and much of what you call "essence" is no more unique to Doyle and Bodie than any attractive romantic male lead in any work of M/M fiction Hmmn - I think you're vastly understating, or perhaps misunderstanding my summation of their characters, for a start. Perhaps I've not phrased it very well, but Bodie and Doyle, to me, are not at all just about looks and mannerisms/quirks. Their unique combinations of those things are a part of what make them individuals, yes, but there is more to it than that, and that was what I was trying to get at with my original question.
this audience for AU... she's going into it with certain understanding and expectation of what these two types will be like Yes, this is exactly my point. There is something about Bodie and Doyle, when written "truly" that most Pros fans will recognise, whether or not they're given the same names or physical settings. So what is that something?! It sounds like, for you, Bodie/Doyle = CI5 and so you'll never recognise them outside of that setting. For me there's far more to them!
Except that I think there is for you too, really - cos otherwise why say Professional Dreamer being a clever exception? So what is it about the characters in Professional Dreamer that make them Bodie and Doyle to you, even though they're emphatically supposed not to be!
I've read original fiction which was allegedly based on B/D and recognised that it was, recognised their exact characters. Conversely, when I read SotK, I didn't see them, even though I was told who they were supposed to be. That is their essence - that particular mixture of characteristics that distinguishes those two stories... and it's different for everyone!
So - what if I turn around what you've said then - that they are professionals, the lethal best at what they do, focused, deadly, elite team -- ultimately loyal to no one but each other - to me this could describe almost any cop/buddy/fandom pairing, that's the ultimate, generic series characterisation. So you would feel just the same if, say Mattheson and King (from Purging) were the heroes of the show? Or McCabe and Lucas? Or, as you say, Starsky and Hutch? It was, of course, a deliberate choice to call the show "The Professionals", and Clemens is actually quoted as having said that the show could have been about any CI5 team, it didn't have to be Bodie and Doyle at all - but given the option of replacing MS/LC when their contracts finally expired, ITV decided that no other pairing would work the same magic, and ended the series once and for all.
I totally agree with them, in fact. What you describe above is, to me, only a part of what makes up Bodie and Doyle, and I'd be far less interested in any other pairing that was put into the show - in fact I'd go so far as to say I'd have been unlikely to watch it. For me Bodie/Doyle was the show, and it's their personalities and relationship that make it what I love. No one else could replace them.
So because it's their personalities and relationship, to me, that equals them then yes, I can set those personalities and relationships anywhere else, and enjoy seeing how they face the challenges of that setting.
And I'm curious: if Bodie and Doyle are described in completely different physical terms I also think that, actually, our physical traits do go a long way to making up who we are as well - changing appearance affects us psychologically, and affects people's reactions to us, so yeah, for me they have to be described physically as Bodie/Doyle (LC/MS). If they didn't look the way they did, then there would be an intrinsic part of their personality to match that wasn't B/D...
no subject
and much of what you call "essence" is no more unique to Doyle and Bodie than any attractive romantic male lead in any work of M/M fiction
Hmmn - I think you're vastly understating, or perhaps misunderstanding my summation of their characters, for a start. Perhaps I've not phrased it very well, but Bodie and Doyle, to me, are not at all just about looks and mannerisms/quirks. Their unique combinations of those things are a part of what make them individuals, yes, but there is more to it than that, and that was what I was trying to get at with my original question.
this audience for AU... she's going into it with certain understanding and expectation of what these two types will be like
Yes, this is exactly my point. There is something about Bodie and Doyle, when written "truly" that most Pros fans will recognise, whether or not they're given the same names or physical settings. So what is that something?! It sounds like, for you, Bodie/Doyle = CI5 and so you'll never recognise them outside of that setting. For me there's far more to them!
Except that I think there is for you too, really - cos otherwise why say Professional Dreamer being a clever exception? So what is it about the characters in Professional Dreamer that make them Bodie and Doyle to you, even though they're emphatically supposed not to be!
I've read original fiction which was allegedly based on B/D and recognised that it was, recognised their exact characters. Conversely, when I read SotK, I didn't see them, even though I was told who they were supposed to be. That is their essence - that particular mixture of characteristics that distinguishes those two stories... and it's different for everyone!
So - what if I turn around what you've said then - that they are professionals, the lethal best at what they do, focused, deadly, elite team -- ultimately loyal to no one but each other - to me this could describe almost any cop/buddy/fandom pairing, that's the ultimate, generic series characterisation. So you would feel just the same if, say Mattheson and King (from Purging) were the heroes of the show? Or McCabe and Lucas? Or, as you say, Starsky and Hutch? It was, of course, a deliberate choice to call the show "The Professionals", and Clemens is actually quoted as having said that the show could have been about any CI5 team, it didn't have to be Bodie and Doyle at all - but given the option of replacing MS/LC when their contracts finally expired, ITV decided that no other pairing would work the same magic, and ended the series once and for all.
I totally agree with them, in fact. What you describe above is, to me, only a part of what makes up Bodie and Doyle, and I'd be far less interested in any other pairing that was put into the show - in fact I'd go so far as to say I'd have been unlikely to watch it. For me Bodie/Doyle was the show, and it's their personalities and relationship that make it what I love. No one else could replace them.
So because it's their personalities and relationship, to me, that equals them then yes, I can set those personalities and relationships anywhere else, and enjoy seeing how they face the challenges of that setting.
And I'm curious: if Bodie and Doyle are described in completely different physical terms
I also think that, actually, our physical traits do go a long way to making up who we are as well - changing appearance affects us psychologically, and affects people's reactions to us, so yeah, for me they have to be described physically as Bodie/Doyle (LC/MS). If they didn't look the way they did, then there would be an intrinsic part of their personality to match that wasn't B/D...
See also, above!