ci5hq | AUs in the Pros community--discussion

Entry tags:

discussion - various

AUs in the Pros community--discussion

Hi, all. You may have been reading the panel reports that I've been posting about CQ in my LJ and over on the CQ yahoo group as well. If not, go read 'em, and enjoy!

It occurred to me that I didn't have notes on a panel that I very much enjoyed---why do you think the Professionals has so many good AU stories---I think I was blasted on Sunday morning and had lost the will to write, hence no notes. Then I realized, there's no reason that discussion couldn't go on here, at

ci5hq.

gblvr got the ball rolling in the panel discussion, and I'll borrow the three things that I do remember from the panel to get things started.

1) If you look at the total number of stories archived at the Circuit and click the "only AU" stories option, you get about 7% of all the stories. So on the whole, there don't seem to be many AUs in the fandom.

2) Yet, if you ask somebody to rec in the Pros fandom, within the first few recs, they'll be saying, 'oh, but you need to read this AU.'

3) One comment that was offered by

flamingoslim at the con was that, back in the day, Pros picked up AUs that were scorned by the Starsky/Hutch fandom early on. As one of the oldest fandoms, she suggested, authors who felt closed out of one fandom moved over to another and went wild.

So, why the contradiction? Compared to other fandoms, Pros has very few AUs, but some are notably (and worthily) famous. And which AUs would you automatically rec to others? And what elements make for a successful AU, using Pros characters?

Threaded | Top-Level Comments Only

I'll come back with a list later; it's far too early for me to think of them.

Pros exists in a very set and defined universe. Their world is comparatively limited in relation to other fandoms. This can either hinder the AU as too far outside of the original universe and you might as well be writing original fiction, but it can also help the AU as there is so much that is unknown in the series and anything outside that set realm is a mild AU that still lets you explore. The characters are shaped by their unusual experiences and taking those away or changing them makes it difficult to explain and keep their personalities. You'd have to rework them to fit the new universe and often they are the same but with a different locale.

This is such an interesting topic and I'm going to go away and give it some more thought. In the meantime, I thought I'd muddy the waters a bit and slip in an observation which I've made and that is: I wonder why it is that I and many people I know *hated* the idea of AUs when they first began reading Pros and then ended up accepting and enjoying them to the extent that many AUs have become firm favourites e.g. Harlequin Airs (though if I remember correctly Bodie's in Ci5 so it's semi-AU); Cook and the Warehouseman; Suitable Gravity; The Secrets Beneath; Professional dreamer; Arabian Nights; A Birdwatchers Guide to Cornish Ghosts. When I first took a look at Pam Rose's Arabian Nights I couldn't accept the idea of the Doyle she'd created but much later, looking again, I read it, loved the whole story and have since read it about 3 more times and it's now one of my top favourites. Anyway, just thought I'd mention it......... what was the orignal question, again?

So, why the contradiction? Compared to other fandoms, Pros has very few AUs, but some are notably (and worthily) famous. And which AUs would you automatically rec to others? And what elements make for a successful AU, using Pros characters?

The Professionals is my first "slash," but I have read a lot of QAF fanfic (where the characters are gay and have relationships). Not only is the quality of TP fanfic much better, but I have also noticed there are not a lot of AU stories (which is fine with me, since I don't generally care for them). I thought the explanation seemed obvious. Unlike most TV shows that people are writing fanfic about, the world Bodie and Doyle live in is pretty exciting. Nobody needs to make up bad guys, dangerous situations, or near-fatal injuries, because all of that is canon. I haven't seen the show (only read recaps and manifestos about the guys), but it seems that there is are also a lot of other things that the fanfic writers have to work with that exist in canon - the idea that the partnership is "like a marriage," hints of diverse but interesting backgrounds for both guys, and a teasing, physically affectionate, almost flirtatious relationship between the two characters as played by Shaw and Collins. Not to mention a psychiatrist who delves into their psyches, interesting minor characters, undercover work, shoot-outs, kidnappings, etc. There is so much more to work with in the CI5 universe than in a show grounded in the day-to-day lives of characters like on QAF, where the most dramatic events were a bashing in the last episode of season 1, and a bombing near the end of the last season, both to reflect the very real homophobia that exists in the USA, and thus really more of an important political/social statement than a development of the characters (which is obvious by how the aftermath of both incidents, particularly the bashing, were so poorly dealt with).

As I said, I don't really care much for AUs, but when they are done well, they are brilliant. My favorite, no contest, is "Professional Dreamer" by Pamela Rose. It's humorous, clever and charming, it brilliantly incorporates canon events, and the author nails the characters of both men in a different world (two, actually, since the canon characters are reflected in Bodie's books, and in Ray's confused mind, but we also see the characters in their AU counterparts of Phillip and Ray Dibble).

I would rec Lois Welling's "Whisper of a Kill" as my other number one AU, but I don't really consider it an AU. Although Bodie comes to CI5 at a different time, the story remains firmly entrenched in the CI5 world, with all the usual players. Does that make it AU? Regardless, it's a brilliant fic, and the opening scenes are some of my favorite in all the fanfic I've read.

The other AUs I like - well written stories like "Harlequin Airs" - may move to an alterate universe in some ways, but they adhere to the basic premise of the show, which is that Bodie and Doyle are undercover agents in elite law enforcement agencies, and are fighing the bad guys. Why improve on a winning formula?

My mate

krisserci5 and I were discussing this panel the other day. My first question was, "What constitutes an AU?" Does a story set in the CI5 universe but only one of the lads is in CI5 qualify? Heat Trace would be an example of this (Bodie is in CI5 but Doyle never is). I was surprised at the low figure cited, but answer to the question may have something to do with it.

I agree with

blkandwhtcat's last line. This is the type of AU that I enjoy; thus, my fave AU is "Suitable Gravity."

The questions around AUs in Pros are very, very interesting (and I'll come back to them), but I have a problem with your reasoning here:

If you look at the total number of stories archived at the Circuit and click the "only AU" stories option, you get about 7% of all the stories. So on the whole, there don't seem to be many AUs in the fandom.

First, you only looked at those stories that are found in the Circuit Archive. While the "only AU" search option returns 135 stories out of the 1695 total stories archive (8%), it is NOT a sound assumption to then claim that "So on the whole, there don't seem to be many AUs in the fandom."

There are many, many stories that are not yet found on the The Circuit Archive, and many that will (sadly) likely never be archived for a variety of reasons. Some stories are found only on Proslib, where authors have refused permission to archive online. Many, many other stories are found only in zines, not in Proslib or the two archives. The Circuit Archive represents a significant chunk of Pros fan fiction, but you cannot claim it is representative. You cannot take The Circuit Archive (marvellous as it is!) and use it as a stand-in for the entire Pros ouvre.

If you look at Pen's Pros AU list at The Hatstand Archive, you will find over 450 stories listed; again, many are not found on Proslib or The Circuit Archive or The Hatstand Archive. There's no way to reliably give a figure for what percentage of total Pros stories that AU list represents.

I doubt that the number of all existing Pros stories is actually known, though you might eventually get closer to a figure by going back and cross-referencing all the various story lists available (Sharon's, Lily's, Pen's, early Pros paper lending library, etc.) over the years against Proslib and the two main archives. That would be a monumental task, however.

My gut feeling (notoriously unscientific *g*) is that AUs could represent anywhere from 5% to 33% of Pros stories in numbers of stories. But it's not just the number of stories (even if it were known - which it is not) that need to be considered. It's th story length and impact/influence of the stories on other works and the fandom as a whole that must be examined.

And I must run, but I want to comment more so will hope to return later today.

No, you're not muddying the waters. That's in fact what inspired the panel: how someone who was new to the fandom was introduced to it by being rec'd AUs, wasn't keen to read them, and ended up loving a lot of them. It happened to me as well.

You've named several of my favorite AUs, and I think that Harlequin Airs works particularly well, like Suitable Gravity, because there's the edge of danger in the story: the enemies, yes, but also the environment itself (trapeze act, no-oxygen surrounding). The grittiness of London, with its inherent dangers is something we tend not to focus on in the show, but it's that built-in threat that makes those two AUs my favorites as well.

Precisely. At bottom, in Suitable Gravity, they are still competent, equals, and capable of surviving great danger. It's one of my faves too.

I'm not sure what you do with a half-in, half-out scenario, like Whisper of a Kill. It feels like an AU some of the time, since Bodie is being put in situations we don't expect, the setting is Africa for most of the story, and his mindset as an assassin (ex-assassin) isn't precisely what we know and love about him from the show. I guess I'd call it half an AU, since Doyle and Cowley seem to come straight from central casting.

Great points. Just to clarify, the 7% figure wasn't mine, but was used to kick off the panel, so I was quoting.

You're right to note that the Circuit doesn't have everything and probably never will. I never expected (coming from two purely online fandoms) to start buying zines, and now I've got something like 80+ because that's the only way to get the stories within them. So you're right, the fannish creativity certainly exceeds one archive's ability to contain it.

I think your point--that it's not the number but the impact/influence of the stories on other works and the fandom as a whole--is absolutely right. I remain amazed at how central the AUs are in Pros fandom. At CQ, we briefly discussed whether the fantastic artwork connected with some of them (HAirs, Whisper of a Kill) might have something to do with the popularity, but you have only to look at Suitable Gravity (no art, just plain story, yet cited repeatedly as a favorite) to see that that can't be the only answer. It's the quality of the storywriting, above all else, that gets me. These are incredibly well-written, creative, impressive works with stories that grab us by the throats and won't let go.

I'd add that the ones I like best (like Suitable Gravity, HAirs) also put the Lads into a dangerous setting on a regular basis--trapeze act, tigers, no-oxygen, plus the bad guys--such that the adrenaline rush is central and repeated. It isn't just the slash, it's the context for the story. Relatively tame AUs do a lot less for me. But YMMV.

I wonder why it is that I and many people I know *hated* the idea of AUs when they first began reading Pros and then ended up accepting and enjoying them to the extent that many AUs have become firm favourites. :jumps up and down and points to self!: Yup, that's a pretty fair description of me. AUs will always be a hard sell, but I'm amazed how flexible I have become. I wish I had a coherent, articulate reason as to why I have come to accept -nay, LOVE - some AU fics in Pros, but I'm afraid I don't. On my firm favourites list are Ellis Ward's 'And Memories Die I and II', and her 'Legacy of Temptation'.(But not HA because the setting just didn't grab me). And Pamela Rose's 'Professional Dreamer', but not Arabian Nights ( setting again).

Perhaps then, the answer to why I've been converted to the idea of AUs in Pros, is in the ones that don't work for me - if the characters are recognisable but the *setting* just doesn't grab me, inspire me, etc, then it's doubtful I'll make it to the end, no matter how much I love the writer.

I had a think about this in another context a while back, where I was looking at AUs in my main fandom of The Sentinel (which has a lot of AUs).

In comparison to some fandoms,we don't know a great deal about B and D's backstories, and so maybe the setting becomes more important as a way of defining the characters. In a way, I sometimes feel as if London is a character in Pros along with the people.

I've written madly divergent from canon AUs for TS, but whenever I get occasional (but unacted on) plot bunnies for Pros, they're always set in canon. Go figure. Canon and the mood of canon helps create the fanon. Bloody obvious, but every fandom has its own dynamic, and Pros is gritty. I have more trouble with sweetness and light depictions of the guys than I do with AUs.

Lastly, my favourite AU is Helen Raven's 'The Cook and the Warehouseman'

Well, I love AUs in general so I'm happy to try any in Pros. I thought at first I wouldn't like seeing Bodie and Doyle outside of the CI5 universe, but I've been happily proven wrong. My main criteria in any AU (or AR) is that I need to see the canon character in the AU character. I love Bodie and Doyle. To read a story where they exist in name only wouldn't work for me. I'd say for me I need 75 percent canon in a good AU. Otherwise, the character ends up being an OC for me. But that's going to be very different for every reader and writer out there. We all have our limits of tolerance and/or acceptance. +g+

My favs (that I can remember right now!) have been: Professional Dreamer, Master of the Revels, Harlequin Airs, and Arabian Nights. And I have read a few that I disliked immediately, so I just stopped reading. I also read Whisper of a Kill, which I loved, but I really can't say it's AU. More AR, maybe? It is hard to classify. But the zine is gorgeous, so who cares? LOL!

These are incredibly well-written, creative, impressive works with stories that grab us by the throats and won't let go.

I think this is a good point and maybe AUs simply offer more scope to writers in the sense that they can place the characters of Bodie & Doyle in almost any situation as long as they retain enough basic Ci5 characteristics to make them recognisable. Mind you, having said that, I'm sure there are AUs which I've grown to love where the original Ci5 B or D hardly exist, and again, I'm thinking of a story like Arabian Nights where the young Doyle is very different to his Ci5 persona. In fact, it often seems to be the case that writers are tempted to bend and manipulate the character of Doyle more than Bodie for some reason.... again, in Arabian Nights, where Bodie is depicted as the enigmatic desert prince, I can still see enough of the original Bodie to make me love the story.

I think the point you make about the world of Ci5 vs. QAF is a good one: that there's only so much going on in the QAF world which is of interest whereas canon Pros has much more potential for exciting scenarios (because that world *is* more exciting} so there really isn't the same need for AUs (even though I like them).

When it comes to the importance and influence of AUs in Pros, the zine novels are particularly illuminating. Out of roughly 120 zine novels that have been published in Pros, at least half are AUs. That's a very high percentage. When you look at the circuit novels that aren't on that list, you also find a high proportion of AUs; Meg Lewtan's (hysterical) historicals are a good example.

Why are so many Pros novel's AUs? Possibilities abound. And that (if you'll pardon the pun *g*), is actually the explanation to which I lean. Writing a novel within the constraints of canon can be done - and it has been done well in Pros, several times, to my great delight - but there is something particularly freeing about AUs that allows writers to create novel-length stories.

Longer stories also often (not always, and individual reader preference clearly comes into play) linger in readers' memories longer than short stories simply because the reader is immersed in the world for a longer time as they read. The length of a novel also means that there are potentially more points of engagement with various readers. And even those who don't necessarily like zine novel AUs will often admire the craft that goes into the world building. Add in the art that often accompanies zine novels, and that's another reason that zine novels get discussed and recommended and remembered. AUs offer incredible scope for artists, and certainly much of the fantasy AU artwork is quite memorable.

I think there is also something to be said about the thrill of the hunt for OOP zines and the allure of the (hopefully, temporarily) unattainable zine. The fact that so many Pros fen are willing to put in the time and energy and money to track down zines lends an air of desirability to the zines. So even fen who might not actually like the zine novel AU when or if they read it may think of the story as something special.

The strong opinions - both pro and con - about AUs in general work accentuate the sphere of influence that can be attributed to AUs in Pros fandom. AUs don't have to be universally loved to have influence.

For example, The Hunting series by Jane draws mixed reactions: it has ardent supporters and equally vocal opponents. Yet, The Hunting has had a demonstrable influence on other Pros writers and stories. An early Pros zine novels (published in 1986), The Hunting certainly proved that there was an audience for fantasy AUs in Pros. Many of those interested in writing AUs (fantasy or other flavors) found a home at Nut Hatch Collective press which was run by Jane. Nut Hatch was very AU-friendly, though it also routinely published non-AU stories. There were other, later, presses that were AU friendly, such as OTP with the Other Times and Places zine series (all AU), but Nut Hatch was a particularly prolific and early press.

I'd argue that the very existence of Nut Hatch press increased the amount of AUs in Pros because having a welcoming venue for a particular type of story (be it an AU or another genre) is often the tipping point in what story a fan fiction writer will work on. This was particularly important pre-Internet, when distribution of Pros stories was limited to zine and letterzine presses and the Circuit. Today there are many more distribution avenues, and zines are no longer a dominant distribution path.

Continued due to LJ length contraints -

Pros has a rich tradition of debate by fiction and response stories and unauthorized sequels. When a story (AU or otherwise) generates controversy, Pros writers have often responded. One of the best examples is Consequences an early partner rape story) by Tarot which drew 15+ direct response stories, many explicitly "fix-its". Some deliberately played off the title (e.g. "Inconsequence", "Inescapable Consequences") to signal that their story was written in direct response. Response stories ranged from serious rebuttal to full-on parody ("Consequences: The Musical Version").

The AU story Poison Apples by Pam Rose has two direct response sequels with a "slash - no, het - no, slash" back and forth which is also explicitly referenced in the titles. Apples for the Lady by T. D. Murphy deliberately took out the slash and made it a het story, and Antidote to Apples by Kris Brown put the slash back in! Pam's story was a slash fusion with the movie "The Wicker Man".

Another direct response AU story was "Ghostly Shadowy Ghost Shadow" by O Yardley (Proslib & the archives). It was a response to two stories by Anne Carr (Ghost of a Shadow, Shadow of a Ghost - found on Proslib CD & at the archives) and also took some swipes at various cat, were-cats, and teddy bear stories. *g* O Yardley's author notes include this tidbit: (*NOTE*: There can be no polite disclaimer with this story since the author is offensive purely by intent.)

There are also many stories that represent a more general response to a particular trope or genre; for example, there were a number of CI5-based, canon-heavy stories that were written, at least in part, to counter the presence of AUs, particularly fantasy AUs. I'd also suggest that The Inappropriate Elf Challenge 2003 (huge multi-fandom challenge with 75 stories, 65 writers, 55 fandoms - http://www.trickster.org/speranza/cesper/Elves.html) was, at least in part, a reaction to The Hunting and the idea of elves in a fandom as reality based and gritty as Pros. Interestingly, there was only one Pros entry; perhaps because most thought Pros already had their share of elves?

I do think that the AU-reality based split is one of the deepest divides in Pros, reflecting both a real difference amongst certain types of fen and also the sometimes contradictory impulses contained within individual fen who are both attracted to the gritty world of Pros canon, yet want it tempered. For some fen, that tempering means a complete change of setting and a softer version of our beloved Lads and Cowley. Others, like

faramir_boromir above, want their AUs to contain the the adrenaline rush of Pros.

Others, like faramir_boromir above, want their AUs to contain the the adrenaline rush of Pros.

I agree. (in general - there are always exceptions) I need adventure and excitement along with the love.

Interesting that Pam Rose, who wrote several AU's for 'zines (Poison Apples, Arabian Nights and Professional Dreamer) also had some brilliant canon setting long stories on the circuit - Forget That I Remember and Dream That I Forget, Where the Worms Are, Double Vision. I'd love to know her reason for switching to AU for the 'zines.

Like you, I also came from QAF (and before that LOTR). The fanfic in Pros is--to my untrained eye--so much better in quality than in QAF that there's practically no comparison. I have a theory about that, that 30 years ago, the training in writing essays and polished prose was at a much higher level by secondary school age, simply because the smart women of the 40s and 50s had three career choices: nurse, teacher, or librarian. The ones who picked teacher trained a generation of folks who had good writing habits beaten into their skulls, or else. The bar for good writing got set very very high with the early fandoms, and has remained that way. But that's for a different discussion.

I think the AU possibilities in QAF are simply much slimmer. Brian in high school? Justin older and richer than Brian? Mpreg? Beyond domestic fic or reversing their ages, or giving Justin an incurable disease or blindness, there's just not the range of AUs that you find in Pros. Perhaps that's because the show QAF was all about celebrating the luv, and the relationships that did exist. The soap operatic qualities limit the genre, ultimately. Whereas in Pros, the slash is read both with and against the grain, and the violent background setting makes for that many more possibilities.

I'm amazed that you've gone so far having seen no episodes of Pros. That's incredible.

Pam liked to write for her friends. I know that she wrote Arabian Nights because a friend wanted a romance set in Arabia. Linda, who loved to read bodice-rippers, specifically requested a seduction scene on top of a horse. It took a long time for Pam to write this story, so long that in the end she felt she owed Linda a novel rather than a short story.

As for favorite AU's - one of the best, Rediscovered In A Graveyard, alternates between present-day CI5 and the French Revolution. HG did a brilliant job of juxtaposing the two and incorporating the storylines into a seamless whole. I also loved her Master of the Revels, which had a great influence on other writers, and Rainbow Chasers, which was her answer to all those Doyle-as-hooker stories. Courtney Gray also wrote several great AU's, including Night Moves, which was her her response to Doyle always being portrayed as the rent-boy. She wrote Torch Song after seeing the movie, Gilda, and did a wonderful job there too. Both Courtney and HG were also moved by Martin Shaw's performance in Cassidy to write wonderful AU's, Griffin and Hunted by Devils.

Another writer who wrote great AU's was Kitty Fisher. Paper Flowers was an interesting take on Doyle as hooker and cashiered cop, with Bodie in his traditional CI5 agent role. Kitty also wrote some great historicals, namely: The Alchemist's Measure and sequel. Unfortunately, she never got around to finishing the intended trilogy. Her Pleasure Proven was also excellent and left me wanting more. So many great AU's, so little time to write comments on all of them.

I think it was me who said I generally dislike AUs (and from your descriptions of the zines, I will NEVER buy any. I dislike almost all of the AUs you mention).

In order to appeal to me personally, an AU has to keep the characters "in character," so they are recognizable to me as my personal image of Bodie and Doyle. Even if the AU is otherwise very well written and/or creative, I won't like it if it's just a story about characters who have the physical attributes and names of Bodie and Doyle. For example, I didn't think Arabian Nights was anything other than the typical "bodice ripper" (as you called it) about the sheik who kidnaps and rapes the at-first-reluctant-but-then-sex-slut white chick, which is such a cliche. Where are Bodie and Doyle in that scenario? Nowhere that I can see, unless the sheik is a terrorist, the kidnapped girl is a political prisoner, and they come in to rescue her. Then it might be a B/D I can believe in an AU.

I just don't want to read about Bodie and Doyle as Mr. Bennett and Mr. Darcy, or CinderellaBoy and his Prince, or Sleeping Beauty, or whatever. To me, the best stories - whether relying mostly on canon or AU - keep Bodie and Doyle in character, fighting the bad guys, facing near-death situations, struggling to accept the unsavory aspects of their job, and struggling to find a balance betweeen their personal relationship and the objectivity and emotional detachment needed on the job. Once an author strays from that basic premise, then I'm probably not going to be interested in the story. But when the author keeps that premise and the personal quirks of the characters, and takes it to an AU, the result can be excellent, which is why I really like stories like Professional Dreamer, Whisper of a Kill (even if not really AU), Suitable Gravity, Blue Figurine, and a few others.

That's just personal preference, of course. I have a very low tolerance for sappiness, and it seems that when the guys are in canon situations, they tend to be written tougher and more masculine. I can't stand stories that turn the guys into weepy girly-men, and that doesn't happen as often in stories where they're working for CI5 (although unfortunately, it still does!).

You've mentioned your theory about the superiority of Pros fanfic before, and it's interesting. I've noticed that a lot of the fic I like was written in the 1990s, and even back in the 1980s, mostly first appearing in the zines and later transcribed by fans and posted online (with the author's permission).

Compared to the QAF fanfic, I have assumed, perhaps incorrectly, the reason the Pros fic is so superior is that most of the classic Pros fanfic was written by older, educated people from the UK (and thus often better educated than people in the USA). It certainly seems that way from reading the comments on stories - you don't see the silly "squeeing" that you see on the QAF sites, but thoughtful, well-written commentary.

Although most of the best QAF writers appear to be women ranging from 30 to 60, I think the crap is being churned out by people who are fairly young, even in high school. They can't write because they don't know anything about life, and know nothing about gay men except what they saw on QAF, which is pretty limited, highly dramatized info. (That's like using a soap opera romance as a template for a heterosexual relationship). I think a lot of people assume the QAF fandom is older, but someone conducted an LJ poll a year of so ago, and the overwhelmingly majority were those in the 18 to 24 age group, and several of the comments indicated that there should have been one for below 18 (but there wasn't, obviously, because minors aren't supposed to be members of groups that post sexually explicit stories). So, in QAF fic, it's a case of very young people writing about a world they know nothing about, and about issues with which they have no experience or in depth knowledge. And I think a lot of them have probably never had a relationship or sex, either, which makes the stories even more unrealistic. I get the impression that the Pros fans are older and better educated.

I'm amazed that you've gone so far having seen no episodes of Pros. That's incredible

Well, I have looked at many, many pictures of the guys from the show. I've read short and long descriptions of the characters. I've read recaps and discussions of many of the key episodes. And I've read a lot of the classic fanfic stories that people say captures the characters of the guys.

I suppose that not having actually seen the show, my opinions on fanfic have very limited value, but I have picked up a particular impression of the characters, and I see my impression played out over and over again in the fanfic, so it must be accurate to some degree.

I think the next question is, what country do you live in--I now feel it is my duty to get you a set of the episodes. But that depends on what region of the world you live in, and maybe whether you have a region-free DVD player.

Ah! A much more nuanced explanation. I must have missed that poll. You're correct---anyone who thought queer life was what they saw on QAF really hasn't seen much of life at first hand.

As you say, there seems to be less squee going on with Pros...but I believe a lot of the squee ends up aimed at the artwork associated with the zines and stories, which effectively are stand-ins for Collins and Shaw. So maybe there is as much squee, but it comes out in a different fashion. There's certainly plenty of squee for Shaw, if the comms about his current work are to be believed. There just haven't been too many recent pictures of Collins, squee-worthy or otherwise.

And I think a lot of them have probably never had a relationship or sex, either, which makes the stories even more unrealistic. I get the impression that the Pros fans are older and better educated.
Well, my guess (after seeing who turned up at Close Quarters) is that most folks there are old enough to have experienced real sex with a living person. That means the sex they write (or edit, or vid) is, perhaps, less likely to be a theoretical experience. There were certainly plenty of college educated folks in that room, if not beyond college--so you may be on to something here. I'll have to ponder this some more.

Actually, they're both undercover: Doyle's CI5, though thinking about quitting, and Bodie's MI6, working for Willis and doesn't care for it, though you don't learn that until the end.

It's funny you would pick Arabian Nights as an example. I stayed away from it for a long time, simply because I expected the 'bodice ripper' effect to overcome my liking of Bodie and Doyle in the text (almost wrote 'bodie ripper'--talk about Freudian slip!). So I only read that story this year.

I don't care for AN as much as other AUs that have been mentioned here, in part because the Doyle I love doesn't really show up until the end. [Having said that, I enjoyed it a lot and plan to re-read it when time permits. Maybe it will grow on me, the second time around.] The fellow named Doyle in the story at the end has much more backbone, is much more of Bodie's equal in every respect, unlike the fellow at the beginning of the story, who is such an innocent, so unworldly and inexperienced. Like you, I find Bodie close enough that I can enjoy the story for him, but you raise an interesting point--

Why is it that in AUs, Doyle's character is the one that seems to suffer the most, by being taken OOC? Is it the merc background that makes Bodie's character less flexible?

Threaded | Top-Level Comments Only

Page 1 of 3

AUs in the Pros community--discussion

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

Pros AU

no subject

no subject

Re: Pros AU

no subject

no subject

no subject

Re: Pros AU

no subject

Pros AUs - Novels

Pros AUs - Novels, part 2

Re: Pros AUs - Novels, part 2

no subject

Re: Pros AUs - Novels, part 2

Re: Pros AUs - Novels, part 2

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

Re: Pros AU