The Reading Room -- NOVEMBER by Sebastian

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

http://www.thecircuitarchive.com/tca/archive/18/november.html

Or

http://www.oblique-publications.net/archives/2note/4_2Qnovemberredone.pdf

Original Publication: ...As Two £3 Notes, Oblique Publications, 1991


I have a special fondness for Discovered in a Graveyard stories. Partly because I think the episode is one of the best and most complex (even if Doyle does look like an ailing mime); partly because I see the canon event of Doyle's "death" as such a powerful catalyst for change -- both personal and professional -- in the lads' relationship; partly because there is a wealth of dramatic and romantic dynamics in these stories. Plus it's a perfect opportunity for some serious hurt/comfort. By now I consider myself a sort of connoisseur of DiaG fics and I never pass up the opportunity to read one. The very first one I ever read was Sebastian's beautiful but unsettling November, and you know what they say about never forgetting your first time.

 

 

 

The day was dreary, a dark grey lowering, but the room assigned to them in the small hotel was unexpectedly pleasant. Miss Parrish the proprietor opened the door and a flood of rosy light permeated the interior as she switched on a lamp here and there.

 

"I think you'll be all right here, gentlemen. Breakfast is from eight till ten, or you can leave the card out for our Continental. If there's anything you want in the meantime, just ring down for it to Reception."

 

Our story opens with Doyle and Bodie on what appears to be a routine and rather boring obs -- the weekend surveillance of an embassy. We quickly learn that Doyle is newly back on the job following being shot by Mayli and that there's some question both in his mind and in Bodie's as to whether he really will make it all the way back. Beneath the ribbing and roughhousing, they're both a little frightened and a little angry -- with themselves and each other. They're struggling to get back to normal, but normal has changed forever.

 

For the first time, Doyle's eyes opened to what Bodie had been through: self-pity and shock had blinded him to all but his own struggle to regain normality. Surprise, then pity overtook him; and a new resolve not to turn Bodie's protective instincts away for reminding him that once he had failed, and so, the talisman of invincibility destroyed, might fail again.

 

Why didn't you set the locks. Why, Ray?

 

We learn also that even before the shooting the dynamics of their relationship had begun to alter, particularly one drunken night when they got a little carried away together and apparently had sex -- which Doyle has (possibly deliberately) blanked out.

 

I love how Sebastian skillfully feeds us bits of important information piece meal, avoiding the perils of the big info dump at the start of the story. She takes her time and lets the tension build while we gradually get the whole picture: Bodie is in love with Doyle and Doyle is on the run from acknowledging both what Bodie feels and what he feels himself. Doyle desperately wants everything to go back to the way it was, and Bodie already knows it can never be the same.

 

Just some general observations of things I think Sebastian does well: dialog -- I think she does a great job with their voices. Not merely capturing the way they sound, but the kinds of things they would say, the jokes, the attitude, the insights. Sex -- she writes sex with an imaginative exuberance and the sex is always a vital part of the story, not just thrown in because the lads look so pretty fucking. (Or so fucking pretty.) Character -- I don't always agree with her reading of their characters (I have trouble with the Siren series, for example) but they're always interesting and complex characters.

 

Other thoughts on the writing…I like her floating POV. It's not something I usually enjoy outside of fan fiction, but I think it emulates the camera's eye, and Sebastian does it mostly effectively. I like that this is a genuine case story. I like that although Sebastian writes her Bodie and Doyle tough -- possibly a little unbalanced -- she captures the tolerant humor and tenderness between them.

 

Bodie looked over at Sally and Doyle, tangled up together, both fast asleep. Pity to wake him, but they'd have to be on their way soon. Bodie's brows narrowed into a frown as he surveyed Doyle; even asleep, little lines of stress showed around his eyes. Silver glints in his hair, and on his chest the ugly brand of a wound most mortal.

 

Doyle was not yet thirty-five years old.

 

The familiar tight sensation hit Bodie, an expression of fierce brooding twisting his face:

 

Doyle had nearly died.

 

It couldn't be right. Not that a young man, full of life and vibrance, moods and feeling should be wiped out in a flash, just like that--all he had to offer to the world gone, flung to the winds and lost. For no good reason.

 

For no good reason.

 

And if he had died, Bodie asked himself reasonably, eyes dwelling on the smooth honey of his skin, returning as if drawn to that black nightmarish pucker over his heart: if he had died... What would that have done to you?

 

He closed his eyes, trying to blot out the rising panic: to quell it, he set about to be practical. To let his mind catalogue the options open to him, to both of them: anything to screen the fearful view of the future which had so nearly become the past. I will do it, he thought, I have to do it; I'll ask him to get out with me, we've done our bit for the nation, Cowley can find some other young hopefuls to do or die.

 

He touched Doyle's shoulder, found the skin moist, and cool; pulled up the duvet over him. Then, Bodie got up, picked up his clothes from the floor and padded to the bathroom to wash.

 

 

Anyway, all this is seething beneath the surface. Meanwhile Doyle and Bodie go about their business like the professionals they are. But that old soldier's instinct is tapping Bodie's shoulder. He's got an increasingly bad feeling about this job -- and, in particular, about Doyle surviving it.

 

And he is right to be worried.

Comments

[krisserci5.livejournal.com]

I get that you like this piece. . . .I try, but I'm just an oddity.

So my first impression upon finishing. . .crappy story. What was the actual point? Doyle was fine as a snarky SOB but he became almost whiney and ridiculous with his doubting everything. Neither seemed capable of speaking a sentence of truth and then the op that should have cemented their desire to really get to the Old Bones and instead, they're cold baby boys. This is no where close to my Bodie and Doyle.

The air was never cleared, their intent remained frozen inside the immature minds of Bodie and Doyle. I would rather read a great characterization by a weak author than a crappy story by an author that most folk consider a master.

2nd reading wasn't much different.

[kindkit.livejournal.com]

I wasn't sure I'd comment, since I haven't really been participating in these discussions before now. But since the first commenter hated the story, I have to pipe up to say I liked it a lot. The early part isn't very successful, I think, but as the emotional situation gets more fraught and complicated (starting when they pick up the girls in the bar) it just gets better and better.

To me, the tension between them, the way that they're reluctant to acknowledge or act on what they feel and each half-angry at the other one for making him feel it, the way Bodie's haunted by death and Doyle feels emasculated by his near-death and unwilling to show any fear--that all feels right. These are not uncomplicated men, and there's a lot of darkness in them. There has to be, given the job they chose and the things it makes them do. The flaring tempers and sudden quarrels that are just as suddenly ended ring true to Bodie and Doyle's canonical relationship, too. They make the moments of affection, of communion, all the more powerful. I love this bit in particular:

"What are you trying to do, Doyle?" Bodie wanted to know, a spark of angry venom still there and feeding on itself, "Lead me on again? 'S probably quite funny, is it, from where you're standing?" Doyle made a gesture of exasperation, grimacing down at the ground. "I know, you want me to say, 'Let me toss you off, Ray, you'll feel ever so much better'," Bodie mimicked, flying out high on a line of anger, shocking Doyle and dragging his gaze up to Bodie again. "Poor duped fool, on his knees to you while you grant some obscene favour, and all in the name of therapy? Well, listen to this, mate," and Doyle saw Bodie's Adam's apple move rapidly, heard his voice change, "I cried for you. So help me God, it fucking tore me up when I saw you there, like to die. And you make out it's some sort of game. Well, I'll play, Doyle. We'll go back right now and play: you like it a bit wild, don't you, a bit way out, and yeah, I'll give you that. But don't expect me to walk away laughing when you hit me in the guts afterwards with one of your charming little lines: I hate feeling like this, Bodie," and he laughed savagely, a dangerous mockery shining in his eyes. "Plenty more where that came from, I reckon; you seem to have the bottom line in self-pity."

Doyle's head felt heavy with despair; Bodie would never, he knew, come closer to saying the forbidden than that. As for himself he seemed unable to say anything at all. Bodie looked at him intensely, and then looked closer.

"Oh Christ." And Bodie's arms went around him, pulled him close, cradled his head on one broad shoulder and rubbed his hair. "It's all right, Ray. Don't. It's all right."

The ending is painful, because they'd come so far and then they're fucked over by CI5 bullshit and it almost destroys them. But that, too, is true to the canon (and I respect Sebastian for not whitewashing the brutal and morally problematic nature of CI5's work). And then, amazingly, they manage to get past it--Bodie reaches out, and Doyle goes to him. Despite his premonitions, Bodie is the optimistic one throughout the story, the one who wants to live and feel instead of just shutting down. Naturally he'd be the one to find the courage, at this moment of despair, to try again. And I think it's the events of the earlier parts of the story that have helped Doyle trust him enough to follow.

Maybe it's a matter of personal taste, but in this fandom I enjoy stories like this more than schmoopy stories where Bodie and Doyle just have to realize their love for each other and everything's fine. It's those stories that feel out-of-character to me.

[sc-fossil.livejournal.com]

I'll be the third voice, and kind of a middle ground concerning Sebastian. I carefully tread with this author. She writes beautifully, but I rarely have any desire to reread her stories. They just don't stick with me, make me "feel" or think. BUT before the author's many, many well deserved fans stomp on me, let me say that this one (so far, I haven't read all her stories) is my favourite. And this was a first time for me to read this one. It's one I would reread.

I liked this a lot. I could see and hear the lads. I liked the angst that was kept in its place and not allowe to overrun the story. The way the story unfolded was excellent. I never felt the rush to hurry and read ahead (a sign I'm bored).

I had absolutely no problem with her POV, something that often sends me right out of a story and means I don't finish. This story had a good mix. It was tender in parts, hard in parts, but altogether, it worked so well for me that when I hit the end, I was happy.

I had a moment's hesitation when they were separated with only a few paragraphs left, and I was kicking myself for not reading the end first, telling myself that this was the usual MO: another of those angsty separation stories that other people love and I avoid like the plague. I was prepared to finish and be really irritated. It didn't happen! Thank God. There wasn't much to the reunion, but I admit, those simple few last words were like music. They said so much in just that simple exchange.

So I give this story a huge thumbs up. Thanks, J, for the rec. I wouldn't have tried it right now if not for your putting it out there.

[shooting2kill.livejournal.com]

Sebastian's beautiful but unsettling November.....

The day was dreary, a dark grey lowering

I love Sebastian’s work and I love this story but for some reason whenever I think of it I always associate it with depression rather than with the usual hefty dose of melancholy which is so often a part of her style (even with the more humourous stories where it's often a bitter-sweet kind of humour). So I’ve been trying to work out *why* I remember this story in the way that I do and more so than her other stories. Maybe it’s the time of year (and that ominous choice of title): that bleak month when we’re all waiting to get Christmas over and done with; or the fact that much of the story takes place in a rundown hotel room and is slightly claustrophic (and yet they seem to find it cosy and can shut out the world but I don't see it that way); maybe there's too much emphasis (inevitable in a confined space?) on their - at times - self-destructive relationship? Maybe the backbiting isn't balanced enough with sweeter sentiments so that at times they just don't seem to be on the same wavelength? And when we get one of Sebastian’s trademark Doyle snaps: "Don't fuss, for chrissake", I'm thinking, yes, I *have* occasionally seen Doyle behave like this in episodes so I suppose it is canon, but I don’t know..... my overall view of Doyle vis a vis Bodie isn’t quite like that. Maybe, it's as you say, that Bodie is more preoccupied with death than usual and that's not like our Bodie; maybe it’s the way Doyle rejects Bodie’s fussing - I don’t know. Maybe it’s the too realistic portrayal of much of poor London? I think the following paragraph is typical of what I mean with the author’s deliberate use of certain words which seem to colour the whole passage and set the reader up for something very sad: e.g. *grimy* backstreets, ’frail’ (worn and old) pretty dresses, *un*painted swings, *cracked* concrete, gardenless houses backing into more of the same. I feel all the adjectives chosen are deliberately negative and sad and it’s all a bit poor and dismal. (Maybe it’s just my nostalgia showing for 70s London? Dunno.) Other Sebastian stories can have their depressing elements but knowing that doesn’t seem to colour my overall view of them and I can return to them without a heavy heart, but this one I’m more wary of, more guarded with, and, as you've said, it's all a bit unsettling. But having said that, yes, providing I'm in a strong frame of mind, I'd much rather read a story about two complex, mature characters than something less challenging and unrealistic.

We learn also that even before the shooting the dynamics of their relationship had begun to alter, particularly one drunken night when they got a little carried away together and apparently had sex -- which Doyle has (possibly deliberately) blanked out.

I must admit that I don’t think I remembered that (or that I’d ever realised it) which is why I’ve always thought that the fact they returned to their hotel room after the savage Bodie kiss in the alley and don't even refer to it (even after the other two agents had left) was, I thought, a bit strange and unrealistic.

I love how Sebastian skillfully feeds us bits of important information piece meal, avoiding the perils of the big info dump

Yup, I agree and I think that's the common denominator of all my favourite writers.

And I love the way she just drops certain things into the story and brings the reader back to earth with a vengeance:

Doyle was not yet thirty-five years old.

Anyway, sorry to ramble and I'm sure I've missed some points but I just wanted to point out that although I can and do love this story, for some reason I've always regarded it in a different way to other Sebastian stories. Thanks for the rec and review!

[firlefanzine.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the rec!

To be true - I’m torn.

Yes it is ‘beautiful and unsettling’! I would even say beautiful and sombre.

Beautiful are such passages: “...he was dangerous, aggressive and chancy by nature, out on the edge just the way you had to be to be a leader in their underworld, not a victim. It was that face of Bodie Doyle was looking into now, the knife in his eyes.”

Hehe!! A leader in their underworld…. :-)

But the main mood is depressive and always rejecting, and uncertain, never sure of nothing, fewest of Doyle’s feelings.

They are never really happy.

And another bloody operation Susie. Cowley at his worst.

And then the end…
Do I get it right? After that disaster they don’t see each other for three weeks???
I mean, it’s ok if the author is determined to avoid another ‘waking up in hospital and looking in the other man’s eyes and forgetting all problems’ story (well, I love that…). But is it likely that Doyle isn’t even interested in Bodie’s well-being? That he doesn’t want to know whether Bodie can ever use his hand again??? I can’t believe that!

So… Really! I’m torn...

Well, the title is programme. The story is something to keep and feed any November depression...

[kiwisue.livejournal.com]

To me, the tension between them, the way that they're reluctant to acknowledge or act on what they feel and each half-angry at the other one for making him feel it, the way Bodie's haunted by death and Doyle feels emasculated by his near-death and unwilling to show any fear--that all feels right. These are not uncomplicated men, and there's a lot of darkness in them.

Yes. THIS.

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

Come on, Krisser, tell me how you really feel! *g*

Well, the actual point of the story, for me, is that Doyle and Bodie have reached the November of their CI5 lives and are either going to settle into a cold winter of discontent -- and ultimate death -- or are going to break the pattern, change their lives and their relationship and...live long enough to see Christmas.

I mean, I don't want to stretch the metaphor too far.

It's certainly one of Sebastian's bleaker stories, and it is a little uneven in places, but mostly I really like it.

Here's what she said about it at Zeropanic:

Autumn, winter, Christmas... magical seasons for lovers. The bleak and bitter chillness of their lives: the warmth inside - locked in and safe with siege provisions against the encroaching dark This whole story is a metaphor! Or maybe I'm a pretentious twit and it was just November when I wrote it. I have to say i was shocked by the bleakness of this post-Graveyard story when I read it after a long gap; but also pleased with the way it captures a little CI5 reality along the way, as well as the bound-till-death silver cord that ties our heroes together, no matter what, or who, or when, or where. Wherever they go... they go together....

And as bleak as I do find this story, I find the ending unequivocally reassuring. Wherever they go, they go together. They're clearly done in CI5. Ray's had a heart attack or something during the shoot out and Bodie's hand is probably crippled. And yet it seems a positive (happy might be too strong) ending.

Although I confess that last line bugs me and always has. I wanted something a little more there...

And I disagree -- I do think the air is cleared. Doyle has agreed to what Bodie wants in the hotel right before their quarry appears. He's had that moment of epiphany. But then...life and the job get in the way.

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

I wasn't sure I'd comment, since I haven't really been participating in these discussions before now.

Thank you for offering your insights then. It's great hearing new voices (or any voices!) in these discussions, and I think the best conversations about these stories are the ones with a variety of opinions.

But since the first commenter hated the story, I have to pipe up to say I liked it a lot. The early part isn't very successful, I think,

I kind of like the weird contrast of the pink coccoon room and the bleak outside and dangerous world.

but as the emotional situation gets more fraught and complicated (starting when they pick up the girls in the bar) it just gets better and better.

Yes, we begin to see how really twisted and tangled things have become between them.

To me, the tension between them, the way that they're reluctant to acknowledge or act on what they feel and each half-angry at the other one for making him feel it, the way Bodie's haunted by death and Doyle feels emasculated by his near-death and unwilling to show any fear--that all feels right. These are not uncomplicated men, and there's a lot of darkness in them. There has to be, given the job they chose and the things it makes them do. The flaring tempers and sudden quarrels that are just as suddenly ended ring true to Bodie and Doyle's canonical relationship, too.

Yes, I think no one does this better than Sebastian, the contrast between the boys and the killers, the jokey tenderness and the utter ruthlessness, the fun adventure of CI5 and the betrayal and treachery of it. She captures all that very well in this story.

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

The ending is painful, because they'd come so far and then they're fucked over by CI5 bullshit and it almost destroys them.

Yes. Doyle's moment of epiphany comes just a few minutes too late.

But that, too, is true to the canon (and I respect Sebastian for not whitewashing the brutal and morally problematic nature of CI5's work). And then, amazingly, they manage to get past it--Bodie reaches out, and Doyle goes to him. Despite his premonitions, Bodie is the optimistic one throughout the story,

Yes, I love Bodie in this one. This is very similar to my own reading of Bodie: a pragmatist, a ruthless pragmatist but his achilles heel is Doyle. And the fact that Doyle seems slightly off-kilter here makes sense given that he's trying to come to terms with his recent ressurection.

Bodie and the way Bodie feels about him is partly what scares him and partly his talisman.

Doyle remembered something else, and smiled.

Is he remembering Bodie crying in the hospital, telling him he loved him? Or is he remembering the night of sex that he blocked out? I lean toward the former.

the one who wants to live and feel instead of just shutting down. Naturally he'd be the one to find the courage, at this moment of despair, to try again. And I think it's the events of the earlier parts of the story that have helped Doyle trust him enough to follow.

Although, surprisingly, it's Doyle who speaks first. He tentatively asks if Bodie would like Doyle to come along. Even in the face of Bodie's cold detachment.

And I like how Bodie is brave enough, honest enough, to take back that quick and brutal rejection. It's in keeping with this smart, savvy, emotionally tough Bodie that Sebastian has created.

Maybe it's a matter of personal taste, but in this fandom I enjoy stories like this more than schmoopy stories where Bodie and Doyle just have to realize their love for each other and everything's fine. It's those stories that feel out-of-character to me.

Oh yes. Absolutely. But it has to be a believable and realistic toughness not the bullets-bounce-off-me brand.

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

I'll be the third voice, and kind of a middle ground concerning Sebastian. I carefully tread with this author. She writes beautifully, but I rarely have any desire to reread her stories. They just don't stick with me, make me "feel" or think. BUT before the author's many, many well deserved fans stomp on me, let me say that this one (so far, I haven't read all her stories) is my favourite. And this was a first time for me to read this one. It's one I would reread.

Excellent! Both in that it was a first time for you and that you enjoyed it.

And, I will say that while I am definitely in the Sebastian camp, not every one of her stories works as well for me. The Siren series is problematic for me, I don't understand or follow a lot of Wonderful Tonight -- although in both cases I do reread and enjoy them, which I guess is the ultimate test of whether a story works or doesn't? Assuming you're the re-reading kind.

I liked this a lot. I could see and hear the lads. I liked the angst that was kept in its place and not allowe to overrun the story. The way the story unfolded was excellent. I never felt the rush to hurry and read ahead (a sign I'm bored).

Right! She really did take time and there are all these wonderful vignettes -- the evening with the girls, the blow job in the alley, Doyle fumbling his way through the breakfast encounter with Fred. Wonderful stuff there and all giving such a strong sense of who these men are and what their lives are like and why they are so necessary to each other's survival.

I had absolutely no problem with her POV, something that often sends me right out of a story and means I don't finish. This story had a good mix. It was tender in parts, hard in parts, but altogether, it worked so well for me that when I hit the end, I was happy.

Great!

I had a moment's hesitation when they were separated with only a few paragraphs left, and I was kicking myself for not reading the end first, telling myself that this was the usual MO: another of those angsty separation stories that other people love and I avoid like the plague.

*g*

I was prepared to finish and be really irritated. It didn't happen! Thank God. There wasn't much to the reunion, but I admit, those simple few last words were like music. They said so much in just that simple exchange.

I agree. Now, personally, I've always get the itch to rework that last sentence (this is the problem with writers, isn't it?) but I have no better line in mind, and it is such a telling line:

He began to run.

So I give this story a huge thumbs up. Thanks, J, for the rec. I wouldn't have tried it right now if not for your putting it out there.

Thank you for reading it -- I'm delighted you enjoyed it.

You did a very clever DiaG story yourself, as I recall. "Fire and Ice." Was that it?

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

I love Sebastian’s work and I love this story but for some reason whenever I think of it I always associate it with depression rather than with the usual hefty dose of melancholy which is so often a part of her style (even with the more humourous stories where it's often a bitter-sweet kind of humour).

I agree that it is probably her darkest work. Darker than Velvet Underground, which always seems just a bit stagey and contrived to me (though such beautiful writing and imagery).

So I’ve been trying to work out *why* I remember this story in the way that I do and more so than her other stories. Maybe it’s the time of year (and that ominous choice of title): that bleak month when we’re all waiting to get Christmas over and done with;

HA! Or for the warmth and comforts and love of the season? I think you're right about the choice of title, though. November can still go either way. Into dead of winter or the brightness of the holidays. Now if she'd named it February...*g*

or the fact that much of the story takes place in a rundown hotel room and is slightly claustrophic (and yet they seem to find it cosy and can shut out the world but I don't see it that way); maybe there's too much emphasis (inevitable in a confined space?)

The pink cocoon! Yes. It's cozy and stifling at the same time. But that cocoon is forcing them to face things they might not confront if they were able to get away from each other.

on their - at times - self-destructive relationship? Maybe the backbiting isn't balanced enough with sweeter sentiments so that at times they just don't seem to be on the same wavelength? And when we get one of Sebastian’s trademark Doyle snaps: "Don't fuss, for chrissake", I'm thinking, yes, I *have* occasionally seen Doyle behave like this in episodes so I suppose it is canon, but I don’t know..... my overall view of Doyle vis a vis Bodie isn’t quite like that.

I think you're right. They're edgier -- the foundation is in canon, but this Doyle is more edgy. Not cruel. He lashes out but each time regrets it. He's very much off-balance, very much afraid that giving into what Bodie is offering will mean the loss of his own independence. He dwells on his age, his mortality -- winter is approaching and he's afraid to accept the cloak that Bodie offers.

Doyle burned, and yet shivered: newly fragile, to invite Bodie's love was surely to kill forever his chance of independence. He could just imagine Bodie, stepping in solicitous, pinning a cloak around his shoulders to protect him from the storm.


Maybe, it's as you say, that Bodie is more preoccupied with death than usual and that's not like our Bodie; maybe it’s the way Doyle rejects Bodie’s fussing - I don’t know. Maybe it’s the too realistic portrayal of much of poor London?

She captures wonderful snapshots of rundown London -- the little girls jumping rope, the seedy pub.

I think the following paragraph is typical of what I mean with the author’s deliberate use of certain words which seem to colour the whole passage and set the reader up for something very sad: e.g. *grimy* backstreets, ’frail’ (worn and old) pretty dresses, *un*painted swings, *cracked* concrete, gardenless houses backing into more of the same. I feel all the adjectives chosen are deliberately negative and sad and it’s all a bit poor and dismal. (Maybe it’s just my nostalgia showing for 70s London? Dunno.)

I think you're right. Outside of that cozy pink room -- which is only cozy because they're there together -- it's a sad and sordid world.

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

Other Sebastian stories can have their depressing elements but knowing that doesn’t seem to colour my overall view of them and I can return to them without a heavy heart, but this one I’m more wary of, more guarded with, and, as you've said, it's all a bit unsettling. But having said that, yes, providing I'm in a strong frame of mind, I'd much rather read a story about two complex, mature characters than something less challenging and unrealistic.

Me too.


And I love the way she just drops certain things into the story and brings the reader back to earth with a vengeance:

Doyle was not yet thirty-five years old.

Yes. That's a jolt. Doyle feels so old, he frets about the coming winter -- his coming winter. And he's not even forty. Not even thirty-five!

Anyway, sorry to ramble and I'm sure I've missed some points but I just wanted to point out that although I can and do love this story, for some reason I've always regarded it in a different way to other Sebastian stories. Thanks for the rec and review!

Thanks as always for your perceptive comments. Just out of curiosity, do you have a favorite Sebastian story? I think I'd probably pick The Homecoming if I had to choose just one. Although I love so many of her stories.

[firlefanzine.livejournal.com]

LOL! You really should become a slasher... :-) (didn't knew before that a 'slasher' is another word for 'critic'!)
No! Really! Your comments are sometimes better than the story itself! Very convincing! ;-)

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the rec!

To be true - I’m torn.

Yes it is ‘beautiful and unsettling’! I would even say beautiful and sombre.

I agree. It is a sombre piece.

Beautiful are such passages: “...he was dangerous, aggressive and chancy by nature, out on the edge just the way you had to be to be a leader in their underworld, not a victim. It was that face of Bodie Doyle was looking into now, the knife in his eyes.”

Hehe!! A leader in their underworld…. :-)

Some of her descriptions of them are unparalleled, I think.

But the main mood is depressive and always rejecting, and uncertain, never sure of nothing, fewest of Doyle’s feelings.

They are never really happy.

No, it's true. We don't see them simply and unqualifiedly happy -- although there may be a promise of that to come in the end.

And another bloody operation Susie. Cowley at his worst.

He's GOT to stop sniffing that roses and lavender!

And then the end…
Do I get it right? After that disaster they don’t see each other for three weeks???

That gives me pause too. They've both been in hospital -- and probably different wards since they've got totally different problems? But I take it to be that perhaps they've avoided each other, that being ill and injured gave them an excuse not to face each other. That neither was ready to confront the injured reality of the other or the future of their relationship?


I mean, it’s ok if the author is determined to avoid another ‘waking up in hospital and looking in the other man’s eyes and forgetting all problems’ story (well, I love that…). But is it likely that Doyle isn’t even interested in Bodie’s well-being? That he doesn’t want to know whether Bodie can ever use his hand again??? I can’t believe that!

I think I go with the idea that they've both been very ill, so they probably verified the most important point -- that they other still lived -- the first time they regained consciousness, and then just...didn't deal with it. Concentrated on getting well and didn't allow themselves to look further than that -- couldn't maybe? Because facing that it was all over might have made getting well pointless?

I don't know. Just tossing out ideas.

So… Really! I’m torn...

Well, the title is programme. The story is something to keep and feed any November depression...

But a positive ending, despite the rain and gloom. Christmas lights are twinkling -- or will be soon. Just a couple of little ones. *g*

I'm glad you read it, though!

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

No! Really! Your comments are sometimes better than the story itself! Very convincing! ;-)

I do love talking about writing and stories, that's true enough! *g*

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

Yes. THIS.

And this is what makes these such fascinating characters to write and read about. The complexities and contradictions. They are giggling boys and ruthless killers. They are moral men who will do immoral things. They tease each other and clown for each other and they lash out, even punch the other. Far more interesting (and realistic) I think.

To Sleep Perchance to Dream

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

We have a dream sequence in this story -- granted all DiaG stories seem to require a dream sequence, but I always think if you're going to have a dream sequence in a story, it needs to be there to tell us something that we can't get from the rest of the interaction, dialog and conscious reflections of the characters. There has to be some point to this glimpse into a character's subconscious.

I'm interested in what you might make of this particular dream sequence -- and whether it's telling us something we can't otherwise glean from the rest of the story?

Doyle twitched, and muttered, and dreamed.

A huge mirrored ballroom dazzled him, so that he could not quite see; he glided about among people whose faces he did not quite know. Confusion and a great weariness troubled him; just to lift one foot and put another down seemed like something tremendous. He was worrying, too; he was late for something important, he had to be somewhere, somewhere else, and how could he get there quickly if he was so weighted down?

He had a partner in his arms, light as down; in the mirrored wall he kept glimpsing the top of her head against his chest. She felt insubstantial, barely real at all and he had no idea who she was.

A tap on his shoulder made him jump. Turning, he saw Bodie there, large and vivid, but it was Bodie with a peculiar look in his eyes which made his heart hammer and his legs turn weak.

"May I have the pleasure?" Bodie asked in his deepest voice, and Doyle let go of his partner, never saw her again. He was enfolded into Bodie's arms and swept off; and he knew with a vast sense of relief that it was all right now: wherever he had to go Bodie would take him. And Bodie whispered into his ear with the subtlest of charm, "Come with me, Ray."

Doyle felt himself tremble, life impossibly sweetened: he felt himself hard and tight against Bodie and he knew he was going to have an orgasm.

"It's all right," Bodie murmured to him, very seriously, "No-one will care..."

[firlefanzine.livejournal.com]

I'm glad you read it, though!
I'm glad too!

But I'm not so sure about that 'positive ending'.
Nothing is clear with Cowley, nothing with another idea of living. But that could be all solved - but I'm not sure if the Bodie and Doyle from this story could manage their relationship!?
I don't mean that they are OOC - but they are further over the edge... - well you described it so nicely : "is that Doyle and Bodie have reached the November of their CI5 lives" . But it seems those Bodie and Doyle have reached the end of their strength too.
(Avoiding each other for three weeks... I really can't believe it...)

I just hope they see your twinkling Christmas lights... Sigh!

Re: To Sleep Perchance to Dream

[firlefanzine.livejournal.com]

Maybe his subconscious is more clever than he himself?

Re: To Sleep Perchance to Dream

[sc-fossil.livejournal.com]

Yeah, to me this is his realisation of exactly what he wants from Bodie, and who Bodie is to him beyond partner. It's the weight of the world lifted kind of dream that gives him hope.

Adding: I'm not bit into deep symbolism and tearing a dream, story, poem apart. I tend to believe in what I see is what I get, so I'm not going into some psychological examination of Doyle's inner child and how he was potty trained. *bg*

[sc-fossil.livejournal.com]

J said: I agree. Now, personally, I've always get the itch to rework that last sentence (this is the problem with writers, isn't it?) but I have no better line in mind, and it is such a telling line

See, I was okay with this ending. But I'm not a reader who needs, or a writer who does, spell out every single thing by The End. I like a happy ending, so I got that. I also like the ending settled, rather than ambiguous (generally, exceptions are out there, of course). To me, the end was settled with them making their decision to be together from that second onward. I don't need to see them having dinner or sex or even talking about what they'll do now, because I got everything here in those last words. My brain took me to a happy place, so I was satisfied by the end that all was well.

And J kindly said: You did a very clever DiaG story yourself, as I recall. "Fire and Ice." Was that it?

Thanks so much. I think every Pros writer has a DIAG (or a dozen) in them. That was my "kat was watching way too much Life on Mars" story! LOL! I enjoyed writing it and having Doyle be not quite sure if he's crazy or if he's just nuts.

[sc-fossil.livejournal.com]

Funny how I didn't feel this one was depressing. Yes, bad things happened. There was more betrayal and pain, but overall I didn't have that gut churning reaction I do with a lot of those dark stories. Don't know why, but I'll give the author credit for taking me on a hard journey without wallowing in it, and giving me a good read. I'd say this was dark, rather than depressing for me.

Re: To Sleep Perchance to Dream

[jgraeme2007.livejournal.com]

Love the icon -- all your icons are great.

Maybe his subconscious is more clever than he himself?

Yes, I think the dream is actually one of the most positive signs in the story. Because for all Doyle's confusion and anger, that dream is so sweet and simple. In the dream he faces what he wants and just...lets go.

The description of the mirror are interesting too.

Re: To Sleep Perchance to Dream

[firlefanzine.livejournal.com]

Thanks! In fact the icon is from Life On Mars. But it fits so nicely. ;-)

The mirror? Mirror is observation. But I think there were no hints that Doyle is afraid of the public when he should start a relationship with Bodie (among people whose faces he did not quite know). He's only afraid of his own feelings. Or am I wrong?
So I'm not sure about the mirror.

[kindkit.livejournal.com]

I don't know that I'd even call it toughness, although I agree that Bodie in particular has a certain resilience. But I think they're both pretty damaged, and what looks like toughness is often . . . scar tissue? Possibly a metaphor carried too far, but hopefully you see what I mean.