Prosfic Spoilers - up for discussion again - with a shiny new idea...

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

ladymeander contacted me last night with what I think's a fabulous idea to help solve the issue of those-who-want-spoilers vs those-who-don't-want-spoilers, and I said I'd post about it today and see what other people thought. So...

What about setting up a Pros comm dedicated to spoilers for Prosfic? Prosficspoilers could be a place where anyone could go and find the spoiler information they needed. People who don't want spoiler information simply wouldn't go there! It could be used from CI5hq or any other comm, and even by people reading stories on the Circuit Archive, Hatstand, ProsLib or anywhere else that they worried didn't give them enough spoiler information.

People/contributors would simply post their spoiler information at the comm however they want to, and then tag the entry with the title of the story. The tags list would then show a long list of stories with spoiler information and simply clicking the title would bring that information up.

It would keep headers/trailers at all the Pros comms who wanted to use them nice and simple (no worrying about how to do coding of any kind):

Title:
Author:
Pairing: (the one piece of extra information that all but 2/c100 people polled said they wanted - and those 2 people didn't even care what fandom they were reading in *g*)
Story Information: Prosficspoilers [comm link]

And it could be used for new fic as well as reviews/recs, and also for stories where the authors/reccers don't believe in spoilers. For example, I'll never include spoiler information of any kind with one of my stories, but people who wanted that information could post it themselves over at Prosficspoilers and it could be found there.

What do you reckon? I can't believe no one's thought of it before! If people like the idea, then I could set up the comm with the appropriate settings, and then hand it over to anyone who volunteers to be a mod, and it'd be away - no muss, no fuss... *g*

Comments

[firlefanzine.livejournal.com]

Good idea!
And I volunteer to be the mod. ;-)

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Excellent - I was hoping you'd say that. You can spoil whatever you like in your own corner then, and yet not ruin stories for people who don't want to see it!

I'm quite tempted to set it up now, without even waiting for other responses, since I rather think you're the person who cared the most about it all and you have volunteered to run it! But would you like me to, or are you happy to create the comm etc yourself? I've done it enough times now that it's quite quick and easy for me - then I'd just put you on as mod and take myself off... Or you might just fancy getting on with it yourself... *g*

[firlefanzine.livejournal.com]

No, please do it for me - I'd rather change things than work it out completely for myself, for I've never done it with a comm.

But shouldn't we wait for other opinions?

spoiled *g*

[heliophile-oxon.livejournal.com]

Pro - I'd love to be able to check for more info about stories, not just because I want to avoid my own personal turn-offs but because I'd like to be able to actively search for turn-ons. Although whether or not that would be possible in practice would depend on how much "spoiler" info there was, of course. Would the new comm be searchable by category-of-warning/spoiler? (by clicking on tags, I suppose?) Do you think it would tend towards the rec/review, as well as main warnings? (just wondering what you think might happen; obviously that would depend on the individual contributor). Personally I suspect I'd probably just have a quick glance at the end to make sure they're both still alive .... *bg*

Con - adds a little extra bother to the act of posting a story (you have to post the story and the spoilers/warnings separately, and then create a link between the two?) and - for those who want to - to the act of checking up on a story before reading it (though not much, in this case - it would just be a click away, iiuc? Or would you click through to the new comm and then have to search for the specific fic within it, which would be a bit further to go)

agh, re-posted because I keep screwing up!

Re: spoiled *g*

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Con - adds a little extra bother to the act of posting a story (you have to post the story and the spoilers/warnings separately
No you wouldn't do this - you'd just copy and paste the header format from the user page (as you do now), and the link would be a general one to the spoiler comm, and would automatically appear on all headers. You then just look down the tag list for the title and click on that. So the whole thing would involve clicking on just two links, rather than having to learn how to do html coding etc. So actually less bother to posting a story!

ETA - argh, you asked about whether it would become a review comm or not - to be honest I'd hope not, cos that's what CI5hq is. If Prosficspoilers became a review comm itself, then it would just split the Pros community into two, and duplicate discussions. There's already been a split like that in Pros lj generally, and I think it's a shame.

As to whether you'd have categories of warnings - that'd be up to the comm members to decide. Quite honestly it's one of the reasons I hate dealing with this whole spoiler/warning issue in the first place - it's putting the onus of pleasing individual tastes on the community rather than the individual, and it's such an individual thing that getting too specific about it makes more work for people and takes away from other things a comm/mod/writer/artist etc could be doing in the first place! I'd rather be writing stories than spending time worrying how to tag them etc - so I'll leave that up to Prosficspoiler comm members to work out, I'm not even going to try to guess for them! *g*

Re: spoiled *g*

[callistosh65.livejournal.com]

There's already been a split like that in Pros lj generally, and I think it's a shame. Spoiler issue aside for a second, I am a little puzzled by this and I'm wondering why you see it as a 'spilt' and not a 'blossoming'.

I remember when I first found Pros on lj, I think the_safehouse was *the* posting comm for all things Pros. Then you and others set up the wonderful discoveredinalj (still responsible for about half my output:-), and also ci5hq. Now we also have, for example, the recently set up teaandswissroll and ci5_boxoftricks for the Big Bang.

I'm actually chuffed to bits that our relatively small fandom is still so active, ever-changing, and evolving here on LJ.

I guess I'm just curious as to where you see a split, and why.

[firlefanzine.livejournal.com]

Sorry, I can't participate properly at the moment - I'm at work...
And I think I have to play a bit with the possibilities/limitations of a comm at LJ before I can say anything about it... :-o

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

It's okay, I'm at work too... and busy today!

I don't think any of the limitations etc mentioned above are big problems - there are going to be limitations to every attempt at providing spoiler information and yet being fair to everyone, but this seems to be the idea that solves more of those limitations than anything else...

[constant-muse.livejournal.com]

Sounds like a great idea. I think it would be fun to write warnings/spoilers for many fics, like mini-recs.

It could be part of the routine for the Reading Room that a post goes on to that comm about a fic when it is first mentioned.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

It is a good idea, isn't it - though I'd hope it wouldn't go too far down the mini-rec line, cos that's what CI5hq is for! If you kill off CI5hq with it, then the people who don't want warnings will lose out completely, and Pros as a community will be split yet again... This is supposed to be a happy compromise for everyone!

[constant-muse.livejournal.com]

I see heliophile also raised the review comm idea. I would see it not so much as splitting the Pros fandom, but diluting the comms further, esp. CI5hq. A divide could develop, however, in that those who like spoilers/warnings might prefer to do all their reccing/reviewing over there.

As I initially understood the idea, it was just to post bare titles of fics with just a few words each, i.e. warning labels. My point above was that it would be quite fun to do that - to read or re-read a fic with a view to 'labelling' it with relevant warnings or other info for the benefit of this comm.

It's for the mod/s of the "spoiler" comm. to decide what categories of information should be posted there (if there is to be any limitation as to categories). If it's quite limited, i.e. the usual warnings, then it wouldn't be a substitute for posts about fics at other comms.
On the other hand, if it is more general 'spoilers', where one described something of the plot, then it would virtually become a mini-review.

[potztausend.livejournal.com]

I am just imagening the warnings about a story *g*:

"Attention: Bodie and Doyle have sex!"

"Read carefully: Bodie and Doyle are in love!"

"Extra precaution: Bodie and Doyle are buying curtains together!"

[lady-meander.livejournal.com]

It's really taken off, hasn't it? It's great to know that the idea might actually work, and that it's getting so much support :)

byslantedlight, thank you so much for making the post, and for turning the idea into something tangible :)

I agree with you that prosficspoilers shouldn't be for reviews, it should only be for spoilers ... letting people know about any warnings there might be, but without giving the story and/or details away. In-depth reviews and discussions should stay at CI5hq.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

It does, it looks like it might be a goer! Thank you for getting in touch with a brilliant idea, and I'm so glad you commented here too! Brilliant ideas all welcome, so if you have any more... *g*

[snailbones.livejournal.com]

I like the idea, though I think you'd probably have to get it up and running to see if it works, if that makes sense *g*

As long as it was easy and simple to use for both readers and writers, I can only see it doing good - it would take the worry away from authors that they're going to under-warn or over-spoil, and readers wouldn't have to risk being spoiled inadvertently. Sounds like all round win *g*

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

It's a goodun, innit - yeay ladymeander!

I think the key is to keep it simple - join, post your spoilers, tag each post with the name of the fic. That's it! *g* It'll depend mostly (like any other comm) on how many people not only say they want spoilers but are willing to go to the effort of posting them there... Then it'll just be a case of making the Fic/Rec header simple to copy and paste from the CI5hq user info page. Which actually it already is - and hurrah that people have started using it again after I did the big slightly-grumpy reminder last week... *g*

[firlefanzine.livejournal.com]

'slightly-grumpy'... I'd say that was more than rude!

Any solutions around for the comm?

[metabolick.livejournal.com]

I'm willing to give it a try and see how it works. I hate to see more "dilution" taking place in Pros fandom on lj. (I even wish that ci5hq could be disbanded and everyone go back to posting at The Safehouse now that the distinct need for ci5hq no longer exists, but that's for another discussion.) If the posts to the Pros spoiler comm were kept to bare bones (story info/warnings only) it might be the way to go. It could be made clear in the comm header the type of info allowed in the posts and the mod could monitor to make sure people comply.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

In the comments above I've said I'm wary of further dilution of the Pros community too - but I don't see that as what proficspoilers would be - more as a tool that is used to help all the Pros comms.

And if you're shutting down CI5hq, then you might as well do Dialj as well, and I'm assuming also teaandswissroll and ci5boxoftricks? It was all originally going on at SH, so presumably nothing else would be required?

[metabolick.livejournal.com]

My point was that, as you say, Proficspoilers could be a tool if used properly.

I have the impression that teaandswissroll was begun because of some dissatisfaction on the part of the founders with the way the other comms were being run, but I could be mistaken. If it's true, I don't know if the issues have been resolved. But from what I can observe of the nature of the posts it does seem redundant and unnecessary.

As ci5boxoftricks was begun for a specific reason, i.e. to facilitate and encourage the participants of the BB challenge, I can see its usefulness. That's probably true of Dialj, with respect to its various challenges. If they help generate more Pros stories, then I see them as a good thing. But strictly speaking, they are not necessary.

[firlefanzine.livejournal.com]

Over at my LJ I've made an example for a post in Prosficspoilers:

http://firlefanzine.livejournal.com/11339.html

How about that? :-)

[kiwisue.livejournal.com]

*Blinks* - that is thorough! *g*

Would just the middle section (the one headed CA, although I'm not sure what that means... "about", as in "About the story"?... guessing, mind) be compulsory for everyone who posted to the comm? I imagine the extra info could be added if people wanted to?

And an index post (or two or three) is an alternative to tagging, definitely.

Do you have the black on black code (http://community.livejournal.com/ci5hq/132122.html?thread=2271514#t2271514) from the other post?

[firlefanzine.livejournal.com]

Thank you for the black on black code! (I'm a bit in a hurry, and I couldn't find it!)

Yes the CA headed part should be compulsory. It's just an example and I thought the one from CA was very usefull.

(Ahem... I don't understand what do you mean with your 'about' question? )

"*Blinks* - that is thorough! *g*"
Well, WTF is something special... :-) Most stories would just have a tiny little header.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Morning! Just commented to Firle, and I'm not sure if you're tracking... *g*

I'd really advise using tags instead of an index post though - the problem with an index post is that only the original author can edit it, so while it works in the long term it'd really mess things up if the author went off to other things/became tangled up in real life and couldn't keep up, etc...

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Good morning!

That looks good to me, although I'm not someone who's fussed about spoilers, so... Nice to include lots of links to different sites with info too. Maybe you should make a post here at CI5hq showing people your idea, and asking if they'd like any other information? Perhaps show them a "more normal" example as well as the "special" WTF? *g*

Hmmn - just had another look at the post and at KWS's comments below, and I'm a bit confused. I started writing about the problems of using an index post rather than tags, but when I looked at your post again I don't think you suggested doing that - I think that was KWS! Anyway...

The only thing I would suggest (from experience of running comms!) is that if you use the index method it's alot of constant work for you as a mod. You see how far behind I get with various posts when it's all about editing an index/photograph/whatever post - and that's actually not laziness on my part, it's busy days, and other things needing attention, and even sometimes work! (*g*)

I think tagging would be a better way of doing it, for a few reasons:
1 - it's quicker to do for each entry
2 - you can either do it yourself via the comm settings, or you can have other mods doing it too, or you can have people tag their own entries as long as you keep the tagging rules simple. Again I'd advise keeping the tags simple - just the title of the fic, unless there are two fics with the same name, then add the author.
3 - in years time, if you move on or away from the fandom or lj or have real life issues taking up more time, someone else can take over easily. The problem with a single index post is that the author of that post is the only one who can ever edit it.

Actually what I *think* you meant is that if more than one person adds information for the same fic, you'd edit it into your original post - the problem there is that you could only edit it into your posts, so if someone else had posted spoilers for a story it wouldn't work.

If you simply tag each entry that adds spoilers, then when someone clicks on a story in the tag list, it would bring up all the posts/information about it - much less work for you!

I think maybe you meant people who added information via comments - but again that would only work if it was your own post they were commenting to. And do you think there would be so many comments that they would be difficult to read? I know that if I want information about something from a post, I always read the comments anyway - I think most people probably do.

But were you thinking of making all the spoiler posts yourself? I was assuming that any member of the community could make spoiler posts, and share the work that way?