...] genetic fingerprinting was made commercially available in 1987, when a chemical company, ICI, started a blood-testing center in England."

But as I said, I can come up with possible explanations (yours sounds plausible) or read around that. And yes, the story doesn't have any real plot but hey, it's got h/c, that's enough for me in this case *g*

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You saved me the bother of writing a review, thanks! In fact it's a month or two since I read the fic, just time didn't permit me to post this.

I was very drawn in by the opening sentences because it sounds like they're working on a case and that's where the pain is coming from, so it is an engaging twist, for me, that it's first-time sex in a country-house hotel. I just had to read on. "Visceral" is the word I'd use for the sex scenes, literally! As for the gag-reflex I wonder why more authors don't mention it, tbh. The whole thing about this style (and "October") is an exaggerated attention to bodily functions.

a story that throws half a dozen different themes together in a long train of words, well said. I had the impression she just wanted to write an SM scene, but it doesn't fit at all with the way their relationship had developed over the past 24 hours.
On that basis (and the conversation with the neighbour, which is supposed to convince him that it is okay to be in a stable same-sex relationship) Doyle decides to move in with Bodie, but as soon as he arrives there, it's all changed.

For me it had unpleasant overtones of domestic violence, with a controlling man who seduces an impressionable young woman, but once he's got her to move in with him drops the charming bit and becomes abusive.

I think there are supposed to be enough clues that Doyle is turned on by the pain and submission, and that Bodie is slightly rueful about administering it, but he 'knows' it's what Doyle needs. But if so, they are a bit subtle.

I would be much happier finally with an ending where Bodie comforts Doyle afterwards and we could be reassured it is just one side to a warm, loving relationship. It's the ending without comfort that upsets me.

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As for the gag-reflex I wonder why more authors don't mention it, tbh.
You expect to gag when someone kisses you? Maybe I've been snogging the wrong blokes... I think I'm kind of glad... *g* I've never heard of anyone's gag reflex kicking in from a good kiss! Lots of authors mention it when their lads are having oral sex though, and that makes sense to me! But from kissing?!

it had unpleasant overtones of domestic violence, with a controlling man who seduces an impressionable young woman
Yeah, it felt rather like that for me too, and very oddly so. And then there was that weird sentence where she compares... was it Doyle sitting on his lap to be fucked with something that a child does? That just seemed like a really inappropriate (or else disturbing!) comparison too...

If her clues towards Doyle's desire for submission had been subtle then that would have been one thing, but... if that's what they were then I just found the writing too conflicting to come to that conclusion...

You know, I kind of like the ending - it reminds me a little of the sort of thing that Sebastian did in Velvet Underground perhaps, but without the rest of the story being able to make sense of it... I don't mind a bit of dark promise at the end of a story, but whereas Sebastian convinced me that the lads both wanted it and enjoyed it on a deeper level, I didn't get any of that emotional conviction from Inside, and so I couldn't quite match the line to what had gone before...

And eep - sorry, I didn't mean to get too in depth when you were planning a deeper review yourself! You caught me at first-thing coffee, always an extra-rambley moment for me, I'm afraid... *g*

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You expect to gag when someone kisses you? eep! my mistake, I thought that was the oral sex bit. Kissing - no, clearly not! LOL.

when you were planning a deeper review yourself Please don't worry, I wasn't planning to write any more than I did above.

Re the ending, I take your point about the Sebastian-style bleakness, which I generally find disturbing and avoid. Here it just seems one-sided, Bodie is dominating Ray. And although she *tells us* (obliquely) that's what Ray wants too, it still seems unbalanced.

off topic - it's snoooowing! Lots and lots. Just started mid-morning, *after* everyone got to school/work, so it could be fun later.

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gideonbd77.livejournal.com

When I first read it, I assumed it was just a compilation of random scenes into one file. Separated, they might have been interesting scenarios to jump off to longer stories, but as a whole ... I don't know.

It came across to me as if the writer wanted to write out various hurt/comfort kinks without wanting to go to the trouble of writing an actual storyline. And then mashed it all up with random hints at something more going on and hoped that was enough to give it a 'meaningful edge'. Or something. It didn't work for me though.

October was a story where there was an overall storyline ... but again, it felt to me to be more about writing major Bodie hurt/comfort kink than an actual story.

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