Kathy Keegan

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

I've been reading a Kathy Keegan fic most recently - "Survival Run", which is actually the last in a four-part series, although I've not read the other parts. It sort of stands alone as an adventure-y piece though, because there's huge amounts of explanation in there about what's gone before, and it occured to me that that's what's getting to me these days about KK fic...

Explanation!

It seems as if every word out of the lads' mouths is an explanation of either what they're doing, or else something in the world in general, and it's driving me batty, because I just don't see either Bodie or Doyle talking like that in the eps! I mean yes, every now and then there's a little exposition-y moment, but... it's not lengthy, emotional dialogue. Even when Bodie was telling Doyle about the girl he loved and lost in Africa he managed it in about three sentences of barely half a dozen words each - it was everything else about him at the time that told the other half of the story, the way he stood so still, with his back to Doyle, the look in his eyes...

That said, I remember reading and adoring Fancy Dancing the first time around - even though I found it harder going on the re-read, and then almost impossible the third time... odd how that works!

Anyway - I decided to start today by doing something useful, so I've managed to gather together an as-complete-as-currently-possible list of all Kathy Keegan's Pros fic over at Palelyloitering.com. I've not read them all, and they don't all have links to fic pages about them yet, but they're there! Of course the odds are high that it's not a complete list at all, which leads me to a request or two... or three *g*

1. Does anyone know of any Kathy Keegan Pros fic that's not on the list?

2. Someone asked me to rec a KK fic - I couldn't! Has anyone got any Kathy Keegan fics that they really like?

3. Of course I'm hoping to have complete lists of fic for as many Pros authors as I possibly can - that's half the point of Palelyloitering after all - and I have done it for some other authors, but... any requests for who I should concentrate on next? First person to respond... *g*

Comments

[nakeisha.livejournal.com]

I love Kathy Keegan and Jane (whether they are one and the same I know not). For me she is one of the best Pros writers around; she writes the boys I personally see.

Off hand I can't see anything missing, but I'd need to go through my zines (I've gone through her on-line stuff).

As for recc'ing, well I personally would rec my 'if you could only take one zine with you when your house burnt down' zine - Gentle On My Mind (which I know is, strictly, speaking more than one zine (4 in all) *g* so I'd take the first zine. I just love it.

Sorry - I know it's not the done thing to like Kathy and/or Jane and I generally tend not to openly say so for fear of ridicule (I'm not saying you, BTW, but I've seen folk laughed at for liking her/them). But hey, I love her.

If you want an easy list of my Pros fic, nicely filed by title with links as also notes to whether it's zine fic and the zine if so or on-line it's in my links list of LJ - Bodie/Doyle Stories (http://nakeisha.livejournal.com/302290.html) just to make life easy for you should you wish to have them.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the quick check of KK stories! *g* And thanks too for the links list to your fic - I don't think I've even started your page yet, and that'll make it so much easier! I'm off to work now, but I shall get your story list up tonight, and the links as soon as I get a chance after that... *g*

You know, I totally don't get the whole "done thing" thing... I always think the whole point of Pros and fandom and these places where we share something that we all adore is that we're people from a billion different places and mindsets who've come together - I know I'd never have met half the people I have in "real life", because it looks on the surface as though we don't have much in common. But we do, and it's fab. *g*

I mean, so what if you love KK and I don't? *g* Whatever the "done thing" is, I bet it's not to adore M. Fae Glasgow either - and I totally do, and I don't care who laughs at me. I always think that sort of reaction shows up the people who laugh, because they clearly have no understanding of the fabulousness of diversity. It's fun to hear about why someone else loves KK, and find out what someone else gets from Jane, whether I get the same thing or not. If I thought differently, then I'd have to take down all my websites and ljs and just shut up, now wouldn't I... *g*

There's two sides, I suppose - don't be mean if someone likes something you don't, and don't be offended if someone doesn't like something you do (generic you, of course!). And there's the added complication of "tone" and misunderstandings when people chat online too - we can't read each other's faces and eyes to see how serious we are about things... But... it's good to hear differing opinions, and talk about why we think different things - isn't it?!

[nakeisha.livejournal.com]

You're welcome. You have one entry on my page from one of the SAMs :-) (I write under Darby Brennan) I keep the list updated to help my sanity.

I don't get the 'done thing' either, I have to say. And I agree entirely with what you say, but sadly it does seem in Pros that there is this 'thou shalt like xxxx and not like xxxx' I still remember from six years ago being told 'it's okay to like Jane when you first get into Pros but then you'll grow out of her'.

Exactly! And Ah, actually it is very much the 'done thing' to like M Fae Glasgow, so you're okay there ;-) Personally I don't care for her, I admire her skill, but her portrayal of the boys and her stories aren't for me. But I'm not going to tell anyone they shouldn't read her.

Diversity is what it is all about. And there is enough different writers and styles in Pros to keep everyone happy.

*Nods again* Oh, yes. I do agree. And there can indeed be misunderstandings on-line, but there's also times when the meaning is totally clear! And that's very sad. It is very good to hear differing opinions, I always enjoy a good debate, as long as things stay respectful on both sides.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Ha - you know, almost everyone I chat to has said they're not actually that keen on M.Fae, which just goes to show! From one pov I'm all "in with the done thing", from another I'm totally not! *g*

'it's okay to like Jane when you first get into Pros but then you'll grow out of her'
Well - that's one person's opinion, and I hope you told her so! To be honest that is what happened to me - I did like Jane at first, but my tastes changed and she didn't fit in with my thoughts any more. There's no "it's okay" about it though - that's just what happened, it's a fact, whether it's "okay" with anyone else or not! Some people just need slapping across the head with a wet fish, I reckon... *g*

I dunno - I suppose that Pros fandom seems so fluid to me (there's very few of the people I interact with now who were here when I first found the fandom, or even two years ago - let alone six! *g*) that I don't see how there can be a "done thing". Except maybe for netiquette things like "don't spoiler people who don't like it", "don't flame people" etc. *g* And there are so many more people out there reading and lurking than there are being noisy and posting that... well how can anyone see any "real" "done thing" anyway?!

On the bright side - I managed to get your list up over lunch! *g* Here it is - hope it looks okay (http://www.palelyloitering.com/Authors/DarbyBrennan.html)! I've been thinking that it'd be nice to put up a little bio about the author's who didn't object too - just along the lines of "DB is an English writer, currently living in the wilds of Scotland (did I get that right?!). She is also active in fandoms X, Y and Z, but has been writing Pros for 10 happy years, and..." What do you think? I've always wanted to know little things like that about Pros writers, and I know other people wonder now and then... Would you be up for something like that at the top of your Palelyloitering entry? (Oh, I did know you were DB, btw - we just don't seem to bump into each other much! *g*)

Darn it - now I really do have to go to work!

[squeeful.livejournal.com]

Explanation!

It seems as if every word out of the lads' mouths is an explanation of either what they're doing, or else something in the world in general

There's that oft-quoted but still generally true writing commandment of "show, don't tell." Works for dialog too, only there the phrase I hear is "on the nose"; if something's too "on the nose", you'll get asked to change it. People usually talk around things until driven into that corner and even then will try and find something less...revealing, I suppose.

Sometimes I appreciate nose-center dialog because damn I can be slow sometimes to pick up what people mean. I'll get to a big reveal and be all "...huh?"

[krisserci5.livejournal.com]

Birds of Ill Omen, this is my favorite of Keegan's. I like the premise and so it delights me. When I read any fic, I want to "see" my Bodie and Doyle.

In this story I found them, so it worked. Not all of hers work, but I never expect to like all of an author's work.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

I know I've read that one, but I don't remember it offhand - cheers for the rec!

We all have our own views of the lads too, so some stories work for us, some stories don't - but then, the more variety in stories the more people are going to find something they like! I think..?! *g*

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

only there the phrase I hear is "on the nose"; if something's too "on the nose", you'll get asked to change it
Hmmn - maybe it's because it's still early in my morning, but I'm not sure what you mean by this? To me "on the nose" means "accurate", so..? I'm confused!

Dialogue is hard, because when we're really talking to people we pick up alot from their expression, gestures and body language too, and in a fic you have to show that somehow... We're all a bit telepathic, especially with our mates, so that one sentence leads you both to think of something, and you don't need to say it out loud to know - you just catch each other's eye, like the lads do all the time... But writers have to find a way to tell readers what that unsaid thought was, and the realisations that followed it, also unsaid, and... Before you know it - explain-y! *g*

I tend to go for stories that are more show than tell - although that can definitely go too far the other way occasionally, so that you've no idea what the author's talking about! Like everything, it's about balance... And personal taste - I personally hate things being spelled out slowly and what seems to me ad nauseum, but I'm sure not everyone sees them that way! I'd guess KK likes to read things that explain the world and people to her...

[krisserci5.livejournal.com]

the more variety in stories the more people are going to find something they like! I think..?! *g*

Exactly, I love the wide varity and range we find in this fandom!

[squeeful.livejournal.com]

Too accurate yes. Too *hand wave-y* too close to what you mean. People don't come out and say exactly what they're thinking or why, short of a therapy session or amazingly well-adjusted couples and families. But even then, not always. They hint, sometimes really big hints, but hinting nonetheless. What makes an awkward scene awkward or seduction seductive isn't what you come out and say, but a combination of what you don't say and what else you mean with what you do. Subtext. Everything you say has subtext. Even chatting about the weather has subtext. When your subtext is the dialog, it's on the nose. ...I should just cut to that last sentence, shouldn't I?

Heh, I'm very very reliant on physical movement. I suck at faces; can't remember people from a photograph or description, but give me a hand gesture or way of walking and bam, I'll know you. But a lot of my "huh?" moments are really just me.

[nakeisha.livejournal.com]

*Glares at LJ* it hid your reply from me *sigh*

Oh, really? That's interesting, as most folk I've heard comment about her really love her and hold her up as one of the top writers.

Well - that's one person's opinion, and I hope you told her so!

IMS I was just so open-mouthed that someone would come out and say it, and mean it too and be so earnest about it (it was actually a face-to-face meeting) that I kind of mumbled something. Sadly it did not give me a rosy view of Pros fandom, as it was quite near to me getting into it and I'd already heard lots of negatives. But I hasten to add the positives soon overcame the negatives.

I've had that happen with authors, as you say tastes and views change - so I have no problem with that. Just in being told what I'm going to like and not like :-)

Thinking about Pros fen and interacting; I'm still in regular contact with two of my earliest Pros friends and both are still to an extent involved with Pros and I have others too where the friendship goes back several years. Well quite!

It looks fine, thank you - sorry I didn't comment immediately *glares at LJ again* I'm quite happy for something like that to go up, I really am. I've actually been writing Pros for seven years and fanfic for nine. But yes, I'd be quite happy.

I thought you would know I was DB, but just mentioned it in passing - and indeed we don't often bump.

Work does get in the way of enjoyment.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Ack - another delayed reaction reply I'm afraid, sorry!

Totally with you about real life dialogue being made hugely of subtext (and context!). So - when you said if something's too "on the nose" you'll get asked to change it - you meant by the people who don't understand the subtext from the dialogue?! Sorry if I'm being thick! (And if you've totally forgotten what this conversation was about then feel free to ignore me now!)

Kathy Keegan & Jane of Australia Info

[taverymate.livejournal.com]

Trying to catch up with various Pros things, so forgive the delayed response. Just sent off an email to you with info on Kathy Keegan's and Jane of Australia's Pros stories. I compiled the info last September for another Pros fan who was looking for Jane and Kathy Keegan's Pros stories and having a hard time knowing what existed and where it could be found.

So I went through my database and other info sources and produced a list of ALL Jane's and Kathy Keegan's Pros stories and zines that I know about, broken out into sections: novels, anthologies, multi-media zines, letterzines. It also lists the various story series so that a reader can be sure they have all parts, as few things make me more frustrated as a reader than finding out I'm missing a story/book/zine in a series.

Haven't had a chance to check it against your Palely Loitering list yet, so not sure if I have stories you missed or not. But even if you have all the stories, I hope the additional info and breakout will prove useful.

If the email doesn't get through - let me know and I'll resend it.

Re: Kathy Keegan & Jane of Australia Info

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

You know that's something I love about lj, people can reply to what seem like really "old" conversations, but actually the conversation is all right there to re-read and get back into, in one neat place!

And as for the KK/Jane list - you're a complete star! I did receive your email safely, and I've written back too - via two different formats, actually, as I think your AOHell may well be eating my emails - I hope you get at least one of them, if not do let me know!

I shall get the information up as quickly as possible - shall just copy your list over at first, if that's alright with you, so that people have the lists, and then shall format it properly when I get a chance...

And the companion/series list is brilliant as well - I know just what you mean about that, which is why I've got the "Universe" page over at pl. I was finding it almost impossible to source the "Fox and Wolf" universe, and I decided that was a necessary part of the website!