Reading Room XII - Crossovers - Contretemps by Josey

[murphybabe]

Title: Contretemps
Author: Josey
Pairing: B/D
Link to story:  Contretemps

This is a crossover between Pros and Judge John Deed.  I like both, although I can’t connect John Deed with Ray Doyle, so I found it interesting that I enjoyed this story, as I have been struggling with fusions and crossovers.

The story starts in 1981, with Bodie undercover at a rather exclusive club, where he meets a fascinating man.  Bodie has been hiding his love for his partner, and when he sees John Deed, who looks exactly like Doyle, he takes the opportunity to use Deed as a substitute.  The affair doesn’t last long, but is very enjoyable while it does.

Flash forward to 2005, when Bodie is discovered rummaging through a box of Doyle’s belongings.  We learn that Bodie and Doyle have been partners in all senses for many years now, and that there is something the matter with Doyle.  Has he died?  Bodie is looking for information about next-of-kin and finds letters to Doyle’s parents from an adoption agency referring to a place having been found for ‘your son, Joseph.’

Various time shifts chart the progress of the relationship between Bodie and Deed, and the development of a relationship between Bodie and Doyle.  It turns out that Doyle has had a heart attack but is recovering well, and Bodie comes up with the idea of throwing a 60th birthday party for him and inviting Deed as a surprise guest.  He plans this out and then on the night of the party is suddenly shaken by the thought of it all going wrong and stressing Ray’s heart again, prompting a slight change in his plans.  “Now his imagination could conjure a happier end for the scenario. It put Ray firmly in a chair, with Bodie beside him just in case. Only then could Deed approach, squat down next to the chair, and place a hand on Ray’s knee. In Bodie’s mind, Ray’s hand came to rest on top of John’s, gripping it hard. For the longest moment neither man would move or speak, then Ray reached out and touched Deed’s face. “John?”

The next second they’d be in each other’s arms, tears streaming down their cheeks, hands still tightly held. Around them, the crowd would let out a sigh of relief and conversation would start up again. People would come and shake Bodie’s hand and congratulate him on finding and reuniting the long lost brothers and ply him with drinks, and everything would be perfect.”

Unfortunately for Bodie, John Deed never turns up, and when he goes to investigate it seems that John and his daughter Charlie were in a car accident on their way to the party.  Bodie is determined to bring the long-lost brothers together.  Doyle is distracted and unhappy.  He is now worried that Bodie is having an affair, so when Bodie arranges to meet John at the club where they originally met, Doyle follows and jumps to the wrong conclusion.  Doyle hits Bodie and starts a fight with John.  This bit is all very Regency, with a broken foil and one brother threatening the other.  Happily, Bodie breaks in on them and all turns out well in the end.  Doyle and John come to agreement, and Bodies gets his Ray back again – happy ever after.

So much for the summary:  now for some analysis.  I enjoyed this story.  I found it quite plausible and liked the way it was written.  All three of the main characters ring true to life for me, especially Deed’s more selfish, hedonistic character and Doyle’s grittier, more cynical manner.  I loved this Bodie.  He is funny, worried, clumsy, loving, romantic and sweet.  (Doyle is still bad-tempered and prickly.)  The relationship between them is deliberately downplayed,   “To anyone else, Ray’s comments might have sounded cruel. To Bodie they said everything about how Ray felt. Words like love and forever were rarely mentioned by either of them, but this affectionate teasing filled the gap.”  This reflects the series well, to me – I can’t really see them being all lovey-dovey and sweet to each other.  I liked the way that Bodie was portrayed from the outside as the way we see him in the eps, but his unvoiced  thought processes were what made him funny, worried etc. for me.

I thought that the description of Doyle’s jealousy of his brother was very perceptive:  “This wasn’t about the money. It was about opportunity. Ray was bright; bright enough to have gone to university, to read law, to have become what John was today. But he hadn’t had that chance. Not for him Oxford’s hallowed halls and the leisure to explore his own intellect. Instead it had been mean East End Streets, police corruption, and day to day dance with death in CI5. Ray saw in his brother all he could have been, all he thought he should have been, and he hated himself for failing.” 

The time shifts bothered me - I kept having to stop and work out which year I was in, and therefore who knew what.  If it had been jumping between two years, I would have managed better, but my brain was foggy and I had to think about it, which for me detracted slightly from the story.

All in all, this is a story I will return to.  I love stories about older lads, and this one fits into the way I see Bodie and Doyle and their relationship as it matures.  This one sentence summed it up for me, “They might be older and greyer and thicker around the middle, but in the important ways, things hadn’t changed at all.”  Now that’s how I like to think of them!

Questions: 

1.  Did the story work for you, on any or all levels?  I said it was plausible – it’s actually straight out of romantic fiction, but what did you think of the premise of twins separated at birth etc.?
2.  If you know Judge John Deed, was the character recognisable to you?
3.  If you don’t know JJD, has this inspired you to take a look?
4.  How did you feel about the manipulation of Doyle’s possible death?
5. Did you like this Bodie?  How did you perceive the internal/external descriptions?
6. What about the ending?  Satisfying or saccharine?

Over to you!

Comments

[merentha13.livejournal.com]

Good review! I did like this story. The idea of an unknown twin for Doyle worked for me. I don't know the JJD character. (And shallow as I am, I don't think I could sit through a show with MS in that dreadful wig.... *g*) Ray's hinted at death didn't bother me. It was a good device to keep the reader interested, wondering 'what did happen to Ray?'
Bodie is where I kind of had some issues. I liked the internal/external bit but I think the internal Bodie was still a bit too "soft" for me. And at times, I found Ray a bit too prickly. I'm not sure he would have held in his suspicions of Bodie's "affair". I think he'd have had the blow-up a bit earlier. But in this story, the characters worked and I did enjoy them. The ending... a bit too pat, maybe. I would have liked to explore how each of the brothers felt about finally meeting. But that probably could have filled another whole story!

I enjoyed your review! Sorry this is quick. I should know better than to even open Reading Room before I go to work! I'll try to check back later for more. Thanks for this!

[milomaus.livejournal.com]

Such a very enjoyable choice, this story!!!
And a lovely review!
I very much enjoyd the characters, though I don´t know anything about JJD, but I really liked the difference between the two Doyles. And the reasons for Ray´s jealousy. There were quite a few moments I lol´d while reading, which is always the best!

I´m not gonna watch JDD, imo it got nothing to do with The Lads, so I´d rather watch the Pros eps again.

Josey really made me believe this to be a death fic, but then I remembered more and more from the first time I read it, but just so much that I was quite sure that he must be still alive. But the frantic Bodie really gave the impression at first.

Usually I´m hopeless with time-shifts, but funnily somehow in this story it worked well for me.
And the end? LOVE! Pure love!

[moth2fic.livejournal.com]

Sadly, I was disappointed in the story. I don’t like stories that depend on flashbacks or accounts of different times for their entire structure. I find them unsettling and hard to read/concentrate on. Each time the scene/date changes I’m distanced and have to work at getting into the story all over again. This is obviously just a personal quirk, but it did make me perhaps more likely to notice other things I disliked. So here goes:

Did the story work for you, on any or all levels?

I thought the whole idea of the twin given up for adoption highly unlikely in UK at that time but was willing to go along with it for the sake of the story. Then there were the conicidences - that Bodie should have had the affair with John whilst undercover and yearning for Ray, that John and Charlie should have had their accident just then. Again, I was willing to suspend disbelief but only for the sake of a good story, which I didn’t feel, in the end, I got.

If you know Judge John Deed, was the character recognisable to you?

I’ve watched a few episodes - don’t like it much for various reasons - but didn’t really recognise the character here. The John Deed of this story struck me as more how the author imagined Doyle might have been if he’d been the one adopted, and not the Judge of the John Deed series.

How did you feel about the manipulation of Doyle’s possible death?

I assumed he had died and was then surprised and pleased that he hadn’t, but I don’t like stories that manipulate me that way, and I found Bodie’s rummaging through Doyle’s papers unlikely if he hadn’t died. They’d been together long enough and would surely have some instructions in place in the event of illness/injury. That’s nothing to do with romance or relationships - it’s just normal practicality and I don’t think they’d have lacked that, especially given their CI5 experiences.

Did you like this Bodie? How did you perceive the internal/external descriptions?

I don’t think Bodie would be as clumsy and unthinking in his planning. He knew Doyle had had a heart attack. He would know that shocks would not be a good idea, even pleasant ones. And even if he was that stupid, once he’d realised I think he’d have given up on the surprise element. I thought the author made him out to be less intelligent and more selfish than he is in canon.

What about the ending? Satisfying or saccharine?

I don’t think we got sufficient information about how Doyle was feeling now that he had his brother in his life whether he liked it or not. There was just Bodie’s relief at having prevented the fight and having saved his relationship. So I found it unsatisfying but not in the least saccharine.

The writing was good, if you can cope with the time shifts, but there was something lacking. I found myself skimming and never got lost in the story. I don’t think it was just the time element; I didn’t feel that the characters came adequately to life - any of them. They weren’t quite cardboard and they did, in the case of Bodie and Doyle, have some canon characteristics, but the author never made me care what happened to them. Maybe it was the time thing and I just never got quite into it all?

Sorry! But thanks for the rec and review anyway - you clearly liked the story and the structure and you took us through it in an engaging manner. I expect you’ll find other readers who liked it, too! You already have, in fact. But I thought I’d introduce the note of ‘disappointed reader’! *g*

[sc-fossil.livejournal.com]

1. It's a trope but I liked the story.

2 and 3. Yes, I've seen all of JJD, more than once. I like the Judge even if he is a bastard.

4. Ah, what manipulation? It was barely a few paragraphs. But I like a good obfuscation so it's not manipulation to me not to reveal every story detail in the first page. In fact, I'd rather have thing slowly revealed.

5. Bodie was fine, I didn't mind the musings.

6. It was an okay ending. I'm glad Josey didn't have John and Ray argue for days, weeks or months. I like that Ray admitted he was wrong and that he accepted Bodie's truthful explanations.

I like the story. I like JJD overall, although I do believe John has a mental and/or physical addiction to sex. He does need counselling and he does need to not sleep with every woman who talks past him. Of course, they're always willing too...

Thanks!

[moonlightmead.livejournal.com]

Hello!

What a clear review! I enjoyed the jumping around in time, but the way you have structured it makes me realise that yes, the reader does have to work to follow it.

Did the story work? Well, aspects did, yes, certainly. Bodie and Doyle sounded like Bodie and Doyle - both at the time of the series and how they might sound 30 years on. That's a major point in its favour for me. I have read some of Josey's other stories, and she gets the flavour of 70s/80s Britain and of the lads, so I expected that anyway. Twins separated at birth: yes, I could go with that. Adoption laws were very different then, and it was possible to do 'private adoptions', which I think are now not possible. One being adopted and the other not: well, until moth2fic commented, I was quite happy with that. I think perhaps having both of them given up for adoption might have been more plausible than only one, but for te sake of the story, yes, I didn't mind.

And also, I took any implausibility in my stride, because I haven't seen Judge John Deed, but the impression I have gained of it - from crossovers generally, from the weekly Pros newsletter links to stories about it and from the Wikipedia article - is that it is utterly implausible: everyone is related by blood or screwing or prior (perhaps current?) relationships, Deed's legal pronouncements would constitute 90% of the year's appeals to the Law Lords, and generally it sounds quite melodramatic. So melodramatic plot devices are fine by me. I totally hadn't thought about any Regency connection, though - good catch.

Doyle's death - oh, yes, I fell for this completely. As soon as there was a special box and Bodie going through it, I thought Doyle was dead - perhaps especially because I knew it was a crossover, and one with a different character played by Martin Shaw. So, perhaps... and I have no problem with being fooled like that. There's quite a lot of Pros fic where the reader is led to believe one is dead and it turns out not to be the case, and some of it is heart-melting. And there's enough where the reader is told it and it turns out to be true for the trepidation to be there in a new story.

I did like the portrayal of this Bodie. I liked the banter. I liked his fantasy (right at the start) about "and then Doyle would lift his mask and.." and how it was interrupted. I thought that was handled really well. I did find the whole "I know! I'll bring them face to face at a public event and nothing can possibly go wrong--oh wait, I should rethink this" section rather odd. I didn't think that was Bodie-ish at all.

I thought the ending was over quickly. It was all wrapped up so fast - the petrol receipts, the invitation for an Indian, and, particularly, Bodie's realisation of what exactly Doyle's problem was. I thought that was brilliant, the jealousy of "that could have been me standing where he is". I really liked that. And yet it is largely revealed, then dropped, although it is the driver of the whole thing.

But there was a lot that I had to take on trust. I presume that Mrs Cooper and Deed addressing her as Coop is from Judge John Deed. I presume that there is a daughter who is that blunt ("Were you and dad lovers?"). I presume that Deed is the sort of character who will get off on being called 'milord' (not 'm'lud'?) in sex (which, personally, I find... ew). I presume Jo the barrister is both Charlie's pupil master and an old flame of Deed's. I presume... well, there was quite a lot I had to presume when it came to the Deed side of things! I wonder whether my reaction would be different if I knew the programme, whether I liked it or not.

Thanks for the review! If I see the programme coming up on the television, I may have to watch an episode now. Just to see :)

[heliophile-oxon.livejournal.com]

Just a drive-by I'm afraid, but I did want to say thank-you for the review - I enjoyed the story on the whole, and was willing to do a bit of suspension of belief wrt the coincidences. I rather liked several things about it, such as Bodie's vulnerability - but perhaps the feature I liked best was the fact that way back when he thinks he can never have Ray's love Bodie uses Deed as a substitute for Doyle, and Doyle later gets this exactly the wrong way round and secretly fears that it is he who is only a substitute for Deed. I thought that particular crossed wire worked rather nicely, and it also enhances the issue of his jealously of Deed's greater opportunity, as you point out.

[gilda-elise.livejournal.com]

I can't really say that I was taken with this story, and not just because I've seen little JJD. It was more that, like moth2fic, I was never drawn in by the characters or their situation—made worse by the whole "I can't have you so I'll have your twin" premise. It's always struck me as mildly creepy. *g*

And, really, to do justice to how involved the plot was, I think the story should have been much longer, so that much that was mentioned but mostly glossed over, like Ray knowing about his brother all those years but never attempting to contact him, could be expanded on.

[margaret-r.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the excellent review:)

Did the story work for you, on any or all levels? I said it was plausible – it’s actually straight out of romantic fiction, but what did you think of the premise of twins separated at birth etc.?

On some levels it did work. There were some nice scenes and good interplay between Bodie and Doyle but overall I found the structure confusing and it made some of the indications on who knew what about the brothers, the adoption and the early affair between Bodie and Deed rather obscure. The separation at birth was believable in that it has happened in real life but it's a trope in fiction!

If you know Judge John Deed, was the character recognisable to you?

More or less! I don’t really like the series or the character very much but he was recognisable. I didn’t really like him any better in the fic either though;)

How did you feel about the manipulation of Doyle’s possible death?

As the only reason Bodie could possibly have for looking in Doyle’s very private locked box would be if Doyle was dead I had to assume he was dead! It was nice to find out he wasn’t but I did think the manipulation a bit clumsy.

Did you like this Bodie? How did you perceive the internal/external descriptions?

Some of Bodie’s scenes were good, he was at times very romantic and quite sweet. Doyle seemed a bit too cynical and the fact he carried such bitter restment and misunderstanding around with him for twenty years was very sad and probably out of character. The banter was good but the birthday party scene was totally over the top. Bodie would never be so stupid as to try to manipulate his partner in that way. That Deed would actually go along with it was even more unrealistic.

What about the ending? Satisfying or saccharine?

Incomplete mainly! And again, a little unbelievable. There was too much history between the brothers and Bodie for their reactions to not be explored a little more so the reader is left with a feeling of dissatisfaction.

There were some genuinely good moments in the fic and I did enjoy reading it once I stopped letting the year jumping bother me, but there were too many thing there that didn’t work, didn’t quite make sense, which spoilt the overall affect for me.

[murphybabe]

I'm glad you liked the story. I found your comments about their characters interesting - also interesting to see what other comments refer to below. Yeah, I know what you mean - although I said I liked this Bodie, the internal Bodie certainly isn't the hard man we sometimes see in the eps! Thanks for commenting!

[murphybabe]

Glad you enjoyed it! I've just noticed that I tend to review 'nice', fluffy stories - lol! Interesting that the timeshifts worked for you in this story - what was it that made them work here for you, do you think?

Your comment about JJD having nothing to do with the lads - that's how I see it, although I enjoy JJD, but as I said in the review, he has nothing to do with Doyle. I wonder if that's a reflection of MS as a good actor, or just my shallow nature *vbg*

Thanks for commenting!

[murphybabe]

Oooh, brilliant that you weren't that keen! It's always more interesting when there are different points of view. Like I commented to Milomaus, above, this is the second 'fluffy' fic I have reviewed (note to self - find something grittier next time) and as I was writing the review I was loving the story all over again, and therefore closing my eyes to some of the issues you have raised.

I agree about the coincidences of Bodie happening on JJD while he was undercover and yearning for Ray, but I found the idea of one twin being offered for adoption quite true to life, actually. My mum, born in 1935, talks of a neighbouring couple who couldn't afford to raise any more kids after number 5 so 6 and 7 were farmed out elsewhere.

It was written quite strongly from Bodie's point of view, and I think this colours our perception of him and Doyle. I like your thought that this JJD was as Josey thought Doyle might have been if he had been adopted. The prickly Doyle was one I recognised, however.

Thank you for commenting - you made me think some more, which is always good!

[murphybabe]

hee - "I like the Judge even if he is a bastard." Me too!

Interesting that the ending hasn't really worked for any of us so far. Although I liked it, it was rather hurried and tidied up quite neatly. Thanks for commenting!

[murphybabe]

Halloo! Yes, I was happy with the adopt-one-twin scenario too!

Doyle's death suckered me in as well, although having considered Moth2fic's comments, perhaps I should have been a little more critical of this. I think it's because I like the story so much , so am willing to go with it. This is probably why I skipped past Bodie's plan to get the twins reunited at Doyle's birthday party - as you and others have pointed out, this wasn't terribly clever/plausible. And yeah, the ending - as other commenters have said, it's very brief and unfinished.

Yeah, Coop and Charlie and Jo and Mimi are all from JJD. I found it hard to judge (heh!) whether you would need to know anything about the JJD series, and this is something that interests me about crossover and fusion fic. With the last two fusion reviews I had no clue about the 'other side' so probably I missed a lot of the subtext. Suffice it to say that I recognised the characteristics of all the above from the JJD series. JJD is interesting, to me, because the Judge himself irritates the hell out of me, and yet I like the series enough to have bought all the boxed sets of DVDs and will re-watch quite happily. I find this a bit odd for a character I don't much like.

Thanks for commenting!

[murphybabe]

Hope you're enjoying the Golden Capri, with your drive-by!

I hadn't spotted that particular crossed wire, so thanks for pointing that out. That's a subtlety I hadn't spotted (darn it - wish I had!) and I think that's very neat. Good catch!

[murphybabe]

Several people have commented that it could have been longer, which would have enabled us to see more of the complexities and their resolutions. I understand the 'creepy' observation *g* Can I ask: you say that you were never drawn in by the characters - was this Bodie and Doyle as well? Did you see them portrayed differently from the episodes?

Thanks for commenting!

[moth2fic.livejournal.com]

The Reading Room would be very boring if we all just read the review and then said we agreed... LOL

I'd heard of children being 'farmed out' privately, particularly to other relatives, but not one of twins and not in an agreement that left them not knowing about each other.I thought the whole idea - one of twins, and no idea how big the family was, etc. was unlikely and especially if they were a Catholic family using a Catholic adoption route because the church would encourage them to have a big family and would probably frown on the adoption angle here.

I recognised Doyle in his behaviour during the fic, though I found his long bitterness hard to swallow, like somebody else who commented. And if he was so bitter I'd have thought he would have destroyed the documents. I didn't really recognise Bodie - my Bodie is brighter and braver and more sensible than this one! JJD seemed somehow missing. I quite like the character in the show - it's other things I dislike, to do with the way the legal system is portrayed and the way the characters do huge info-dumps to each other to keep the viewer informed. But as somebody has pointed out (you?) he's a bit of a bastard and this doesn't come across in this fic; he's just Bodie's long-ago Ray-substitute and Charlie's father, and, of course, Ray's twin - not a character in his own right.

In other words, I'm enjoying the discussion more than the fic and that's OK because that's why I read it!

[murphybabe]

I thought I might be the only one confused by the structure, but apparently not *g* I wonder, however, if it had been more straightforward if some of the ambiguity/suspense which some of us enjoyed would have been lost. I understand what you are saying about the unbelievable/unrealistic aspects. And again, another comment about the ending not being quite all it could have been.

Thanks for your comments!

[moonlightmead.livejournal.com]

Just an aside about the title, partly provoked by the comments about the structure. 'Contretemps'. So, literally, against time? The word's got several meanings. A general disagreement; and a fencing term are the two I think of (apparently it's also a dance step). My dictionary describes the fencing sort of contretemps as 'a feint made with the intention of inducing a counter-thrust'. But I quite like the literal 'against time'.

So, um. Is it also a nod to the structure, and the way the narrative advances, and then goes back in time, and then that provokes further advance in time? Or am I just seeing intention where there is just a happy coincidence?

I really should not open the weekend wine and then post, I know. (Just imagine what I shall be like when I have actually drunk some of it.)

[murphybabe]

Cor - too clever for me! Bring on that wine - and keep posting! I had assumed it was a reference to the fencing term, but I like your theory of the advance/retreat thing. Keep it up, and have a glass for me!

[milomaus.livejournal.com]

I tend to review 'nice', fluffy stories
Me too!!
I think it was the easy way they talked together, or better acted together. I really like Bodie as the sweet, kind neighbour guy from next door, sometimes. Though I do enjoy him a bit more independent? - nah - well, not so much relying on Doyle.
But sometimes that´s just so nice, and this story just pushes loads of my buttons.

And you enjoying JJD is for sure your shallow nature! *BG*

My pleasure!

[merentha13.livejournal.com]

I meant to comment on the title too - thanks for the reminder! I wasn't quite sure what it meant - this is what I found:

An unforeseen event that disrupts the normal course of things; an inopportune occurrence., which I think fits the story quite well.

So not only did I get an enjoyable read - but I learned something too! And who says all my time spent on the internet is wasted! *g*

[gilda-elise.livejournal.com]

Even Bodie and Doyle didn't grab me. Maybe because they seemed, I don't know, not flat, maybe just somewhat sweeter than I tend to see them. Too soft.

[anna060957.livejournal.com]

Thank you for reviewing this story – one I had not heard of and would probably not have read without either “The Reading Room” or your review!

I adore Judge John Deed (the wig is really not a major part of the programme!!) and have the whole series on DVD. This story is a brilliant crossover with such a neat join, it hardly shows. To make Doyle and Deed a twin was masterful (if not original) and the connection totally worked for me. I loved Bodie in the main role and his thought processes were mainly spot-on and generally in character. The to-ing and fro-ing between past and present did not spoil my enjoyment, but for me, helped to build the tension. Josey’s word craft is a joy to read where she has explored both relationships (Bodie/Deed and Bodie/Doyle) and the inner workings of Bodie’s thought processes.

Although initially I would have said the premise that twins could be separated at birth would be totally plausible. As I read it, Doyle’s parents “had to get married”, ie, she was pregnant. Having given birth to twins it is quite possible that giving one up for adoption was suggested and assuming their “working class” background, this would have been an acceptable solution to a life of constant financial constraint. However, I have no personal knowledge and have not carried out any research on when adopted children were able to contact their biological parent(s). I still think this is a plausible scenario.

The end was good insofar as it was a happy one – which I must have! However, I think that it appeared “cut off” as if the author had run out of time. But perhaps she was, even then, thinking of a sequel!

In my humble opinion this fic has a good storyline, good characterisation for all three main characters, the addition of minor characters from both series gave good substance and heart to the story this is one I’ll be keeping readily available.

[anna060957.livejournal.com]

I think that JJD not being Doyle illustrates Martin Shaw's acting ability ... although I can see Doyle in a number JJD's characteristics and mannerisms .... The JJD series is nothing to do with The Professionals, but it's still a good programme and I don't beleive you have a shallow nature!

[firlefanzine.livejournal.com]

I love crossovers! Maybe because I like good minor characters. And this is a stylistic element I miss a bit in Pros stories.

And I really enjoyed this story!
For example the mood and the humour in it:
"Being in his late fifties didn’t, apparently, stop legal types regarding him as distinctly dubious. Maybe his eyes really were too close together."

Then there is that good scene with Charlie, the daughter of JJD. And then this moment:
“Bodie, why didn’t you tell me you were queer?”
Bodie’s mental car hit a ditch and rolled.... Left with no other choice, he ran. ...Sooner or later they’d have to stop him and then Bodie would get what he wanted. Some faces to break his fists on. Something to fight. Something to throw himself against until the pain in his heart stopped and he could walk back into Doyle’s life without killing him. Because not returning wasn’t a consideration, would never be a consideration. However blind, however maddening or even fucking pitying Ray was, he was still Ray, and Bodie could no more walk away from him than he could stop loving him."
I love this! And I love their 'first time' conversation! Doyle is so determined to say what he wants to say, to analyse, that he doesn't notices that the doors are already wide open. And Bodie can't believe it all.

- Did the story work for you, on any or all levels? I said it was plausible – it’s actually straight out of romantic fiction, but what did you think of the premise of twins separated at birth etc.?
The author created that scenario for her story and I can happily live with it! Strange things happen in RL - so who am I to argue? ;-)

- If you don’t know JJD, has this inspired you to take a look?
I don't know JJD. And I don't think that I'm gonna watch it now. George Gently is my personification of the older MS and I don't want to spoil that. ;-)

- How did you feel about the manipulation of Doyle’s possible death?
It would be a badly executed manipulation, and I couldn't believe it! But of course I checked the end! ;-)

- What about the ending? Satisfying or saccharine?
I'm not happy with the ending. Because it means that Ray had been jealous all these years. He had been afraid to lose Bodie, thinking that he was just his second choice. And thinking that the Judge had the better chances in life and had been more successful.
That's something I can't connect with the Doyle I know. I think Doyle is very sure of himself!


Thank you very much for this story! :-)

[murphybabe]

Yes, I suppose, thinking about it, I can see some of the Doyle characteristics or mannerisms in George Gently as well, and as wossname in Apparitions. But shallow... well, I might have to put my hand up to that one!

[murphybabe]

Ah, research. This is an important factor and is well worth doing. Reading Pros is therefore an essential part of our day. Keep it up! *vbg*

[murphybabe]

Oh, I'm glad this brought you a story you enjoyed. I hadn't thought of the timeshifts as heightening the tension, but I can see it that way. And, like you, several people have pointed out that the end is quite abrupt, and it would have been good if it had been resolved more or perhaps a sequel was necessary.

Thanks for commenting, and I'm glad you enjoyed it!

[murphybabe]

Yes, I didn't really mention the humour much, but you have quoted a line that had me laughing out loud, with the reference to eyes too close together! And I think that the way Bodie ran after the 'queer' question was very true to life (or Bodie's life as I see it) - he has run from other situations.

But the ending - I can't agree with you there. I think he has been hiding this very deeply for many years, always thinking that JJD is better than he is. I get a sense of Doyle's background as working class, struggling, always fighting for what he thinks is right - so he is determined to hang onto Bodie but doesn't quite believe he is good enough that Bodie will stay with him. However, more people above agree with you, so perhaps I'm wrong! It doesn't matter - I'm glad you enjoyed this story, and thanks for commenting!

[firlefanzine.livejournal.com]

Pssssttt.... don't we mean the same thing about Doyle? I think I do... but I'm not sure anymore... ;-)

[murphybabe]

It was very late last night when I replied :) Let me have another look at what we both said.

I think we agree that poor Doyle had been holding in all this resentment of his successful twin for all these years. And that he was scared that he was second best for Bodie. Okay so far? *g*

I think where we differ is that you see Doyle as very sure of himself and therefore this ending is out of character, whereas I see him as being confident on the outside but having a lot of well-hidden self-doubt. To me, this ending and his behaviour around being grumpy and worried that he is only second-best is very much in character.

Does that make sense? Should I go and have another coffee, to wake my brain up?

Sorry if I wasn't listening very well - but it's great to have this sort of discussion :)