The Reading Room - The Chameleon's Dish by Kitty Fisher

[inlovewithboth.livejournal.com]

This is my first rec for the Reading Room, so I hope I'm doing this right....

http://www.devinemadness.com/kittyfisher/dish.htm

"Eight years, and you've changed, sweetheart."

I don't want to spoil things if this is anyone's first read so I won't go into the story. I'll just say that I wanted to rec The Chameleon's Dish because no matter how much time goes by, I keep going back to it for yet another read.

Comments

[barush.livejournal.com]

Well, I must say I liked the fic a lot :)

In the beginning, the suspense was so intense that I couldn't stop reading. I knew there was smt up with Bodie, but I'd never guess correctly. It was just... wow. However, the change of heart seemed a bit cheesy to me at first, after the rape and all, but the h/c was so well written that the author did convince me that they could find a way back together :) Same goes for the unexpected visit of the 'good' terrorists. Even though in the latter case I wasn't really persuaded, but hey, it's fiction :) And the ending of course was really sweet :) So all in all, I enjoyed the story :)

[inlovewithboth.livejournal.com]

First time I read it I couldn't see how they could possibly move on after the betrayal and rape, and the way it was written made me feel so sorry for both of them. Glad you enjoyed it!

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

I do really like the first part of this -- the cat and mouse game Bodie plays with Doyle -- and even though partner rape is not one of my kinks, weirdly enough I don't mind it in this context.

Where it starts to fall apart for me is after Bodie's change of heart (a great scene) and Doyle's rescue. I find the last third really unsatisfying. They behave so...implausibly and illogically. Doyle forgives too fast and, the make-up sex is addressed in a relatively frivolous fashion. Worst of all, in my opinion, is that they never really talk.

Let me correct that, because they actually do talk quite a bit (and I'm not one for long, emotional discussions between blokes). For me, the problem is they never really SAY anything in their lengthy discussions. It's that kind of...glancing discourse where the author hasn't quite nailed down what needs to be addressed and resolved. So the conversation never quite gets to the emotional core of the story. At least for me.

It gets way too mushy for me at the end, and yet it doesn't satisfy.

This probably sounds like I don't like the fic, but it's one I do re-read because I like the first half -- two-thirds? -- so much. Very dark and angsty -- I like partner betrayal if the betrayal isn't absolutely unforgivable (and I guess unforgivable is subjective).

Fisher's writing really varies for me from story to story. Some of it is very good, some of it seems a bit overwrought. I think she captures some very good visual stuff in this one. Especially of Doyle.

I think it's an excellent rec and I'll be interested to read what others think.

[barush.livejournal.com]

I had pretty much exactly the same thoughts after finishing the story. The last part, when they come back to London, isn't as good as the rest of the story, but I guess I'm rather quick to forgive, as I love fluff as well... :)

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

as I love fluff as well... :)

Hey, there's nothing wrong with good fluff!

[firlefanzine.livejournal.com]

" Doyle forgives too fast... Worst of all, in my opinion, is that they never really talk....Let me correct that, because they actually do talk quite a bit (and I'm not one for long, emotional discussions between blokes).
I agree. I really was looking if there were a few pages missing. Doyle forgives much too quickly - he even blames himself... *rolls eyes*
And I had the same bad feeling about some dialogues in the end. Quite talkative but they never come to the point. I mean - Bodie's betrayal and rape is something so terrible nobody could forget so easily...

Maybe it would have been a good project for two authors?

Anyway - a damn thrilling fic!

[moth2fic.livejournal.com]

I'm going to disagree with you all - but I suppose that's what the Reading Room is all about!

I hated this. I hate rape!fic, especially when the rapist then gets together with his victim. Hate, hate, hate. (And, btw, do not really believe).

That apart: there was far too much telling and not showing in the early part with all the flashbacks or rather the characters thinking about the backstory. There were too many p.o.v. switches within paragraphs - and yes, that does put a lot of readers off, and yes, I’m one of them. There were plotholes and gaps in the story/explanations, such as the initial idea that Doyle had his car in London but didn’t need to be there often then later he was there all the time and had a flat there. There were roller-coaster switches in thinking by both men which I suppose was intentional but the one where Bodie thought Ray would be sensible enough to give up the info and the next paragraph thought he’d be too stubborn really threw me. I got quite confused by the plot. I worked with Libyan students during the period in question (and was even involved with Special Branch investigations). Despite speaking Arabic they do not think of or refer to themselves as Arabs. Brits don’t call them Arabs, either, as a rule. I also got confused in the final sex scene - I found it difficult to follow.

Then there were quite a few language errors that jarred. Two of the worst I noted were:

Despite the fact that sleep had eventually claimed him, Doyle woke early. Huh?? What?? Sleep would have to have claimed him for him to wake up at all, never mind early.

... go where neither the police or the Arabs can't find us. Double negatives are always an irritation.

Maybe I wouldn’t have noticed the errors, or would have forgiven them, in a better story, but as I say, I hated it and only finished it because I had to know they were at least still alive and also to make sense of the Reading Room discussion!

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

I'm going to disagree with you all - but I suppose that's what the Reading Room is all about!

All part of the fun. I've read stuff here I'd never have got through without a rec. *g*

I hated this. I hate rape!fic, especially when the rapist then gets together with his victim. Hate, hate, hate. (And, btw, do not really believe).

I generally avoid rape fics like the plague, but the first time I read this, I had no idea what it was about -- and in those days I didn't read the endings first (which I always do now). So...I was sort of invested in the story by the time I got to that scene. I was madly curious about what was going to happen.

Now you bring up believability. No, I don't believe in any of this for one instant. But I find that's not usually make or break for me in a fic. I was entertained enough that I was willing to go along.

I think SC Fossil mentioned this not being "her" lads, but really very few stories are ever "my" lads. I seem to enjoy the stories best where there's a recognizable enough of what I like in the characters, but then again there are some readings that are quite off, and yet I still really like the stories. And yet there are stories that are equally "off" that I can't get past a paragraph or two. Same with some stories that seem well-written enough but...not my thing.

I have no idea why that would be. Maybe because even in a story where the lads are not quite the lads, there's enough I recognize of the characters I love?

That apart: there was far too much telling and not showing in the early part with all the flashbacks or rather the characters thinking about the backstory. There were too many p.o.v. switches within paragraphs - and yes, that does put a lot of readers off, and yes, I’m one of them. There were plotholes and gaps in the story/explanations

Yep, this is all true.

It's a puzzling thing about reading for pleasure -- if I enjoy a story enough I can ignore things that I'd shred another writer for. And yet what those magical elements are is something I've yet to nail down to my satisfactiion. It's probably a combination of writing, characterization, storytelling...but getting the balance is the trick.

[moth2fic.livejournal.com]

if I enjoy a story enough I can ignore things that I'd shred another writer for

I suppose that's what it 'boils down to' in the end. I didn't enjoy the story so I can't get past the flaws, rather than the other way round. I can't believe in rape growing out of revenge - it's a power/control thing (or sadism, which has similar roots) and I can't see Bodie as sufficiently disturbed to carry it through. It isn't spur of the moment, either, unless the rapist is drunk, perhaps. And the scale of the revenge part - the handing over to hitmen - staggers belief too. As someone else has said, a Bodie who doesn't realise he's handing Doyle over to death or at least severe harm is simply not Bodie. And a Doyle who could forgive this cold-blooded evil is not Doyle. Yes, people can and do blame themselves for all sorts of things, even rape and physical harm but they rarely forgive the rapists/perpetrators unless it's some kind of Stockhausen syndrome and a 'kiss and make up' based on that gives me the shudders. So the story doesn't lead me to 'suspend disbelief' unless I then believe in something that horrifies me. Does that make sense? As a result I'm all the more aware of other flaws - and have to say that if it hadn't been for the discussion I wouldn't have finished it!

But yes, it's good to discuss, and to read things you wouldn't, otherwise, in order to think and engage in discussion. So I'm still grateful for the rec!

[firlefanzine.livejournal.com]

The fic has a certain reputation.
Call me a coward, I've read the end first.
So... – all will be well? Let's see!

After that it was a surprisingly exciting story.

You sit there, you read it and you can't believe it. You want to shake Bodie and stop him.
You repeat it in your mind –
'No! Bodie. This is Ray. Your Ray. How can you do this to him? How can you do this to anybody? What has happened to you...?'

But you can't stop reading!

However I can't follow the quick forgiveness of Doyle, and I miss a real coming to terms with the betrayal and the rape
- but I love the descriptions of the h/c!

And I'm very fond of the second group of Libyans in their bedroom! :-)
What a perfect twist to avoid any punishment of our heroes!

Thank you for that rec!

[inlovewithboth.livejournal.com]

This is so brilliant, I'm having a ball. Why haven't I reccd a fic before?!!! It is SO great to read all your comments and viewpoints, all about a story which is one of my all time top 10 faves.

[shooting2kill.livejournal.com]

I don’t much like rape fics either, I mean there’s never that much *to* like about rape really, but I thought the beauty of the first part carried (and dominated over) the slightly inferior second half of the story (as I think others have mentioned). In fact I loved the first part so much that like inlovewithboth, The Chameleon Dish has become a much read story. A favourite story? Possibly, not sure, but definitely one I associate with pleasure and fondness. So why is that? I think it has one of the best introductions there is, one of the most enigmatic and inviting of introductions and one which made me want to read on..... and, as always with favourite stories, I could really see them together in that pub, one watching the other. I loved the mystery and enigma that was Bodie; the mystery of the courtship - like Doyle, asking myself what was Bodie up to? When was he going to touch or kiss him and that first brush of the lips had me on the edge of my seat. And then you get the second part.......I thought the scene where Bodie comes to his senses, returns and joins forces with Doyle was done quite well and was exciting reading, but when I look back on the story, the things which first come to mind are their initial meeting up and (kind of) courtship and I tend not to dwell on what happened next.

I’d love to know the reasons why you love it so much, inlovewithboth? I wouldn’t worry too much about spoilers as we’ve all mentioned the most important things and I think the fact that there will be spoilers goes without saying in these dicussions. Many thanks for the rec!

[sc-fossil.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the rec. I read this a long while ago, so I thought I'd try again, thinking maybe I was too harsh with my opinion before. A second read brings up one question:

Who are these two unlikeable, cruel, disrespectful men?

[inlovewithboth.livejournal.com]

That's really hard for me to answer, seeings as I love the story! Do you find nothing at all in the story that you like?

[firlefanzine.livejournal.com]

You opinion is exactly what I expected for myself!
As I said above - I've heard a lot of this fic, and in my to-read-list there is a big note with a huge 'never' for it... (The same I can say for 'your' rec Consequences.)

But in fact I don't think that they are unlikable - just miserable.
Cruel? Yes, but as well very caring.

Disrespectful? I don't think so, because everyone sees his own faults in the end and forgives the other.

So, I was positively surprised!

[jaicen5.livejournal.com]

I read this a while ago. From memory, I thought it was well written but I didn't like it mainly for two reasons.

I could never ever see Bodie settng Doyle up to be handed over to unfriendly forces, no matter what Doyle had done (and Bodie's not idiotic enough to believe Doyle wouldn't come to harm - that goes against his whole characer).

And Doyle wouldn't forgive that quickly or that easily. Doyle has much more spine than that.

[firlefanzine.livejournal.com]

Of course you are right, when you think about it. But I've reread parts of it today. And again I think that it's very well written! - in a manner that you can believe it - while you read it...! ;-)
At least we don't know much about the last eight years. And even their last time together had been 'different' in the universe of the KF's story, because there was Ann Holly again.

So, although I'm not happy about that develeopment - I take it as a very thrilling story, and will certainly reread it.

(But now I need a good old trust-und-happy-love story!!!) :-)

The negotiator and the hitman

[constant-muse.livejournal.com]

I get in a cold sweat just looking at Kitty Fisher's website, so I've only just now finished reading the fic for the first time.
The lady doesn't mince her words!

barush and jgraeme2007 have summed up my reaction, much better than I could.

I love her mysterious 'saturnine' Bodie (but the tan is a bit difficult to imagine) and sensuous Doyle (even if he is a bit on the small and frail side). And I love too Doyle using his taste for jeans and casual clothes as part of his public image (a bit of a Richard Branson?).

Since we get both pov's (and I agree, it is a bit dizzying at times), it seems unbalanced that we know all about Doyle's life after CI5, but almost nothing about Bodie's. Probably helps with the suspense thing.

Luckily I'm not squicky about rape in fic when there's a good reason for it, and here it was crucial, literally it was the turning point - the catharsis for Bodie, the beginning of him starting to regret his scheme to betray Doyle.

Maybe this is so obvious that no one else has bothered to mention it, but to me the plot is based on balancing two Big Things. First, Doyle's rejection of Bodie who (known to him?) had loved him for years. Doyle was so consumed with guilt and self-hatred that even if Bodie had returned with an olive branch, their relationship would have been fatally unbalanced. Second, Bodie's betrayal of Doyle, which perversely evens the score.

At the climax (ahem) of the final sex scene, we have an image of a phoenix (not a chameleon)- the past has been burnt away and they can start again anew. It is fic, after all.

Thanks for the rec, ILWB, I'm glad you're glad you volunteered. *g*

Re: The negotiator and the hitman

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

Maybe this is so obvious that no one else has bothered to mention it, but to me the plot is based on balancing two Big Things. First, Doyle's rejection of Bodie who (known to him?) had loved him for years. Doyle was so consumed with guilt and self-hatred that even if Bodie had returned with an olive branch, their relationship would have been fatally unbalanced. Second, Bodie's betrayal of Doyle, which perversely evens the score.

Yes. And I think this is why I can kind of go along with this idea of "rape."

I mean, I'm sure none of us find rape romantic or entertaining or condone it, but this kind of sexual trespass where the reader knows both characters really love each other is more literary trope than anything.

At the climax (ahem) of the final sex scene, we have an image of a phoenix (not a chameleon)- the past has been burnt away and they can start again anew. It is fic, after all.

I think that's definitely what Fisher was aiming for. I don't feel she pulled it off, but that's where my need for satisfying resolution through a combination of dialog and action comes in. In the hurt/comfort left me feeling let down. Though it's hard to analyze why.

Re: The negotiator and the hitman

[raven-rs.livejournal.com]

Yep, I couldn't have put it better.

I like this story. The beginning is stronger than the end, which feels a little rushed to me. But despite that, I still like it. I like the ambiguity; not all questions are answered; nothing is quite black and white. And while rape is inexcusable, we have a Bodie who gave his heart to Doyle - offered him everything he had and was - only to have it thrown back at him, spurned and then ridiculed. Bodie is in immense pain, and he reacts accordingly. It's cold-blooded, but there is a coldness to Bodie, a callousness. I can see him planning such a cold-hearted revenge, and then coming to his senses.

Re: The negotiator and the hitman

[inlovewithboth.livejournal.com]

Thanks for being so helpful and encouraging. And I agree that a Phoenix is more appropriate than the Chameleon of the title!

Re: The negotiator and the hitman

[shooting2kill.livejournal.com]

Luckily I'm not squicky about rape in fic when there's a good reason for it, and here it was crucial, literally it was the turning point - the catharsis for Bodie, the beginning of him starting to regret his scheme to betray Doyle.

Good point.

At the climax (ahem) of the final sex scene, we have an image of a phoenix (not a chameleon)- the past has been burnt away and they can start again anew. It is fic, after all.

I think that's a great way of looking at it, I like it!

[siskiou.livejournal.com]

Very late, but I just finished this, and am still trying to figure out what events exactly the motivation for Bodie's insiduous plan was based on.

It sounds like Bodie had horrible timing, declaring Ray was his, right when he had proposed to Ann. And in a very off-putting manner.

Doyle's POV:
His return had brought back a host of unwanted memories, but also had revived the aching need his presence had always seemed to produce. Not that Doyle had ever admitted it to himself; that had been part of the trouble.That, and completely misreading Bodie's motives when, on Doyle announcing his engagement, Bodie had turned around and claimed him for himself. Doyle could play the game of 'if only' until the cows came home, but in his heart he wished that Bodie had been less demanding, acting less as if Doyle was his by right and had no say in the matter at all. Though in the end, it would probably have made no difference.

Here is Bodie's POV:
But then even that had worn thin and he'd had to admit friendship, and later, something stronger. Trust his luck to wait too long, to let Doyle get involved with that ball–breaker. Made a compete mess of it didn't you, letting your balls speak rather than your brain. Didn't excuse Doyle's reaction though. The remembered words could still sear, and the pain that had sent him storming into Cowley's office hadn't softened with time.

Doyle then rejected Bodie in a very hurtful way and Bodie quit and left the next day.

What a mess. Even now Doyle felt sick at the remembered hurt and despair that had enveloped him and made him shy from the cold manipulation and possessiveness he saw behind Bodie's behaviour. That he'd failed to see the misery and fear behind the arrogant facade was typical. Bodie had always been his blind spot: brilliant at reading the motives and thoughts of strangers, his own unspoken needs blinded him where Bodie was concerned. Turning round and telling him that his offer of love was disgusting had been the last straw; they had fought until, turning on his heel, Bodie had stalked out of the flat.

And they never spoke again until 8 years later?

Or were Bodie and Doyle intimate already before? I don't believe so, based on Bodie's comment above (trust his luck to wait too long).

Was Bodie's proposal the turning event for Doyle (that he was attracted to men, and particularly Bodie)?
And once he realized what he had lost and how his humiliating rejection had affected Bodie, he let himself drown in guilt and sought out other men? More as a punishment than anything else?

Bodie, meanwhile, kept tabs on Doyle, and developed an all encompassing hatred, to the point of not caring if he got killed (because, imo, he must have known his "employers" weren't just going to hold Doyle for a week and rough him up a bit, even when in denial.)?

I wonder why he waited so long?

I guess I have more questions than answers, but still thought the beginning was interesting and well written.

But then Doyle taking on all the guilt, including "making Bodie rape him" and was pretty much immediately forgiving and trusting Bodie, and pushing an intimate relationship, really threw me for a loop.

After that, I couldn't quite get past my disbelief that the Bodie and Doyle from this story could build a loving and lasting relationship so easily.

First Doyle was punishing himself for the way he had treated Bodie, and at the end it's Bodie with the heavy guilt, but does that really get them back to being equal?

[inlovewithboth.livejournal.com]

Wow, you've really thought this through carefully, haven't you? I love that you've done this, because you've asked questions that haven't even occurred to me before. Thanks for giving me something new to think about next time I read it.

[moth2fic.livejournal.com]

You summed it up really well.

For me the story ended in the ashes of the rape and betrayal. There was none of the phoenix effect that other people have mentioned. The story after that was just so much wishful thinking along extremely fanciful lines by an author trying to make something appalling better. It didn't work.