Thanks for considering this and I knew the *rumour* came from somewhere but coudn't think of specifics...
I do agree that there are lots of examples where he's shown to be quite idealistic and yes, Cowley actually says that of him, but I'm not sure that idealism or even caring for people and society itself e.g. not having enough doctors, is the sole property of socialists. Victorian philanthropists and so-called New Liberals at the turn of the century (and the great Liberal himself, Lloyd George) have an admirable record - in some ways unequalled - when it comes to social improvement. But I know what you mean and thanks for reminding me with some very good examples! And yes, as you say, he does have certain left-leaning tendencies (apart from his other tendencies).
As for calling women "slags" being a sign of misogyny (cf calling men "bastards"?) I'm not sure that I necessarily equate socialism with a lack of sexism to be honest - different things, they are! I've known some very sexist socialists!
Yeah, I know what you mean.... and tight-fisted bastards a lot of them are too, but that's another story.....I suppose I'm thinking of the traditional socialist belief in equality, whether it be equality of income, opportunity, race, gender, blah, blah i.e. being opposed to discrimination and prejudice of all kinds, so lumping women together like that in a derogatory way seems inconsistent and hypocritical.
I actually think it's far more sexist of him to have told Susan that she shouldn't be out on the streets during Purging - why isn't she, as a trained agent, just as safe as Bodie and Doyle?!
True and I agree.
Actually, along these lines, what I always wonder is why Bodie's the one who's always accused of racism (including by Doyle) when Doyle says some extremely racist things about Chinese people in the ep with the stun gas... I know there were different understandings of what was acceptable back when the series was made, but people now who note Bodie's racism in Klansmen don't seem to think anything of Doyle's racism at all! (Maybe they're putting it down to goading the guy that they've picked up..?)
Excellent point, I hadn't thought about Doyle and the Chinese connection. I can't exactly remember what Doyle says about them, but if his opinions were based on his experience of them, then I think that's fair game...he's not pre-judging but post-judging, I suppose? Hmmmm, I think I've just made up a new word. But don't forget Bodie's performance in Klansman - I don't think Doyle equals that anywhere and I would think that must be where Bodie gets his rascist reputation from.
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timeasmymeasure
Re: Major Spoiler alert
Date: 2007-07-21 10:59 am (UTC)I do agree that there are lots of examples where he's shown to be quite idealistic and yes, Cowley actually says that of him, but I'm not sure that idealism or even caring for people and society itself e.g. not having enough doctors, is the sole property of socialists. Victorian philanthropists and so-called New Liberals at the turn of the century (and the great Liberal himself, Lloyd George) have an admirable record - in some ways unequalled - when it comes to social improvement. But I know what you mean and thanks for reminding me with some very good examples! And yes, as you say, he does have certain left-leaning tendencies (apart from his other tendencies).
As for calling women "slags" being a sign of misogyny (cf calling men "bastards"?) I'm not sure that I necessarily equate socialism with a lack of sexism to be honest - different things, they are! I've known some very sexist socialists!
Yeah, I know what you mean.... and tight-fisted bastards a lot of them are too, but that's another story.....I suppose I'm thinking of the traditional socialist belief in equality, whether it be equality of income, opportunity, race, gender, blah, blah i.e. being opposed to discrimination and prejudice of all kinds, so lumping women together like that in a derogatory way seems inconsistent and hypocritical.
I actually think it's far more sexist of him to have told Susan that she shouldn't be out on the streets during Purging - why isn't she, as a trained agent, just as safe as Bodie and Doyle?!
True and I agree.
Actually, along these lines, what I always wonder is why Bodie's the one who's always accused of racism (including by Doyle) when Doyle says some extremely racist things about Chinese people in the ep with the stun gas... I know there were different understandings of what was acceptable back when the series was made, but people now who note Bodie's racism in Klansmen don't seem to think anything of Doyle's racism at all! (Maybe they're putting it down to goading the guy that they've picked up..?)
Excellent point, I hadn't thought about Doyle and the Chinese connection.
I can't exactly remember what Doyle says about them, but if his opinions were based on his experience of them, then I think that's fair game...he's not pre-judging but post-judging, I suppose? Hmmmm, I think I've just made up a new word. But don't forget Bodie's performance in Klansman - I don't think Doyle equals that anywhere and I would think that must be where Bodie gets his rascist reputation from.
Thanks for that!