The Reading Room: Et in Italia Ego

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

 Title: Et in Italia Ego
Author: Sebastian
Pairing: B/D
Further story information found at
Link to story and zine info:
http://hatstand.slashcity.net/sebastian/italia.html
http://www.oblique-publications.net/archives/paeanvi/italia.pdf
"Paean to Priapus VI: Chiaroscuro" (Oblique Publications 1997)prosficspoilers

 

 In last week’s Reading Room discussion, I’d mentioned that many of the fics I’ve come to enjoy and to recommend to others are stories that originally didn’t do a lot for me when I first entered Prosdom. Et in Italia Ego is such a story. In fact, to be honest, Sebastian was a writer that didn’t do a lot for me at first introduction. It was nothing to do with her writing -- which I found often exquisite -- she just didn’t seem to be interested in telling the stories I wanted to read. 

I’m sure it’s obvious that my feelings have since changed, and I think it’s interesting in the light of this week’s rec, to explore how and why.

 

 

In last week’s comments jaycat92 (jaycat92) suggested: Perhaps these are more complex and layered stories (not necessarily in the plot, but maybe in the writing style, or the relationships depicted). They are also fics that readers differ over. In contrast, when one reccs a fic that has instant and wide ranging appeal there isn't much to say about it except "Yeah, I love it too". 

And byslantedlight (byslantedlight) wrote: The idea of reading a story for itself, rather than for what we want it to be is interesting too - and I think fanfic lends itself to all sorts of muddles along that theme! I know that I want the characters I see on screen - but of course since other people see them differently, that's going to be an issue. Then writers might want to explore avenues down which we don't personally want to go, whether or not it fits with their online characters, and... in a way it's amazing that we all like the amount of Prosfic that we do!  

And I think, looking back, that both these are correct. When I first discovered Pros fan fiction I was looking for -- expecting, really -- stories that mirrored the episodes. I wanted case stories that were perhaps a little more in-depth and that explored the relationship between Bodie and Doyle, in particular the romantic relationship that I saw in the subtext of the lads’ eye contact, body language, and physical gestures. 

I think that’s where Sebastian failed for me initially -- as many fine writers and stories failed. (I think I’ve mentioned I couldn’t stand AU initially, for example.) Sebastian was not writing case stories or crime stories. Her stories were all relationship stories. I felt she showed an unseemly preoccupation with sex.  

Which is not to say that she didn’t write sex beautifully. *g* 

Anyway, relationship stories -- with or without the sex -- are now my favorites. But it took time for me to work through what I wanted out of these supplementary tales. I think there’s a sort of progression one goes through in discovering fan fiction, and I think one becomes both more tolerant and less tolerant. More tolerant of exploration of character and themes and dynamics less tolerant of shoddy writing because after you’ve glutted yourself on everything available, you get a little choosier. 

I’d be interested in hearing others’ experiences and thoughts on this. 

Anyway, Et in Italia Ego. 

"We'll take the coach to Rome," Doyle had said, and after half a litre of red wine it had sounded like a brilliant idea, a storming idea, quite possibly the best idea Ray Doyle had ever had in a lifetime of good ideas: sun, splendour, Ray Doyle, all in one cheap and cheerful package.

 This is a very simple and yet beautifully nuanced story about Bodie and Doyle on vacation -- and what that time spent out of their normal surroundings and roles does to their friendship. 

The writing is fabulous -- some of Sebastian’s best -- with nice little touches of sly humor. 

Doyle stirred himself and said in a quiet sort of way: "Yeh, we 'ad a very good night, thank you," and at the mischief of it Bodie jolted beside him, but Doyle's face did not so much as flicker; too quickly Bodie began to explain about the meal out, the walk, the visit to the supermarket.

"Didn't see you at breakfast?" Edna cranked her huge bulk around to ask.

Nosy cow. "Overslept," Bodie growled.

"Can't say we did," Fred yawned. "Not a wink."

"Bed's very comfy," was Doyle's offering.

"Not ours," Fred said with deep gloom.

"No breakfast, eh?" Edna said. ""The boys must be starving--here, Fred, pass them these."

And a sandwich or three later, when Fred seemed to have dozed off and Edna had her head deep in an oversized ham roll, Bodie said sotto voce to his partner:

"Shouldn't you have said are very comfy?"

"What?" Doyle stared at him as if he were mad.

"The beds are very comfy," Bodie hissed, looking around. "Don't want people getting the wrong idea, do we?"

"Too late now," Doyle shrugged. "Gonna look even worse, innit, if I tap 'im on the shoulder now going 'you know just now, when you thought I said 'the bed's comfy'? What I really said was, the beds are--"

"Ah, stoppit and shuddup." Bodie stretched out as far as possible--about three inches--and pressed his thigh to Doyle's. The answering pressure he perhaps imagined, for when he opened his eyes Doyle was looking away from him, out of the window.  

Sebastian leisurely, lovingly explores the lads’ characters and their relationship, vividly capturing them frame by frame in this strange, exotic setting. I can see them -- and hear them (their voices are pitch perfect -- both in the rhythm of their speech, the things that they say, and perhaps most importantly, the things they don’t say). 

There’s a wonderful, drawn out sexual tension all the way through balanced by their unease with what’s happening between them, the fear of what others might think, what they might think in time when this holiday is just a distant memory… 

Doyle propped his elbows on the railings and gazed out. His skin had turned an easy brown and his teeth looked very white; he looked fit and strong and healthy. His shirt, shortsleeved white aertex, was damp here and there; the hairs on his honey-coloured forearms were stiffly raised, trying in vain to bring his body heat down. There was nobody about; on impulse Bodie ducked his head and laid his cheek there for a moment on Doyle's arm, breathing in the warm scent of the other man's body, always a familiar background to a life where he was often confined in small spaces with Ray Doyle: sweat and soap and sometimes, but not today, gunsmoke. Here in Italy he and Doyle were just men, just tourists: but they had something very special about them today: they had kissed in the night and made each other come, and nobody in the world knew it, a secret they would never share with another living soul. 

And then there’s the bittersweet, poignant, heartache of an ending. But really it can’t end any other way. Not if it’s to have the impact Sebastian is after. The force, the power, of the story comes from the fact that this is a holiday romance, a moment captured in time. It can only end one way. The lads aren’t starting off on a new life together. They’re on holiday, and at the end of the holiday they have to return to their jobs and lives in London. 

He looked down into his partner's face, and Doyle looked back up at him. For a very long while no-one spoke in the room.

Bodie stroked Doyle's hair with his fingers, very gently. "I'll never forget this, Doyle. Never. Just because I never mention it--I don't want you to think it didn't mean anything to me."

"I know what it meant. Hey, look. Maybe once a year we'll get a bottle of Chianti and remember. Like an anniversary--no, okay, stupid idea. Ssh. Bodie. It's okay."  

Now when they actually get back to London and have to deal with the consequences of this holiday…ah, that’s a story I’d love to read. 

The title means Even in Italy I Exist. It’s a riff on Et in Arcadia ego, and I’d be interested in hearing some thoughts on what it might mean given the possibilities of the original. 

 

 

Comments

[potztausend.livejournal.com]

Shooting2kill recently had an entry with a link to this story and I'm lazy - I just quote my comment :-).

"Sebastians story: ohh, it's so ... so many things: it is bittersweet, it is really funny (I remember the men "fishing with short rods" *g*), and it is so sad in the end. When I finished reading, I just wanted to shake them both and shout at them "Don't suppress your feelings"..."
She is a great writer.

[shooting2kill.livejournal.com]

Reading very quickly I saw shooting2kill and she is a great writer and for one all-too-brief but wonderful moment I thought you meant me......

[potztausend.livejournal.com]

Oh *scratches head* I don't remember your name in the circuit archive or the hatstand. So I have to ask a perhaps silly question: do you write fics?

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

She is a great writer

She's certainly one of my favorites. A writer I read again and again.

[constant-muse.livejournal.com]

oh, really interesting stuff, but it's midnight...

Back tomorrow.

[margaret-r.livejournal.com]

I’m fairly new to Pros fanfic so haven’t read anywhere near as extensively as most of the people here, or experienced a lot of the different writers. I have read some of Sebastian’s fics though and I’m a little ambivalent about her work, which can be evocatively beautiful in its construction but sometime seems to lead her characters in directions I’m not sure are right for the lads. Maybe that’s why I’ve enjoyed her shorter fics more than her longer ones.

This fic, though, is delicious. I love the slow dance of seduction that is played out and the sly humour. I can just see Doyle ignoring all around him in his retreat behind his sunglasses and Bodie being tempted out of his isolation by Edna’s treats. The characters are all finely drawn with the other passengers gradually coming into their own, just as they would on any extended bus tour.

But it’s the lads themselves who hold your attention and their romance is beautiful, the inevitable conclusion sad and all too real. I’d like to know what happens when they try and deal with the consequences when they get back too, but it might be too heartbreaking!

As for the title, I’m inclined to think that for Bodie and Doyle Italy is where they truly came to life.

A beautiful fic, thanks for the rec:)

[firlefanzine.livejournal.com]

I'm not yet through to reread it, but something came to my mind when I read your comment.

"...but sometime seems to lead her characters in directions I’m not sure are right for the lads." ...I can just see Doyle ignoring all around him in his retreat behind his sunglasses..."
I think Doyle is one hell of a travel mate here! He is not just ignoring all around, he is ignoring Bodie as well! ('always his Walkman clamped to his ears', 'always in the window seat', 'Bodie(...) one huge grip bag in each hand. Doyle lightly tossed his Walkman from hand to hand and looked around', 'and refused all offerings except a Polo.', 'Bodie jumped as a pair of lean fingers snapped briskly underneath his nose. "You there?" Doyle said caustically.', '"Let's get back," Doyle said, rising. Bodie looked around. The party was in full swing,')
Doyle is just a selfish bastard here, and I think that's a bit exaggerated.
I would have drowned him in the Tiber alone for that Walkman!

Despite of that it's fun to read...

[margaret-r.livejournal.com]

Yes, Doyle is selfish to some degee here and that’s why I do have problems with some of Sebastian’s work because that doesn’t really fit with the Doyle I see. But I did the same as Bodie did in the fic - left Doyle to his moody silences during the day and concentrated instead on the interactions between Bodie and the other passengers and the night-time scenes between the lads, all of which made the fic the good read that it is.

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

Doyle is just a selfish bastard here, and I think that's a bit exaggerated.
I would have drowned him in the Tiber alone for that Walkman!


Yes, Sebastian's Doyle is often moody and difficult. Her Bodie tolerates it, even indulges it up to a point -- but then maybe that's the key. Bodie tolerates it, and he needn't -- he's plenty tough, plenty capable of speaking his mind -- or grabbing Doyle by the scruff of his neck and tossing him in the Tiber -- yet he goes along with it, seems even mildly, wryly amused by it. Bodie's view of Doyle is unsentimental, but the affection is deep and abiding -- and because Bodie is not a weak or foolish man, I think the message is that Doyle, for all his irascibility, is well worth it.

[smirra.livejournal.com]

My impression is that most writers have- if not preferences a focus on one character. I suppose the motives of the character are more familiar or interesting to them. It's sometimes a certain motive that they stress, develop and return to in their stories. It's like that with me, I know. The more though I value stories that can reach me especially with their view on the other partner.
I think that brings very different views of both characters into the fanfics.
It's these different views that makes discussions about "in and out" of character for me at least- almost pointless.

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

My impression is that most writers have- if not preferences a focus on one character. I suppose the motives of the character are more familiar or interesting to them.

That's probably true. I find Doyle harder to capture as a character, and yet he fascinates me. It might be why I'm more tolerant of deviations in his character. He seems the more mutable personality.

But -- and I don't know if this is common -- I have zero interest in either of them without the other. I think this is why gen and het do little for me (besides the obvious). There's almost inevitably a focus on one character over the other -- especially in het where one of the lads is going to have a relationship with an OC. For me, I need both lads and that foil of their characters and personalities. While I love each other them individually, I don't want a story about one of them without the other.

It's sometimes a certain motive that they stress, develop and return to in their stories.

Yes, certain writers are fascinated with various themes. With Sebastian we often see an isolated, removed Doyle who, despite appearances to the contrary, is actually desperate to have someone of his own, someone who totally understands and loves him regardless.

It's like that with me, I know. The more though I value stories that can reach me especially with their view on the other partner.

Probably one reason I prefer stories through Bodie's POV. I enjoy the observation and analysis of Doyle.

I think that brings very different views of both characters into the fanfics.
It's these different views that makes discussions about "in and out" of character for me at least- almost pointless.

The meta discussions, certainly. But I never tire of discussing the lads' characters. *g*

[margaret-r.livejournal.com]

Everyone will see different aspects of a character and I think that discussions can help to see another’s point of view. Whether you agree or disagree with the interpretations doesn’t really matter, it’s just good to have another’s opinion, one that may even add a new dimension to your own ideas of the character.

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

I’m fairly new to Pros fanfic so haven’t read anywhere near as extensively as most of the people here, or experienced a lot of the different writers. I have read some of Sebastian’s fics though and I’m a little ambivalent about her work, which can be evocatively beautiful in its construction but sometime seems to lead her characters in directions I’m not sure are right for the lads.

Yes, I think this was originally why I had trouble with her stories. While her Doyle and Bodie are (for me) the lads I see on screen, she often spins their relationship -- or layers their characters -- in ways I'm unconvinced about. But I've reached a point where I trust her enough as a writer to simply relax and enjoy the ride.

Maybe that’s why I’ve enjoyed her shorter fics more than her longer ones.

I admit there are a couple of stories I'm not crazy about. Velvet Underground doesn't do much for me or Jungle Book, but overall I like almost everything she's done. Even when she's going in a direction I'm not that interested in, I find her explorations worth following (at least once). It's a relatively small body of work, alas.


This fic, though, is delicious. I love the slow dance of seduction that is played out and the sly humour. I can just see Doyle ignoring all around him in his retreat behind his sunglasses and Bodie being tempted out of his isolation by Edna’s treats. The characters are all finely drawn with the other passengers gradually coming into their own, just as they would on any extended bus tour.

It's wonderful to see the lads so totally and believably out of their normal milieu. I think she does a great job capturing...well, everything. The lads, the bus, Italy. It's all very evocative, but she never loses track of the fact that this is a story about the lads dawning awareness -- no, more than that. They're already aware, but now in this new, exotic environment they risk acting on that awareness. It's very believable, and she really does capture that sexual tension.

But it’s the lads themselves who hold your attention and their romance is beautiful, the inevitable conclusion sad and all too real. I’d like to know what happens when they try and deal with the consequences when they get back too, but it might be too heartbreaking!

True!

I do believe it would be difficult to put that genie back in the bottle, however much they might wish to.

As for the title, I’m inclined to think that for Bodie and Doyle Italy is where they truly came to life.

Yes, that could be.

A beautiful fic, thanks for the rec:)


So glad you enjoyed it!

[margaret-r.livejournal.com]

Yes, I think this was originally why I had trouble with her stories. While her Doyle and Bodie are (for me) the lads I see on screen, she often spins their relationship -- or layers their characters -- in ways I'm unconvinced about. But I've reached a point where I trust her enough as a writer to simply relax and enjoy the ride.

I agree. From what I have read of her work there have been times when I’ve felt the dialogue and general characterisations are spot on, but not their actions and reactions. In same cases they seem to be the lads but aren’t – if that makes sense!

I admit there are a couple of stories I'm not crazy about. Velvet Underground doesn't do much for me or Jungle Book, but overall I like almost everything she's done. Even when she's going in a direction I'm not that interested in, I find her explorations worth following (at least once). It's a relatively small body of work, alas.

I think her character explorations are the strength of her writing, even if we don’t always agree with the directions she takes.

It's wonderful to see the lads so totally and believably out of their normal milieu. I think she does a great job capturing...well, everything. The lads, the bus, Italy. It's all very evocative, but she never loses track of the fact that this is a story about the lads dawning awareness -- no, more than that. They're already aware, but now in this new, exotic environment they risk acting on that awareness. It's very believable, and she really does capture that sexual tension.

Yes!, the pace of the story is about perfect. You get enough without ever too much of the lads unfolding sexual exploration interspersed with some lovely scenes of Italy and the interactions of the other passengers so that the flow works nicely and keeps you interested.

I do believe it would be difficult to put that genie back in the bottle, however much they might wish to.

That’s what makes the whole fic so poignant. As you mentioned above, the fic is very believable and the reality of such a situation, especially at that time, is that they would probably have very little choice other than to hide their feelings and pretend nothing happened.

[constant-muse.livejournal.com]

When I first discovered Pros fan fiction I was looking for -- expecting, really -- stories that mirrored the episodes... You describe precisely (much better than I could) my own experience with Pros fanfic, and I doubt I'm unusual. Initially I didn't see the point of AU either, but very soon fell for it, especially in the hands of Sally Fell.
But I haven't advanced as far as you because (as you know!) I still don't enjoy Sebastian's gruelling dissections of painful emotions, esp. when the ending is unhappy. It can seem like the author (and I don't mean Sebastian alone or in particular) deliberately, almost sadistically, making the characters (and the reader) suffer to maximise the emotional pay off.

I must be making progress, though, because I do take the point about expectations of a story, as opposed to simply reading a story for itself. It is painful to read a fic like this one through the prism that Bodie and Doyle *should* live happily ever after as lovers, because that is patently not the outcome. But without that prism, one can better appreciate the nuances.
Indeed the line you quote:
"I'll never forget this, Doyle. Never. Just because I never mention it--I don't want you to think it didn't mean anything to me.", and Doyle's immediate rejoinder that shows he feels exactly the same.
on it's own does not speak of terrible loss and wasted opportunity.

[potztausend.livejournal.com]

deliberately, almost sadistically, making the characters (and the reader) suffer to maximise the emotional pay off. I remember two very good, but sad stories where the authors explained why they did this sort of story.

One was "Wednesday Morning" by MFaeGlasgow, and she wrote as an introduction to her story This sad little vignette is what happens when you combine old Beatles songs, BBC documentaries, and far too many hours being far too nice to far too many children..

I don't remember the other sad story, but the author said as an introduction she had so much stress because of her studies and a current exam.

So what about Sebastian? Did she make this journey herself and had some nasty experiences? I hope not... :-)

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

You describe precisely (much better than I could) my own experience with Pros fanfic, and I doubt I'm unusual. Initially I didn't see the point of AU either, but very soon fell for it, especially in the hands of Sally Fell.

I'm trying to think the first AU I read -- seriously read -- and enjoyed. It might have been Larton. Or maybe it was Suitable Gravity. Anyway, I agree! Once you develop that taste it does open up a whole world of stories. Wonderful.

But I haven't advanced as far as you because (as you know!) I still don't enjoy Sebastian's gruelling dissections of painful emotions, esp. when the ending is unhappy.

I think this is the only unhappy one, isn't it? I'm trying to think? It is a painful ending, and I had trouble with it until I started looking at it from a technical standpoint. :-P Then it became clear to me she could only go one way on it.

I'd still love to see the story of once they've returned to London. I don't think it would be quite so easy to put it all behind them, given that the attraction had already been there by the time they arrived in Italy, and that struggle to put it behind them, to forget -- well, it would either be heartbreaking or it would be glorious. Maybe both. *g*

It can seem like the author (and I don't mean Sebastian alone or in particular) deliberately, almost sadistically, making the characters (and the reader) suffer to maximise the emotional pay off.

I can put up with a lot of angst if I get a suitably rich and rewarding ending. But I don't tend to like stories that end...well, like this one! So I don't know why EIIE doesn't bother me anymore. Maybe because I can just about see how it would play out in cold, gray London?

Or maybe just because the writing and the images are so beautiful and so memorable I can put the ending away.

I must be making progress, though, because I do take the point about expectations of a story, as opposed to simply reading a story for itself. It is painful to read a fic like this one through the prism that Bodie and Doyle *should* live happily ever after as lovers, because that is patently not the outcome. But without that prism, one can better appreciate the nuances.

It's true, isn't it?

I guess that's one reason why reading the ending can help me decide to occasionally go ahead with a death fic. Once I'm braced for whatever's coming, I can read with a different perspective.


Indeed the line you quote:
"I'll never forget this, Doyle. Never. Just because I never mention it--I don't want you to think it didn't mean anything to me.", and Doyle's immediate rejoinder that shows he feels exactly the same.
on it's own does not speak of terrible loss and wasted opportunity.

Better to have loved and lost. I think the lads would both agree with that.

Poussin and Arcadia

[constant-muse.livejournal.com]

Extraordinary that we were just talking about Nicolas Poussin at home yesterday, probably around the same time you were posting! The OH (and chief cook) was bitching about a pretentious chicken recipe that called for a 'chubby poussin', which brought to mind the painter. There is a vaguely Pros connection here (well, Cold War espionage) in that Anthony Blunt, the last of the Cambridge spies, was the national expert on Nicolas Poussin.

As for "Et in Italia ego", apart from good use of a well known phrase, I take it to be Italy likened to Arcadia, an earthly paradise. But that just makes the story seem even more sad because it makes the end of the story like the Fall, the expulsion from the garden of Eden/grace/paradise.

I just noticed too that "Et in Arcadia ego" is the title of the first episode of "Brideshead Revisited".

Re: Poussin and Arcadia

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

Extraordinary that we were just talking about Nicolas Poussin at home yesterday, probably around the same time you were posting! The OH (and chief cook) was bitching about a pretentious chicken recipe that called for a 'chubby poussin', which brought to mind the painter. There is a vaguely Pros connection here (well, Cold War espionage) in that Anthony Blunt, the last of the Cambridge spies, was the national expert on Nicolas Poussin.

Now that's quite a coincidence! And so many neat little synchronicities.

As for "Et in Italia ego", apart from good use of a well known phrase, I take it to be Italy likened to Arcadia, an earthly paradise. But that just makes the story seem even more sad because it makes the end of the story like the Fall, the expulsion from the garden of Eden/grace/paradise.

I liked too, reading the Wikipedia thingie on the discussion of the two paintings, the shadow of mortality, the sense that time is fleeting -- the story captures that too when Bodie mentions something about working for Cowley till the day he dies. There's a bittersweet sense that they don't have forever. Magnified by the historical setting.

I just noticed too that "Et in Arcadia ego" is the title of the first episode of "Brideshead Revisited".

Ha!

[shooting2kill.livejournal.com]

I almost didn’t comment because I find it impossible to be objective about this story such is my high regard for it. As with my other favourite stories, every time I read it the power of the writing stays in my head for days and unsettles me as I want to be a character travelling with B and D on the most important journey of their lives. And when I’d first read it I was really curious about the writer and what she says at the end about her own coach trip to Italy and almost falling in love - it seemed to make the whole thing almost magical. So......…I thought I had nothing to say but the discussion has raised a couple of points for me and made me think. I think Doyle's so-called 'selfishness' has been mentioned.... I don’t think a need to be solitary is necessarily a sign of selfishness. Other people can be tiring and I don’t think a desire to switch off and be left alone – to relax - is selfish. And I think I’d agree with another comment made that perhaps Doyle - in listening to his music and wearing sunglasses - is hiding behind those things (maybe not to begin with) and trying to come to terms in his own way with his evolving feelings towards Bodie.

And then there’s the bittersweet, poignant, heartache of an ending. But really it can’t end any other way. Not if it’s to have the impact Sebastian is after. The force, the power, of the story comes from the fact that this is a holiday romance, a moment captured in time. It can only end one way. The lads aren’t starting off on a new life together. They’re on holiday, and at the end of the holiday they have to return to their jobs and lives in London.

I think I tend towards the opposite view that it can only end in one way which is that their physical/falling in love relationship has to continue as I think it would be impossible to ignore and return to the status quo of who and what they were pre-holiday ie. I think it’s their former relationship which has been lost for good. I just can’t see how they can work and spend hours together alone in such close proximity and pretend things are the way they were. (And that's why there has to be a sequel!)

Just one tiny thing - for the sake of discussion – I’ve sometimes questioned the likelihood of two image-conscious, virile young men - who seem to love driving fast cars and being in control – booking a holiday on a coach trip? I know they were a bit pissed when they first had the idea but even so, it just doesn't seem quite in character...

A great rec, thanks a lot!

[And sorry for all the edits!]

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

I almost didn’t comment because I find it impossible to be objective about this story such is my high regard for it.

Oh, but that's okay! Sometimes it's nice just to relax and share the love.

As with my other favourite stories, every time I read it the power of the writing stays in my head for days and unsettles me as I want to be a character travelling with B and D on the most important journey of their lives. And when I’d first read it I was really curious about the writer and what she says at the end about her own coach trip to Italy and almost falling in love - it seemed to make the whole thing almost magical.

Magical. Yes, that's a good word for it. It does have a magical feel. It reminds me of the way a painting of a familiar scene or object seems to capture and reveal something previously hidden

I thought I had nothing to say but the discussion has raised a couple of points for me and made me think. I think Doyle's so-called 'selfishness' has been mentioned.... I don’t think a need to be solitary is necessarily a sign of selfishness. Other people can be tiring and I don’t think a desire to switch off and be left alone – to relax - is selfish. And I think I’d agree with another comment made that perhaps Doyle - in listening to his music and wearing sunglasses - is hiding behind those things (maybe not to begin with) and trying to come to terms in his own way with his evolving feelings towards Bodie.

I think that's a good point. If anyone might need a rest from people it would be probably be Doyle and Bodie.

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

And then there’s the bittersweet, poignant, heartache of an ending. But really it can’t end any other way. Not if it’s to have the impact Sebastian is after. The force, the power, of the story comes from the fact that this is a holiday romance, a moment captured in time. It can only end one way. The lads aren’t starting off on a new life together. They’re on holiday, and at the end of the holiday they have to return to their jobs and lives in London.

I think I tend towards the opposite view that it can only end in one way which is that their physical/falling in love relationship has to continue as I think it would be impossible to ignore and return to the status quo of who and what they were pre-holiday ie. I think it’s their former relationship which has been lost for good. I just can’t see how they can work and spend hours together alone in such close proximity and pretend things are the way they were. (And that's why there has to be a sequel!)

Oh, I agree! I think -- however good their intentions -- it would be impossible for them to close the lid on that particular Pandora's Box. The first time one of them pulls a bird. Heck, the first night after they get home and each returns to his lonely, dark flat and tries not to remember.

But had she ended the story with them deciding to chuck their jobs and stay in Italy...it would have been sweet but hard to believe. And the story would lose a lot of its impact. It would be a charming first time story, but it wouldn't be the thing of beauty it is.

No, I'm with you. The story begs for a sequel.

Just one tiny thing - for the sake of discussion – I’ve sometimes questioned the likelihood of two image-conscious, virile young men - who seem to love driving fast cars and being in control – booking a holiday on a coach trip? I know they were a bit pissed when they first had the idea but even so, it just doesn't seem quite in character...


HA. Never thought of that. Would it be a question of economics? Were such trips more common then? It's obviously done on impulse but...hmmm.


A great rec, thanks a lot!

Thanks for commenting!

[squeeful.livejournal.com]

I avoided this fic for a while because of its title, ha. Et in Arcadia ego is a memento mori, a reminder you are mortal and that Death, the speaker, comes even in paradise on earth. I thought for sure Et in Italia Ego was going to be a deathfic. But its truth is almost as painful: the death of the old relationship, the birth of a new, and then the killing of the new bloom.

[kiwisue.livejournal.com]

Interesting!

I've just been reading a book about the Earls of Pembroke in the English Civil Wars that references "Arcadianism" in a fascinating way. There's the "ideal" of Arcadia itself – the unspoilt, peaceful place, far away from the corruption and intrigue of court and city life. Then there's reality: in order to create a paradisaical residence at his home of Wilton the Earl enclosed and demolished an entire village and slew some 'rebels' who protested too much.

In general literary & artistic use, the Arcadian ideal always seems to be opposed/contradicted by references to mortality – Raleigh's " The Nymph's Reply To The Shepherd" vs Marlowe's "Come live with me and be my love" for example.

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

I avoided this fic for a while because of its title, ha. Et in Arcadia ego is a memento mori, a reminder you are mortal and that Death, the speaker, comes even in paradise on earth. I thought for sure Et in Italia Ego was going to be a deathfic. But its truth is almost as painful: the death of the old relationship, the birth of a new, and then the killing of the new bloom.



I think you're right about the memento mori aspect -- I'm assuming that Sebastian, either consciously or unconsciously, was shading the story with that haunting sense of fleeting time. These are men living very dangerous lives back in the real world.

I'm glad you gave a read!