ci5hq | Before you read a Prosfic...

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Before you read a Prosfic...

Somewhere along the way I've picked up the impression that Pros fans tend to be divided most strongly into either slash, gen or het (or various combinations thereof) readers, and that it is on this basis first that we decide whether or not to read a particular Prosfic story. Following an interesting discussion a few weeks ago about labels/categories/warnings etc on Prosfic, Circuit Archive is experimenting with including other information in their lj (and presumably other) updates, and this has got me thinking about it all again - in a rather needs-first-coffee-of-the-morning kind of way!

Basically, I know that I hate all warnings etc on a Prosfic story that I'm about to read, except that I'd like to know whether it's slash, gen or het, because I adore slash, I'll read gen if there's some reason to (or a chance of adding my own subtext!) and I don't want to touch het with a bargepole... a very long bargepole! During the discussion, I came across the idea that most people would view a label of slash, het or gen (or the story's pairings, which actually is a much smarter way of telling us whether it's slash, het or gen!) as the same kind of "spoiler" as, say a deathfic warning, which completely surprised me, took me aback, and got me thinking even more... *g*

And then I remembered that lj lets you do those poll-thingies, and wondered if I might try one of those... though I'd like to hear what people think as well as just seeing numbers, so please do comment as well! So - what kind of, if any, information do you look for before you read a Pros story? (And I'm not really going for the to-warn-about-deathfic/rape/non-consensual debate here, although I've included it in my question and I'm curious about numbers there too, it's more the broader sense of the question - and do we care about age ratings? Are there other things people consider that I've never even thought of?!) So, without further ado:

[Poll #1043269]
I've never tried doing a poll before, so here's hoping it works - do let me know if you have problems... Oh, it looks like you have to vote first, and hit submit, and then comment afterwards - you can't comment and vote at the same time (I just tried it...)! And non-lj members can't vote (says lj, not us), but you can still comment!

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Basically the only warning I really want is major character death... or more to the point, a death story. Not because I don't like reading them but because there's times and places for such fics and sometimes I need to read them.

Actually, thinking about it, what I want is search terms. I want to be able to search for/ exclude specific things, rather than have warnings. So, for example, I could search for death fics but not be told it was BDSM and non-con.... or whatever.

*is kinda cloudy on the whole reality thing atm*

Good on you that you can manage to be this coherent and interesting pre-morning-coffee. 'M very impressed..*g*

When I came over to Pros from S/H, I liked the fact that as a fandom it did not seem to be into labelling stories ad nauseum. ( I like that in the

discoveredinalj challenges, most of us include the disclaimers, info, etc under the cut. I love that I have no idea what kind of story I am about to read there.)

I tend to go by author, rather than things like death fic/BDSM, etc. Rebel is a good example. The gal does the smuttiest slash lemons you can find, then writes a kind of het story (the Elvis fic crossover, for example, Postscript in S/H), and does gen ones, too. She even - god love her - writes brilliant kid fic! It's Rebel, so I'll read it all regardless.

To warn or not to warn, that's been a huge issue in a lot of fandoms and Pros is no different. Some want no warnings, some want every warning possible. Me, I absolutely need to know if it's a deathfic, because I avoid those completely. I'd also like to know if it's AU, bdsm or any other kink, het sex, and genderfuck. Other than that, I'm pretty good. Those warnings save me a lot of time. I like slash, but I can also read gen, so that part doesn't much matter to me.

I certainly want to know if the story is slash, gen or het, and whilst the vast majority of Pros stories are B/D, I also like this spelt out too, i.e. I want the pairing listed. And in these days when sadly the / sign is being used by some people for a Gen story i.e. you have Genre: Gen. Pairing: X/Y, or indeed the & is being used for slash stories *bangs head* I actually think that 'slash' 'gen' 'het' AND the pairing are necessary. I haven't seen this pop up yet in Pros, but as it's popping up in other fandoms (including older fandoms, like Pros) I think we have to accept that one day someone will come along and do it.

Otherwise I'm a 'want warning for certain things' gal, especially 'major character death'. I will read death stories, but I want to know that I'm going to before I read it. I would also like to be warned for major, heavy kinks, BDSM, blood-play, that kind of thing. But if I could only pick one warning it would be death.

Actually the really big thing I want warning for no one warns for *sigh* as it's the only thing that stops me cold and makes me leave the story never to return. Some things, if I don't like it, I can skip, this I can't. I have to stop reading, and it's not even a major thing, no pain is usually involved, but . . . And I've even stopped dead in a story written by my favourite Pros author when I came across the scene. It's food/sex play, i.e. taking chocolate sauce or whatever into the bedroom and smearing it over one another *shudders* But that's a 'Nikki-quirk' and I don't seriously expect people to warn for it. I would guess that a lot of fen have their own personal 'quirk'.

But death, definitely, for warnings.

Genre:
Pairing:
Warnings: e.g. death

And I've also seen people who say that labelling for 'slash' is the same as warning for 'death', i.e. knowing anything destroys the story.

For what it's worth (and ETA I'm rambling more than I meant to):

Slash/het/gen - yes; I'm one of those who particularly wants to know if a story is het (i.e. ends up het - not a problem if there is some het in there, given the canon!) because although I'm sure there are probably some excellent het stories out there they are not for me.
Pairings can occasionally be confusing - there's a world of difference, obviously, between a story that goes from B/D to a het ending and one that goes from het or /OC to B/D. This is probably silly, but I'd almost like to see the end-pairing listed last or shown differently. Hmm, I think this makes me ridiculously picky .... but I suppose I want to put the time and emotional commitment into a story that will leave me feeling right (not necessarily candyfloss-happy - grit is welcome - but in the right universe if that makes sense).

Deathfic - yes, warning please! Once upon a time long long ago (BP - Before Pros in my personal history) I found myself reading the death of my then favourite character and felt physically sick, then completely miserable for the rest of the day, and then kept flashing back to the awful death at random intervals for a long time afterwards. Am I borderline certifiable? Very probably. Deathfics scoop my innards out and mince them; sufficient unto RL is the evil thereof.

Age ratings - not bothered either way; not really relevant to my own preferences, though of course many people may like to have them.

Everything else, such as bdsm, non-con, the dreaded mpreg etc. - not bothered; these are aspects of a story that I can take or not depending on the writing, and for which I don't feel bad about dropping a story if it's going to places where I prefer not to venture (teddy-bears, talking mice, ye olde tymes .... everyone has their own personal no-go areas. And of course different writers can do very different things even with these).

I appreciate that many people prefer not to be spoiled/have their stories spoiled, so any set-up that allows readers to choose whether or not to see warnings or any labels is up there with sliced bread.

Many thanks for the hard work that brings us the stories! ::drinks health of archivist and writers:: (in healthy and refreshing mate tea, as it 'appens, it being a bit early in the day for anything stronger)

I definitely want to know if it's slash, gen or het cause I won't touch het with a long bargepole either ;) I'd also like to have warning if it's either death fic or rape because I won't read either. Otherwise I like surprises and need no further warnings.

Well, I may have no time right now for anything (I hate this time of year)...but a poll? Well, yes, I can do a poll! I do like to know if it's slash/het/gen. But I suppose the one I really want to know is the pairing. B/C is a different fandom from B/D, as far as I'm concerned. I wouldn't want anything more explicit than that. (I do think that it's the responsibility of the reader to figure out if she wants to read a story or not, and she should not rely on other people labeling stories for her particular anti-kinks.)

Labels, after all--even the basic ones we're talking here--are not fullproof in any way. How do you label a story, for instance, that starts with B&D together but ends with Bodie marrying a woman? B/D; B/original character; slash and het? What would be the natural assumption of Pros fen, seeing that label? Probably that it would end with B/D together. So there would be wails of discontent. *g* What's a label-maker supposed to do?

Hmm. Interesting question. I would like to know if a fic is a death fic (I will read them, but I need to be in the particular mood). And I guess I'd like to know the pairing (because, while I enjoy gen, I have no interest in het or B/Cowley, B/Murphy, etc.). But that's it. I don't really want to know more than that. Like Callisto, all rules go out the window for me with certain writers.

Oh yeah, also like to know the pairing as I definitely do not need Cowley having sex with anybody *shudder* Sorry but *uck* I do like the man - as long as he keeps his clothes on.

I submitted my answer (b) and then thought "but..." *g*
There are times I want to search for certain types of stories, for bdsm or Bodie/Doyle/Murphy for example. When this happens, what I'm looking for is simply information, not "warnings" - luckily the Circuit Archive has that search option, although I have found some odd things in the search results from time to time!

I'm with you on not wanting to know in advance if a story is a death fic. I'll read anything, pretty much, including het (although I then have to read some slash afterwards, just to get the vibe back). So I suppose no warnings would be my preference. Happy for them to be hidden somewhere for other people, though.

While I'd like to know up front if the story is slash, het or gen, I'd also like to know if it is a major character death fic or if there is heavy BDSM. While an occasional death story certainly has a place on my reading list, I'd like to choose when I read it. I strongly dislike heavy BDSM -- it just doesn't fit with my view of the lads and leaves a slimy residue in my brain. Often I know when to be careful through experience with the author, but with all the wonderful new folks now writing, I'd like some warning if I'm about to hit something distressing.

The only warnings I care about are whether it is a death fic (which I avoid depending on who dies - and I will peek at the ending to find out!) and the pairing i.e. B/OFC or B/OMC automatically tells me enough to avoid the story. I am only interested in if the fic ends up with B/D. If there is no pairing then I would assume it's gen. Does that make sense?

The only thing I really need/want to know is it's slash or not, above or below NC17 *G*
I do read Gen (and consider it different from Het, basically in that Het inplies graphic het sex, whereas Gen fades to black) and Het, however. For Pros, that's all I really want, anything else is a damn spoiler in my eyes, and that's why I love the Roses & Lavender zines, because they have the spoilers, I mean, headers and warnings in the back and upside-down.

:)

I guess I assume that the fiction at the Circuit Archive will be either slash or pre-slash. There is a separate archive for het stories isn’t there (batcave something – heh, you can see how often I’m there eh?), so I didn’t think I would find het stories at the Circuit. But I did stumble onto one a while back, which confused the heck out of me! And the Hatstand is pure slash – isn’t it? At least, that is how I tend to divide the archives in my head… But if the Circuit also has het stories, then yes, perhaps that would be useful to know. Maybe only if they are pure het stories, I mean, there are plenty of slash ones where either B or D has a girl and then slowly realises where their true affections lie… These (to me) don’t need a het label.

As for in general, the only ‘warnings’ (I put it like that, as I don’t use them as ‘warnings’, more to decide the flavour of fic to read!) I use are NC17 etc, and these tell me roughly the content.

I would go with putting all other detail tucked away, with a ‘click here for warnings’ type comment, and then that can have BDSM, Death etc in it. Like if you search via the Full Search on Circuit, you can tick what to avoid. As although Death stories can be harsh as hell, for me, I might always avoid them if they are always warned against, and in that case I wouldn’t have read some heart-breakingly good fic. But am not too fussed, I know most people would prefer to know that stuff up front.

What I would probably like is impossible, but I always thought it would be great if there was a way to put in some search terms such as childhood, sea, ship, Africa, artist etc for when you know you have read something, but cannot for the life of you remember the author or title, only sketchy bits of the story.

This is interesting - I asked questions like these when I was overhauling the archive, but that was years ago now, and now there are different people responding, so it's helpful to see these results. They're also making me rethink how I'm going to post the Circuit Archive announcements, because I realize, again, that there's no way to satisfy everyone...the one thing that never changes is that everyone wants something a little different, at least in their ideal world, and everyone sees things a little differently (e.g., to some people gen/het/slash doesn't matter while "death" matters a whole bunch; to others slash vs. het is everything - that sort of thing).

Anyway, I'm not going to respond to the poll myself - just going to observe as archivist *g* - but I do have one point I want to make, which is that there is a reason for including "ratings" that has nothing to do with the child safety/warnings-type rationale. Ratings, at least on the Circuit Archive, are intended to be a rough indication of the level of explicitness of any sex in the story (that's the only purpose I've chosen to use them for). Some readers might prefer to avoid the explicit stuff, and the ratings enable them to do so. But just as important, sometimes people specifically want to read more explicit stories - I know I sometimes do! Sometimes I don't want to read fade-to-black - sometimes I'm in the mood to read stories that take me all the way behind the bedroom doors - and I imagine I'm not the only one! *g* This is a way for readers looking for this type of story to narrow down their choices.

So ratings aren't really meant to be warnings (and aren't analagous to the main warning on the front page of the archive) - instead they're another piece of information about story content that readers can use (if they want - the ratings only appear on a "full" search) to help them decide which stories are most likely to appeal to them (or not), or just to know what they're getting into.

Excellent poll and discussion - very thought provoking. I've been bumping up against this question a little while posting fic for the Pros Newsletter, and it's made me very aware of my own lack of answers.

Is it okay to ask a question? I should probably head off into metafandom and do research, but asking here first - when deciding if something is slash, gen, or het, what are the criteria? Do the labels indicate a physical relationship, an emotional relationship, or how is it defined - in your minds? Or at the Circuit - I've always thought that if there is a pairing listed that it refers to a physical pairing, not an emotional one? :is obviously confused!:

I personally love being able to exercise options. I like to be able to pick and chose whether or not to know. I usually search for the category of slash, or b/d, as the primary category, and then carve it down from there. I love being able to utilize the search features at the Circuit - to be able to find *only* nc-17, for example - or the excellent categorization lists at the Hatstand - to be able to find a listing of stories based on episodes, or stories in a series, etc.

Other "labels" which I personally really value as options are "AU" and "cross-over" - both of which I think are essential in finding what you want or don't want to read.

I need to know that it's Bodie and Doyle I'm reading about, and I do love a good summary. Other than that I'm very happy with minimal information.

I'm reminded when I was reading "Heat Trace" a story I absolutely adore. But when I came to the part in which Bodie is responsible for the death of Murphy, I was suddenly hyperventilating a bit und I didn't continue to read until I knew Bodie wasn't a serial killer (what was not totally unlikely at that point). There I really wished there had been some sort of warning about that. Not necessarily an exact information about the plot but some sort of warning like "disturbing content" or something like that. I would rate the Heat Trace plot as major character death, other people probably wouldn't.
I do love dark and dramatic contend in fiction extremely (here and with crime fiction, too) but there's probably a thin line, were it could be too strong for my sensitive little nature. :) If there's a warning of sorts, I don't stumble into something too strong unprepared. As is said before there are times and places for certain types of fiction.
Also I think that gene/slash, AU or pairing information, hints about death fics and also ratings are a good and necessary thing. It doesn't necessarily mean that I avoid a certain type of fiction, I'm more faithful to an author than to anything else; if I like her writing, I often read everything that's on the market. Even within these information there's enough room for the story to surprise and I adore authors who do a wide range of different moods as myrebelcat. You'll never know what you'll get next.

I come from a heavily warned fandom (The Sentinel), where everything is warned. If a writer doesn't put "proper" warnings on an archived story, they will hear it many times over. So... I warn in Sentinel about everything. In Pros, I do what I do with a zine, where there are almost no warnings: I read the last page. I know many people find that horrible, but for me, unless it's a 'B/D alive and happy ending', I don't want to read it. And it needs to be slash for me. So I don't "need" warnings, but I appreciate them. I'm a darned good skimmer.

What writers have taken to doing in Sentinel, since the warning "I can't warn or it will give away the plot" didn't go over very well, is to put any relevant warnings, including major death, torture, etc, after The End. Then a reader has the choice to go to the end and read the warnings, or to start from "It was a dark and stormy night..." and enjoy the story with being spoiled.

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And just to add, to me, a warning for 'character death' equals to saying that it was the butler *G*

In other fandoms (SPN, for example ;) I got used to it, and I can see the need as well, because of a slightly bigger cast, a different approach, what have you...but for Pros...I love having a new story in my hands, and being taken away with it, to discover it all. Perhaps it's a question of having been mentored in Pros, instead of browsing on my own. Possibly.

:)

The only thing I want to know about a story is whether it is slash, gen or het as I don't read het. Actually, I run like hell when I see het =D
Death stories, dark, angs... all the rest is fair play, and I don't want to be spoilered.

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