as long as an author is just exaggerating a character rather than completely misrepresenting them ... the chance to play around with canon and make of the characters what you will. Ooh, this is interesting, because actually it's just what I don't want from a fic! Well, to a certain point, anyway... I don't want authors making what they will of our lads' characters, because it's their characters that I like in the eps! If I can't see at least a decent dollop of those ep-characters, then I can't believe in the story, because it might as well be about other people with the same names.
Actually that's probably not quite what you mean anyway, and not entirely what i mean. I mean Sebastian exaggerates Doyle's vindictiveness, and I can still go along with her stories. And Rhiannon makes the lads into completely other people - but they work for me, because I can see the essence of our lads there, in pretty much everything they do. And I don't think I can see Bodie's essence in this story, and I'm not convinced that his essence could emerge from what we're told of him so far...
No, I think it’s partly because the darker and more unreachable Bodie is depicted, then the more intriguing/fascinating is the eventual relationship between him and Doyle (and the fact that it's happened in the first place). Interesting again... (you always write interesting things!) I like the idea of their eventual relationship emerging from interesting places too (although I also like the idea that they turn out to be so similar, deep down, that they're automatically them-against-the-world *g*). I'm just not convinced that Bodie is that unreachable... if anything, I'd almost say that ep-Doyle was the unreachable one, because although we see him being friendly with people, we also see him being very violent (more so than Bodie, perhaps - I keep coming back to the number of people he throws off buildings!). So - would it work for you if the difficulty between their relationship was actually on Doyle's side, rather than Bodie's? That there was something dark and unreachable about Doyle that had to be surmounted?
I just can't see Bodie being such a cold-blooded killer - in fact worse, enjoying it "...even the knowledge of having killed him cannot quench his thirst to do it again." (the violent beating someone up in cold blood to the point that they could die, even if he didn't mean to actually kill him). In fact in Heroes Bodie says to Doyle that the difference between him and Tommy is that Bodie doesn't like it. BODIE: Tommy's a lousy thing to be, he's a killer. DOYLE: And what makes you so different? BODIE: The difference is, Doyle, I do it, but I don't enjoy it. As you say, someone might die "by accident" (although I'm kind of on Mather's (and real life's!) side there - you shouldn't be hitting people so hard that it turns out to be a possibility!) and it happened to Doyle in The Rack, but it's not the first time that Bodie's killed someone in custody, according to Marsh, and he doesn't seem to have learned where to draw the line, or that he should draw one - "Suspects die unexpectedly in holding cells." - plural.
All that said, I suppose there is the line - "...facing...a return to private soldiering. To friendlessness, dishonour and African dust" Which doesn't quite fit with the idea that Bodie doesn't mind killing people as murder/against common honour/decency. So now that strikes me as something else that should have been betad away...
Also, actually, I can't really believe in a Cowley who forgives Bodie for a man's death just because he got the information he wanted first. I can see him forgiving Bodie for it, but not for that reason. Cowley's cold-blooded (e.g. shooting Manton), but I don't think he lets his agents be like that except under strict orders (although now I'm thinking about that too - hmmn, does he?)
somehow I couldn’t see Murphy in the SAS - he seems too laid back and relaxed! Yes! That's what was bugging me, but I didn't realise it! I totally agree with this!
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timeasmymeasure
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Date: 2019-04-07 10:29 am (UTC)Ooh, this is interesting, because actually it's just what I don't want from a fic! Well, to a certain point, anyway... I don't want authors making what they will of our lads' characters, because it's their characters that I like in the eps! If I can't see at least a decent dollop of those ep-characters, then I can't believe in the story, because it might as well be about other people with the same names.
Actually that's probably not quite what you mean anyway, and not entirely what i mean. I mean Sebastian exaggerates Doyle's vindictiveness, and I can still go along with her stories. And Rhiannon makes the lads into completely other people - but they work for me, because I can see the essence of our lads there, in pretty much everything they do. And I don't think I can see Bodie's essence in this story, and I'm not convinced that his essence could emerge from what we're told of him so far...
No, I think it’s partly because the darker and more unreachable Bodie is depicted, then the more intriguing/fascinating is the eventual relationship between him and Doyle (and the fact that it's happened in the first place).
Interesting again... (you always write interesting things!) I like the idea of their eventual relationship emerging from interesting places too (although I also like the idea that they turn out to be so similar, deep down, that they're automatically them-against-the-world *g*). I'm just not convinced that Bodie is that unreachable... if anything, I'd almost say that ep-Doyle was the unreachable one, because although we see him being friendly with people, we also see him being very violent (more so than Bodie, perhaps - I keep coming back to the number of people he throws off buildings!). So - would it work for you if the difficulty between their relationship was actually on Doyle's side, rather than Bodie's? That there was something dark and unreachable about Doyle that had to be surmounted?
I just can't see Bodie being such a cold-blooded killer - in fact worse, enjoying it "...even the knowledge of having killed him cannot quench his thirst to do it again." (the violent beating someone up in cold blood to the point that they could die, even if he didn't mean to actually kill him). In fact in Heroes Bodie says to Doyle that the difference between him and Tommy is that Bodie doesn't like it.
BODIE: Tommy's a lousy thing to be, he's a killer.
DOYLE: And what makes you so different?
BODIE: The difference is, Doyle, I do it, but I don't enjoy it.
As you say, someone might die "by accident" (although I'm kind of on Mather's (and real life's!) side there - you shouldn't be hitting people so hard that it turns out to be a possibility!) and it happened to Doyle in The Rack, but it's not the first time that Bodie's killed someone in custody, according to Marsh, and he doesn't seem to have learned where to draw the line, or that he should draw one - "Suspects die unexpectedly in holding cells." - plural.
All that said, I suppose there is the line - "...facing...a return to private soldiering. To friendlessness, dishonour and African dust" Which doesn't quite fit with the idea that Bodie doesn't mind killing people as murder/against common honour/decency. So now that strikes me as something else that should have been betad away...
Also, actually, I can't really believe in a Cowley who forgives Bodie for a man's death just because he got the information he wanted first. I can see him forgiving Bodie for it, but not for that reason. Cowley's cold-blooded (e.g. shooting Manton), but I don't think he lets his agents be like that except under strict orders (although now I'm thinking about that too - hmmn, does he?)
somehow I couldn’t see Murphy in the SAS - he seems too laid back and relaxed!
Yes! That's what was bugging me, but I didn't realise it! I totally agree with this!